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  1. #1
    humber river advocate
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    Albion Hills conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

    I would like to announce that the Albion Hills conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee has been created and that I have a chair on it. As the TORBA Humber Watershed North Director I look forward to everyone’s comments and input about the Albion Hills trail system. Also think about what kind of trails you would like to ride (flow, xc, dj, pump track, nature, etc.) and what changes/accommodations you would like to be done. I really value your input and will champion your requests.
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  2. #2
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    good to hear this
    the place definitely needs a bit of a rework with more single track connecting the existing single track that is there as an option.
    Team Van Go

  3. #3
    humber river advocate
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    thanks for your suggestion trail trash. it has been noted.
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  4. #4
    Lemmy Rules!
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    Congratulations, SS. ANd thank you for walking the walk by getting involved.

    Frankly, I look forward to YOUR ideas. Change is always good and even as a leg-shaving, sausage-suited XC rider, I admit that it would be good to shake things up at Albion. All I would ask is that the existing trail system be added to, rather than changed. While many of the trails at Albion have been criticized (sometimes on this very forum) for being too tame, a lot of first time/novice riders ride there and so it is important that the trails remain accessible to all.
    Strava made me do it....

  5. #5
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    i agree with Unglued about not changing whats already there.
    some of the trails have great flow and its a great place to get people into the sport.
    but there is a lot of room for improvement also.
    Team Van Go

  6. #6
    humber river advocate
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    i couldn't agree more to have trails for all levels of riders. though until we see what the result of the forest study is i can not say for certain that trails will not be moved. for example a sensitive zone might only allow a low frequency trail or no trails at all. on the other hand an area that had no trials at all might be prime area for trail development.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 01-18-2014 at 04:44 AM.
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  7. #7
    Lemmy Rules!
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i couldn't agree more to have trails for all levels of riders. though until we see what the result of the forest study is i can not say for certain that trails will not be moved. for example a sensitive zone might only allow a low frequency trail or no trails at all. on the other hand an area that had no trials at all might be prime area for trail development.

    That's fair. What I was talking about was changing trails because they are "too easy".
    Strava made me do it....

  8. #8
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    A trail that's something like this would be fun, and it would definitely broaden the spectrum of difficulty at Albion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R671...e_gdata_player

  9. #9
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    Tough scary stuff that may result in hospital trips. I'd like to see a trail or two that are hard enough such that the average rider will throw his hands up in despair, it should be hard enough that I can't clean them unless I'm having a good day. And a 12' high teeter-totter that puts you on top of a row of porta-potties and then goes to an option of a ladder bridge down or a drop to a ramp.

  10. #10
    Lemmy Rules!
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    Disagree. A trail should be accessible to the majority of a trail network's demographic, not the minority
    Strava made me do it....

  11. #11
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by regularbob View Post
    A trail that's something like this would be fun, and it would definitely broaden the spectrum of difficulty at Albion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R671...e_gdata_player
    i definitely agree that the spectrum of difficulty has to be increased.

    nice trail, i would call that generally a flow trail. i love riding trails like that. these type of trails tend to be popular, plus there are established standards that can be cited Flow Trails | International Mountain Bicycling Association
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  12. #12
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Tough scary stuff that may result in hospital trips. I'd like to see a trail or two that are hard enough such that the average rider will throw his hands up in despair, it should be hard enough that I can't clean them unless I'm having a good day. And a 12' high teeter-totter that puts you on top of a row of porta-potties and then goes to an option of a ladder bridge down or a drop to a ramp.
    i don't recommend wooden structures because of the levels of maintenance required. we have to consider the buy in by the property staff and make it easy for them to maintain.
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  13. #13
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    That's fair. What I was talking about was changing trails because they are "too easy".
    noted
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  14. #14
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Disagree. A trail should be accessible to the majority of a trail network's demographic, not the minority
    that is an important consideration. it is not cost effective to build a trail that no one will use. you want to spread the people out over the trail network to offer the best possible experience for everyone.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Disagree. A trail should be accessible to the majority of a trail network's demographic, not the minority
    I can see your point, but I'd disagree. For example, the world cup DH trail at Bromont and especially 1837 at Ste. Anne are both disgustingly hard trails that maim people. How hard are they? They're bad enough that they often get overgrown with weeds since not enough riders are using them. And those trails are awesome. At both resorts the vast majority of riders will stick to the easier & more flowy trails and only a small percentage will ride the really hard stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    it is not cost effective to build a trail that no one will use. you want to spread the people out over the trail network to offer the best possible experience for everyone.
    On the other hand, build it and they will come. Kelso back in the day was known as mostly an XC place with a DH run. Then they built the Extreme trail and attracted a whole new demographic of riders. I believe Albion can do the same.

