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  1. #1
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    WTB Laser Disc Lite rear hub Servicing pics

    Ok, I'm reaaaally really tired right now. I'm going on 12 hours of hard labor, riding, then a stupid idea to try and service my rear LDL hub.

    I'm gonna post pics, little to no explanation. I will provide it at some time, but the procedure is so effing easy, the only thing I will recommend is to (of course) make sure you remember the order of the thin washers and make sure the main seal is fully seated. WTB told me many of the warranty returns are due to the user not installing the seal properly when they think it is. I used prep M. Lots of it. Also, make sure the preload nut is just barely snug and no more is needed. Cover all the exterior bearing surfaces for a hydrophobic barrier.


    First pic is the axle with the locknuts removed.
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  2. #2
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    moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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  3. #3
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    dhfkhvxbclxcl
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  4. #4
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    Reassembly. This hub is so easy to service, it's not even funny. The only special tool needed is one 19mm cone wrench, while you may use a regular one for the locknut. The instructions WTB sent me even said bearing preload is adjustable on the bike.
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  5. #5
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    Awesome pics thanks.

    Just to re-emphasize what you said
    -keep track of the thin washers. They can hide themselves and stick to the top of the bearing w/o you realizing it. Keep their order correct.

    -put the freebody/axle on first, THEN put the black rubber/metal sleeve back on and seat it properly. When taking the hub apart it is easy to pull the freebody off and then take the seal off. It seems natural to put the seal on first then put the freebody on but that is wrong.

    - remember which side the cone nuts go on. I actually put it together backwards and put the cone nuts on the free body side, and the freebody was getting in the way of the cone wrench. I had to consult the pictorial direction at Am classic to get it right.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, one thin ring in question was missing and I didn't know I lost it until I was puzzled about why the hub was binding real bad. It turns out it goes between the bearing of the freehub and the bearing in the hub body. Inserted and problem solved.

    This is how the hub works:
    1. Torque applied from pedals turns freehub body.
    2. Spring tang catches in cam plate holes, turning cam plate slightly.
    3. Cam plate has angled holes that control the position of the pawls. Pawls move down simultaneously and engage the ring on the freehub, thus transferring torque from freehub to hub.

  7. #7
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    Also,

    Mprep is the perfect lube. Greasy but not sticky. Regular bearing grease is too sticky and the pawls move too slowly. I've found that the Mprep does break down easier though and that the seals can't handle a really wet /muddy ride.

    As you said rebuilding is really easy but those that expect total weather performance and never having to touch them should look elsewhere.

  8. #8
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    JC...how old was this hub?? Was the grease in there pretty crappy dirty?? Looked that way in the pics... Does WTB send out a new freebody seal with the kit??

  9. #9
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    Two months of use, or so. The grease was dark, but I don't consider it truly dirty, per se. Lubricants turn black in the presence of carbons from the metals. I didn't find any grit in there, luckily. I don't know what color the lube was originally, btw. It really looks like the lube was just blackened, but functional from use. There was probably some moisture contained in it, however. I tend to spray the hubs for cleaning.

    Don't know about the seal with the kit. Call them. They are very nice and helpful.

  10. #10
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    Oh, I might include that you really shouldn't use "Tons" of grease. The pawls seem to return to rest simply from centrifugal force, so too much grease there may impede it. I ended up removing a bit of grease, along with adding a few drops of penetrating oil to the whole mix. Prep M is fine, I just used too much initially.

  11. #11
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    sorry to ask...

    thanks for the visual demo. now, how do i take the axle out? i tried unscrewing the cone nuts but the silver end cap only allows the cone nuts to unscrew so far. i just don't want to accidentally break anything!

    thanks for your time!
    Our life is a journey. let it be epic.

  12. #12
    JHK
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    silver end cap

    Yup... better safe than sorry, eh?

    No problem though, just keep unscrewing and the silver end cap pops out. when you put it all back together you just tap it in with a hammer.

    Good Luck.....

    ps... the hardest part for me was figuring out how tight to tighten the axle when I put it back together.... sealed bearings don't give you the same input as loose bearings.

