Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,118

    Copeland Access in Danger

    From the Defiant MTB Facebook group

    News and Events – couchichingconserv.ca

    Tuesday December 3rd 2013 meeting at horseshoe resort in the alpine room social 630-700 meeting 7-8 questions 8-9 this meeting is regarding the future of copeland forest and riding hiking and other activity in the forest also council may restrict or remove mountain biking if you can make it please attend this is being sent out as a mass text please forward to anyone else interested in riding in copeland and interest in copeland forest in general

    http://www.couchichingconserv.ca/wp-...PP-A-and-B.pdf

  2. #2
    sock puppet
    Reputation: osokolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    From the Defiant MTB Facebook group

    News and Events – couchichingconserv.ca

    Tuesday December 3rd 2013 meeting at horseshoe resort in the alpine room social 630-700 meeting 7-8 questions 8-9 this meeting is regarding the future of copeland forest and riding hiking and other activity in the forest also council may restrict or remove mountain biking if you can make it please attend this is being sent out as a mass text please forward to anyone else interested in riding in copeland and interest in copeland forest in general

    http://www.couchichingconserv.ca/wp-...PP-A-and-B.pdf
    SCMBC is the club that represents the interests of the MTB community in Simcoe County. Few members of this club will be at the meeting - and will do their best to preserve our privilege to ride our bikes at Copeland Forest. I am sure that Satan2 will update us on all the details from the meeting.

    Remember the thread about Simcoe County Mountain Bike Club?

    By joining the club - we are making our collective voice stronger as SCMBC will represent larger base of users who can not be ignored.

    I've done it a while ago. You?

    It's only $40 for annual membership and it includes insurance for riding SCMBC legally built trails.

    Equivalent to the cost of a case of beer.

    Thanks for posting Endura...
    Signature

  3. #3
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,064
    To be honest, I don't think they represent the interests of all the mountain bike community in Simcoe County, but rather a segment of it. Therefore I choose not to join. I do not agree with the model of access they and Simcoe County parks and rec are using. Other people from the mountain bike community hold the same view as myself and seek a more diverse and inclusive process. Though I wish them the best of luck in their endeavours and anyone who joins their club.

    From reviewing the reports/maps of Copeland forest the area does have a problem. But I also feel there is a need for education of trail options/uses for all parties before a meaningful sustainable solution is found regarding these trails.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 12-06-2013 at 02:16 AM.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    88
    Thank you.

  5. #5
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,118
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    To be honest, I don't think they represent the interests of all the mountain bike community in Simcoe County, but rather a segment of it. Therefore I chose not to join. I do not agree with the model of access they and Simcoe County parks and rec are using. Other people from the mountain bike community hold the same view as myself and seek a more diverse and inclusive process. Though I wish them the best of luck in their endeavours and anyone who joins their club.

    From reviewing the reports/maps of Copeland forest the area does have a problem. But I also feel there is a need for education of trail options/uses for all parties before a meaningful sustainable solution is found regarding these trails.
    Biggest issue in this fiasco is simply communication has not been good. As seen both here and on. Facebook. It doesn't help the situation as well when a lot of it comes across as even if you don't live here and may ride once buy a membership. If not stay out. Brings up memories of past threads.

    Reality is that method of interaction has been played out.

  6. #6
    sock puppet
    Reputation: osokolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,524

    Copeland Access in Danger

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Biggest issue in this fiasco is simply communication has not been good. As seen both here and on. Facebook. It doesn't help the situation as well when a lot of it comes across as even if you don't live here and may ride once buy a membership. If not stay out. Brings up memories of past threads.

    Reality is that method of interaction has been played out.
    I dont disagree with your assessment that the communication could have been better. But should communication be the reason to put down way more important achievements and efforts that the SCMBC is volunteering day in and day out.

    It is easy to ***** and complain, but who has put forward a better plan??? If you dont have a constructive idea or plan that can improve the existing plan - *****ing is lame.

    The ONLY WAY to protect our (MTB) interests on SC property was exactly what SCMBC did. We are not the only club that is using this approach. It has been in place out west for a while now.

