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  1. #1
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    Ebikes are getting people fit. Good article.

    https://apple.news/Arp1I3HgIT3WC9aFRanZkKA

    Pretty interesting read. The short version is emtbs or ebikes keep riders interested to do more rides, thus not having to go full gas every ride and reach burnout or hit too many walls. I personally donít have this issue with mtbs, but some do. They are a great tool to get people out of the house and riding. I see two major advantages to ebikes.

    1) The overweight or out of shape rider. Gets them back in the game.
    2) The experienced, fit rider. Adds another layer of enjoyment to explore farther and enjoy more trail.

    Iím talking class 1 pedelecs.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Plus they get more people out on the trails...people who would like to be out there but might not have the stamina due to age or injury. It's a potentially large group of people. As the technology and attitudes mature over the coming years, e-bikes would appear to have a bright future.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Plus they get more people out on the trails...people who would like to be out there but might not have the stamina due to age or injury. It's a potentially large group of people. As the technology and attitudes mature over the coming years, e-bikes would appear to have a bright future.
    👍 absolutely. Time is everything.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    They aren't for me, but I am glad my friend has one. Without it he wouldn't be riding and his health wouldn't be improving so quickly. The are currently in the market to buy his wife a townie, whatever gets people out i'm all for. The other advantage for me is when i have friends that come to town, we call the "vacation bikes". They enjoy it and i dont have to take time off my bike just because friends are visiting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fleboz View Post
    They aren't for me, but I am glad my friend has one. Without it he wouldn't be riding and his health wouldn't be improving so quickly. The are currently in the market to buy his wife a townie, whatever gets people out i'm all for. The other advantage for me is when i have friends that come to town, we call the "vacation bikes". They enjoy it and i dont have to take time off my bike just because friends are visiting.
    Right on 👍. We take them on the beach all the time.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Interesting. Ive been seeing them more and more but never understood what the point was. Whats the starting price tag?

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysteve View Post
    Interesting. Ive been seeing them more and more but never understood what the point was. Whats the starting price tag?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Depends if you want to convert an existing bike or buy oem. Also, like everything- quality and thereís junk. Ebike or emtb? The ones Iíve owned are quality production bikes from proven manufacturers with excellent suspension. 4-8k. Not to say you canít find value for less. Iím a bike junkie and my bikes are usually high end. But hey, still way cheaper than my MX motorcycles used to be.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  8. #8
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    Good read

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    Even we are a bit skeptical.

    Sincerely,

    Pokemon Go, New Year's Resolutions, Dr.Oz, and Kirstie A.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysteve View Post
    Interesting. Ive been seeing them more and more but never understood what the point was. Whats the starting price tag?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    I did my conversion for less than $1000. It's so freaking hot in my garage right now that I don't want to finish it tho lol. If you are on a budget you can do it for as little as $600, mine with the battery and hub wheel was around $750, not including zip ties, torque arms, etc.

    I always wanted one since I heard about e-bikes, but the main reason I'm converting it is that I simply do not like the geometry of a 26" bike. It does OK downhill but my 27.5" is better for everything, EVEN road biking. Everything. So I'm like OK I have a backup bike that I ride just to get it out of the garage. It therefore was an excellent candidate for a conversion, so that I have a real reason to ride it now.

    The point for me is that there are a lot of 1000-2000 ft mountains out there within 10 miles of me that are not so easy to pedal up. At all. A lot of loose dirt, steeper sections, etc., and it just turns into an epic ride (and walk) that I don't really have all day for. I've learned there is a big difference between a mountain and a hill, even if their elevation is similar. I can walk/climb an 800 ft hill in less than 45 minutes. A 1000 ft real mountain could take hours. An e-bike will let me climb right up that mountain without spending 1/2 the day doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Plus they get more people out on the trails.
    That's what this sport is missing.

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    Ok, hoping we can keep this thread just a discussion.

    I do not want more people out on the trails where I ride. Just like golfers do not want more people out on the golf course they have to play through, tennis players don't want to have to wait for a court to be available, hunters don't want more hunters in the woods, swimmers would prefer not to have to split lanes, etc. Where you are, maybe there is room for more people on the trails but that's not necessarily true everywhere. Just like ebikes were great in big Chinese cities until there got to be too many.

    But I imagine this article is talking about ebikes on pavement. I'm not surprised that getting some exercise is better than getting none. I'm all for ebikes on pavement and on some trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Ok, hoping we can keep this thread just a discussion.

    I do not want more people out on the trails where I ride. Just like golfers do not want more people out on the golf course they have to play through, tennis players don't want to have to wait for a court to be available, hunters don't want more hunters in the woods, swimmers would prefer not to have to split lanes, etc. Where you are, maybe there is room for more people on the trails but that's not necessarily true everywhere. Just like ebikes were great in big Chinese cities until there got to be too many.

    But I imagine this article is talking about ebikes on pavement. I'm not surprised that getting some exercise is better than getting none. I'm all for ebikes on pavement and on some trails.
    Good points.

    I honestly think that we won't see more people on trails.... All the folks I ride with, are long term riders, who just happen, for whatever reason, to decide to try an ebike.

    They are the same folks, with the same skills. True, we may see new riders try EMTB, but as we all know, it takes a lot of work and skills to get on trails.
    What we may see, just like in Europe, are OHV / Jeep trails closure, and the same trails converted to EMTB / MTB access only. I know a bunch of LM around here in CO that would LOVE to stop jeep access on the land they manage. (Jeep access = pollution, transforming the NF / BLM in shooting gallery, illegal dumping, forest fire... in their word).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Ok, hoping we can keep this thread just a discussion.

    I do not want more people out on the trails where I ride. Just like golfers do not want more people out on the golf course they have to play through, tennis players don't want to have to wait for a court to be available, hunters don't want more hunters in the woods, swimmers would prefer not to have to split lanes, etc. Where you are, maybe there is room for more people on the trails but that's not necessarily true everywhere. Just like ebikes were great in big Chinese cities until there got to be too many.

