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  1. #1
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    x.9 type 2 derailleur problems

    Hey guys i installed my SRAM x.9 rear derailleur type 2 with all new 10 speed gear cassette 11-36, chain, and front 34T ring i was having trouble after about a month on the new setup i noticed that there was a strange noise coming from the bike while pedals in the low gear when i put the bike was in the stand i noticed that it was also having a hard time dropped from the low gear (36) to the next gear down, its also having trouble dropping down from the second to last high gear to the highest gear (11) cable tension would help a little but the B screw seemed to help the most but i could never get it perfect and today after pulling the chain i noticed the top pulley was completely worn out already! does anyone have some insight on this?

    derailleur to close to cassette?

    chain line issue?

    to much tension from type 2 system?

    installer error?





  2. #2
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    Don't know anything about type two's, but that derailleur looks way too folded forward and stretched out for being on the big ring in back. Chain too short?

    edit* after looking at the photo again, something seems totally screwed up. To me the hangar even looks funny and the upper jockey wheel is waay too close to the cassette.

  3. #3
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    I was messing with the b screw in that picture I wanted to show you guys the setup the chain is the correct length it has about another 1" the derailleur can swing up. The suspension bottomed out completely

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar187 View Post
    I was messing with the b screw in that picture I wanted to show you guys the setup the chain is the correct length it has about another 1" the derailleur can swing up. The suspension bottomed out completely
    Not shifting off the big cog easily is one of the symptoms of a too short chain.

    I would add a link (at least) and adjust the B-screw.
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  5. #5
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    I have the exact set up as you and have the exact same problem. Tell you what, I've about had it with sram & about ready to go back to shimano. Already switched to servo wave brakes and they blow away avid cr's. Pedals- shimano, cassette , no contest shimano etc. I also have had 2 model years in row x9 rear derailleurs where it was impossible to adjust either the H or L screw with out it bottoming out on the other rendering it useless.

    Having played with the chain length I don't beleive it to be a factor (the upper pulley runs to close to the cogs despite chain length or b-screw tension). In a nut shell, the derallieur action between the 13t cog & 32t cog is inaccurate. You can NOT tune the derallieur to run true on both the 13t cog & the 32t cog simultaneously & have to choose one or the other. On a positive note I will say there is zero chain slap.


    Been tuning derallieurs for 20+ years and it is not rocket science. If anybody else has any insight into the issue I'm all ears.

  6. #6
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    i tired a new chain and that sure wasnt it! I took it to a shop they sure couldnt do it!

    Hey big JC thanks for chiming in! It is complete BS that this wasn't corrected before the derailleur was put into production. I called SRAM and they are warranting it. I am kinda glad that im not the only one having issues. I am also fed up with the new SRAM stuff i had new XO brakes they are ready failed i am now on to XT brakes they are the bees knees! I put all my old X9 9speed stuff on it is so nice how the shifter feels so much lighter and it responds instantly! I will agree to the face that there was zero chain slap!

  7. #7
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    My X.0 Type 2 has what seems to be a similar issue.

    There is an audible clicking or knocking sound on initial suspension compression. It seems to be coming from the clutch one-way mechanism. I can see the pulley cage move a few mm exactly when the suspension starts to cycle. It started in lower gears, and has worsened so that it doesn’t matter which gear it is in.

    As part of diagnosing, I took off my shock to cycle the suspension and observe everything. I have my chain length set so the r. derailleur still has some swing left at full travel in "big-big" with my chainguide. I have no shifting, guide, or tension issues. There is just a lurch in the cage/ clutch rotation. The knock sounds becomes worse over time as well.

    I've used one-way needle bearings at work (high end R/C race cars) that exhibited this behavior when they were undersized for the application. They work intermittently… very similarly to how by Type 2 action is working.

  8. #8
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    I have been thinking of upgrading to this RD, it seems like a good thing to hold off a little longer and do more reading. I hope this problem is not widespread as I really like the low chain slap everyone brags about with this item.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    Don't know anything about type two's, but that derailleur looks way too folded forward and stretched out for being on the big ring in back. Chain too short?

    edit* after looking at the photo again, something seems totally screwed up. To me the hangar even looks funny and the upper jockey wheel is way too close to the cassette.
    actually it looks too far away or just about right.. it should be around 6mm tooth of cassette to tooth of jockey wheel unless they changed that with the new clutch units

    the way that jockey wheel is worn it looks to me that the hanger is slightly bent (if you notice the angle worn into the side of the tooth it says the chain is sliding off the side not off just the top) Also having the B screw set too far away the top edge of the jockey wheel tooth will wear in a "shark fin" like that because the chain isn't leaving the wheel smoothly and is using less of them to guide the chain onto the cassette.. closer to the cassette give the chain more wrap around the jockey, more teeth doing the same job..

    the chain does look a tad short ... with a guide like that the chain should have at least 2-4 extra links..
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  10. #10
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    Update:

    After talking to SRAM and shop handling my warranty for the knocking issue, it seems the X.0 medium cage w/ the type 2 clutch is only rated at a 35T capacity. Their non-type 2 medium is usually 37T.

    I'm running a 24/36 with an 11-36 cassette which needs 37T (which their older medium cages could handle)...

    Short version is that they are sending me a long cage and I would expect them to update their tech specs shortly if that truly is the issue. I'll report back once installed.

    Side note: The XTR shadow plus medium cage and shifter I'm using in the meantime has zero issues with everything else being identical.

  11. #11
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    How is the XTR RD working perfectly with SRAM shifters? That surprises me.

    Anyway... about the main issue of chainwrap capacity. The SRAM documentation online is correct. There is a graphical diagram on the derailleur paper document which shows the valid combos. It's two triangular wedges... not the easiest thing in the world to read IMHO. They should just have a grid with a green check mark or a red X. Sheesh!