    Complaints about lack of day passes or "i want to see the trail before i commit to membership" are really lame. Lets be practical here. If one wants to go and ride the trails in order to weigh the decision to purchase the membership - who is to stop them??? One time visit for this reason is not poaching in true meaning of that definition. Those who regularly ride the trail system, without the membership will be poachers. The decision to buy membership is moral decision, more than anything else. Tourism will not suffer from "membership required" clause on SC property. Quite to the contrary: because of the "membership required" clause , we can continue to build fantastic singletrack LEGALLY which will attract more visitors to the area (MTB enthusiast). Because of the "membership required" our LEGALLY built trails will be protected from the damage that other user groups (equestrian) could inflict upon them (like in Dufferin forest). Because of the "membership required" MTB community will have equal representation at the user group forums and will be able to maintain our strong presence and ensure that we exist as a group in the future.

    What is not to like about it?

    $40 price of admission? I dont see any other concern.

    Yes - there are organizational challenges and opportunities to improve communication and representation. But for crying out loud lets not lose the sight of the way more important goal:legally built singletrack on a huge and stunningly beautiful peace of land, supported by the county, equal representation together with other user groups, our own legal organization that is taking the stewardship of the MTB portion upon themselves...

    Everything else will settle down over time. Lets not throw sticks in the wheels now during the most critical period of the club. We can not afford fights among ourselves when there is much more that we all have in common.

    If $40 is too much to pay to enjoy one of the most exciting MTB regions that i have seen - that is fine. We dont need them then. But please dont trashtalk the efforts of the group who is volunteering their time to build the very foundation of the sport that we all passionately love. As simple as that.

    Quite honestly, i did not pay $40 so that i can ride SC trails, although i fully intend to use all the privileges of my membership. My $40 were a small token of appreciation for the effort that the SCMBC is investing in the future of our sport.

    For me it was a MORAL decision.
    Signature

  7. #7
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,118
    Uncle Oggie, nothing to do with the clubs effort but how this has all played out. And after look at the OFSC website while looking up where a track went I found a week ago. Came upon this little tid bit,


    Buy Where You Ride! To ensure that your permit money goes to support the OFSC district whose trails you ride most, it is important to choose the club to support at time of purchase.
    Now you mention out west.... Well, last I checked a membership with WORCA allowed one to ride multiple times a year in Squamish which is SORCA's turf. And vice versa. No restrictions as far as I know. But if you look at it it is more like the OFSC method...pay in the area you ride most. But then keep in mind BC and Alberta does not have the land access circus that is Ontario.

  8. #8
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,064
    I wish we would use the models they use out west... for example:

    MTBco | Mountain Bikers of the Central Okanagan

    awesome trails, great vibe, progressive, jumps and stunts for all levels.



    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Uncle Oggie, nothing to do with the clubs effort but how this has all played out. And after look at the OFSC website while looking up where a track went I found a week ago. Came upon this little tid bit,



    Now you mention out west.... Well, last I checked a membership with WORCA allowed one to ride multiple times a year in Squamish which is SORCA's turf. And vice versa. No restrictions as far as I know. But if you look at it it is more like the OFSC method...pay in the area you ride most. But then keep in mind BC and Alberta does not have the land access circus that is Ontario.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  9. #9
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,118
    What?? What?

    Did Singlesprocket just agree with me?

    Mister Moderator I think someone's account has been hacked.

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    I wish we would use the models they use out west... for example:

    MTBco | Mountain Bikers of the Central Okanagan

    awesome trails, great vibe, progressive, jumps and stunts for all levels.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    454
    Any word on how this meeting went? After everything i"ve read about this property it would be a shame to see it restricted unduly.

    Re the debate about the $40 membership, who here factors their travel costs in cents/km for their biking activities? I never paid attention to it until one day I did, and the results were not much fun. A membership can well be seen as a moral decision, I might see it as having a political dimension too. Votes are cheap, memberships are comparatively cheap, but I'd say memberships typically have value in excess of their cost in the bigger picture.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,560
    I continue to find it humorous that many with bikes that are north of $2K complain about having to pay to ride them anywhere they want. Paying is perfectly fine with me being that someone, somewhere has put time in to either build, maintain, manage, or control the use of the land we're riding on. I'll leave it at that!
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  12. #12
    Ms. Monster
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,764
    I agree with you 100%. Even a few of our local builders in Christie won't join the Hamilton Cycling Club. Now, they've totally put in the sweat equity, but they don't seem to fully grasp that they wouldn't have the opportunity to build there without the efforts and backing of the club. It's weird. (And for them it would be just $25!)

