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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiPhil View Post
    Why, because in the future ebikes will become more prevalent, there is no doubt about that. So, maybe its best to set in stone the limitations of whats expectable on the trails, before the combined voice of ebikers gets more rights than what you'd be willing to except. Class1 bikes aren't the devil, by excepting them and putting tight regulation around them now, would be better than what could come in the future?
    Oh your crystal ball looks so rosy. Don't see the current motorized ban on trails here in MA changing anytime soon. We will send them all to NZ. Combined voice? Not even a peep.

  2. #202
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    Those hover boards sure were popular a few years ago, now not so much. Mopeds were big back in the early '80s but pretty much died out here in the US. Ebikes may get more prevalent as commuter vehicles.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Interesting post, Flamingtaco. Based on what you have pointed out, is the speed regulator set too high for class 1 ebikes? Since it seems the purpose of riding an ebike on a trail is that the rider doesn't want to put out the energy to climb, would it make sense to match climbing speed to that of a real bicycle?
    Honestly, no, that won't work. Ex. How do you determine a twisty single track climb Vs wide multi-use path with clear line of site Vs a road, where it's much safer to be at 20 than 3?

    It's not fair for me to say mountain bikers shouldn't have to suffer for ebikers, but expect ebikers to suffer, and I don't anyone to suffer for the benefit of any other group, but there are a lot of valid concerns that ebikes are largely incompatible with other user groups.

    This does not mean ebikers deserve to be relegated to motorized trail access, and some of the ebikes are obviously incompatible with certain motorized systems, ex. trails that permit speeds up to 50mph shouldn't be ridden on ebikes that cut the power at 25mph.

    I think the long term solution is going to be a combination of dedicated trails and trails that cross the lines between non-motorized, electric, and ICE. I don't see this as being an issue as this already exists between hikers, mtbr's, and equestrians, and works well most of the time.

    In the meantime, ebikes are permitted on all motorized trails, and some non-motorized trails, as the country works to figure out how to handle this new sport. During the coming decades, I ask that ebikers resist poaching, much like mtbr's have had to resist poaching hiker only trails for decades.

    I also ask ebikers to use and abundance of common sense when hitting motorized trails, of which I know many would be hella fun on a decent ebike, just like they were on my old snail (Kawa 125). If your motor cuts out past 25mph, you don't need to be on a trail that other users can achieve 50. You don't deserve to be injured by a fast ICE any more than I deserve to be injured by you.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  4. #204
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    Have you seen all the new e bikes coming out? all for the trail use ??

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    Have you seen all the new e bikes coming out? all for the trail use ??


    Now all they need are legal trails to ride them on.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiPhil View Post
    Why, because in the future ebikes will become more prevalent, there is no doubt about that. So, maybe its best to set in stone the limitations of whats expectable on the trails, before the combined voice of ebikers gets more rights than what you'd be willing to except. Class1 bikes aren't the devil, by excepting them and putting tight regulation around them now, would be better than what could come in the future?
    Using a 'let us in now, or you won't like what comes later' argument isn't going to provide the results you want. Mtbr's have been dealing with threats from other user groups for decades now, and can see right through that charade.

    I'm beginning to understand that few advocating for ebike access on multiuse trails understand the tenuous relationship mtbr's have with other user groups and land managers, and how fear of ebikes
    can tip the balance away from mtbr's.

    In the world of ORV's there is a real problem with trail maintenance. There aren't enough people willing to maintain trails for a tenth of the volume of trail users. The result is trails are ground down to the bedrock quickly. In Kentucky, they close trail systems because use wears trails through 15ft of hardpack clay and dumps tens of thousands cu-ft of silt into creeks and rivers.

    The ORV community has real issues with self governance that land managers must deal with, and they do not have the time or funds to distinguish a 5w assist motor from a 5000w motor that rooster tails dirt, rock, snakes and gophers for a hundred feet.

    Why don't MTBr's like the idea granting ebikes access to non-motorized trails? BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH EBIKES IN A TIME WHEN MOST LAND MANAGERS DO NOT HAVE A GOOD GRASP ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 250W MOTOR ASSIST BIKE AND A KTM 450 SX-F. Seriously, the argument for wide swath access smacks of ignorance and/or lack of concern for what it has taken mtbr's to get to where we are.

    My personal saga is that until about ten years ago, we had zero trails approved for bikes of any type. There were no specific prohibitions, so trails would get built, or existing trails shared, then they would be shut down or policed to get the bikes off of them, because there was no legislation specifically defining mtb's as a user group. Access had been fought for since the early 80'sm and I joined the fight for access and also safer roads in the mid 90's. Years of abuse at the hands of hikers, equestrians and cyclist haters, both at access meetings and on the roads and trails, led me to quit all forms of cycling out of frustration, for over a decade.