  13. #13
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    Is this just standard cleaning and re greasing or did you replace any seals or parts?
    Have your hubs held up well?

  14. #14
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    Thanks for this post. It is really helpful! I just wanted to reiterate not to use too much grease. I just overhauled my rear hub a few days ago. I had too much grease under the cam plate, and between the cam plate and the hub body. Too much grease prevents the spring on the hub body from engaging the cam plate. Just put a very thin layer of grease on both sides of the cam plate.

    I've had my hubs for three years and they have been very good. I just replaced the bearings for the first time, but all other parts of the hub appear to be great shape. They are light, strong, and look nice.

  15. #15
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    I have a tub of Slick Honey, do you think that is good to use? I think it is a little
    lighter than some greases.

  16. #16
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    I've never used Slick Honey so I don't know for sure, but I'd think any waterproof grease should work fine. I used Prep M on the cam plate, and Finish Line Teflon grease on the pawls near the large black seal.

    Below is a link that I found really helpful also. These are overhaul instructions from American Classic. It's the same hub design as the WTB hubs.

    http://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/17mmHubOverhaul.pdf
    Last edited by mandj89; 01-05-2007 at 11:08 AM.

  17. #17
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    Nice document, thanks!

  18. #18
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    O.K., stupid question.... how did you get WTB to send you the parts? I'll do what I have to, but I sent them an email almost a week ago and haven't heard anything. Should I call them or what? I'm trying not to be impatient but I'd like to get this hub rebuilt. My spare wheels are pretty heavy and I'd like to get back to my regular stuff.

    Really nice demo/photo thing. Thanks a bunch.

  19. #19
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    WTB recommends that you use next to no lube since it can make the camplate slow to rotate. I find that 75-90 wt synthetic gear oil works best on my Laserdisc Lites. The two wheelsets I have are still rolling great.

    Also a few more comments:
    The original hubs had a completely flat cam plate with holes to engage the spring wire. The newer one is pictured and has raised sections that engage the SS wire on the f/h body. This is a much better steup. When the wire wears on the old hubs, the wire will not engage the holes and the rotate the camplate so the drive pawls will not engage the f/h body and your cranks just spin. Voice of experience on that one. If you have an old-style cam plate, give WTB a call (forget e-mail; they do not respond). You will need a new cam plate and an upgraded Freehub Body, which has heavier gage engagement wire. They will send you what you need. It cost me about $25.

    When the hub is apart, rotate the bearings. If they feel notchy or grabby, ditch them. The OE bearings are pretty cheesy. Get a set of Enduro replacements. I am thinking about ceramics the next time I need to replace them since they are about 60% lighter.

  20. #20
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    The lube comment contrasts with my own experience, as they told me to use PrepM. I believe I have mentioned not using too much, as this does slow action down. For the most part, engagement it not affected due to the disproportion of driving force to resistance of the grease. The place where it messes things up is upon disengagement. Those pawls need to flick themselves out of the way and can sometimes hit the tips of the engagement teeth.

    Again, the LDL's are made like this only to minimize rolling resistance. This is also the reason cited by WTB as the reason for sealing being next to nothing.

    At this point, the LDL's are overpriced since the ProII's became a lightweight contender. THey are also sealed and made to last as investment pieces.

  21. #21
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    Very good info. Thanks for letting us know.

    I'd like to break my hubs down to see what is actually wrong with them, but at the same time, if they're under warrenty or recall, WTB might not want me to. I just can't seem to figure out how to get a hold of someone at WTB to find out what to do. Email hasn't worked and I don't really want to lug a whole wheel across down on my bike if the one shop that I know of that does WTB won't/can't help me.

  22. #22
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    You call them. They've been really good about talking to me on the phone in the past.

    I'm gonna sound like a dick saying so, but if you need info and they're not answering the emails, call them. I've had good success both ways.

  23. #23
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    JC:
    The original cam plates were fussy about any stiction since the edge of the spring wire caught the edge of the camplate hole and that was the only thing that engaged the camplate and pawls. The new raised camplate design is a lot more tolerable of lube since engagement is more positive. Just the same, gear oil has been working flawlessly for me for the past 3 years.