    I wonder if the reactions to Copeland aren't so much that people mind paying to ride. Lots of people pay at Hardwood, Hilton, Kelso, Albion, Christie etc. But in all those cases, if you're taking a trip up to ride just once, you aren't expected to pay the full fee that locals pay to ride all the time (a season's pass) - there is the option to pay a day fee. I bet most wouldn't object to slipping $5 into a box at the trailhead. $40 is still not a crazy amount of money, but expecting people to pay the same for a single visit as for a full year of daily riding comes across as exclusive and I think that's what people are reacting to.

    Hopefully in a couple of years, the club can find a workable system for day-use fees. There have also been moves to allow more inter-club co-operation on such matters through both IMBA and the OCA. Another route might be to push your home club to negotiate reciprocal access with the Simcoe Club. To me, it's still great news that the locals have come together to advocate and work to legally build and maintain such great trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    I continue to find it humorous that many with bikes that are north of $2K complain about having to pay to ride them anywhere they want. Paying is perfectly fine with me being that someone, somewhere has put time in to either build, maintain, manage, or control the use of the land we're riding on. I'll leave it at that!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ToneyRiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    392

    Regional Mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    I continue to find it humorous that many with bikes that are north of $2K complain about having to pay to ride them anywhere they want. Paying is perfectly fine with me being that someone, somewhere has put time in to either build, maintain, manage, or control the use of the land we're riding on. I'll leave it at that!
    To me and many others, it is not cost but rather the regional mentality. As a business owner I see the implications of the $40 fee affecting people coming to the area to ride. The problem also is not the $ but the clear and simple fact that a new and dangerous trend could start by this type of action that could be felt throughout Ontario and perhaps even the rest of Canada
    www.mtbiking.ca
    Your Key To The Epic Ride!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Complaints about lack of day passes or "i want to see the trail before i commit to membership" are really lame. Lets be practical here. If one wants to go and ride the trails in order to weigh the decision to purchase the membership - who is to stop them??? One time visit for this reason is not poaching in true meaning of that definition. Those who regularly ride the trail system, without the membership will be poachers. The decision to buy membership is moral decision, more than anything else. Tourism will not suffer from "membership required" clause on SC property. Quite to the contrary: because of the "membership required" clause , we can continue to build fantastic singletrack LEGALLY which will attract more visitors to the area (MTB enthusiast). Because of the "membership required" our LEGALLY built trails will be protected from the damage that other user groups (equestrian) could inflict upon them (like in Dufferin forest). Because of the "membership required" MTB community will have equal representation at the user group forums and will be able to maintain our strong presence and ensure that we exist as a group in the future.

    What is not to like about it?

    $40 price of admission? I dont see any other concern.
    Can someone clarify for me. Is being a member of a club mandatory to ride the public forests in Simcoe County now?

    Out west here it's not mandatory to a member of any club to ride any trail. The trails are on public land. Membership of a trail association helps support the association that is fighting for trail access for any and everyone. The NSMBA has over 2000 supporting members, but only approx 350 paid members.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    I agree with you 100%. Even a few of our local builders in Christie won't join the Hamilton Cycling Club. Now, they've totally put in the sweat equity, but they don't seem to fully grasp that they wouldn't have the opportunity to build there without the efforts and backing of the club. It's weird. (And for them it would be just $25!)

    I wonder if the reactions to Copeland aren't so much that people mind paying to ride. Lots of people pay at Hardwood, Hilton, Kelso, Albion, Christie etc. But in all those cases, if you're taking a trip up to ride just once, you aren't expected to pay the full fee that locals pay to ride all the time (a season's pass) - there is the option to pay a day fee. I bet most wouldn't object to slipping $5 into a box at the trailhead. $40 is still not a crazy amount of money, but expecting people to pay the same for a single visit as for a full year of daily riding comes across as exclusive and I think that's what people are reacting to.