    The type 2 X9 & X0 rear derailleurs have the following capacity:

    short cage - 30
    mid cage - 35
    long cage - 47

    There are many 2x10 combos that could result in the mid cage being inadequate if you're using the 11-36 pie plate... very annoying. and-- yes, I had it happen to me. I chose to run a 11-32 cassette I already had instead.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree_trunks View Post
    Side note: The XTR shadow plus medium cage and shifter I'm using....
    Note: I switched to the XTR derailleur and XTR shifter I had from another bike already.

    Sorry if my lack of specifics implied I mated the X.0 shifter to the XTR der.

    If the cable pull was compatible betwen the two, I'd just use the X.0 shifter with the XTR Shadow+ and call it a day... I can dream right?

    From everything I've read, the average cable pull on Shimano 10 speed (offroad) is 2.3mm/ click mated to their 1.7 actuation ratio where the SRAM is 3mm of cable pull with their 1.36 ish actuation ratio. So they're obviously not compatible.


    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    ... not the easiest thing in the world to read IMHO....

    short cage - 30
    mid cage - 35
    long cage - 47
    I agree about their new instructions... I completely missed that the capacity shrank to 35 for the mid cage from the older X.0 37 capacity. I hope all is good when my long cage shows up. A number chart like your 3 lines above is a hell of a lot simpler.

    http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/qq...components.pdf
    Last edited by tree_trunks; 09-18-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    actually it looks too far away or just about right.. it should be around 6mm tooth of cassette to tooth of jockey wheel unless they changed that with the new clutch units

    the way that jockey wheel is worn it looks to me that the hanger is slightly bent (if you notice the angle worn into the side of the tooth it says the chain is sliding off the side not off just the top) Also having the B screw set too far away the top edge of the jockey wheel tooth will wear in a "shark fin" like that because the chain isn't leaving the wheel smoothly and is using less of them to guide the chain onto the cassette.. closer to the cassette give the chain more wrap around the jockey, more teeth doing the same job..

    the chain does look a tad short ... with a guide like that the chain should have at least 2-4 extra links..

    The chain is the correct length it is 1091 with one link removed on my santa cruz nomad.

    As for the b screw it probably is not adjusted correctly in the photo. I had been adjusting in and out after i was pretty fed up trying to figure out if that indeed was the issue with the derailleur not shifting correctly.

  14. #14
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    Here is a video of the issue that i was having. On top of the shifting issue i was having a clunking noise as you can see if i move the cage forward the noise goes away as if the tension was to much. (You can also see the B screw adjusted)


    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_cEET7lQ96s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_cEET7lQ96s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>



    I moved on to a Zee (also has a clutch) rear derailleur and saint shift and things are working perfectly!
    Last edited by Darkstar187; 09-18-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar187 View Post
    Here is a video of the issue that i was having. On top of the shifting issue i was having a clunking noise as you can see if i move the cage forward the noise goes away as if the tension was to much. (You can also see the B screw adjusted)







    I moved on to a Zee (also has a clutch) rear derailleur and saint shift and things are working perfectly!
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  16. #16
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    ok fixed!

  17. #17
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    hmmm can't really tell much that far away from the drive train..

    does look like the B screw is WAY tooo far out but again, hard to tell... can't really even see what the issue is if the Shimmy stuff is working.. leave it
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  18. #18
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    I can hear that it sounded like something was very wrong with the clutch. I can also see that his derailleur isn't overstretched, unlike some. He didn't have a capacity or chain length issue that I can see.

  19. #19
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    With the b screw adjusted out that far was the only way to get it to down shift. I have adjusted many derailleurs this one in the defective state was a battle to even get to to almost shift normally. The b screw not having anything to do with the problem or even the chain length which was the correct length. Only one link short of a new chain on a 1/10 with 34 x 11-36 med cage derailleur is defiantly not going to be on the short side. The deraileur did work correctly when it was first installed after a few rides the shifting became temperamental I noticed in certain gears.

    As you can see in the picture shimano set up the proper b screw distance is set.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    actually it looks too far away or just about right.. it should be around 6mm tooth of cassette to tooth of jockey wheel unless they changed that with the new clutch units

    the way that jockey wheel is worn it looks to me that the hanger is slightly bent (if you notice the angle worn into the side of the tooth it says the chain is sliding off the side not off just the top) Also having the B screw set too far away the top edge of the jockey wheel tooth will wear in a "shark fin" like that because the chain isn't leaving the wheel smoothly and is using less of them to guide the chain onto the cassette.. closer to the cassette give the chain more wrap around the jockey, more teeth doing the same job..

    the chain does look a tad short ... with a guide like that the chain should have at least 2-4 extra links..
    I understand that it is fixed OP, so that is great news! Just wanted to address Mr. Llama for a sec.......You are absolutely right. With the pic blown blown up like that it is indeed too far, not too close. Good eye!

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    After looking at the new Specialized Enduro drivetrain setups. 11-36 rear cassette and 36/24 chainrings. They are using the type 2 mid rear mechs. Wonder if they are having these issues also because I was looking to get the same setup as the new enduros.

  22. #22
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    broken sram x9 swing arm

    Does anyone know if you can replace the inner side(closer to the wheel) of a sram x9 rear derailleur. I was biking along and my derailleur kept making noise in the high gears, i jumped, started pedaling and SNAP. the swing arm had got jammed in the spokes an broke the inner swing arm and hanger. i had like only 15 to 20 miles on the derailleur after restoring my gary fisher Cake. i cant find any replacement part for the x9 and i dont want to spend another $80. for now i'm stuck riding my eatern bmx(not so bad) so i'l appreciate any advice.