    The only thing I miss about the hubs with the old camplates was that they were virtually silent when freewheeling. The new ones have the typical ratchet whine as the spring rides over the raised sections of the camplate like most other hubs. Well maybe not all hubs. Kings are the all-time winnersl when it comes to noise.

  24. #24
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    Thanks for all the posts. I'm about to do this service. Anyone ever use King ring drive grease as lube here? It's pretty light.

  25. #25
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    Wink No problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    You call them. They've been really good about talking to me on the phone in the past.

    I'm gonna sound like a dick saying so, but if you need info and they're not answering the emails, call them. I've had good success both ways.
    No... your advice is sound. The only problem is that I have to call them about 20:00 hour here to get them just coming in to work. I also don't understand why companies put email addresses & contact info. up if their not going to respond.

    I've now sent them two emails to two different addresses. Guess I'll call 'em next. I've got another frame showing up this week and no wheels to put on it. Would love to have this wheelset fixed this fixed this week. However, last time I had a problem, it took them almost 6 months to get me the right parts to fix the wheel. They must have some really good weed that they pass around the office or something. :-)

  26. #26
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    Got my kit in the mail today from WTB. Unfortunately, I have an a appt. in an hour and then class till 8:45 tonight. I might have to come home and do the rebuild tonight when I get home anyway.

  27. #27
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    Throw me a message through here if you need any assistance.

    Just remember to make sure you don't lose the washers when you take it apart. It's real easy to do so.

  28. #28
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    O.K., I think that I've gotten it all back together. Only two questions. 1. In the Am. Classic pics they have a small washer or something (at least it looks that way to me) on the axle. I never had such a thing. Was I supposed to? 2. Is the washer that doesn't seem to go anywhere, slip over the cassette body for before you put the cassette on or what?

    Thanks for the pics, they helped a lot.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Speed
    O.K., I think that I've gotten it all back together. Only two questions. 1. In the Am. Classic pics they have a small washer or something (at least it looks that way to me) on the axle. I never had such a thing. Was I supposed to? 2. Is the washer that doesn't seem to go anywhere, slip over the cassette body for before you put the cassette on or what?

    Thanks for the pics, they helped a lot.
    Are you talking about part #11 in this diagram?

    Cheers, Chris
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  30. #30
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    Wink Um.. yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris130
    Are you talking about part #11 in this diagram?

    Cheers, Chris
    Yup... at least I think so. It just goes under the cassette... where I to use one anyway.

  31. #31
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    It looks like I have come to the right place…
    I had some bearing play issues with the front and rear Laserdisc lite. I replaced the bearings in the front hub, and the play went away. However, after replacing the bearings (all four) on the rear there is still noticeable side to side movement, and no amount of bearing preload seems to fix it.
    My hubs have an aluminum "tube" between the bearings that the axel slides through. This tube falls out when the bearings is removed. I don't see this tube on WTB's diagram, and I have this suspicion that it may cause my problem, because I removed it and installed the bearings and the play seemed to disappear. However, I didn't ride without this tube as I wonder what its function is.
    The front hub has a similar tube between the bearings.

    Any ideas? Does your hubs have this tube?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_dane
    Any ideas? Does your hubs have this tube?
    I'm honestly not sure. It's been so long since I changed out my bearings that I have no recollection at all. Sorry. One of the other guys probably can tell you though.

  33. #33
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    Side to Side Play

    WTB LDL hubs are designed to have approx. 1-2mm of side play in an effort to make them rotate more freely. It's possible to get it a wee bit closer, but the hub will eventually bind or drag if you exceed the freeplay margin.

  34. #34
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Where to find those bearings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Ok, I'm reaaaally really tired right now. I'm going on 12 hours of hard labor, riding, then a stupid idea to try and service my rear LDL hub.
    Could you please wrote where did you manage to find bearings for LDL hub? I can't find any site/LBS/SKF store that has them in stock... and I have two rear LDL hubs in parts...


