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Albion Hills conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

4K views 53 replies 23 participants last post by  singlesprocket 
#1 ·
I would like to announce that the Albion Hills conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee has been created and that I have a chair on it. As the TORBA Humber Watershed North Director I look forward to everyone’s comments and input about the Albion Hills trail system. Also think about what kind of trails you would like to ride (flow, xc, dj, pump track, nature, etc.) and what changes/accommodations you would like to be done. I really value your input and will champion your requests.
 
#4 ·
Congratulations, SS. ANd thank you for walking the walk by getting involved.

Frankly, I look forward to YOUR ideas. Change is always good and even as a leg-shaving, sausage-suited XC rider, I admit that it would be good to shake things up at Albion. All I would ask is that the existing trail system be added to, rather than changed. While many of the trails at Albion have been criticized (sometimes on this very forum) for being too tame, a lot of first time/novice riders ride there and so it is important that the trails remain accessible to all.
 
#6 · (Edited)
i couldn't agree more to have trails for all levels of riders. though until we see what the result of the forest study is i can not say for certain that trails will not be moved. for example a sensitive zone might only allow a low frequency trail or no trails at all. on the other hand an area that had no trials at all might be prime area for trail development.
 
#9 ·
Tough scary stuff that may result in hospital trips. I'd like to see a trail or two that are hard enough such that the average rider will throw his hands up in despair, it should be hard enough that I can't clean them unless I'm having a good day. And a 12' high teeter-totter that puts you on top of a row of porta-potties and then goes to an option of a ladder bridge down or a drop to a ramp.
 
#16 ·
I'd like to see a line of jumps/drops like Sprocket's Drop in Palgrave. Starting very tiny and working their way up to that size, so that it's easier for the novice rider to get the courage to hit them at speed. I think you still need to build a chicken line though, or it will be "built" for you whether you like it or not.
 
#18 ·
i think you touched on an important point regularbob. since i got more involved in advocacy this is something riders are asking me on a regular basis. riders want more flowly fun trails with features. the little section i put into palgrave with slowjoe is very popular.
 
#23 ·
I have never understood why a trail with lots of features can't be built to suit all levels of riders. Teeters, skinny sections and other features over rocks do not necessarily take a lot of room and bypasses can be built without widening trails needlessly. Bypasses have to be considered at time of construction or they will develop in random ways or the features altered anyway. A skinny section with a drop of and ride off option is pretty simple to build. In the attached video I saw nice dirt kickers in the trail. You can choose to roll them of catch air off them. That sort of option is what I am looking for in a trail. Man made, well built features would be the way to go at a place like Albion I would think. This would allow the most flexible solutions to improving that trail system.
I am thinking of a well thought out loop that would cater to this type of riding.
 
#24 ·
Most of the technical features at Hydrocut are "off-line" and if you're not looking for them, you might just ride right by them. It think they've done a great job of building a relatively easy trail with lots of well-integrated challenges.

SS, I don't know if you've been to Hydrocut but I would recommend a quick visit if only as a fact-finding mission. It think it's one of the best and most thoughtful systems in Southern Ontario.
 
#25 ·
I guess I rode right by them as I don't really remember seeing any real features except for about a foot drop off a rock before you get to the open field connecting the two trail systems. At any rate, the HC is a really good place to ride and I enjoyed my one visit where I can't say the same for Albion.
 
#27 ·
I'm not really a fan of "technical features" to be honest and I'm not entirely sure why people think having features makes a trail technical or tough. A tight, steep off-camber switchback for instance will dump more riders on their faces than any number of bridges, skinnies, teeters, or jumps. I was on the TORBA Don social ride last summer and nearly everyone made it over all the bridges & other obstacles, but the tight switchbacks near Sunnybrook took out most of the group. It goes to show that features aren't needed to make a trail hard or technical.

My thoughts are to use the natural terrain to make the trail challenging. Seek out steep slopes, ledges, and other natural obstacles and route the trail on & around them to maximize the difficulty. Instead of putting wide benchcuts or berms on switchbacks, keep them narrow & off-camber. Make the trail go diagonally over a ledge instead of at a right angle. Stuff like that to keep riders honest.
 
#31 ·
i think we could start a whole new thread on what is a technical feature and what isn't.
i've always considered tight switchbacks, off camber logs and roots, natural stone features all as being technical riding.
when you ride at 3 stage and kolapore, they are known for there technical riding trails which are all natural features.
so when some of us refer to technical features we don't mean all man made wooden skinnies,teeter totters etc.
i think most of us would prefer natural features as well as they will stand up well over time and blend in well with the natural landscape.
 
#28 ·
it does have great flow. It was a very fun place to ride, though I still would like to see some man made features. I saw plenty of places to work features into the trails without being obtrusive. Puslinch would be a nightmare to develop in this way and would never recommend doing anything for example.

Aerious- It is not about making the trail necessarily harder or slowing fast riders. It is about having fun and enjoying a different aspect of the ride for me. I don't necessarily want a skinny 9 ft up in the air. Apart from the danger factor, it is just as hard to ride a foot off the ground. I agree that natural technical features such as switchbacks, rocks and roots are awesome and challenging, there just aren't that many of them on a lot of trails. Buckwallow would be my best example of that type of challenging terrain. You hardly need to throw in any man made stuff there.
 
#29 ·
As an Albion 'regular' I wish I had more of a detailed reply, but all I can think of is the obvious - more trails of all difficulty levels, a bit of rebuilding on sections like Tea Cup, more features on new and existing trails to keep the die hards coming back, maybe a pump track and or skills area.

SS you've come off as critical of the old school trails there in the past, if the available terrain allows, this would be a great place to showcase you vision of flow!
 
#30 ·
i think it is important to say it is not just my vision, but the vision of the community/stakeholders/trca. it is clear from everyone's reply that we have to broaden the spectrum of riding and increase the progression. the terrain in albion will allow this. there are now excepted standards to build these types of trails. there are professional trail builders with experience building these type of trails all over north america. there are successful trail networks that use this approach the world over.
 
#34 ·
Regardless of what new trails/feature you add, make sure you have ride-around options for any highly technical features (rocks, bridges, jumps, drops, crazy descents, etc). That way anyone can go on the trail and opt out of any features that are too risky for them.

This is the approach they seem to take in race courses and I like it that way. The slight penalty that comes with riding around a technical section, is the risk-reward we all need to deal with. But at least we don't have to risk injury for a Sport level race.
 
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