    It's been a long, arduous fight, filled with missteps, tenous relationships, and a cargo ship full of headaches. My only comment to land managers about ebikes is that ebikers need to fight fight for access on their own merit, and the land managers should handle them as a separate user group so that decisions for or against their use do not impact other users. Yes, this means ebikers don't get as much access as mtbr's, but it also means mtbr's don't lose access.

    I also believe California's class 1 designation leaves a lot to be desired in regards to shared trails. We have existing issues with riders that don't have pro level power output. Do we need riders on the trail that can put down more power than a pro? Double the power? Turning fast rollers into jumps?
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    Have you seen all the new e bikes coming out? all for the trail use ??
    What is being produced is of no consequence as the the tail does not wag the dog here. Access will not be granted just because more eBikers show up to the trailheads. In fact, it will go very differently in many places, with motorized not permitted signs going up and higher enforcement levels to get ebikes off the trails. When people plunk down thousands of dollars on a toy, only to find out they have limited or no place to play, they dump their new trail toy on the used marked, driving used prices way down, killing new sales. If trail access does not come, the eMTB industry will die off, and you'll be left with a handful of compromise eTrailbikes as dedicated eMTB hardware will not be profitable.

    As long as it takes to get trail access in the US, I expect we'll see a major slump in the coming years as this niche and the used ebike market saturates. If most eBikers are of the mind that they deserve to be on non-motorized trails and don't bother exploring motorized trails, I don't see any other way this can go unless ebikers can get wilderness access. Good luck with that.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  8. #208
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    The more Ebikes that hit the ground and are sold are going to create more ebike poaching on illegal trails. With no enforcement, where does this lead? I think ebike parks would be a great place to ride them. Ebike parks, "SPONSORED BY SPECIALIZED, TREK ETC" would and should be the responsible thing to do. If LM allow them on certain trails, great. If not, go rip ebike parks along with the downhill shuttle scene.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    . Ebike parks, "SPONSORED BY SPECIALIZED, TREK ETC" would and should be the responsible thing to do.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

    Now that's funny stuff! You see these guys building MTB parks, even with the number of MTBs they've sold?

    Sorry to bring up reality again, but anyone looking to 'the industry' for answers is in for a long lonely wait. E-bikers need to get organized and learn lessons for MTB advocacy. Want to grow this forum? Start coming at things from that angle. Guarantee it'll work better than bitching about how mountain bikers aren't lining up to fight your battles for you.
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  10. #210
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    ^i got no dog in the fight. I said "should" not they're gonna. To be quite honest, I really don't care how any of this shakes out. It's dumb talking about any of this.
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Sorry to bring up reality again, but anyone looking to 'the industry' for answers is in for a long lonely wait. E-bikers need to get organized and learn lessons for MTB advocacy. Want to grow this forum? Start coming at things from that angle. Guarantee it'll work better than bitching about how mountain bikers aren't lining up to fight your battles for you.
    Yep, we get support from the industry, but only those companies who have a presence here, SRAM, Rotor, SRM and a few others. Bike companies primarily only cut checks much farther up the food chain, like to lobbyists or IMBA. With a few exceptions that I can think of, like Bell grants, they aren't involved with anything on the ground.

    While ebikes will continue to be popular in Europe, with our more problematic regulations here, unless the USFS/BLM changes their stance, I think it'll be an uphill battle to get enough access to make spending the $ on one worth it. I'd have concerns spending that kind of money on a bike that I could only ride here and there.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    ^i got no dog in the fight. I said "should" not they're gonna. To be quite honest, I really don't care how any of this shakes out. It's dumb talking about any of this.

    Dig it...I was using 'you' collectively, not aiming my comments specifically at any yourself.

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  13. #213
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    Where is the mtbr sub forum for off road scooters and mountainboards? At least those aren't motorized.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    It's dumb talking about any of this.
    True. Yet my drivetrain and suspension are sorted, so I just wandered in here again.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by fos'l View Post
    Don't allow any negative comments about e-bikes unless you've ridden one or have had an issue with someone riding one. Most of the BS negativity here is all made up on the couch.
    Hell yeah, bruh!!! Could not agree more. You are a freakin GENIUS.

    And now that I cogitate upon it, I realize that no one should be allowed to make negative comments about murder unless they've killed someone, either.

    Gotta end all the made-up-on-the-couch BS negativity!

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marion Delgado View Post
    Hell yeah, bruh!!! Could not agree more. You are a freakin GENIUS.

    And now that I cogitate upon it, I realize that no one should be allowed to make negative comments about murder unless they've killed someone, either.

    Gotta end all the made-up-on-the-couch BS negativity!
    You're a good example of "How can we NOT grow this forum".

  17. #217
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    Nothing good has come from here just read the reply's got a positive story about e bikes and puppy dogs?? got a story about a e biker stopping a crime on a bike path you will just get hate. This site shows a small but some of the worst of Mt biking name calling from the elitist who don't want to sure our public trails , I am embarrassed by the hate from other so called MT bikers that is spewed on here every post turns in to a not on my trail rant . I encourage my fellow E bikers to prove the haters wrong every time we ride what ever trail we ride never allow the hate from here to keep you from enjoying Mt biking with other Mt bikers .

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    Mt biking with other Mt bikers .
    E-bikes aren't mountain bikes.
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  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    This site shows a small but some of the worst of Mt biking name calling from the elitist who don't want to share our public trails
    I don't see much 'hate', unless you define hate in the same way as Lefties do, that is, anyone who disagrees with you? What I do see are people fed up with ebiker intransigence over issues that could have serious ramifications for all two-wheeled adventurers.

  20. #220
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    I can call bull$hit on delusional people all day long without hate ever coming into the equation, and it doesn't even take an elitist stance to do it.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    This site shows a small but some of the worst of Mt biking name calling from the elitist
    Irony

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  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    This site shows a small but some of the worst of Mt biking name calling from the elitist




    I think you mean "Purists", and if not wanting motorized vehicles on the trails makes me one so be it.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    Nothing good has come from here just read the reply's got a positive story about e bikes and puppy dogs?? got a story about a e biker stopping a crime on a bike path you will just get hate. This site shows a small but some of the worst of Mt biking name calling from the elitist who don't want to sure our public trails , I am embarrassed by the hate from other so called MT bikers that is spewed on here every post turns in to a not on my trail rant . I encourage my fellow E bikers to prove the haters wrong every time we ride what ever trail we ride never allow the hate from here to keep you from enjoying Mt biking with other Mt bikers .
    Grow the forum? Start with " Bikes don't have motors"

  24. #224
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    This thread had actually hit a good stretch of discussion on the subject matter until your post. If you want to grow the forum, find some ebikers who can articulate their viewpoint and discuss, I've only seen a couple with that capability. Most just want to rant against "haters" when a post isn't on their side.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Grow the forum? Start with " Bikes don't have motors"
    intel you can get over this the forum will never grow

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I don't see much 'hate', unless you define hate in the same way as Lefties do, that is, anyone who disagrees with you? What I do see are people fed up with ebiker intransigence over issues that could have serious ramifications for all two-wheeled adventurers.
    Jesus, "righties" are the e-bikers of the political world. You guys are so freaking fragile. You cry haters whenever anyone doesn't agree with your views, sounds familiar.
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  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Jesus, "righties" are the e-bikers of the political world. You guys are so freaking fragile. You cry haters whenever anyone doesn't agree with your views, sounds familiar.
    What??

  28. #228
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    Anyone use the new ebike specific 27.5 ikons on their trail bike? Seems like they might hold up better than the normal mtb version.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    Anyone use the new ebike specific 27.5 ikons on their trail bike? Seems like they might hold up better than the normal mtb version.
    Why would they hold up better? ebikes are essentially the same as pedal mountain bikes so why would they need tougher tyres?

    You do realise that if you admit that ebikes need tougher tyres it proves that all the bleating about them not delivering more torque to the dirt is total lies?

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Why would they hold up better? ebikes are essentially the same as pedal mountain bikes so why would they need tougher tyres?

    You do realise that if you admit that ebikes need tougher tyres it proves that all the bleating about them not delivering more torque to the dirt is total lies?
    They have heavier casings.

    Manufacturers are producing burlier wheels, tires, drivetrains, forks, and even seats to deal with the higher speeds, weight and torque of ebikes. I know people in the industry who just laugh when you ask them about drivetrain longevity when using bike components on an emtb, especially with 750w. They're just bikes right? 😉

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    What??
    Don't worry about it. Neither of you made any sense with your statements.

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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    They have heavier casings.

    Manufacturers are producing burlier wheels, tires, drivetrains, forks, and even seats to deal with the higher speeds, weight and torque of ebikes. I know people in the industry who just laugh when you ask them about drivetrain longevity when using bike components on an emtb, especially with 750w. They're just bikes right? 
    E bikes are good for the aggressive mtber because they are forcing manufactures to create stronger components. The Guide RE brakes look pretty awesome too. I might try an ebike ikon on my non motorized trail bike, its a lot lighter than a double down aggressor and maybe there is a chance it will hold up better than an exo casing.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    E bikes are good for the aggressive mtber because they are forcing manufactures to create stronger components. The Guide RE brakes look pretty awesome too. I might try an ebike ikon on my non motorized trail bike, its a lot lighter than a double down aggressor and maybe there is a chance it will hold up better than an exo casing.
    Wow. So, had we never had ebikes, we would never have thought to seek out stronger casings with lighter weight.

    There's no shortage of components across the spectrum of light to beefy, depending on the application. If you want DH brakes, you can buy DH brakes. If you want all mountain brakes, you can buy all mountain brakes. If you want beefier casings, get beefier casings.

    Ebike specific tires, brakes, and other components are more marketing opportunism than emerging technology.

    How about ebike specific.... grips! For the extra... demands... I guess?

    Show me an actual component breakthrough driven by ebikes that wasn't known / available anyways.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    Wow. So, had we never had ebikes, we would never have thought to seek out stronger casings with lighter weight.

    There's no shortage of components across the spectrum of light to beefy, depending on the application. If you want DH brakes, you can buy DH brakes. If you want all mountain brakes, you can buy all mountain brakes. If you want beefier casings, get beefier casings.

    Ebike specific tires, brakes, and other components are more marketing opportunism than emerging technology.

    How about ebike specific.... grips! For the extra... demands... I guess?

    Show me an actual component breakthrough driven by ebikes that wasn't known / available anyways.
    Where can I buy a double down maxxis ikon? I've only seen enduro and downhill casings with slower rolling tread patterns.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    Where can I buy a double down maxxis ikon? I've only seen enduro and downhill casings with slower rolling tread patterns.
    If you consider yourself an aggressive MTBer (and based on your profile pics it looks like you are), you probably don't want Ikons. Its an XC racing tire.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    If you consider yourself an aggressive MTBer (and based on your profile pics it looks like you are), you probably don't want Ikons. Its an XC racing tire.
    For when the uphill times matter as much as not flatting on the downhills, DD aggressors are awesome downhill but slow climbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by procter View Post
    wow. So, had we never had ebikes, we would never have thought to seek out stronger casings with lighter weight.

    There's no shortage of components across the spectrum of light to beefy, depending on the application. If you want dh brakes, you can buy dh brakes. If you want all mountain brakes, you can buy all mountain brakes. If you want beefier casings, get beefier casings.

    Ebike specific tires, brakes, and other components are more marketing opportunism than emerging technology.

    How about ebike specific.... Grips! For the extra... Demands... I guess?

    Show me an actual component breakthrough driven by ebikes that wasn't known / available anyways.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
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    A durable 11-48 8 speed? Seems perfect for anyone that is constantly snapping narrow 11 speed chains.

  39. #239
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    Well, I've used it on my Levo and it works well. I've only snapped one 11spd chain on my mtb though, but I guess others have more? I can't put as much stress under load on my mtb as I could my Levo.
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  40. #240
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    Not buying it. If there was demand for that in regular mtbs, they would have built it anyways. Who is breaking lots of x01 or x1 chains? Haven't heard that but if they were, it's an obvious invention, not something that would only arise from ebikes.

    Let's see, our chains are too narrow and fragile... What should we do? Maybe, beef them up?

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    Where is the mtbr sub forum for off road scooters and mountainboards? At least those aren't motorized.
    Too late...

    How Can We Grow This Forum?-emtboard.jpg

    ...on both accounts.

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    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    Not buying it. If there was demand for that in regular mtbs, they would have built it anyways. Who is breaking lots of x01 or x1 chains? Haven't heard that but if they were, it's an obvious invention, not something that would only arise from ebikes.

    Let's see, our chains are too narrow and fragile... What should we do? Maybe, beef them up?
    Most people don't, which is why strength is getting replaced with more gears. I can snap them fairly quickly if I start doing a ton of larger rear wheel pedal kick gaps on my mtb, but that isnt a problem for many riders or people riding under normal xc / am usage.

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    Been riding my e bike with the same chain for 5 yrs but I go through tires fast and spend a lot more on travel and staying in new places riding. Just bought a pull behind trailer for my bike to pull my grand kids around and to help with trail work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    Not buying it. If there was demand for that in regular mtbs, they would have built it anyways. Who is breaking lots of x01 or x1 chains? Haven't heard that but if they were, it's an obvious invention, not something that would only arise from ebikes.

    Let's see, our chains are too narrow and fragile... What should we do? Maybe, beef them up?
    Yep, who needs a lightweight, fragile drivetrain anyway when you have a motor to drive it?

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    Saving my money to buy my first store bought e bike to take back west CO , moab , next spring so many new cool bikes n stuff for the e biker .

  46. #246
    mtbr member
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    Aug 2017
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    You need to focus on what you are instereted in. And then you will make your comment for it.Tks.

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