    Thanks!
    I'm not a complete idiot, some pieces are missing.

  35. #35
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    You might try...

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlyn
    Could you please wrote where did you manage to find bearings for LDL hub? I can't find any site/LBS/SKF store that has them in stock... and I have two rear LDL hubs in parts...
    Thanks!
    The best bet might be to call WTB directly. Frankly, I'm all but allergic to the phone and when I, finally, called them, they were very helpful and my parts came all the way to Germany in a really fast fashion.

    I'd guess, that they have the bearings or will give you a good idea where to find them. If you can get 'em, I hear that ceramic's are the way to go. They supposedly have great longevity and roll better as well as being lighter.

    WTB phone # (415) 389-5040. By the way, call 'em, don't email them. I've never received a response to any of my emails. Not sure what's up with that, but the phone worked out perfectly.

    Let us know how it goes.

  36. #36
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    Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow... I'll keep you updated...
    I'm not a complete idiot, some pieces are missing.

  37. #37
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    My rear hub just failed me today. It doesn't engage when I pedal. Does that mean I need service? Or is it broken? I will plan on calling them on Monday.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rconceptsinc
    My rear hub just failed me today. It doesn't engage when I pedal. Does that mean I need service? Or is it broken? I will plan on calling them on Monday.
    I'd guess, that you need to rebuild it. Same thing that mine did. It's actually quite easy, just a little bit of care and organization and you should be good to go. Oh... make sure that you have the wrenches before you get all set to start. A couple 19mm cone wrenches is not something that most people have.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Speed
    I'd guess, that you need to rebuild it. Same thing that mine did. It's actually quite easy, just a little bit of care and organization and you should be good to go. Oh... make sure that you have the wrenches before you get all set to start. A couple 19mm cone wrenches is not something that most people have.

    Thanks for the reply. Did you need the bearing kit or the freehub kit or both?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rconceptsinc
    Thanks for the reply. Did you need the bearing kit or the freehub kit or both?
    I only needed the freehub kit. However, changing out your bearings as well is probably a good idea.

  41. #41
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    I just got a new pair of wheels with the LDLs, and there seems to be play in the front wheel. I don't see how there is any adjustment for the bearing preload in the front. Does anyone know if this is normal, or if it can be fixed?

  42. #42
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    This message is more for RandyP, maybe JC can answer this. I went through the pictures by JC (THANKS!). I'm replacing an old freehub with the new from WTB. Once I assembled everything, things are not smooth. Theres a little roughness before it engages. Kind of like the paws are having a hard time smoothly engaging. I need some suggestions before I end up sending this wheel off if anyone has experience with this. I do have one washer and one of the rubber seals left over.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gremlyn
    Could you please wrote where did you manage to find bearings for LDL hub? I can't find any site/LBS/SKF store that has them in stock... and I have two rear LDL hubs in parts...


    Thanks!

    Ceramic:

    http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id139.html



    Steel:

    http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id138.html
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  44. #44
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    sweet pics im geting that hub soon on my shore 1

  45. #45
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    I too had my rear hub fail and had to order the rebuild kit. I got both the freehub kit (about $27) and new bearings ($7 I think). Note that neither of these kits come with replacement pawls so if you need them (like I did) order them too. A few ovservations:

    1. I had the older style system with the weak freehub spring (this is the piece that broke). The replacement freehub assembly that came had a different cam plate (no holes in this one) and a much heavier duty spring in the freehub body.

    2. There is a small washer in the old system that went between the bearings and freehub that is no longer needed in the new system. I verified this with their tech support and this piece was not included with the new kit.

    3. You are not supposed to leave any play when you are setting the preload. The old system had you leave some play that would get taken care of when the quick release was tightened.

    4. After assembly (which I found to be very easy) the freehub was much louder, similar to a hope but not near as loud as a king. There is also a bit more drag. I think that WTB redisigned the freehub to be more robust and in the process overdid it on the new spring and cam plate. It may be more durable but I miss my nice quiet rear hub. It still spins pretty freely but nowhere near as smooth or long as my old XT hubs. Oh well, it's fixed and until the wheel craters again I will keep riding it.