    But I imagine this article is talking about ebikes on pavement. I'm not surprised that getting some exercise is better than getting none. I'm all for ebikes on pavement and on some trails.
    Where I live, that's a short-sighted view. So many people on this site yammer about access. Over the last seven years here, the more people using the trails, the more grant money is available, more trails get built, more access. And more money gets spent in the surrounding communities. Everybody wins. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then I don't live where you live. It must be a lot different there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    https://apple.news/Arp1I3HgIT3WC9aFRanZkKA

    Pretty interesting read. The short version is emtbs or ebikes keep riders interested to do more rides, thus not having to go full gas every ride and reach burnout or hit too many walls. I personally donít have this issue with mtbs, but some do. They are a great tool to get people out of the house and riding. I see two major advantages to ebikes.

    1) The overweight or out of shape rider. Gets them back in the game.
    2) The experienced, fit rider. Adds another layer of enjoyment to explore farther and enjoy more trail.

    Iím talking class 1 pedelecs.
    You forgot
    3) the injured experienced rider who cannot ride much like he/she used to
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Where I live, that's a short-sighted view. So many people on this site yammer about access. Over the last seven years here, the more people using the trails, the more grant money is available, more trails get built, more access. And more money gets spent in the surrounding communities. Everybody wins. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then I don't live where you live. It must be a lot different there.

    I think there is something to this. The Govt. is ignorant until people start showing up over and over again at the community meetings and demand access. In my city the military even allowed limited access on the edge of their base (although they may take that away soon). So anything is possible. As long as there is no destruction of wilderness area/pristine land, then access is possible if enough people ask for it. It is our country and our land after all. I'm all for preserving the environment but most of these closed areas already have trails on them to begin with, same difference.
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  17. #17
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    I coulda rode longer with chazpat if I had an ebike.

  18. #18
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    Wow! The all-powerful cosmic eBike. Redefining reality, one mind at a time.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Where I live, that's a short-sighted view. So many people on this site yammer about access. Over the last seven years here, the more people using the trails, the more grant money is available, more trails get built, more access. And more money gets spent in the surrounding communities. Everybody wins. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then I don't live where you live. It must be a lot different there.
    Thatís all fine and Groovy until your trails get ďlovedĒ to death.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    You forgot
    3) the injured experienced rider who cannot ride much like he/she used to
    Totally agree. Also days that you are stressed for time, Donít want to go full gas on your Mtb etc..
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoker View Post
    I coulda rode longer with chazpat if I had an ebike.
    No, your battery would have died, then you get left lugging!
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Where I live, that's a short-sighted view. So many people on this site yammer about access. Over the last seven years here, the more people using the trails, the more grant money is available, more trails get built, more access. And more money gets spent in the surrounding communities. Everybody wins. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then I don't live where you live. It must be a lot different there.
    It is here.
    The Guvment doesn't build trails or hand out money to help. Almost everything is built and maintained by volunteers, mainly bikers. Unless the new crop of trail users is willing to get out and work, they just add more work onto the backs of the current volunteer force.

    Just demanding access and saying "I pay taxes" doesn't fly around here; ask any moto/ATV rider. They've been trying it for decades and getting nowhere.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Totally agree. Also days that you are stressed for time, Donít want to go full gas on your Mtb etc..

    A bicycle works fine too. I just go for shorter rides, don't go full gas, etc.....
    I brake for stinkbugs

  24. #24
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    If you lived in a population of 1,000 people and had 15 mtbrs, how many trails would you have versus 100,000 population and thousands of cyclists? More is more! (Given you have land to expand)
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    A bicycle works fine too. I just go for shorter rides, don't go full gas, etc.....
    I concur.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Wow! The all-powerful cosmic eBike. Redefining reality, one mind at a time.
    lol, at least you have a sense of humor about it. Sorry, humour.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    If you lived in a population of 1,000 people and had 15 mtbrs, how many trails would you have versus 100,000 population and thousands of cyclists? More is more! (Given you have land to expand)

    Don't try to use logic on people with fixed opinions. Waste of time. Like the moderator on here that thinks singlespeeds can stroll up steep mountains, and thinks there is absolutely no difference between a 26" and 29" tire, etc. It doesn't matter how much experience and skill they have in riding, they are just plain wrong about some things but will never, ever, listen. It would be too much of a blow to their ego to actually reconsider their opinions.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Don't try to use logic on people with fixed opinions. Waste of time. Like the moderator on here that thinks singlespeeds can stroll up steep mountains, and thinks there is absolutely no difference between a 26" and 29" tire, etc. It doesn't matter how much experience and skill they have in riding, they are just plain wrong about some things but will never, ever, listen. It would be too much of a blow to their ego to actually reconsider their opinions.
    I take it you're talking about SHMF and you are greatly exaggerating.

    check this thread:

    Singlespeed event on the Pinhoti Trail, Ellijay, GA

    I have recently received a number of posts calling me "fast". Maybe I'm fast for a 54 year old weekend warrior. This is largely because I am lightweight with naturally strong legs and good conditioning (I am also a trail runner). This allows me to climb faster than a lot of riders, but not all and especially not true racers, I still get passed plenty. I occasionally ride my SS. That event is near me. But no way I could ride those trails in the mountains the 35 mile route, even on my geared bike. And those guys are going to do it on single speeds and in pretty quick time. Point is, single speeds can certainly be ridden by some where you nor I would be able to manage, just like on a geared bike.