  16. #16
    Up, Up, and Away!
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    I'd like to see a line of jumps/drops like Sprocket's Drop in Palgrave. Starting very tiny and working their way up to that size, so that it's easier for the novice rider to get the courage to hit them at speed. I think you still need to build a chicken line though, or it will be "built" for you whether you like it or not.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i definitely agree that the spectrum of difficulty has to be increased.

    nice trail, i would call that generally a flow trail. i love riding trails like that. these type of trails tend to be popular, plus there are established standards that can be cited Flow Trails | International Mountain Bicycling Association
    I have seen a couple of videos of the Kalamunda circuit in Perth, Australia and the trails definitely look fun. The vidwos feature a lot of flowy XC trails with DH-like features. And it looks like the features are graduated in difficultly and that there are bail outs on each feature.

    In Ontario we seem to have an abundance of XC trail systems. We have a few DH and freestyle options but not a whole lot in between. I would say that the Don Valley and some of Durham forest and some of Hardwood Hills offer some degree of flow but by and large most of the trails are XC. So I think it would be nice to see some more trails like this introduced to other areas. I love the flowy trails in the Don and Hardwood Hills. I definitely think I would frequent any trail system that has more flow.

    Regarding "Tough scary stuff that may result in hospital trips" - I guess it can be expected that people would raise there concerns about elevating the technicality and difficultly of the trails. However everything is relative. I started mountain biking mostly in Albion Hills when I first started biking in Ontario and I found that the Don was a bit too technical for my liking and the steepness of the ridge line and the random bridges and features freaked me out a little. But as I did more riding and as I got fitter, my confidence grew quickly. Now I love bombing down the Don trails and I try to hit all of the features that I see. However, when I watch youtube videos of the DH in Whistler, I just know that those trails would freak me out. Anyway, just wanted to illustrate the point that it's all relative, and not just between riders but also within one rider's progression.

  18. #18
    humber river advocate
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    i think you touched on an important point regularbob. since i got more involved in advocacy this is something riders are asking me on a regular basis. riders want more flowly fun trails with features. the little section i put into palgrave with slowjoe is very popular.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i think you touched on an important point regularbob. since i got more involved in advocacy this is something riders are asking me on a regular basis. riders want more flowly fun trails with features. the little section i put into palgrave with slowjoe is very popular.
    My friends and I love your little section in palgrave. Thank you!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    the little section i put into palgrave with slowjoe is very popular.
    Thanks, just did a search on it and found your posting palgrave gets more fun.... Will definitely need to check it out come spring. Thanks for your efforts with improving the trails.

  21. #21
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    May I be the first to add having more consistent hot water in the showers at the Chalet ;-)

  22. #22
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccaddy View Post
    May I be the first to add having more consistent hot water in the showers at the Chalet ;-)
    actually a better/larger/modern washroom/change facility with a power efficient flow through water heating system is a good idea.
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  23. #23
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    I have never understood why a trail with lots of features can't be built to suit all levels of riders. Teeters, skinny sections and other features over rocks do not necessarily take a lot of room and bypasses can be built without widening trails needlessly. Bypasses have to be considered at time of construction or they will develop in random ways or the features altered anyway. A skinny section with a drop of and ride off option is pretty simple to build. In the attached video I saw nice dirt kickers in the trail. You can choose to roll them of catch air off them. That sort of option is what I am looking for in a trail. Man made, well built features would be the way to go at a place like Albion I would think. This would allow the most flexible solutions to improving that trail system.
    I am thinking of a well thought out loop that would cater to this type of riding.
    Burnt Norton

  24. #24
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by secret agent View Post
    I have never understood why a trail with lots of features can't be built to suit all levels of riders. Teeters, skinny sections and other features over rocks do not necessarily take a lot of room and bypasses can be built without widening trails needlessly. Bypasses have to be considered at time of construction or they will develop in random ways or the features altered anyway. A skinny section with a drop of and ride off option is pretty simple to build. In the attached video I saw nice dirt kickers in the trail. You can choose to roll them of catch air off them. That sort of option is what I am looking for in a trail. Man made, well built features would be the way to go at a place like Albion I would think. This would allow the most flexible solutions to improving that trail system.
    I am thinking of a well thought out loop that would cater to this type of riding.
    Most of the technical features at Hydrocut are "off-line" and if you're not looking for them, you might just ride right by them. It think they've done a great job of building a relatively easy trail with lots of well-integrated challenges.

    SS, I don't know if you've been to Hydrocut but I would recommend a quick visit if only as a fact-finding mission. It think it's one of the best and most thoughtful systems in Southern Ontario.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  25. #25
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    I guess I rode right by them as I don't really remember seeing any real features except for about a foot drop off a rock before you get to the open field connecting the two trail systems. At any rate, the HC is a really good place to ride and I enjoyed my one visit where I can't say the same for Albion.
    Burnt Norton

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