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  1. #201
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    Take it easy there pilgrim,
    Let me propose the following'
    As an ebiker with MS, rheumatoid arthritis, etc i have far more in common with you than differences.

    What I am after when I ride,
    A good work out pedaling my bike in the great outdoors. Respect the trails and other riders, work with others to keep access to our outdoors. Have as little impact on nature as possible. Preserve these areas for future recreation.
    I ride an ebike with only 350 watts power, couldn't damage a trail with it if I wanted too.
    Top speed with me pedaling my ass off is maybe 20 mph on flat ground.
    It is super quiet and you could not tell it was electric unless you were familar with this style bike. I have worked on trails and been active keeping trails open. Rode regular MTB until I could not do it physically anymore. Still ride with my wife who uses a standard MTB.
    The addition of the electric motor allows me to keep up with her and go 20 miles.
    What I don't want, noisy super fast bikes that put others in harms way, noisy anything that distracts from the outdoors.
    I am after the same experience the regular MTb rider is after I just need a little assist.
    Before you make up your mind go out and ride a regular powered ebike. Don't use these high powered monsters to compare, I have never seen one and don't want to see one on MTb trails.
    You will find they are super quiet, safe, give a great workout, will not tear up any trails and are fun to ride.
    Let's work together for our general well being, be realistic what an ebike really is, and let's enjoy our sport together.
    RC

  2. #202
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    Power assist is not really part of "our sport." There are plenty of multi-use trails in my area where you can ride with other powered vehicles.

    Nobody hates you. It's just that if we allow you we open the gate to every eBike. Why are you special? Who else can make a case for using powered vehicles on trails and where do we draw the line?

    I will say it again: the majority of people who will use powered bike are going to be people too lazy or out of shape to pedal up a hill. It's doesn't apply to you but there it is.

    If you want to go out to the mountain bike trail bring a bike and muscles.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    Let's work together for our general well being, be realistic what an ebike really is, and let's enjoy our sport together.
    RC



    Sorry, that is not possible. If one is allowed then all will have to be allowed. If you feel it necessary to ride dirt then you should start petitioning for e-bike only trails and start building. Otherwise, Non-Motorized Trails means just that, NO MOTORS! Again, its a simple concept that some of the e-bike crowd just doesn't seem to comprehend.

  4. #204
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    If one is allowed then all will have to be allowed.

    That is like saying allow one motorcycle on the roads have to allow all of them. Well off road motorcycles are not allowed etc. Certain motorcycles are not allowed on freeways etc.
    In reality my bike is no different than yours, it will not go as fast, probably has fewer gears, weights more. Your bike can probably out perform my ebike so explain to me why it needs to be banned?
    To say it is not possible will affect MTB more than ebikers in the future. In Europe they are selling like crazy and will soon take over the sales of MTB's. Why not use this large group of people to help your cause?
    It is not impossible, I have overcome much bigger obstacles in my job and in the end got everyone working toward the same goal. There were people on the fringe of both sides that were upset but with the final outcome 98% were very happy.
    RC

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    If one is allowed then all will have to be allowed.

    That is like saying allow one motorcycle on the roads have to allow all of them. Well off road motorcycles are not allowed etc. Certain motorcycles are not allowed on freeways etc.
    In reality my bike is no different than yours, it will not go as fast, probably has fewer gears, weights more. Your bike can probably out perform my ebike so explain to me why it needs to be banned?
    To say it is not possible will affect MTB more than ebikers in the future. In Europe they are selling like crazy and will soon take over the sales of MTB's. Why not use this large group of people to help your cause?
    It is not impossible, I have overcome much bigger obstacles in my job and in the end got everyone working toward the same goal. There were people on the fringe of both sides that were upset but with the final outcome 98% were very happy.
    RC
    Ive said it before and ill say it again, you ebikers dont get it because you arent an actual cyclist.. you dont get the culture or lifestyle..

    Your cycle is motorized.. and it doesnt belong on our trails. In many states/jurisdictions.. anything motorized on our cycling trails (and often on sidewalks and bicycle lanes too) are illegal.
    Put a mountain biker in a room with 2 bowling balls and we'll break one and lose the other - GelatiCruiser

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Power assist is not really part of "our sport."