    And no one says there is no difference between 26" and 29". All that has been said is that you can ride a 26" anywhere you can ride a 29". I rode my 26er two days ago, 71 degree head tube angle, mechanical discs brakes, no dropper. My 29er would have been a bit better as these trails had lots of momentum sucking big roots and rocks but my 26er has better tires for this trail so maybe not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  29. #29
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    SHMF imo a very reasonable rider. Certainly understands and has been in the game awhile. His sons a ripper also!
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Thanks fellas - right back at ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    . It doesn't matter how much experience and skill they have in riding, they are just plain wrong about some things but will never, ever, listen. It would be too much of a blow to their ego to actually reconsider their opinions.
    Of course experience matters. And you are once again very very VERY confused between what is an opinion and what is a fact. It's great that you're enthusiastic, but you have a habit of wildly overestimating what it is you think you know. You simply haven't ridden enough places, enough times, on enough different bikes with enough different people to really know what you're talking about. I've been buried in all sorts of biking and building for almost 30 years now; you tend to pick up a few things in that time.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Don't try to use logic on people with fixed opinions. Waste of time. Like the moderator on here that thinks singlespeeds can stroll up steep mountains, and thinks there is absolutely no difference between a 26" and 29" tire, etc. It doesn't matter how much experience and skill they have in riding, they are just plain wrong about some things but will never, ever, listen. It would be too much of a blow to their ego to actually reconsider their opinions.
    Do you think people canít climb steep on a single Speed? Folks around here climb most everything on a single speed.


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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Do you think people canít climb steep on a single Speed? Folks around here climb most everything on a single speed.


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    I will concur. Thereís some serious freaks of nature in Pisgah!
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Thatís all fine and Groovy until your trails get ďlovedĒ to death.
    You build more trails and do more maintenance to accommodate the increased number of riders. Our trails, about 35 miles of XC, are almost entirely built professionally and maintained by local volunteers. We just added about 15 miles on top of the existing 30, got rid of all the two-way, and an additional 25 miles are fully funded and on the docket for construction. Working on spending a $5.4 million grant secured last year. Like I said, your problems may be different than ours.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    If you lived in a population of 1,000 people and had 15 mtbrs, how many trails would you have versus 100,000 population and thousands of cyclists? More is more! (Given you have land to expand)
    The "land to expand" part is the kicker, though. I'd guess that 90% of the folks on MTBR live in a relatively dense metro area of some sort - where land is at a premium, and the opportunities for new trails are very constrained. More riders is *bad* in that situation. Hell, even here in Park City we're essentially built out. We can reconfigure and reroute trails, but the opportunity to build significant new mileage isn't really there anymore.

    If you have somewhere to build, more riders is usually good, though.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The "land to expand" part is the kicker, though. I'd guess that 90% of the folks on MTBR live in a relatively dense metro area of some sort - where land is at a premium, and the opportunities for new trails are very constrained. More riders is *bad* in that situation. Hell, even here in Park City we're essentially built out. We can reconfigure and reroute trails, but the opportunity to build significant new mileage isn't really there anymore.

    If you have somewhere to build, more riders is usually good, though.

    -Walt
    In my experience, it's common that people who live in relatively dense metro areas believe that everybody else does too.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    In my experience, it's common that people who live in relatively dense metro areas believe that everybody else does too.
    Pretty easy to look up, I imagine the US folks on this site line up with the general US population:

    In 2010, a total of 80.7 percent of Americans lived in urban areas, up from 79 percent in 2000.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-...8EQ5AJ20120326


    Actually, I would not be surprised if the percentage of mtbrs who live in urban areas are a higher percentage than the general population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    You build more trails and do more maintenance to accommodate the increased number of riders. Our trails, about 35 miles of XC, are almost entirely built professionally and maintained by local volunteers. We just added about 15 miles on top of the existing 30, got rid of all the two-way, and an additional 25 miles are fully funded and on the docket for construction. Working on spending a $5.4 million grant secured last year. Like I said, your problems may be different than ours.
    Very different Iíd say. I donít live in a dense urban area, but I do live in a place that folks from all over the world flock to, to ride. Thatís the problem, just too many people. And just about all of the riding here is on public land, which ainít easy to build on.

  38. #38
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    Urban != relatively dense metro. He gave Park City, UT as a fringe comparison. I kind of get the idea that the NorCal forum is practically its own separate thing, possibly fitting his metro picture.

    Cuyuna highlights a common human rationalizing habit, but it not only affects people who live in those areas, but humans in general. It's called the recency/frequency illusion. It's what I suspect most generalizations and made-up statistics are based on.

    Back on topic, what is even the purpose of bringing attention to this? Just seems misleading and the the support from the later posts seem recklessly hopeful.

    I'd argue that Americans were developed on the principles of "habit forming". Through how we were raised, from education, to consuming media, our thinking and actions were molded to fit into society. It's wrong to do this and that, but you're fine and making no trouble for others as long as you do this. We were given things to shoot for: friends, a stable income, a nice car, someone to mate with, a comfortable house, to fill the house with a family and typical household belongings, to celebrate traditions like weddings, funerals, coming of age celebrations (e.g. birthdays, graduation), to enjoy freedom through passtimes (e.g. sports, craft hobbies), etc... I suspect that the ones that do bikes long term as adults tend to be the ones who had considerably good experiences as a kid, and have no expectations that just anyone picks it up. Some people did basketball or soccer as a kid, or video games, and that becomes their "thing" to come back to as an adult. Unless the ebike thing forms healthy habits, I'm going to side with the New Years Resolution skeptical guy.

    I read ebikes, not emtbs. In densely populated areas, like Japanese cities, bikes are sort of in a purgatory of regulation. Common public metro transportation solutions are being put into place, to address the issues with traffic saturation. Due to traffic issues, there were new safety laws added to bikes: no side-by-side riding, no cellphone use while riding, no riding while intoxicated, no riding with headphones in both ears, etc. It's reasonable to expect this with traffic here too. People are just being preemptive about it, since they have a strong concern.