    Hopefully in a couple of years, the club can find a workable system for day-use fees. There have also been moves to allow more inter-club co-operation on such matters through both IMBA and the OCA. Another route might be to push your home club to negotiate reciprocal access with the Simcoe Club. To me, it's still great news that the locals have come together to advocate and work to legally build and maintain such great trails.
    Just to clarify the 40$ SCMBC proposed(not a done deal) fee isn't applicable to copeland forest. Copeland is a whole other ball of wax, the conservancy is pretty dead set against any current club sitting on the committee or taking stewardship of the trails. Nothing with copeland is going to be fast, it took 3 years and a hefty trillium grant to write that 20 page report. Which could get thrown into a garbage can. With so many stakeholders and user groups it will be a long drawn out process before any trail stewardship stuff will happen.

  16. #16
    sock puppet
    Reputation: osokolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,524

    Copeland Access in Danger

    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    Can someone clarify for me. Is being a member of a club mandatory to ride the public forests in Simcoe County now?

    Out west here it's not mandatory to a member of any club to ride any trail. The trails are on public land. Membership of a trail association helps support the association that is fighting for trail access for any and everyone. The NSMBA has over 2000 supporting members, but only approx 350 paid members.
    SC trail system sprawls across different land. Private, crown (public) and county.

    Riding the crown land is free (Copeland Forest is crown land - therefore free).

    In order for SCMBC to continue legally building trails on County land - there must be a membership - in order to satisfy the condition by the land owner - for third party insurance.

    If there is no building new singletrack - the club could have opted out of the membership. But that means no new trails.

    Majority of the membership supported the club to approach the county to enter a legal user group level agreement that would guarantee MTB user group rights and privileges. This way our trails are protected from other user groups (equestrian ie) and we can continue to build trails legally. This way the legal concern on part of the County (Kolapore law suit by Leone) is resolved.

    There is no enforcement of the membership on the trails. Hence the decision to join the club is moral, more than anything and includes appreciation for the work of the few who volunteer their time to build great singletrack. It also establishes the club as a protector of MTB user group rights and privileges.

    The club is not exclusive. I live in Toronto. Tourists can and will ride these trails as before. I am sure that the club will have he logistics for day passes some time in the future. But lets face it - voluntary payment system doesnt work. Look at Albion Hills. Riders go out of their ways not to pay admission fee.

    In he end - this is all about $40 membership fee - $40 that we burn without thinking on unnecessary things that end up on the landfill.
    Signature

  17. #17
    Bored
    Reputation: bigwheelboy_490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,967
    I think some people choose not to join cycling clubs simply because the politics and personal agendas can be rather off putting.
    MTBR is serious stuff.
    You never get better until you get out of your comfort zone.

  18. #18
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,064
    of course i agree with you enduramil, you made a logical and informed statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    What?? What?

    Did Singlesprocket just agree with me?

    Mister Moderator I think someone's account has been hacked.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  19. #19
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,064
    if there is no enforcement on the trails (no wavier signed) then how will the exclusive liability insurance stand up to a litigation incident?

    i wouldn't want to be the one holding the bag. it's better for the county to do that since they have a retained legal department and funds. in the end they will be drawn into litigation anyway. this is why i shake my head at the stewardship route followed by sc. it is also part of the problem here in ontario, that there is no unified approach regarding this policy in the many regions/municipalities.

    to clarify also, you are not guaranteeing any rights to the community, that is misleading. you are being granted specific privileges to your club only for a set period of time as stated in the contract/agreement among other things. the only thing you are guaranteeing is your clubs agenda/policy.

    i would not get to hung up on the $40, that is not the issue here. you have to listen what people are saying. people don't want to join based on principals/needs. that does not mean they don't want to contribute, nor does it mean they are not part of the community. i think clubs should listen very carefully to the reason why people don't want to join rather then brush it off as a monetary excuse...




    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    SC trail system sprawls across different land. Private, crown (public) and county.

    Riding the crown land is free (Copeland Forest is crown land - therefore free).

    In order for SCMBC to continue legally building trails on County land - there must be a membership - in order to satisfy the condition by the land owner - for third party insurance.

    If there is no building new singletrack - the club could have opted out of the membership. But that means no new trails.

    Majority of the membership supported the club to approach the county to enter a legal user group level agreement that would guarantee MTB user group rights and privileges. This way our trails are protected from other user groups (equestrian ie) and we can continue to build trails legally. This way the legal concern on part of the County (Kolapore law suit by Leone) is resolved.

    There is no enforcement of the membership on the trails. Hence the decision to join the club is moral, more than anything and includes appreciation for the work of the few who volunteer their time to build great singletrack. It also establishes the club as a protector of MTB user group rights and privileges.