  46. #46
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    Are you guys happy w/ these hubs? Would you recommend them?

    I'm considering the WTB LDL w/ Velocity rims from oddsandendos.. I'm just not sure if there is a better more modern option for the buck. Thanks

  47. #47
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    ... and if we just ... Yup

    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan
    Are you guys happy w/ these hubs? Would you recommend them?

    I'm considering the WTB LDL w/ Velocity rims from oddsandendos.. I'm just not sure if there is a better more modern option for the buck. Thanks
    Yup...been very happy with mine. Granted, when the rear blew up after 4 years of heavy use I was annoyed, but the minute that I rebuilt it, it seemingly became bionic!

  48. #48
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    I am happy with mine. Theya are very light and have high flanges which helps out for a stiff wheel build. They were trouble and maintenance free for three years until the rear hub failed. Even then the replacement parts were cheap and I have never seen a hub that is easier to work on. The only downsides I see are the limited engagement points and the little bit of extra drag I noticed with the new rebuild. That drag seems to be going away gradually though.

    I would recommend them to someone who coming from an XT or similar type hub but if you are used to higher number of engagement points or do a lot of technical climbing (ledges, step ups, etc.) you may be better off going with a hub like the Hope II, King or I9. But then you are looking at a few more bucks.

  49. #49
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    I have only ridden about 50 - 75k and have a small amount of play on my rear LDL hub resulting in very minor wheel wobble. I am able to remove the locking nut, but how do I stop the axle from turning to remove the inner nut - is it just a matter of putting it in a vice?

  50. #50
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    Keep the rear wheel mounted in the bike and while holding the rear wheel loosen the inner retaining nut with a 19mm spanner wrench.

    From what it sounds like you need to thghten the inner adjusting nut, not remove it. This should take the play out. I have had best success making these adjustment with the wheel on the bike. You do need two 19mm spanner wrenchs though.

  51. #51
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    Thanks.

    I have now tried this and whilst it solves the problem of turning the nut, even with the inner nut tightened, there is still play in the wheel? Would my bearings have gone after so little use (50-75k)?

  52. #52
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    hi could anybody help me with the frount 20mm laser disc hub replacing bearings i cnt see how i can do it cos it seems totaly sealed

  53. #53
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    anyone know where to get the rear free hub kit?

    thank you for the help..

    Thony

  54. #54
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    Directly from WTB. I just called them on the phone and they shipped it, quickly, to me even here in Germany. If you dig around through the thread, the phone number is there somewhere. I posted it for someone else awhile back.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinoiryder
    anyone know where to get the rear free hub kit?

    thank you for the help..

    Thony

  55. #55
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    sorry to bump......but does anyone know if the wtb rebuild kit is the exact same as the american classic rebuild kit? i remember reading the wtb was rebadged or vice versa.....
    1. Your signature can not be longer than 125 characters.

  56. #56
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    Rebuild kits

    Same pieces, but beware that there are a few different versions of these hubs with different FH bodies, axle diameters and bearings, spacers, and seals. So while most of the pieces parts are the same, you need to make sure you have the right parts for your hub.

    Why not juist give WTB a call? They can tell you what you need and get you the right stuff.

    R

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyP
    Same pieces, but beware that there are a few different versions of these hubs with different FH bodies, axle diameters and bearings, spacers, and seals. So while most of the pieces parts are the same, you need to make sure you have the right parts for your hub.

    Why not juist give WTB a call? They can tell you what you need and get you the right stuff.

    R
    Posting here, because it seems like the most relevant thread...

    I tried to adjust my lock nuts on the rear WTB hub - I have 2 Park Tools 19mm cone wrenches...should be perfect, right? No. Can't hardly get them on the nuts ( much wiggling and some tapping got them on ) And then if I try to tighten, they just want to strip the bolts. WTF? Am I just a mechanical loser? I used to adjust/maintain my shimano rear hubs no problemo...same locknut scenario, right? (well, one sided on the WTB, and the shimano had smaller sizes like 15mm/16mm or something)

    is there a better tool...a 19mm cone wrench should be made for the job...i thought.

    thanks

  58. #58
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    Are the American Classic hubs the same exact things as the wtb laser discs except ft the outside appearance?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcpunk
    Posting here, because it seems like the most relevant thread...