    What we need is a community that gives back, rather than just takes and takes and treats others as outsiders. Hikers were against bikers with similar arguments, but bikes have fully invaded the trails. There's a huge hiking meetup group that I checked out, but only an extremely small % of people actually show up, many of them who are also mtbers. I used to trail run and would be in a nice peaceful rhythm, then end up jumping up and off the trail when startled by mtbers approaching from behind. I just joined the mtbers, rather than fight it. Mtb's fun, but I still have my trail running shoes and dislike the cost of the complex mtb gear setup (bike, helmet, clothes, hydration, tools, spares, backcountry kits (first aid), bike rack, bike storage, maintenance, etc.). I'd go trail run in a heartbeat if someone invited me to go along with 'em, but there just seems to be less resistance to jump on a bike and head outdoors from my doorstep (perhaps picking up something on the way back), rather than driving to a trailhead late afternoon when the mtn lions are active (twilight) or in the morning when the rattlesnakes are out sunbathing. I'm somewhat glad that I set an arbitrarily low budget for getting into mtb, but eventually am replacing everything with better quality stuff. Just seemed like I had nothing to give back at least financially, just picking up litter only to see it come back weeks later, and hearing bikers blame hikers for it when asking if they know who's doing it. I see mtbers tossing fruit peels and cores saying it decomposes, but hikers do the same... it's the person, not their gear or discipline. If they weren't stressed to their limit and welcomed, instead of scrutinized, I imagine they'd be more considerate and willing to pay back the hospitality given. Maybe if I instead told the mtbers that I picked up the trash and saw it come back, that I'd appreciate if they let me know if they see who's doing it, rather than word it like I did before, things would be cooler.

    Basically, I'm open to emtbs, but I doubt it's a silver bullet to any problems. Less resistance to get on and ride, for sure, but people have strong excuses for everything, like it's too hot out or the timing isn't right. I simply see it as a viable alternative to other bikes in the same price range. I know if I were considering a 4200 Spec comp carbon bike, I'd also be comparing the Turbo Levo in the same price range (4500). Basically, it's carbon vs motor, and I'm thinking the motor wins out (if only it had something better than a Reba). Reading up on the USFS/BLM bans on them, one just interpreted it as a motor vehicle and applied the same rules to them, while the other adopted the decision for consistency. I've seen *nothing* rational from opposition, that doesn't apply to non-motorized mtb as well. Same goes for the bicycle access in wilderness setbacks, with opposition saying that letting human-powered wheeled vehicles will lead to access to other things, all the way to what they fear, the heavy equipment ruining their preservation efforts. Right now, emtb access and the stupid political side is keeping from even bothering... I'm trying to not buying any bike stuff unless it's a versatile emtb with made-to-last design, as opposed to weight weenie race stuff, something that I'd not only ride on the trails, but do all my riding on, and replacing some of the shuttling and shorter transportation needs. Maybe I'll pay more attention to the shops I always drive by to get to my destination... it seems like a shame that they're hidden from view by a parking lot, and traffic zooms by at 30-45 mph without getting much a glance besides someone maybe reading the sign. The money I save on fuel can perhaps go towards creating a sort of communal bond... hopeful thinking, but I'm already pretty big on commuting by bike, just on a cheap beater taking the same bike-safe route, not really adventuring beyond it. There's the quote: "life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."

    Sorry for the long rant, but I've held it in for a while. Really been trying to avoid these overly political threads, where a few people try to decide rules for a whole...

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    I live in a rural area, have chosen to live in rural areas since leaving home after high school.

    I rarely encounter people on the trails unless I ride in a tourist area (Tahoe).

    What I appreciate most about my local trails is how the difficulty limits access, steep, technical, remote.

    I donít want more riders on the trails, but ebikers dont tend to ride technical stuff, so Iím not that worried.
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    Here is my experience. I went to an e fat bike because of age and running up against some health limits. I went from 1400 miles a year with a split of 60% single track 40% paved to 5,000 miles a year with a split of 5% single track, 20% fire roads/gravel and 75% pavement. A e bike makes pavement and gravel far more enjoyable.

    What I found out was that only about 10% of a ride does 90% of wiping you out and decreasing the enjoyment. The e bike essentially wipes out that 10% making it possible to ride much longer. My fitness level is higher with the e bike.

    I have built e bikes for friends who are over 80 and the transformation of how they feel about themselves is nothing short of spectacular. I am currently building one for my mother who is over 90.

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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The "land to expand" part is the kicker, though. I'd guess that 90% of the folks on MTBR live in a relatively dense metro area of some sort - where land is at a premium, and the opportunities for new trails are very constrained. More riders is *bad* in that situation. Hell, even here in Park City we're essentially built out. We can reconfigure and reroute trails, but the opportunity to build significant new mileage isn't really there anymore.

    If you have somewhere to build, more riders is usually good, though.

    -Walt
    Admittedly, (and fortunately) I canít relate. Around here, those dense urban mountain bikers often pack up and drive 2-3 hours or more to ride here and other such areas, presumably to escape the overcrowded and poorly maintained ďtrailsĒ that ď90% of the folks on MTBRĒ have to ride. We do have ďland to expandĒ and the growing influx of dense urban mountain bikers is a big part of the reason why we do expand. That increasing number of riders is a great thing for my friends and me, who benefit from increasingly excellent mountain biking and a growing supporting infrastructure that we can actually ride to rather than pack up for. Yíall are welcome to visit anytime. You might actually see some other mountain bikers on the trails, although the number of riders is mostly a problem when you stop somewhere on the trails to get lunch and one of the local craft beers. But you wonít have to dodge horses, hikers, or dogs, (although I did almost hit a porcupine yesterday). And feel free to bring your e-bike.
    Last edited by Cuyuna; 07-29-2018 at 07:12 AM.

  42. #42
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    "I went to an e fat bike because of age and running up against some health limits."

    Take this with a grain of salt because after several attempts to like fad bikes I found them lacking in all my required departments. Primarily their increased rolling resistance at the low psi they are most effective at for traction and front end steering due to increased contact patch at low psi creating issues in regards to self steering. But I fail to see any reason why age or health reasons has anything to do with it.