    Exactly it is a sport not a competition on every ride for every rider. The vast majority of people on the trails that I ride are not in a competition and could care less what you are riding.
    Again how is your bike so different than mine?
    Yours will go faster, is lighter and has more gears.
    Your bike will outperform mine, mine is not louder than yours so why does it need to be banned?
    It sounds more like you are saying if you are fat, lazy and out of shape you are not allowed on our trails. Well that won't work.
    I don't know anyone out of the 10 ebikers I have ridden with that are fat, lazy and out of shape. All are over 55, recovering from surgery or a bad disease and they are trying to continue what they use to do but can no longer accomplish.
    Embrace these people they are 100% after the same "experience" that you are after out on the trail. I am not talking about the 15 year old with a modified dirt bike that is out riding the bike trails illegally.
    Please go check out an ebike I think once you ride one you will not be near as threatened.
    RC

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    Ive said it before and ill say it again, you ebikers dont get it because you arent an actual cyclist.. you dont get the culture or lifestyle...
    I rode almost everyday from the time I was in high school until I was 40 and got MS.
    My lifestyle was as a clyclist. I had 3 bikes, MTB, road and a home built. I rode around Lake Tahoe, road the sierra trails every summer for 25 years.
    You may not consider me a cyclist but I do.
    What makes me not a cyclist?
    So I am starting to get this, a certain small number of you only want a certain type of "person" on "your" trails. It has nothing to do with the facts.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIVER29 View Post
    Saw another electric mountain bike on the trail the other day. It got me thinking, do I care about this? Am I going to start seeing a bunch of fat rich dudes (no offense to large or wealthy riders who pedal) who don't pedal ripping down our trails? Can someone give me some perspective here? Do I call the ranger 'cause the trail clearly states no motorized vehicles?
    Fine with me, definitely better than the dirt bikes, motorcycles and go carts I see on my area trails

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    I rode almost everyday from the time I was in high school until I was 40 and got MS.
    My lifestyle was as a clyclist. I had 3 bikes, MTB, road and a home built. I rode around Lake Tahoe, road the sierra trails every summer for 25 years.
    You may not consider me a cyclist but I do.
    What makes me not a cyclist?
    So I am starting to get this, a certain small number of you only want a certain type of "person" on "your" trails. It has nothing to do with the facts.



    Which fact? The one that e-bikes are motorized? Or is it the one that e-bikes are not allowed on non-motorized trails? There are plenty of places for you to ride your motorized bike so exempting them from the few trails that MTBers have left is small price. If you feel that you need more single track to ride on then get permission from the land managers and get to building it.

  10. #210
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    Your bikes are geared I propose that these fat, lazy people be banned from riding the true trails reserved for single gear bikes only. Fact, my bike is no more powerful than yours, at 250 watts where a true biker can generate 300 to 400 watts. What are you afraid of?

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    Your bikes are geared I propose that these fat, lazy people be banned from riding the true trails reserved for single gear bikes only. Fact, my bike is no more powerful than yours, at 250 watts where a true biker can generate 300 to 400 watts. What are you afraid of?
    the aholes that modify their ebikes for 1000 watts which are completely incapable of regulating trailside....

    no different than the aholes that discovered if their doctor "certifies" their little yappy dogs as "service companion dogs", that they can fall under the umbrella of the disability act, which allows people that truly need service dogs..

    If youre incapable of pedaling a bike without the use of a motor, then you are no longer fit into our category.
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    Your bikes are geared I propose that these fat, lazy people be banned from riding the true trails reserved for single gear bikes only. Fact, my bike is no more powerful than yours, at 250 watts where a true biker can generate 300 to 400 watts. What are you afraid of?


    Your strawman is not standing up straight. Afraid of? Nothing. Willing to keep up the fight for our hard won trails? Most certainly. Go ride with the other Motos.

  13. #213
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    Re: Electric Bikes on MTB Trails

    Hey rogercor,

    With great respect, I'm sorry about your Ms, this terrible debilitating disease is no joke. But that isn't a reason why a motorized bike should be allowed on non-motorized trails.

    To all who say its ok because 'they aren't that much more powerful' and 'they have short battery life', E bikes will get more powerful, and have more battery longevity over time, and it would be difficult to establish rules or thresholds for which bikes should be allowed. And even then, it would be impossible to police these rules at the trailhead. Furthermore the presence of ANY motors on trails gives a ton of ammunition to the fanatical anti-bike activists lobbying the officials at pick-your-local-open-space to close the trails to bikes or slow the progress of additional trail openings to bikes.