    The club is not exclusive. I live in Toronto. Tourists can and will ride these trails as before. I am sure that the club will have he logistics for day passes some time in the future. But lets face it - voluntary payment system doesnt work. Look at Albion Hills. Riders go out of their ways not to pay admission fee.

    In he end - this is all about $40 membership fee - $40 that we burn without thinking on unnecessary things that end up on the landfill.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 12-06-2013 at 07:19 AM.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  20. #20
    sock puppet
    Reputation: osokolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,524
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    if there is no enforcement on the trails (no wavier signed) then how will the exclusive liability insurance stand up to a litigation incident?

    i wouldn't want to be the one holding the bag. it's better for the county to do that since they have a retained legal department and funds. in the end they will be drawn into litigation anyway. this is why i shake my head at the stewardship route followed by sc. it is also part of the problem here in ontario, that there is no unified approach regarding this policy in the many regions/municipalities.
    This agreement has not been executed yet. SCMBC executive got the mandate from the membership to negotiate with the county and try to meet county's requirements when it comes to continuation of legally building trails on county land, as well as having them protected from other user groups that may damage them unintentionally. Membership gave the executive mandate to require membership fees, if necessary to meet county's requirements. Part of the membership fees will go towards third party insurance. Part will go towards remunerating private land owners who would in turn allow building interconnects on their private property. The rest would go towards purchasing tools to build trails. When the total fee is $40 - it quickly becomes obvious that the money will be spent on insurance and private land remunerations (where necessary), mostly. if the county is happy with this agreement, which does not include enforcement - why would we complain. it will still allow one-off rides - to "see what one is getting for their membership fee" plus one-off tourists that come to the area. those that use the trails on regular basis - will have an easy moral decision to make.


    to clarify also, you are not guaranteeing any rights to the community, that is misleading. you are being granted specific privileges to your club only for a set period of time as stated in the contract/agreement among other things. the only thing you are guaranteeing is your clubs agenda/policy.
    that is correct. however, there are no guarantees to any segment of the MTB community right now. Some rights are better than none. In this case, our right to use our built single track would be exclusive, which would protect it from damage. Just this right is already a huge step forward, compared to existing situation. Any other segment of MTB community in the region or across the province is encouraged to get involved and have their voice heard.

    i would not get to hung up on the $40, that is not the issue here. you have to listen what people are saying. people don't want to join based on principals/needs. that does not mean they don't want to contribute, nor does it mean they are not part of the community. i think clubs should listen very carefully to the reason why people don't want to join rather then brush it off as a monetary excuse...
    that is your opinion and i do somewhat agree with some points. of course that the club should listen to what people are saying. i have already stated that the organization is far from perfect right now and there is a lot of room for improvement. however, the positives still significantly outweigh the negatives right now, with the good prospect of widening the gap. between waiting for unified approach (regionally or provincially or nationally) and spending years doing nothing waiting for this approach to be developed - which is going to happen NEVER - as you should know, it is better to do the best under the circumstances. yes, there are personalities involved. yes, there is some alienation due to personal issues. yes, the communication could have been better. but this is all easy to complain about from the couch and doing NOTHING.

    as i said before - we should not lose the sight of the ultimate goal - more single track, more riders of all kinds, more opportunities, more voice for the sport/hobby. now that we made the most difficult first step - instead of throwing stick in wheels in motion - lets be constructive and start helping improve the system.

    that is why i think it is mostly $40, because $40 is NOTHING in exchange for opportunity to change the system for the better.

    i don't pay my $40 for the membership. i pay it as i believe that the idea is GOOD and to show that i support the movement. the real work starts now.

    by the way, i don't know what happened to you, but i welcome the change. i may even remove you from my ignore list for the time being.
    Signature

  21. #21
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    I agree with you 100%. Even a few of our local builders in Christie won't join the Hamilton Cycling Club. Now, they've totally put in the sweat equity, but they don't seem to fully grasp that they wouldn't have the opportunity to build there without the efforts and backing of the club. It's weird. (And for them it would be just $25!)