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    Question for ColinL--I installed an X0 Type 2 in place of an existing XX. On my 2x10, 11-36, 38-24, I set the chain length for small chain ring and small cassette cog. When I next shift to the large chain ring and shift up the cassette gears, the chain gets stuck at about the 8th cog--not enough chain length. If I add a link, the jockey wheel will rub the chain when on the small cassette cog and small chain ring. The chain wrap capacity and cassette capacity appears to be the same for the medium cage XX and X0 type 2. So, why does XX work, while the X0 Type 2, does not?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech View Post
    Question for ColinL--I installed an X0 Type 2 in place of an existing XX. On my 2x10, 11-36, 38-24, I set the chain length for small chain ring and small cassette cog. When I next shift to the large chain ring and shift up the cassette gears, the chain gets stuck at about the 8th cog--not enough chain length. If I add a link, the jockey wheel will rub the chain when on the small cassette cog and small chain ring. The chain wrap capacity and cassette capacity appears to be the same for the medium cage XX and X0 type 2. So, why does XX work, while the X0 Type 2, does not?
    umm supposed to be large -large, not small-small for the chain length... probably destroying your whole drive train right now
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    umm supposed to be large -large, not small-small for the chain length... probably destroying your whole drive train right now
    Probably impolite, but I seriously LOL'D at this.

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    Perhaps you are right, but that is what the expert mechanic at the bike shop was doing. Today, the maximum expert at the bike shop arrived and informed the junior expert that the B adjustment was incorrect. The shifting now appears to be working properly.

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    So unfortunately I found this thread right after I bought the type 2 derailleur and after reading through all this it sounds like the main problem is when you exceed what is supposed to be the max travel of the derailleur. I currently have a 26-39 on the front and 12-36 on the back for a total of 37T. I will be switching the back out to a 11-32 which should be in line with what Sram is recommending but my question is this. Do you think it will be ok to ride the bike while I am waiting for the rear cassette to arrive? It would seem the only problem would happen when you run the two biggest gears at the same time.

  28. #28
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    You can do that but you'll lose more than just the 36. You probably won't be able to shift to the 32 either.

    I speak from experience. I had the same setup except a 11-36 cassette and I switched to 11-32 rather than get a long cage RD. If you make the chain extra long to try big-big then you'll loose a bunch of gears in your small chainring... like 3-4.

    You can ride it safely in the small chainring, with a properly sized chain, until you get the new cassette.

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    ColinL are you saying you switched to a smaller rear cassette and could not use the two big gears with a normal length chain? That doesn't seem right. It is not good practice because the alignment is also at is worst but I have on occasion done it while riding my 2x10 with the old setup

  30. #30
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    No, when I had the 11-36 cassette with a long (like 57 links) chain, I still couldn't use the two biggest cogs. And I couldn't use the 3 smallest cogs in the small chainring. Exceeding the RD capacity by that much is a bad thing.

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    my experience...

    Perhaps ignorance is bliss.

    I'm running an 11-36T cassette and 24/36 in the front with the X.9 Type 2 medium cage. When I bought it I wasn't aware that the medium Type 2 no longer supports 37T capacity. However, I've taken it on a few rides now, and I haven't noticed any problems yet.

    - Chain slap is gone.
    - Shifting: I'm able to cycle through all the gears without any problems. I've adjusted the B-tension to the recommended 6mm from 36T in the back.
    - Chain length looks good at full compression

    After reading the OP, I did notice some wear on the upper pulley (NO shark fins though). I also hear the quiet/subtle clunk in the clutch when cycling the suspension. But I don't notice it at all while riding. Maybe the clunk is b/c I've exceeded the tooth capacity of the medium cage, but that's just speculating. So far I don't really notice anything wrong while I'm riding.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by enduro View Post
    Perhaps ignorance is bliss.

    I'm running an 11-36T cassette and 24/36 in the front with the X.9 Type 2 medium cage. When I bought it I wasn't aware that the medium Type 2 no longer supports 37T capacity. However, I've taken it on a few rides now, and I haven't noticed any problems yet.
    This is exactly what my 2013 stumpy evo came with. I'd imagine if a stock bike has been spec'd with this setup then you shouldn't expect any issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    This is exactly what my 2013 stumpy evo came with. I'd imagine if a stock bike has been spec'd with this setup then you shouldn't expect any issues?
    A SRAM tech let me know that you can run 37T "at the absolute most" (direct quote from the email) with a type 2 midcage, but 38 will *not* work.

    On your stumpy, if you shift into small-small, what does your derailleur look like? How does the chain sound? It might bind a little, I'm curious.

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    Oh -- also, there is another possible route if you have the 26/39 XC crankset and a type2 midcage RD:

    You can use a Shimano 11-34 cassette. SRAM doesn't make 11-34, but Shimano does. I have used a Shimano cassette on otherwise all-SRAM drivetrain on my roadbike and it was just fine.

    I thought about that for my MTB, but I already had a SRAM 11-32 cassette on hand so I threw that on and I've found the gear range adequate. When I wear that cassette out, however, I probably will go 11-34.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    A SRAM tech let me know that you can run 37T "at the absolute most" (direct quote from the email) with a type 2 midcage, but 38 will *not* work.

    On your stumpy, if you shift into small-small, what does your derailleur look like? How does the chain sound? It might bind a little, I'm curious.
    I can't really test. I converted to 1x10. Running a single 32t up front now. I got a buddy with the same bike though, maybe I'll take a glance at his.

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    LOL at the people who say shimano is "better" when the person realized they didn't use the correct set up for SRAM.

    Both products are great, but you need to install them using the correct gearing...

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    What the hell???

    Sorry for the ridiculous question but how is all this 30, 35, 40 thing worked out? Is it the following?

    (largest sprocket on the cassette - smallest) + (largest chainring - smallest)

    Anyway I'm running 38/24 chainrings and an 11/36 cassette so according to the sophisticated formula above that would be 39T, therefore no chance of a medium cage X9 Type 2?

    So to run the medium cage X9 Type 2 I would need to change the cassette to an 11/32 as this would result in 35T. Is this correct?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by searchtime View Post
    Sorry for the ridiculous question but how is all this 30, 35, 40 thing worked out? Is it the following?

    1. (largest sprocket on the cassette - smallest) + (largest chainring - smallest)

    2. Anyway I'm running 38/24 chainrings and an 11/36 cassette so according to the sophisticated formula above that would be 39T, therefore no chance of a medium cage X9 Type 2?

    3. So to run the medium cage X9 Type 2 I would need to change the cassette to an 11/32 as this would result in 35T. Is this correct?
    1. yes, that is how you calculate chain wrap capacity. yep, you have 39 and you would need a long cage type 2 RD.

    2a. sophisticated? it's just counting the differences in the teeth, which ends up as extra chain and then the rear derailleur needs to take up the slack in the chain. this is the need for larger amount of rear derailleur capacity.

    2b. officially 35T is the spec. as noted previously, a few times by different people, sram says that 35T can be slightly exceeded but absolutely no more than 37.

    3. that is one option and it's what I did (26/39 rings) when I learned this the hard way and couldn't get my 11-36 cassette to work. but you could use a shimano 11-34 cassette and that would be 37T capacity, the absolute max sram allows, and you could probably get it to work as long as you don't mind a noisy or maybe even non-functional small-small gear combination.

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    So how does the result of the "sophisticated" formula allow the chain length to be calculated?

    P.S. I hope the speech marks allude to sarcasm as it is obviously very hard to convey in writing.

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    You can't calculate chain length like that-- you need chainstay length and number of teeth on your biggest chainwheel and biggest cassette cog. There are several sites with calculators that get you within 1 link which is pretty good, assuming you account for any chainstay growth on a FS bike.

    The rear derailleur has to then absorb all that chain capacity when running smaller teeth combinations, down to small-small.

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    Ive had exactly the same shifting problems with x9 type 2 mech, first one got replaced under sram warranty and the second still wont index properly! if i put my non type 2 x9 mech back on it works fine!! so i give up with it, but would love to know what the actual problem with it is?!?!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    3. that is one option and it's what I did (26/39 rings) when I learned this the hard way and couldn't get my 11-36 cassette to work. but you could use a shimano 11-34 cassette and that would be 37T capacity, the absolute max sram allows, and you could probably get it to work as long as you don't mind a noisy or maybe even non-functional small-small gear combination.
    since someone else replied & bumped this thread, I guess I'll quote myself and update my config. I really wanted to use the 11-36 cassette and just stay in my big ring most (actually nearly all) the time.

    so I bought a raceface turbine 28T small ring. this gives me (39-28)+(36-11) = 36T capacity. my SRAM type 2 midcage works great. I also put a 1.0mm shimano cassette spacer in there to setup a perfect chainline on the big ring. (My lockring can still be torqued to 40nm, no problem, and it doesn't rub on the dropout.)

    I'm glad this worked because my other consideration was to switch to a single 32 or 34 chainring but that would have cost more and obviously have less gear range than my somewhat weird 28/39.

  43. #43
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    Reading this thread has kept me from this upgrade. Initially I wanted the type 2 after vein told by SRAM that it is AM rated and built tougher. Then realizing my 22-44 and 11-36 setup up 3X10 I conceded that I must move to a 2X10. I have chosen and new rear cassette with 12-28 and 26-39 in the front. I too would like to use a mid-cage. I am hoping this will be fine, and after hearing your new setup I think everything should work well. Thanks!
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  44. #44
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    That is actually 29T capacity so technically you could use the short cage (30), but I would buy the midcage which will let you use up to 11-34.

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    After reading all this I went out and checked my bike, which is a 2013 Norco Shinobi 1 with a 2X10 drivetrain. It came set up with a Sram X9 type 2 rear derailleur, a 11-36 cassette, and 22/36 chainrings. That works out to 39T. It was also spec.d with a medium cage derailleur.

    I checked out Sram's website to try and confirm if my derailleur really is a medium cage, because if it is, it's being asked to perform way out of it's intended range. Sram doesn't seem to give measurements for the cage length, so I can not tell, but they do state that the long cage model is intended for 3X10 set-ups.

    Could someone who is sure they have a medium cage measure for me, center-to-center on the jockey wheels?

    My rear derailleur seems to function OK, and I have been regularly cross-chaining it big-big with no apparent problems. (not 'cause it's brilliant to do so, but it happens) The downshifts can be a little slow, which I was attributing to the Type-2 mech. & the X-Guide up front both increasing and maintaining higher chain tension. I do have one problem though, and that's throwing the chain off the outside of the big ring in front. I have carefully adjusted the front derailleur so it no longer happens when I shift in front. At this point it is only happening when I am flying along in top gear over rough stuff, for instance spinning downhill over washboards.

    So now I'm wondering; is the derailleur not able to properly maintain chain tension when I am at either end of the range, as in this case; high gear?
    Last edited by 883883; 12-09-2012 at 06:07 PM.

  46. #46
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    I can guarantee you have along cage because I tried everything with my midcage to make 38T work, including emailing sram for help, and it is a no-go.

    There is absolutely, positively no way a midcage would work with your setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I can guarantee you have along cage because I tried everything with my midcage to make 38T work, including emailing sram for help, and it is a no-go.

    There is absolutely, positively no way a midcage would work with your setup.


    OK, that's certainly suggests I've got a long cage despite the literature that comes with the bike and specifies it's a medium. I've just measured it; it's 100mm center-to-center (one jockey wheel to the other). I'd still like to find out what that measurement is for either a known long or a known medium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 883883 View Post
    ...I've just measured it; it's 100mm center-to-center (one jockey wheel to the other). I'd still like to find out what that measurement is for either a known long or a known medium.
    The long cage is 100mm.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 883883 View Post

    OK, that's certainly suggests I've got a long cage despite the literature that comes with the bike and specifies it's a medium. I've just measured it; it's 100mm center-to-center (one jockey wheel to the other). I'd still like to find out what that measurement is for either a known long or a known medium.
    I had some trouble getting my caliper on there properly but my midcage x9 type 2 is approximately 75mm.

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    OK, thanks everyone, it's good to know what I'm working with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I can guarantee you have along cage because I tried everything with my midcage to make 38T work, including emailing sram for help, and it is a no-go.

    There is absolutely, positively no way a midcage would work with your setup.
    Well, technically, if you were stuck with a mid cage RD, you could size the chain to be too long, and slack in small-small. If you can pay attention and not go into small-small, you'll be fine. Going into small-small in this instance isn't usually particularly bad; if you're pedaling along on a smooth surface, the chain just goes slack on the lower run. If you stop pedaling, the chain might just rest on the top of the chain stay. It's definitely less consequential than having too short a chain in big-big.

    However, if the chain is particularly long, and you have a draggy freehub body, you might run into trouble, as the chain could fall below the top of the chainstay and get jammed on the front of the cassette or behind the front derailleur.

    But there's no reason to worry. Long cages are not a big deal. They still work well and you probably wouldn't ever notice. With Type 2, the advantage of having a mid over a long is even less. You could argue that running a mid cage at max capacity is actually worse than using a long cage, because a fully extended cage tends to upshift from the low gear more slowly than one that's less extended. And the chain tension in a high gear might also be better if the cage is less folded up.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanik View Post
    Well, technically, if you were stuck with a mid cage RD, you could size the chain to be too long, and slack in small-small. If you can pay attention and not go into small-small, you'll be fine. Going into small-small in this instance isn't usually particularly bad; if you're pedaling along on a smooth surface, the chain just goes slack on the lower run. If you stop pedaling, the chain might just rest on the top of the chain stay. It's definitely less consequential than having too short a chain in big-big.

    However, if the chain is particularly long, and you have a draggy freehub body, you might run into trouble, as the chain could fall below the top of the chainstay and get jammed on the front of the cassette or behind the front derailleur.

    But there's no reason to worry. Long cages are not a big deal. They still work well and you probably wouldn't ever notice. With Type 2, the advantage of having a mid over a long is even less. You could argue that running a mid cage at max capacity is actually worse than using a long cage, because a fully extended cage tends to upshift from the low gear more slowly than one that's less extended. And the chain tension in a high gear might also be better if the cage is less folded up.
    Great post!

    When you exceed the RD's capacity too much, what happens is that you lose more than just small-small. You actually lose 2-3 gears.

    For some people this could still be acceptable, I realize, since there is gear ratio overlap between small-small and somewhere around the middle of the cassette in the big ring. But SRAM is right... don't exceed 37T on the midcage if you want to use all 20 gears of a 2x10.

    In my situation, I might have switched to a long cage but I was relatively happy with my bike running 26/39 and 11-32, until I logged a few hundred miles and decided that I'd rather have 28/39 11-36 instead of 32 (or 34) single ring with 11-36 cassette.

    For someone buying new, however, YES-- I totally agree. Buy a long cage and don't look back if you want to use a 11-36 cassette.

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    ColinL....Wow, thats some good work....Question, I was going to use a type two x9 Med cage on my rigid a.m. bike
    Heres the set up......34 or 36 single ring up front with a 11-36 cass.
    Would this work with the 34 or 36 up front, and if not I can buy a shimano 34 cass.
    I currently use a non type two on my cross bike with a 50 / 34 and an 36 cass, I ve used this set up with out issue for the past year....
    Thx for the help....

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMCAT View Post
    ColinL....Wow, thats some good work....Question, I was going to use a type two x9 Med cage on my rigid a.m. bike
    Heres the set up......34 or 36 single ring up front with a 11-36 cass.
    Would this work with the 34 or 36 up front, and if not I can buy a shimano 34 cass.
    I currently use a non type two on my cross bike with a 50 / 34 and an 36 cass, I ve used this set up with out issue for the past year....
    Thx for the help....
    That should be fine. You can even use a short cage with that setup, since you've got 1x and no suspension. As long as the RD can handle the 36T cog. I'm not sure about SRAM shortcage stuff but something like Zee or Saint with the "FR" B-link plate would work.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by searchtime View Post
    (largest sprocket on the cassette - smallest) + (largest chainring - smallest)
    So on the basis of this (sorry for digging this up again! )...

    I have a 1x10 set up. 34t front, 11-36t at the back, plus an e-13 TRS+ single chain guide with pulley.

    I got an X9 Type 2 short cage mech when I went 1x10 on this, based on reading that SRAM short cage is fine for 36t at the back for 1x10 (not having read about Type 2 differences). Also I've got exactly that set up but with non-Type 2 X9 short on my hard tail, exact same configuration and it's fine.

    So my capacity is (36-11)+(34-34)? = 25t.

    And if as earlier mentioned, a Type 2 short is rated 30t, so should be okay? Or have I misunderstood?

    However there are some issues, though not sure they're really a problem.

    When I originally set it up, measured chain big to big plus two links with suspension fully compressed. However shifting into the 36t at the back it was struggling and jamming as it shifted. It didn't like it at all.

    So I put in another two links. Shifts okay to the back and front after a bit of fiddly indexing (the non-Type 2 was dead easy to index). It's not absolutely smooth in a rig but quite nice riding, though I get what I call "suspension grind" in 36t if the suspension compresses a bit as climbing. Just a grinding noise a little. I've had it a bit before though when I had 2x10 and previous mech (X0, not Type 2).

    Chain slap, mech rattle, chain drop... non!

    But, shift to 11t, the mech is just about hitting itself (see first image)

    Riding however it doesn't seem to be a problem, just whenever I see things like this is shouts that the chain is too long as I understand it. Yet shorter chain and it struggles shifting to 36t, plus anyway the chain is nice and tight generally.

    and for ref at 36t see the other image.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails x.9 type 2 derailleur problems-20130103_185355_004.jpg  

    x.9 type 2 derailleur problems-20130103_185156_003.jpg  


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    How about the sprocket to upper guide pulley gap when in the 36t and shorter chain? Try an 8mm gap to see if it makes a difference.

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    With the b screw you mean? I did fiddle with that when it was shorter but didn't appear to help, but I can give it another go.

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    I'd go back to a mid cage,.. the big issue is the large cassette change (36-11), the short cage WILL do the range, but when you add the chain guide it "pulls" the chain on the bottom fighting the rear derailleur and making a 30 tooth range basically kick down to like a 26/28 tooth range. Which the derail should do but the guide stiffens the cross chaining which is needed to get the chain up and onto that big a$$ 36 tooth cassette ring. adding to the chain length will help as it kinda relaxes the tension a bit but like you discovered it'll hit when on the smaller cassette ring.

    if you can adjust the lower part of the of the guide to lighten up on the tension? it might help? I'm not big on chain guide so don;t have a lot of experience with the diff models.

    also have you check he chain line of the cranks? might actually be too far out so the chain is struggling too much to flex into the 36 toother..

    B screw could add to the issue...

    from the look of the 2nd image, that derailleur should be able to get that lower jockey wheel tensioned up and forward more... where it's sitting now is what it should be at when down about 3 or 4 rings on the cassette

    also a bend hanger could be adding to your issues...
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    The pulley was just a bonus really. Got it just in case but theory goes the clutch would remove the need. Some say it does, some say it doesn't. Then again this is a 1x non derailing ring and short mech.

    So, took off the pulley and took out the additional links. Struggling on the 36t, but fiddled with the B screw and think I've got it now. It was 'notchy' feeling though rotating the cranks when I'd got it shifting okay, so bit more adjustment and now it's pedalling fine, shifting fine, and mech angle looks better in 11t.

    Despite shorter chain, it's a tiny bit slacker without the pulley, but will see how that goes with the clutch. It might rattle against the backplate where the pulley goes but maybe I can stick some tape on that to dull any noise.

    Double checked the suspension fully compressed with air out and good too. Did note there's a slight knocking sound compressing with the air back in, somewhere at the back but not sure and the noise is less as I shift to the middle of the cassette.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails x.9 type 2 derailleur problems-20130105_172135_001.jpg  

    x.9 type 2 derailleur problems-20130105_172028_001.jpg  


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    If theres question about why certain combos aren't working check it against the the chart on the sram website. I can't post the link but its under the mountain user manuals and is called compatibility map MY13 - MTB components

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    YES! this setup does have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by tsmithr1 View Post
    After looking at the new Specialized Enduro drivetrain setups. 11-36 rear cassette and 36/24 chainrings. They are using the type 2 mid rear mechs. Wonder if they are having these issues also because I was looking to get the same setup as the new enduros.
    I have the 2013 Specialized Enduro with this setup. While I love the bike and its geometry - I have had no end of problems with the drivetrain, including the derailleur wrapping itself around the spokes on more than one occasion! After replacing many components, trialing different chain lengths and having the bike looked at by many well regarded bike mechs, I finally came across this thread. Crux is, that the mid cage type 2 was not designed to work with this chainring / cassette combo. I would have assumed that Specialized would have researched this one a bit better, my bike is going back to the shop tomorrow to have this sorted properly under warranty. They can stick the Elixir 5s in the trash at the same time.

  62. #62
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    That is weird, because I measured the cages on several specialized bikes with 2x10 and 11-36 cassettes and they were all ~100mm which is the long cage.

    If somehow you're having this issue with a long cage, then I would guess that either a part or a mechanic is in need of replacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    That is weird, because I measured the cages on several specialized bikes with 2x10 and 11-36 cassettes and they were all ~100mm which is the long cage.

    If somehow you're having this issue with a long cage, then I would guess that either a part or a mechanic is in need of replacement.
    Thanks, did you happen to measure a standard spec 2013 Enduro Comp by chance? Mine is definitely a med cage which is what the bike came with brand new from the shop 4 months ago. I wonder if Specialized messed up the spec on the first batch of these bikes. I guess none of the mechanics thought to check on the standard spec derrailleur being correct.

    Just checked the specs on the company website, Specialized Bicycle Components definitely says mid cage rear!

  64. #64
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    No, they don't stock Enduros in Kansas, at least not where I'm at. I saw this on a Stumpy and an Epic way back in the fall when they arrived with the first of the 2013s.

    Wow. That would be a major oversight on Specialized's part.

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    I bought a xo type 2 med cage last week and with 11-36 cogs and 36/22 chainring, the total 39t exceeds the recommended capacity. But i can shift in every gear without any problem but there is a clunk when i compress my suspension. When the cage lock is engaged there is no clunking. I bought a new cassette today 11-34 to fall within the maximum of 37t but the clunk is still there. Is this an rd issue amd can this be fixed?or is this just part of the breakin period?

  66. #66
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    x.9 type 2 derailleur problems

    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    I bought a xo type 2 med cage last week and with 11-36 cogs and 36/22 chainring, the total 39t exceeds the recommended capacity. But i can shift in every gear without any problem but there is a clunk when i compress my suspension. When the cage lock is engaged there is no clunking. I bought a new cassette today 11-34 to fall within the maximum of 37t but the clunk is still there. Is this an rd issue amd can this be fixed?or is this just part of the breakin period?
    Check your chain length with the suspension compressed. Sounds too short.
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    How many people with the type 2 derailers, who are using the SRAM recommended cage length are NOT having any issues?

    I just got one and really love it so far, after two rides that is....

    I got a long cage and am running a 38x24 and 11x36

    Thanks
    Bill

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    Rigid rear, long cage RD, 11-36, chain wraps of 41, 39, 38, 37, and 35, all with the same length chain. No issues with the warranty replacement derailleur.

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    [QUOTE=Billinsd;10429972]How many people with the type 2 derailers, who are using the SRAM recommended cage length are NOT having any issues?

    I just got one and really love it so far, after two rides that is....

    I got a long cage and am running a 38x24 and 11x36

    Thats the reason why i bought the 11-34 cassette to fall at the maximum capacity for a medium cage as per ColinL. I will try to lengthen my chain later and see how it goes.

  70. #70
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    chain length in and of itself won't make or break you with a midcage type2 RD. what will is the total chainwrap capacity of your setup. 37T works ok, 36 works a bit better because there's less drag in the small-small combination.

    if you want to use a bone-stock sram 2x10 and 11-36 cassette, you need a long cage RD.. period. the chainrings that come with *every single* sram 2x10 crankset will exceed 37T when combined with an 11-36 cassette.

  71. #71
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    Colin L, im running 11-36 and 36/22 with a mid cage rtype2 last week with audible clunking BUT good shifting. I bought a 11-34 cogset yesterday to see if the knock will disappear but to no avail. Both have good shifting except that clunking noise. So should i stry with the 11-36 or move to 11-34 which equals the recommended t capacity as per sram according to you.

    So whats the cause of the clunking noise?breakin in period?i have observed that the swing arm is really hard to push.

  72. #72
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    I don't know how you did that. The older SRAM midcage, before type2, officially supported 37T and could generally support 39 without drama. type2 lowered it to 35T officially, and per SRAM (I've got an email) 37T at the absolute most.

    I bought a type2 midcage very early (from ebay), before that was published on the websites last year. So I didn't know, and I tried to make 39/26 & 11-36 work. It just wouldn't, no matter what. If I had a long enough chain to use the big-big gear combination (39x36) the derailleur would fold up on itself and the chain would bind if you were in the small ring and got anywhere near the smallest cog. I want to say that 26x15 wasn't even great, if it worked at all. 13 and 11 did not work.

    If I used a shorter chain, then 26x11 would work but it wouldn't shift into the biggest cog ever and sometimes not even the 2nd biggest. It was a chain and/or derailleur disaster waiting to happen.

    So, like I said, if you can actually use 36x36 and 22x11 gear combinations I don't know how. My first guess would be that you have a long cage derailleur, not medium.

    I don't have a clue as to what could be clunking but if you shoot a good quality video of it on a stand, upload to youtube and then link to it, someone can probably help.

  73. #73
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    I've got a semi-related question regarding X9 type2. I've got the old style X9 and it's cage is all plasticy-carbon thing. I heard that the new X9 type2 cage is full aluminum. Is it?

    I was thinking about upgrading to XO to escape plastic, but if X9 has both alu plates (rather than alu and carbon on XO) that's even better for my case

  74. #74
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    X9 Type2 has both inner and outer alu plates.
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    I have a X9 Type 2 medium cage and it's been working flawlessly so far. I'm running a 11-36 XT cassette and 24/32 front rings on XT M780 cranks with a MRP LRP bash guard/roller.

    When sizing my chain I intentionally added a few extra links as a starting point and removed one link at a time until I got it perfect and yes, I did cycle the rear suspension when testing each chain length. I gotta say, 35 is the absolute maximum capacity that I would personally run on a medium cage Type 2 derailleur, no matter what. I know SRAM says that you can run 37 if you HAVE to, but I would rather play it right and get a long cage. Mine is at 33 and that's pretty darn close...

    Mantasm - The medium cage Type 2 derailleur does have aluminum cages.

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    Hi, I'm hoping to complete my hard tail build this weekend and just happened across this thread.

    I have a medium cage X9 type 2, a 12 - 36 X9 cassette and X9 Cranks with a single 32t MRP bling ring. Can anyone with a similar set up tell me if I am about run in to shifting problems? Do I need to swap the mech for a long cage? Thanks.

  77. #77
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    I ran a short cage x9 type 2 with a Sram 1070 11-36 cassette and xx1 cranks and 32T chainring with no problems at all.

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    No, you'll be totally fine. Your total capacity is only 24 which is well below the recommended max of 35.

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    Thanks fella's. Appreciated.

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    You could actually run a short cage without issue, they handle up to 30T which is adequate for any 10-speed cassette.

    However, it is nice to keep a midcage anyway, in case you ever do want to use a 2x10 crankset... like if you took your bike to a new area that has different terrain and needed the extra gear range.

  81. #81
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    Thanks Colin. I have been running 1X a while now and have never felt the need to go back to 2X or 3X, even on trips to the Alps. I'm just in the process of switching to sram XX1 on my Mojo HD and X9 on my SC Chameleon both from XT/XTR. I have yet to use a type 2.

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    Just wanted to chime in & echo what others have said. Chain length is critical with type 2. Just build up a new bike & used my type 2 from old bike that was nothing but problems......hard shifting, could never get to shift all cogs 100%, clunking etc. Was used to running tight chain with regular derailleurs to avoid chain slap, but took the time to set this one up with the chain length sram recommends & works flawless now.

    I think another issue could be bikes with wimpy break away hangers as there is a LOT more force/resistance with type 2 that may flex the hanger quite a bit

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    So how where can i find the srams recommeneded chain lengths? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    So how where can i find the srams recommeneded chain lengths? Thanks!
    Run chain from big cog to big chainring (not through the derailleur) with suspension fully compressed then add 2 full links.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Run chain from big cog to big chainring (not through the derailleur) with suspension fully compressed then add 2 full links.
    what he said...


    tech manual...
    http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/Kq...and_chains.pdf

    sram is pretty good about giving service info.. their layout of the page/site can be a bit hit and miss but a few minutes of searching can 99% of the time get you the info on their products you are looking for..

    SRAM Service | SRAM
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  86. #86
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    Im quite confused. If its certain that you should add 2links, why do you still have to do the bigring big cog procedure while the shock is compressed. Can i just add the links directly?i actually added 2links last week just to experiment but the clunking is still there and the chain sagged.

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    Btw, my cogset is XT 11-34. With 36/22 chainrings. Rd is xo type 2 medium

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    The suspension bottomed out completely

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    LGavin, Your chainring / casette combo still puts you at 37T max capacity which is 2T over the medium cage max capacity. And to answer your question, sure you can add or remove chain links one at a time until it's right. That's what I did. I intentionally left it a few links too long and took one link out at a time until it was perfect. And yes, I cycled the rear shock up and down to make sure it was perfect. I get NO CLUNKING and it shifts great. As I posted earlier, I'm running an 11-36 cassette with 24/32 chain rings up front for a capacity of 33T.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    Im quite confused. If its certain that you should add 2links, why do you still have to do the bigring big cog procedure while the shock is compressed. Can i just add the links directly?i actually added 2links last week just to experiment but the clunking is still there and the chain sagged.
    the "add 2 links" is for the derailleur it's self and spring tension and "S" curve of the jockey wheels, you do that on full squish and hard tails alike..
    the "make sure the suspension is compressed" is for the actual length, your chain stay length gets longer as the suspension archs up and away from the center of the crankset/bottom bracket. Most full squish bikes are deliberately designed to arch the tire back so when impact with an object the rear tire doesn't have to accelerate to get over it.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    Most full squish bikes are deliberately designed to arch the tire back so when impact with an object the rear tire doesn't have to accelerate to get over it.
    Huh. I thought most FS bikes have chain growth when compressing the swingarm so that chain tension provides additional pedaling platform / bob resistance.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Huh. I thought most FS bikes have chain growth when compressing the swingarm so that chain tension provides additional pedaling platform / bob resistance.
    ummm they use fancy tech to prevent pedal bob to help slow stop chain growth and suspension movement because when the chain grows you have to put more energy into pedaling the same distance forward... the whole thing we don't want is wasted energy, so using chain grown to prevent pedal bob is kinda counter productive... ? Thou I guess when you're "mashing" you are putting the energy into the pedals already so to use it to keep the tire down and forward can help... but that seems like a WHOLE lot of extra tension on the drivetrain and mostly the chain especially with the higher cross chaining action of modern larger range cassettes.. ?

    but we're getting off the main subject matter here
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    1. Can X9 rear derailleur be run by X7 trigger? (Matter of budget)

    2. Would it have any disadvantages?

    3. Is short cage ok for 34 X 11-26?

    4. Will I have chain drops if I don't use chain quide on front?

  94. #94
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    1. Can X9 rear derailleur be run by X7 trigger? (Matter of budget)

    Yes.

    2. Would it have any disadvantages?

    The X7 shifters aren't as crisp shifting as X9 shifters.

    3. Is short cage ok for 34 X 11-26?

    Yes. The short cage derailleur was made for single ring applications such as this.

    4. Will I have chain drops if I don't use chain quide on front?

    The Type 2 rear derailleurs prevent a lot of this, but it's still possible. I haven't dropped one yet and all I run is a MRP LRP.

  95. #95
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    ^^ good answers. I would suggest a simple chain retention device at least, such as a Blackspire Stinger.

    it comes down to how much you shift in bumpy conditions. if you do that a lot you're going to need something more than just a type 2 RD to keep the chain on.

  96. #96
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    My X9 type 2 is working great so far after 5 rides. I got the long cage and am running a 38x26 set up and have x9 shifters. There is a lot less chain slap around down the trail, but still some. Really nice....
    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    it comes down to how much you shift in bumpy conditions. if you do that a lot you're going to need something more than just a type 2 RD to keep the chain on.
    I come from singlespeeding background. My idea was to get a good ratio on and get going. So it shouldn't be an issue.

    Well still not sure about this cause I like simplicity and maintenance free riding. We'll see..

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    Just rode my Giant Anthem X 29er with XX1 crank 32 up front (no chain guide) with XO type 2 RD (11-36 cassette) and it worked great! Really loving this set up. Will follow up if I have any issues.

    Oh also using 10-spd chain.

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    1. What differences are between 11-36 and 11-25 cassette?
    2. Any difference in durability or shifting?
    3. Feeling experiense?
    4. If I'm using the 11-25 I get shorter chain.. will it prevent chain drop?

    I run 32x20 now and was going to use 34 in front. 11-23, 11-25, 11-28 only have the 21 cog to get the almost right gear. So that's why I'm asking.

    5. Wich one you would suggest? and why?

  100. #100
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    x.9 type 2 derailleur problems

    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    1. What differences are between 11-36 and 11-25 cassette?
    2. Any difference in durability or shifting?
    3. Feeling experiense?
    4. If I'm using the 11-25 I get shorter chain.. will it prevent chain drop?

    I run 32x20 now and was going to use 34 in front. 11-23, 11-25, 11-28 only have the 21 cog to get the almost right gear. So that's why I'm asking.

    5. Wich one you would suggest? and why?
    I would go 11-36. Why bother with a 10-sp cassette if you are still going to run a tight gearing range? Just stick with singlespeed otherwise.

    Pedaling any derailleur drivetrain feels less efficient than a dedicated SS setup.
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