    I am sorry to folks like Rogercor, but that's life. Keep em on motorized trails. There are tons of people with all sorts of disabilities who can't bike either, its tragic but part of life's journey.

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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    Exactly it is a sport not a competition on every ride for every rider. The vast majority of people on the trails that I ride are not in a competition and could care less what you are riding.
    Again how is your bike so different than mine?
    Yours will go faster, is lighter and has more gears.
    Your bike will outperform mine, mine is not louder than yours so why does it need to be banned?
    It sounds more like you are saying if you are fat, lazy and out of shape you are not allowed on our trails. Well that won't work.
    I don't know anyone out of the 10 ebikers I have ridden with that are fat, lazy and out of shape. All are over 55, recovering from surgery or a bad disease and they are trying to continue what they use to do but can no longer accomplish.
    Embrace these people they are 100% after the same "experience" that you are after out on the trail. I am not talking about the 15 year old with a modified dirt bike that is out riding the bike trails illegally.
    Please go check out an ebike I think once you ride one you will not be near as threatened.
    RC

    The fat, lazy, and out of shape are most welcome on the trails. Not only do I welcome them but I am an active "ambassador" for mountain biking, have a small fleet of inexpensive bikes that I lend to anybody who wants to give it a try, and I offer nothing but encouragement and good-spirits to anybody I encounter on the trail.

    I was fat and out-of-shape after residency training and could barely make it up some hills that I don't even regard as hills nowadays but I didn't resort to a motorcycle.

    I love cycling but I am not a snob about it.

    But motors do not give you the same "experience."

    To repeat, I am not against eBikes. I'm not against motorcycles or ATVs either. Just don't want them on the few non-motorized trails we have around here.

    My bikes are different than yours because they are non-motorized. That is the crucial and non-trivial difference. I would go so far to say the difference is so critical that you really have no business posting on a cycling forum....it would be like my going to a Justin Beiber fan site to lavish praise on the Grateful Dead.

    Nothing's stopping me from doing it and I'm not causing any harm but it would be perplexing to the Beiberites.

    And I have no desire to ride an eBike for the same reason I have no desire to own or ride an ATV. It's not my thing and I'm into cycling, not motorcycling.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    I rode almost everyday from the time I was in high school until I was 40 and got MS.
    My lifestyle was as a clyclist. I had 3 bikes, MTB, road and a home built. I rode around Lake Tahoe, road the sierra trails every summer for 25 years.
    You may not consider me a cyclist but I do.
    What makes me not a cyclist?
    So I am starting to get this, a certain small number of you only want a certain type of "person" on "your" trails. It has nothing to do with the facts.
    We only want bicycles on the trails. Nothing to do with the type of person. Don't try to make into a personal attack or some kind of discrimination thing.

    I understand that you can't ride like you used to but that doesn't mean that the world must be re-arranged to accommodate you. As I get older women in their twenties are finding me less and less attractive but that doesn't mean I have an intrinsic right to date a 28-year-old girl.

    I mean, I can get a hooker or a mistress but it's not the same thing.

  16. #216
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    "That is the crucial and non-trivial difference. I would go so far to say the difference is so critical that you really have no business posting on a cycling forum...."

    Ok....
    I only hope that all of our problems in the world are not dealt with by the manner displayed by this forum. Will not post again.
    RC

  17. #217
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    If they're legal on the trails they're being ridden on then i can't see the problem.

    If i wanted a E-bike, thought they were a reasonable solution and legal then i couldn't care a jot what a few holier than thou cyclists thought.

    What they going to do scowl at me or write in caps on a forum


    Things change, 30 years ago hikers were outraged that many of us took our cycles off-road.
    30 years on there is more often than not a reasonable compromise.

    It will be the same with E-powered craft.
    Some will be cautious and reasonable, others will abuse their rights and cause problems.
    These few will spoil it for the majority of responsible owners and laws be bought in as a result, that's just society looking after itself.

    If it's legal though i wouldn't worry about the arrogant opinion of a few cycling snobs
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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
    If they're legal on the trails they're being ridden on then i can't see the problem.
    I really don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that statement, and speaking for myself that is entirely the point.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogercor View Post
    "That is the crucial and non-trivial difference. I would go so far to say the difference is so critical that you really have no business posting on a cycling forum...."

    Ok....
    I only hope that all of our problems in the world are not dealt with by the manner displayed by this forum. Will not post again.
    RC
    Dealing with problems does not mean that we have to agree with you. Reasonable people may disagree but it does not follow that you are right and I am wrong.

  20. #220
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    For those with health problems. What will you do when you are 10 miles
    out on the trail and your 50 pound E-bike breaks or the battery dies? How
    will you get back? And don't say it won't happen, because it will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    For those with health problems. What will you do when you are 10 miles
    out on the trail and your 50 pound E-bike breaks or the battery dies? How
    will you get back? And don't say it won't happen, because it will.
    Why that's what the search and rescue people are for, isn't it?
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    You may be happy to hear that my dad has kicked cancer's ass. Now he's looking for whoever sent it.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    For those with health problems. What will you do when you are 10 miles
    out on the trail and your 50 pound E-bike breaks or the battery dies? How
    will you get back? And don't say it won't happen, because it will.
    As long as they have already made contingency plans again i don't see that as being a problem.
    Have you come across stranded E-bikers and your ride has been ruined because you stopped and helped them?

    If not then it's pretty much a mute point.

    What happens if one of our frames snap 10 miles into a ride?
    I've had a mate stumble and break his ankle while out hiking in the middle of nowhere.
    Stuff happens and when it does we analyse the situation and do what we can to come up with the best solution.

    Sitting at home trying to come up with scenarios that might happen in a certain way at certain times in certain areas is ridiculous.
    If a E-bike fails the rider will do exactly the same as we do and try and get back home as efficiently as possible.
    No doubt there will be times when SAR are called, but then that's exactly the same case with MTB's and hikers so using that as a negative is pretty dangerous for those of us that like to roam in less populated areas.

    IF there comes a time when E-bikers are making ridiculous amounts of calls to SAR's then that's a problem that will addressed.
    As it is you may as well say "what will happen when pretty fairy's get electrocuted by those nasty batteries and motors" as this is just as much a made up problem.
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  23. #223
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    Electric Bikes on MTB Trails

    Fat lazy out of shape riders allready mtn bike. They simply go to ski slopes and ride up on the lift and ride down.

    E bikes are quiet and innocuous, I have no problem with them on the trail, cause I believe that more people will do better if they get out into nature more.

    Now small motored bikes with gas engines? Leave them at home.

    Like it or not they are coming, might as well embrace it and deal with it over trying to ban them.

    Bill

  24. #224
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    Its real easy. If you have an e-bike and want to ride it on a given trail, contact the park authority/land manager responsible for that trail and ask if e-bikes are permitted. If so, ride on and be happy. If not, respect the rules and ride somewhere else. And if you don't want to ride somewhere else, get together with other e-bikers and lobby for access like everybody else has to do.
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  25. #225
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    Electric Bikes on MTB Trails

    Actually ran into a lady riding one if these bikes in middle run in Delaware. Stopped and talked to her and heard her story. She wants to just ride but being out of shape it wasn't possible, so she is using the boost to get herself up hills. She wasn't bombing the trails, she was a very nice trail user. I have no problem with people like that using the trails also.

    Bill

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossracer View Post
    Actually ran into a lady riding one if these bikes in middle run in Delaware. Stopped and talked to her and heard her story. She wants to just ride but being out of shape it wasn't possible, so she is using the boost to get herself up hills. She wasn't bombing the trails, she was a very nice trail user. I have no problem with people like that using the trails also.

    Bill
    Of course not. But how do you keep the riff-raff out; meaning the 90 percent of eBike riders who look at their bikes as electric motorcycles? Someone commented in an earlier post that he really couldn't do more than 20 MPH on his eBike....but think about that. How often do you ride that fast on a trail. Hell, that's road-bike speed.

    Sure, I can hit that speed on the downhills but generally 12 MPH feels pretty fast on our trails.

    When I ride on the roads people sometimes yell, "Get on the sidewalk." Sidewalks are neither suitable nor safe for a 230 pound guy riding a bike at twenty miles an hour. Likewise, most mountain bike trails are not suitable for carefree riders zipping along at high speed that they didn't have to work for.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossracer View Post
    Fat lazy out of shape riders allready mtn bike. They simply go to ski slopes and ride up on the lift and ride down.

    E bikes are quiet and innocuous, I have no problem with them on the trail, cause I believe that more people will do better if they get out into nature more.

    Now small motored bikes with gas engines? Leave them at home.

    Like it or not they are coming, might as well embrace it and deal with it over trying to ban them.

    Bill
    I've noticed many more "fat lazy out of shape riders" squished in to ill fitting pajama colored spandex and pedaling road bikes on the streets than I see on the lifts or trails, but whatever.

    What ski slopes are you frequenting?

    I've yet to encounter and e-bike on the trail. Not even sure what I'd think. "Cool" I guess. Not like I'd go rat on the rider or anything, but I'd wonder what the local rangers would think. I'm thinking, if a person is physically compromised so much that they can't pedal or maneuver a regular bike, I'm not likely to see one where I ride. Fat, lazy and out of shape are sort of prohibitive (if stereotypical) to techy or aggressive riding.
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  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Of course not. But how do you keep the riff-raff out; meaning the 90 percent of eBike riders who look at their bikes as electric motorcycles? Someone commented in an earlier post that he really couldn't do more than 20 MPH on his eBike....but think about that. How often do you ride that fast on a trail. Hell, that's road-bike speed.

    Sure, I can hit that speed on the downhills but generally 12 MPH feels pretty fast on our trails.

    When I ride on the roads people sometimes yell, "Get on the sidewalk." Sidewalks are neither suitable nor safe for a 230 pound guy riding a bike at twenty miles an hour. Likewise, most mountain bike trails are not suitable for carefree riders zipping along at high speed that they didn't have to work for.
    Always find it strange when people form and express an opinion they have absolutely no experience of.

    Not only are you complaining about a problem you haven't experienced, you're complaining about a problem that might not even exist.
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  29. #229
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    The two best ways to make sure MTB trails are used by MTBers is 1: help build them and 2: ride them. Both allow you to see what is going on and how to manage the issue. Trail workers get the chance to talk to trail users about things like behaviour on the trails and new users fall into the rhythm of the place if they have a pack mentality on show (not "pack" in the ripping you limbs off way).

    If e bikes are an issue, they will be dealt with by the presence of MTB.

  30. #230
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    It is really the bike that is causing problems?.... Or is it the riders with no respect for the trails or other users?

    I ditto that shuttle riders and others who prefer to not work uphill are apt to be as bad or worse behavior than someone that chooses an electric bike.

    I have ridden off road with electric bikes and it was interesting. I managed to keep min front for a few miles uphill on tight singletrack because I am in shape and could corner much smoother and recover my speed.

    In the end the guy who rode the electric bike turned out to be a class a butthole with his attitude and that was my only takeaway issue.... bad person at the core!

  31. #231
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    LOL its all too funny I ride a E bike I was out riding the local trail 96st guy says to me that's a E bike its not allowed on our trails !, I point to the gravel pit across the st I say kid you see that company ??. I am retired from there and I rode these trails on my rock hopper back in the 90s, so my company donated this land for a MT bike park for us to enjoy .And for your info I got hurt badly working there and am now handicapped , I have no strength in my legs I can only stand or walk very short distances . But my desire to ride single track is so strong I just had to ride agene stop and think if the only way you could ride was on a Elec Bike you would too . I go to FL every yr for the supercross and love riding Santos and Alifa river my E bike has changed my life .

  32. #232
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    The guy who shows up on an ebike gets to haul the beer up the hill.

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  33. #233
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    Let us not hate on the E bike , I sold my car just ride a e bike now

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95 View Post
    LOL its all too funny I ride a E bike I was out riding the local trail 96st guy says to me that's a E bike its not allowed on our trails !, I point to the gravel pit across the st I say kid you see that company ??. I am retired from there and I rode these trails on my rock hopper back in the 90s, so my company donated this land for a MT bike park for us to enjoy .And for your info I got hurt badly working there and am now handicapped , I have no strength in my legs I can only stand or walk very short distances . But my desire to ride single track is so strong I just had to ride agene stop and think if the only way you could ride was on a Elec Bike you would too . I go to FL every yr for the supercross and love riding Santos and Alifa river my E bike has changed my life .
    You are a perfect exception for Ebikes. Something ADA related is fine IMHO.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  35. #235
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    Well thank you nice to hear the kind words its been ruff on here lol

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