    "An e bike makes pavement and gravel far more enjoyable."

    While I agree with this pretty much wholeheartedly after years of primarily mtb riding on my e drop bar bikes I prefer a 40-45c tire on an i25 rim run tubeless at 35psi +/- for this type of riding as well as light trail work and have ridden plenty of sandy routes also.

    Ebikes are getting people fit. Good article.-img_5126.jpg

    And I'm no spring chicken btw. YMMV of course.
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    Bigwheel my health issue is heart rate. I am 63 yo and my VO max is right around 180. Parking lot heart rate is usually just north of 100. On a decent mountain bike I push over 145 within the first quarter mile. I am not in bad physical shape.

    I wanted a fat bike for snow and sand but knew that the extra work and lacking in other requirements, would be too much. The e power takes away almost all of the lacking requirements and makes the bike feel light.

    I went through three tires before I got one I liked. The bike came with Maxxis Minions 26 X 4.8. Not the best in snow and more noise and rolling resistance than I wanted. Not bad for understeering at low pressure. The next tire I tried was Vee Tire Mission Command 26x 4.8 and they had higher rolling resistance, better noise and unacceptable understeering. Got a large diameter stick through the Missions within the first 500 miles and went to Schwalbe Jumbo Jims 26 X4.8 Snake Skin. The Jumbo Jims set up tubeless take a lot of weight out of the wheels, have very low rolling resistance and great understeer. Taking the weight out of the wheels made the bike feel entirely different. The rolling resistance is very low, noise is still to high and they handle snow ok. Very happy with them. I can pedal the bike at 14 mph on flat without assistance. Wind resistance becomes an issue about 2 mph sooner than my FS S-works Stumpy.

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    This sport doesn't need more people on the trails. It need more responsible caretakers of the resources we have. Mountain biking isn't about recruiting masses of people to ride through the woods. It's about going out alone or a bunch of friends and enjoying the primitive beauty of nature. The last thing the sports needs is a bunch of lazy hippies riding up and down the trails all day long because they never get tired.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    This sport doesn't need more people on the trails. It need more responsible caretakers of the resources we have. Mountain biking isn't about recruiting masses of people to ride through the woods. It's about going out alone or a bunch of friends and enjoying the primitive beauty of nature. The last thing the sports needs is a bunch of lazy hippies riding up and down the trails all day long because they never get tired.
    "Primitive beauty of nature", LMAO. At least 95% of riding, even in Colorado where I live, is done on pre-built, maintained trails within a few miles of a nearby town, accompanied by tons of other people. Even the "primitive" trails are maintained, and have plenty of people on them these days. That goes triple for the MTB meccas like Crested Butte, Fruita and Moab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    This sport doesn't need more people on the trails. It need more responsible caretakers of the resources we have. Mountain biking isn't about recruiting masses of people to ride through the woods. It's about going out alone or a bunch of friends and enjoying the primitive beauty of nature. The last thing the sports needs is a bunch of lazy hippies riding up and down the trails all day long because they never get tired.
    Buncha damn lazy hippies! This lazy hippie thinks this is a dumb azz post. If I get new friends into riding, thatís a bad thing?
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    If I get new friends into riding, thatís a bad thing?




    Depends. Some trail networks are saturated. Some don't get enough maintenance. And others have almost no traffic. New riders doesn't mean the trails will get new stewards or even new volunteers to help maintain them unfortunately. So, it depends.
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    It's nice if people get excercise.

    I've yet to meet any rider who wants more people on their favorite trails unless they're very lonely, or make money off of it somehow. We've edging into too many users territory here, although it's far worse elsewhere on the front range.

    And, be careful what you wish for, I just spent a couple of weekends in Crested Butte, and it's so crowded, that trailheads are overflowing and cars are stuffed everywhere you can get reasonably near them. Having ridden there since 1985, it's sad to see and unpleasant to experience.

    It kind of reminded me of any major ski area on a powder day.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post

    And, be careful what you wish for, I just spent a couple of weekends in Crested Butte, and it's so crowded, that trailheads are overflowing and cars are stuffed everywhere you can get reasonably near them.
    Glentress is like that and they are expanding it! The people who run it are only looking at the money.

  50. #50
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    From what my retailer friends tell me, bike sales arenít exactly exploding. At least not in the south east or ny region. Maybe online?
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    "And, be careful what you wish for," a little strange coming from a moderator on a site that encourages people to get out on the trails. And also why I moved out of the red color state

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleboz View Post
    "And, be careful what you wish for," a little strange coming from a moderator on a site that encourages people to get out on the trails. And also why I moved out of the red color state


    Moderators can and do have their own opinions on matters.
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    Agreed and so can I.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    From what my retailer friends tell me, bike sales arenít exactly exploding. At least not in the south east or ny region. Maybe online?



    E-bikes are the hail Mary pass for some companies, watch for it.
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  55. #55
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    Mountain biking isn't a hobby. It's not something that you do...it's something that you are. It's...it's a way of life, a calling, a higher purpose. And only the enlightened are entitled to enjoy it.



    I get that some people do feel that way, but the self-righteous sanctimonious attitude that goes along so closely is really almost amusing. Especially the predictability, and usually the same 6 or 8 posters.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Öbut then I don't live where you live. It must be a lot different there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    ÖLike I said, your problems may be different than ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Mountain biking isn't a hobby. It's not something that you do...it's something that you are. It's...it's a way of life, a calling, a higher purpose. And only the enlightened are entitled to enjoy it.



    I get that some people do feel that way, but the self-righteous sanctimonious attitude that goes along so closely is really almost amusing. Especially the predictability, and usually the same 6 or 8 posters.
    Talk about predictable. Broken record.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Talk about predictable. Broken record.

    *yawn*

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    Quote Originally Posted by fleboz View Post
    "And, be careful what you wish for," a little strange coming from a moderator on a site that encourages people to get out on the trails. And also why I moved out of the red color state
    All my moderator job entails is keeping things civil and killing korean spam in the suspension forum, which has taken roughly 20 minutes of my time over the past year. We're not employees, or devotees of some vision that we receive in meetings with corporate. I'm just some dude who can click a button and make spam go away.

    I'd be personally could care less if the bike industry shrank by half, or if people decided that rollerblading was a much better use of their outdoor time. Less riders on my trails? I wouldn't weep, I've been there and it was good.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleboz View Post
    "And, be careful what you wish for," a little strange coming from a moderator on a site that encourages people to get out on the trails. And also why I moved out of the red color state

    What I've noticed, and this applies to a lot more than mountain biking, is that red states have less laws in general, which means that for better or worse it's more open to biking, including e-biking. Again, in general. I supposedly live in a Blue state of California, but I live right next to a very red area in my county, and there are basically no rangers enforcing anything on the trails. In fact it's pretty scary because people shoot guns right off the highway where I park to go ride. No regulations, remember...

    If I go to a more blue part of the county, then there are more regulations, rangers, etc. When I first heard the phrase "All politics is local" I didn't understand what it meant. I understand now, it's amazing how local it can be for regulations.
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    I have reached the "get off my lawn" stage of life. As such, I couldn't care less if people are riding more or if the sport is growing. In fact, I prefer fewer people on the trails.

    Thus this article highlights a net negative for me.

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    I'm just another old grouch like Harry, but I also have zero interest in "growing the sport" or adding users to the trail systems I ride. Hell, I make a living in the bike industry and I don't care if it grows or not.

    I quit surfing (which, to be fair, I sucked at) long ago because it got so crowded everywhere that it wasn't fun anymore. The same thing can happen to popular mountain bike spots, and has in many places.

    -Walt

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    i wasn't referring to politics. Colorados name origin is Spanish meaning "colored red".
    Walt-I was saying that in jest. No offense intended. I moved out because of the growth and will have to move again at some point.

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    Cars get people fit too!

    Just about every gym in the country have big parking lots where the people who drive to the gym to get fit can park.

    I love when people say that it allows the cripples, the unfit, the unwashed masses to get out there as a justification for their own laziness in not being able to pedal a real bike anymore.

    For most people it is just one step closer to a cane which is one step closer to a walker which is one step closer to a wheelchair, which is one step closer to a coffin!

    Hey I have dabbled with e-bikes and even have one that I don't bother using after the initial curiosity wore off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    I love when people say that it allows the cripples, the unfit, the unwashed masses to get out there as a justification for their own laziness in not being able to pedal a real bike anymore.
    This is a very nieve position to take. Speaking from the school of hard knocks I did take your same position 40 years ago.

    I married a nice young smart woman 40 years ago. Little did I know that she was delt a bad genetic hand. She has endured more than 50 hours of orthopedic surgeries. She had one third of her back replaced, one hip, both knees and both feet completely fused except the ankle joint. She has no proprioception and little exteroception. Her balance is not natural and is entirely learned. She cannot balance on one foot even while sitting on a bike. Her gait is poor and she walks with a cane.

    She can ride an e bike but not a regular bike. She cannot get a regular bike up to enough speed to balance and get her other foot onto the pedal. She cannot get into or out a tricycle. Toddlers and dogs scare the hell out of her. She has trouble sensing where the bike will stop for a cross road.
    Is she lazy and dumb? Hardly, she should be in that coffin but instead is IT manager in a fortune 500 company.

    Me I am totally opposite. I am a top level alpine skier with a high level of natural coordination and balance. I had a very tough time trying to understand my wife's physical limitations. I had to throw out everything I believed to be true about fitness in order to help her.

    I am still quite fit enough to ride a regular bike but choose the e bike, not because I am lazy its because I have an active life other than biking I need energy for.

    I invent and build things. If you can dream it I can build it. I spend my time helping those poor souls whom can no longer ride a regular bike to stay out of that coffin. I had to get my head out of my ass in order to be effective. The personal rewards have been beyond my wildest dreams from 40 years ago.

    I had your same attitude 40 years ago. I certainly never envisioned I would be helping the physically downtrodden poor slobs and feeling fulfilled doing it. I can't in all honesty ridicule you and then look in the mirror because "There by the grace of god go I. "

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Cars get people fit too!

    Just about every gym in the country have big parking lots where the people who drive to the gym to get fit can park.

    I love when people say that it allows the cripples, the unfit, the unwashed masses to get out there as a justification for their own laziness in not being able to pedal a real bike anymore.

    For most people it is just one step closer to a cane which is one step closer to a walker which is one step closer to a wheelchair, which is one step closer to a coffin!

    Hey I have dabbled with e-bikes and even have one that I don't bother using after the initial curiosity wore off.
    Ah yes, the lazy argument... You need something better than this. Turn the bike off and ride it. See how many watts your putting out now!
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Ah yes, the lazy argument... You need something better than this. Turn the bike off and ride it. See how many watts your putting out now!


    Right.....the argument that ebikes are more of a workout when you rise them with the motor turned off....because we all know that ebike riders do that all the time.
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    My point wasn't that e-bikes don't have their place for some people, but that many use them as an excuse for their own laziness. Sorry to hear about the one posters wife who has a myriad of issues. Props to her for not giving up.

    Hey I am 65, had heart surgery when I was in 7th grade, had an eye removed due to cancer, am not genetically gifted like many but I have done many epic multi week long bikepacking rides. I ride as much as I can and leave my car at home as much as possible.

    My wife is 62 and a type one diabetic. She rides a ton too. Most of her friends do little exercise, drink wine and eat shit food and wonder why they have so many problems. If she had their lifestyle she would probably be dead by now or suffering from numerous complications.

    If people want to get in shape the first place to look is your diet. If you have a shit diet and are overweight then an e-bike ain't going to save you.

    The average american treats their possessions a lot better than they do their bodies.

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    Some "food" for thought: https://health.usnews.com/health-new...habit-showdown

    Of course both diet and exercise are important. Some diet coaches believe that you need to get your diet squared away before you begin an exercise regimen.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Right.....the argument that ebikes are more of a workout when you rise them with the motor turned off....because we all know that ebike riders do that all the time.
    I do.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Some "food" for thought: https://health.usnews.com/health-new...habit-showdown

    Of course both diet and exercise are important. Some diet coaches believe that you need to get your diet squared away before you begin an exercise regimen.
    I agree 100% if thatís the agenda the riders after. I donít ride any bicycle for exercise. Idc my ebike, road, Mtb, eroad, fixie. The exercise is a bonus of being outdoors ripping.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Some "food" for thought: https://health.usnews.com/health-new...habit-showdown

    Of course both diet and exercise are important. Some diet coaches believe that you need to get your diet squared away before you begin an exercise regimen.




    Yes, you can't out run/ride a crappy diet.
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    🥓☕️🍺🍕 do these count?
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    What a ludicrous thread. If eBikes are so wonderful then why are their users always so desperate for affirmation and reassurance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    What a ludicrous thread. If eBikes are so wonderful then why are their users always so desperate for affirmation and reassurance?




    Human nature, just look at all the "did I buy the right bike" threads. Most people want, need affirmation that they made a good decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    I agree 100% if thatís the agenda the riders after. I donít ride any bicycle for exercise. Idc my ebike, road, Mtb, eroad, fixie. The exercise is a bonus of being outdoors ripping.
    100%

    **** the fitness police!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierreR View Post
    This is a very nieve position to take. Speaking from the school of hard knocks I did take your same position 40 years ago.

    I married a nice young smart woman 40 years ago. Little did I know that she was delt a bad genetic hand. She has endured more than 50 hours of orthopedic surgeries. She had one third of her back replaced, one hip, both knees and both feet completely fused except the ankle joint. She has no proprioception and little exteroception. Her balance is not natural and is entirely learned. She cannot balance on one foot even while sitting on a bike. Her gait is poor and she walks with a cane.

    She can ride an e bike but not a regular bike. She cannot get a regular bike up to enough speed to balance and get her other foot onto the pedal. She cannot get into or out a tricycle. Toddlers and dogs scare the hell out of her. She has trouble sensing where the bike will stop for a cross road.
    Is she lazy and dumb? Hardly, she should be in that coffin but instead is IT manager in a fortune 500 company.

    Me I am totally opposite. I am a top level alpine skier with a high level of natural coordination and balance. I had a very tough time trying to understand my wife's physical limitations. I had to throw out everything I believed to be true about fitness in order to help her.

    I am still quite fit enough to ride a regular bike but choose the e bike, not because I am lazy its because I have an active life other than biking I need energy for.

    I invent and build things. If you can dream it I can build it. I spend my time helping those poor souls whom can no longer ride a regular bike to stay out of that coffin. I had to get my head out of my ass in order to be effective. The personal rewards have been beyond my wildest dreams from 40 years ago.

    I had your same attitude 40 years ago. I certainly never envisioned I would be helping the physically downtrodden poor slobs and feeling fulfilled doing it. I can't in all honesty ridicule you and then look in the mirror because "There by the grace of god go I. "
    Much respect for your wife. No one here is against the disabled riding ebikes. I have to ask, is she riding trails though? I would think her lack of balance would mean she needs to stick to smoother/leveler surfaces. I think everyone here is fine with ebikes on pavement.

    Quote Originally Posted by PierreR View Post
    I am still quite fit enough to ride a regular bike but choose the e bike, not because I am lazy its because I have an active life other than biking I need energy for.
    Yeah, the rest of us have active lives other than biking we need energy for as well. Not sure what makes you any different in that regards. What are you doing that requires so much more energy than the rest of us? I find bike riding conditions me to be able to do more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    肋☕️ do these count?
    I don't know, send us a full body selfie.

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    No thanks.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    I don't know, send us a full body selfie.
    Ok, if you insist.
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    Ebikes are getting people fit. Good article.

    It really hacks me of all this "ebikes are for lazy people". I've been a keen mtb cyclist since late 80s. However, In the last 3 years I've had 80% of my left lung removed, and 20% of my right lung removed. Oh and 10" of my bowel. All due to cancer. Throughout my 3 lung operations what kept me going was getting out on my MTB again. The last operation left me struggling to cycle uphill and made MTB so much of a struggle I gave up. I bought a e MTB last month and it has allowed me to get out o the trails again. I ride it with the minimum level assist I can get away with, and then ride the downhills like I used to do. I can now ride without assist on most gentle gradients and get a really good workout.

    So for those ebike haters, don't knock It. One day you might need an ebike to continue to do the thing you love doing.


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  81. #81
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    No one grudges eBikes in the hands of people who have physical problems but there is no way that user group explains the huge leap in sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
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    Ok, if you insist.
    What happens when you take off the bungee cords at night??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    No one grudges eBikes in the hands of people who have physical problems but there is no way that user group explains the huge leap in sales.


    How many pedal bikes get bought and ridden once or twice? I would expect that once the novelty wears off many emotorbikes will suffer the same fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    How many pedal bikes get bought and ridden once or twice? I would expect that once the novelty wears off many emotorbikes will suffer the same fate.
    I agree. Same as weight benches, multi gyms, ab rollers, metal detectors. The list goes on. However my point was that we will all get older, some will get injuries, others will get medical conditions. We can't predict what the future holds for us. Hopefully most will have a healthy and injury free life.

    So why campaign to have enablers (class 1 ebikes ) for those of us less fortunate, banned from the trails, and deny many the freedom to enjoy life ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopotomus View Post
    I agree. Same as weight benches, multi gyms, ab rollers, metal detectors. The list goes on. However my point was that we will all get older, some will get injuries, others will get medical conditions. We can't predict what the future holds for us. Hopefully most will have a healthy and injury free life.

    So why campaign to have enablers (class 1 ebikes ) for those of us less fortunate, banned from the trails, and deny many the freedom to enjoy life ?


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    I have yet to see even the most staunch opposers to eBikes on the trails villainize anyone with a disability that is using one because it is the only way they can get on a bike due to said disability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Ok, hoping we can keep this thread just a discussion.

    I do not want more people out on the trails where I ride. Just like golfers do not want more people out on the golf course they have to play through, tennis players don't want to have to wait for a court to be available, hunters don't want more hunters in the woods, swimmers would prefer not to have to split lanes, etc. Where you are, maybe there is room for more people on the trails but that's not necessarily true everywhere. Just like ebikes were great in big Chinese cities until there got to be too many.

    But I imagine this article is talking about ebikes on pavement. I'm not surprised that getting some exercise is better than getting none. I'm all for ebikes on pavement and on some trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Ok, hoping we can keep this thread just a discussion.

    I do not want more people out on the trails where I ride. Just like golfers do not want more people out on the golf course they have to play through, tennis players don't want to have to wait for a court to be available, hunters don't want more hunters in the woods, swimmers would prefer not to have to split lanes, etc. Where you are, maybe there is room for more people on the trails but that's not necessarily true everywhere. Just like ebikes were great in big Chinese cities until there got to be too many.

    But I imagine this article is talking about ebikes on pavement. I'm not surprised that getting some exercise is better than getting none. I'm all for ebikes on pavement and on some trails.
    I'm curious what areas do you ride that you find too many other riders? Even Demo forest on a Saturday doesn't have litterally dozens of people passing me every minute. I get that we don't want too many people on the trails but how many is too much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopotomus View Post

    So why campaign to have enablers (class 1 ebikes ) for those of us less fortunate, banned from the trails, and deny many the freedom to enjoy life ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




    This isn't an access discussion, feel free to start an access thread of your own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    This isn't an access discussion, feel free to start an access thread of your own.
    Sorry, lifebehindbars, didn't mean to steer it in that direction.


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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopotomus View Post
    Sorry, lifebehindbars, didn't mean to steer it in that direction.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantastic79 View Post
    I'm curious what areas do you ride that you find too many other riders? Even Demo forest on a Saturday doesn't have litterally dozens of people passing me every minute. I get that we don't want too many people on the trails but how many is too much?
    Blanket's Creek, metro Atlanta. And I didn't say there are too many riders. I've said in the past that despite a lot of riders, it works surprisingly well but throw in a large number of riders from a new user group on faster moving vehicles and there will be issues.

    Where is Demo forest?! You do realize that this is an international website, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    What happens when you take off the bungee cords at night??
    I donít ever!
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    How many pedal bikes get bought and ridden once or twice? I would expect that once the novelty wears off many emotorbikes will suffer the same fate.
    Yes, I think so. I hope so! Most people can't maintain a regular bike so they'll have conniptions when their eBike goes cabluey. Especially if it does it in the wild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    they'll have conniptions when their eBike goes cabluey.
    There's a phrase to remember
    What a perfect waste of time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Yes, I think so. I hope so! Most people can't maintain a regular bike so they'll have conniptions when their eBike goes cabluey. Especially if it does it in the wild.
    I think itís the regular bike thatís going to be shelved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    I think itís the regular bike thatís going to be shelved.
    You may be right, most people favor the easier option. I just can't get onboard with something that will make Americans get even less exercise than the small amount so many already get, we have a growing epidemic of unhealthiness in this country and I don't buy that most ebikers will get as much exercise as someone on a regular bike.

    One of my coworkers is looking at buying a Segway. Though not obese, he is chunky.

    EDIT: he's now riding around our office on a hoverboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  96. #96
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    Meh, I worry about my family and myself. Whatever other folks do or donít do, I really donít care.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    No one here is against the disabled riding ebikes.


    Everywhere ebikes are treated differently then bikes and bikes are treated differently then hikers, the disabled/unfit are kept from enjoying the outdoors and exercising. Is MTBR at a consensus that ebikes should be treated as regular bikes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Everywhere ebikes are treated differently then bikes and bikes are treated differently then hikers, the disabled/unfit are kept from enjoying the outdoors and exercising. Is MTBR at a consensus that ebikes should be treated as regular bikes?
    I think the consensus is that disabled should be able to use e-bikes as OPDMDs under the ADA act. Which they already are in non-federally managed trail systems. I would imagine most have no problem with extending that exemption to federal lands; I know I don't. Of course, being 'unfit' is NOT a qualifying disability.

    Other consensus is that it the whole disability access issue is nothing but a red herring, usually brought up by people lacking the knowledge of the laws already in place covering it.
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    I have to laugh at all those that are so worried about the handicapped and disabled and using that as an excuse in their argument for unfettered access to the wild.

    I would bet most e-bike sales are not to that group of people but to people who want the easy way out.

    What ever happened to people actually having to work to get out there??

    E-bikes aren't the answer to getting people in shape.

    I also know that e=bikes and batteries will become more powerful and with more range and before you know it they will look like bicycles but have the power of a small motorcycle.

    Then people will mod the shit out of them to take a "legal" e-bike and make it more powerful.

    Like Edward Abbey said, let the hikers, bicyclists, and equestrians in. Get rid of the visitor centers, gift shops and bullshit that is destroying our national treasures. Make people work for something for a change.

    Next thing you know they will be putting chairlifts up Everest so all those poor cripple people can enjoy it too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Next thing you know they will be putting chairlifts up Everest so all those poor cripple people can enjoy it too!
    "Cripple" people have climbed Everest a number of times.

    Have you?
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