    I wonder if the reactions to Copeland aren't so much that people mind paying to ride. Lots of people pay at Hardwood, Hilton, Kelso, Albion, Christie etc. But in all those cases, if you're taking a trip up to ride just once, you aren't expected to pay the full fee that locals pay to ride all the time (a season's pass) - there is the option to pay a day fee. I bet most wouldn't object to slipping $5 into a box at the trailhead. $40 is still not a crazy amount of money, but expecting people to pay the same for a single visit as for a full year of daily riding comes across as exclusive and I think that's what people are reacting to.

    Hopefully in a couple of years, the club can find a workable system for day-use fees. There have also been moves to allow more inter-club co-operation on such matters through both IMBA and the OCA. Another route might be to push your home club to negotiate reciprocal access with the Simcoe Club. To me, it's still great news that the locals have come together to advocate and work to legally build and maintain such great trails.
    What I was thinking.

    The trails built and maintained by MTB Kingston which anyone here has been on racing a Substance Projects event. Are all on private land and to access on a regular basis one must be a member. If you are only here for the weekend the only requirements are sign a waiver and must ride with a club member. Other then that no restrictions.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: secret agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    602
    I paid my money, but I do not like how this issue is being presented by SCMBC. There was not enough emphasis on explaining what they are doing for the MTB community and too much on "you need a membership or can't ride". I have been involved in a bit of building in the past but completely stayed out of the political side. It is a nightmare and I appreciate the work anyone puts into dealing with the various land owners, government and private groups. It is time-consuming, frustrating work that needs to be done. I was approached to join the Caledon Cycling Club a while back and to donate to their trail building efforts. I asked where the trails where and I wanted to see what they were doing, but I was given some line and basically it came down to pay and you will see. This had that kind of flavour to it, but I took Oggie at his word that this was on the up and up. Not sure how much I will be riding there, but I hope to receive some maps at some point. I just see it as helping out the biking community. I think the best method is the pay as you go, but that is not possible or practical. I find it hard to believe that people would avoid paying to use Hilton Falls, Kelso or Albion. I even pay to ride the Agreement Forest by parking at Hilton and riding through there in the summer or when there is access. I think BucKwallow is a bargain for the excellent trail system. I think SCMBC should have just asked for support for trail building and emphasized all they are doing and the bonus for joining is the insurance. You either help or not and all the other stuff is really not here or there assuming that what is said is being done is being done.
    Burnt Norton

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,649
    It seems that this is a completely different model than what we are doing here in the west with trail organizations.

    The land manager owns the trails, they own the liability. We the trail organizing have an agreement with the land managers to maintain the trails to an agreed upon standard. The trail organization carries insurance that covers the volunteers while working on the trails.

    Riders do not need to be a member of anything to enjoy the trails.

    Membership is not mandatory to volunteer to work with the trail organization on the trails.

    Funds are raised either by membership or donation to cover the costs of insurance.

    We would rather see people get involved to maintain the trails than worry about being paid members. Their labour is more valuable than their dollars. Once they get more involved with issued at hand eventually they'll become paid members.

  24. #24
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,064
    that is the best model, land manager owns the land, land manager owns the liability as you say...


    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    It seems that this is a completely different model than what we are doing here in the west with trail organizations.

    The land manager owns the trails, they own the liability. We the trail organizing have an agreement with the land managers to maintain the trails to an agreed upon standard. The trail organization carries insurance that covers the volunteers while working on the trails.

    Riders do not need to be a member of anything to enjoy the trails.

    Membership is not mandatory to volunteer to work with the trail organization on the trails.

    Funds are raised either by membership or donation to cover the costs of insurance.

    We would rather see people get involved to maintain the trails than worry about being paid members. Their labour is more valuable than their dollars. Once they get more involved with issued at hand eventually they'll become paid members.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    that is the best model, land manager owns the land, land manager owns the liability as you say...
    Do you have a link to read up more on what the SC partnership is?

    Also curious to hear who they consulted with. Did IMBA Canada support this?

    How much private land trails are there?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Access Restrictions Due to Fire Danger
    By RidinLou in forum New Mexico
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-24-2013, 07:51 PM
  2. Copeland Forest Stewardship info
    By swabag in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-13-2012, 06:59 AM
  3. Take Action: Copeland Forest Riders Meeting Oct. 23
    By Mudhead in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-25-2011, 12:04 PM
  4. Copeland Forest Stewardship
    By swabag in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-19-2011, 04:12 PM
  5. Copeland Forest
    By Chad-WL in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-03-2011, 09:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •