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  1. #1
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    Great Expectations

    Haven't posted here in awhile, but just want to point out a few facts to other e-positives.
    1. We can't and shouldn't expect help from the MTB crowd to gain access. SHM, a fair-minded individual, said it best: he's got many other considerations more worthy of his time. Those of us who did trail work, attended meetings and assisted on rides as docents for MTB, need to shut up and do it again.
    2. We shouldn't expect assistance from the manufacturers. They're spending their money on advertising.
    3. Stop the BS about e-MTB's being MTB's. They're a different class; who the hell are we trying to kid? Maybe there are areas where we can coexist, but obviously not everywhere and maybe nowhere.
    4. Don't argue with certain individuals, just put them where they belong, on ignore. We have e-negatives who equate e-bikes with murder and in the past with child molestation (surprisingly not drug dealing yet). Can you expect to have a meaningful conversation with crazies? Also, ignore those who are going to pummel the next e-biker they see; we all know they're full of the stuff that makes grass grow. Most of
    these individuals are proving there are more horses asses in the world than horses.

    Remember: if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one who was hit.

  2. #2
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    Very well put fosl now lets ride

  3. #3
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    Totally agree with you, specially #3!

    Emtb riding is so different, and it is so much fun!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  4. #4
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    I'm just going to copy and paste myself here, but basically, well said Fos'l.

    Every conversation about this should start with the understanding that:
    1: Ebikes aren't bikes. They also aren't motorcycles. They are a new and different thing.
    2: More power means more speed in most situations. In some cases that's fine, in some it's not.
    3: The (legitimately) disabled should be helped to enjoy the outdoors whenever possible, that includes e-bikes.
    4: Technology that is legal for street or bike path use is not necessarily appropriate for singletrack. The "my ebike is legally a bike so I can do whatever I want" argument is a dead end for access in the long term.
    5: Regulating e-bikes is a very tough problem and we've already seen (here) examples of people delimiting their mass market bikes. Creative solutions are needed.

    Starting from there, you can have a useful and interesting conversation.

    -Walt

  5. #5
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    Wow, Walt, couldn't agree more; thanks for the amplification, and agree that if we started here, the threads would be less contentious and more fun. Also, thanks 95 & Pinoy.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm just going to copy and paste myself here, but basically, well said Fos'l.

    Every conversation about this should start with the understanding that:
    1: Ebikes aren't bikes. They also aren't motorcycles. They are a new and different thing.
    2: More power means more speed in most situations. In some cases that's fine, in some it's not.
    3: The (legitimately) disabled should be helped to enjoy the outdoors whenever possible, that includes e-bikes.
    4: Technology that is legal for street or bike path use is not necessarily appropriate for singletrack. The "my ebike is legally a bike so I can do whatever I want" argument is a dead end for access in the long term.
    5: Regulating e-bikes is a very tough problem and we've already seen (here) examples of people delimiting their mass market bikes. Creative solutions are needed.

    Starting from there, you can have a useful and interesting conversation.

    -Walt
    Truth

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm just going to copy and paste myself here, but basically, well said Fos'l.

    Every conversation about this should start with the understanding that:
    1: Ebikes aren't bikes. They also aren't motorcycles. They are a new and different thing.
    2: More power means more speed in most situations. In some cases that's fine, in some it's not.
    3: The (legitimately) disabled should be helped to enjoy the outdoors whenever possible, that includes e-bikes.
    4: Technology that is legal for street or bike path use is not necessarily appropriate for singletrack. The "my ebike is legally a bike so I can do whatever I want" argument is a dead end for access in the long term.
    5: Regulating e-bikes is a very tough problem and we've already seen (here) examples of people delimiting their mass market bikes. Creative solutions are needed.

    Starting from there, you can have a useful and interesting conversation.

    -Walt


    Sticky this. Reading this should be the gatekeeper to this sub-forum imo.

  8. #8
    Cycologist
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    I'm in. If there is one thing I've learned on this site it is how much trails and thus situations vary depending on where you ride. Same thing for road riding. What is true for one situation is not necessarily true in all situations.

  9. #9
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    I think K did that already. Nobody reads the stickies.

    Sigh.

    -Walt

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I think K did that already. Nobody reads the stickies.

    Sigh.

    -Walt



    No mechanism to make it required reading? Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00?

  11. #11
    middle ring single track
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    Well put fos'l; your're beginning to smell the roses.

    Walt says the same thing better though.

    Re stickies; they tend to be the instructions we're all too smart to read.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  12. #12
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Sticky this. Reading this should be the gatekeeper to this sub-forum imo.
    It is quoted in the Rules section already, I put it there months ago... too bad no one reads it before posting.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  13. #13
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    I'm in!

    I think from this sort of a starting point, common ground and positive input will be a lot easier to come by.
    Sinister Bikes
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  14. #14
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    Suppose I need to rent one someday to have an opinion.

    In the end, I believe mechanical regulations are a silly mess, outside of crowded "destination resort" trail systems. It just comes down to the driver, not the bike?

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