    I tried to adjust my lock nuts on the rear WTB hub - I have 2 Park Tools 19mm cone wrenches...should be perfect, right? No. Can't hardly get them on the nuts ( much wiggling and some tapping got them on ) And then if I try to tighten, they just want to strip the bolts. WTF? Am I just a mechanical loser? I used to adjust/maintain my shimano rear hubs no problemo...same locknut scenario, right? (well, one sided on the WTB, and the shimano had smaller sizes like 15mm/16mm or something)

    is there a better tool...a 19mm cone wrench should be made for the job...i thought.

    thanks
    I use a 19mm cone for the lower nut and a regular crescent wrench for the upper. Note that you have to pop off the end piece with a small screwdriver first.

  60. #60
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    WTB hub service tools

    Ditto here. One 19mm cone wrench on the adjusting nut and a 19 mm 6-point socket or possibly a 19mm box wrench on the lock nut. You can use two cone wrenches, but you will most likey bugger up the lock nut (upper one). BTW, the end cap (end piece) will come out of the axle as the lock nut is unthreaded. After loosening the locknet and lifting the end cap a bit, thread the nut back down a few turns and remove the end cap with a screwdriver or other tool. If the lock nut is backed off all the way with the end cap in place, friction between the axle and the end cap may damage the last few axle threads.

    Cheers,

    Randy
    Last edited by RandyP; 01-05-2009 at 08:29 PM.

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    New question here.

    Hi guys, wondered if you could offer me some advice...

    I'm in the process of changing the bearings in my rear LDL hub. Problem I had was removing the two nuts from the axle along with the press in end cap.

    I understand the correct procedure is to unscrew the locknut and use it to push off the end cap (or at least get it started so I can prise a screwdriver in). This is fine, but what do I hold still with my other spanner to unscrew against (if that makes sense)?

    I put one spanner on the adjuster nut and held that still while I unscrewed the locknut with another hence pushing the end cap out. However as the end cap was really tight doing this also tightened the adjuster nut right up against the bearing and damaged it and the seal. And now the adjuster nut is tight against the bearing the only way I could find to hold the axle still so I could unscrew it was to clamp the axle in the bike.

    Ideally the axle needs to be clamped solid while I unscrew the locknut and adjuster nut but I cant get a grip on it with pliers or a vice (and I cant clamp it solid in my bike as then I couldnt pop the end cap out!). The manual on the wtb website says I need an axle vice but I've never heard of or seen such a thing before?? Why didn't they just put flats on the other end of the axle so I could hold it still while I unscrewed the nuts!?

    How did you guys manage it? I hope my description makes sense... :s

    Thanks

  62. #62
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    Axle vise

    There are a lot of sources for axle vises (DT Swiss, Park Tools, etc.) But usually I just use a pair of Vise Grips clamped gently onto the drive-side end cap to stop the axle from spinning while I back off the LS nuts. The attached doc is for an AM Classic hub (same same) except this one has the new 17 mm axle. It shows the axle clamp (vise) which is just a circular alum insert that you place against bench vise teeth to prevent marring.

    Cheers,

    Randy
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by RandyP; 03-28-2009 at 03:00 PM.

  63. #63
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    Yep

    AC makes the hubs for WTB. My experience with them (I have AC road hubs and four sets of WTB MTB wheels/hubs) shows that they are the same.

    Also, my bad. The attachment I included in the previous post did not include the pic I was hoping for. Here is a better illustration of an axle vise in use.

    Randy
    Attached Files Attached Files

  64. #64
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    Ye those hubs look very similar indeed except i notice the push in end cap on the non-drive side is smaller in diameter so you can unscrew the nuts over it - that would sure make things easier.

    I did try with a pair of vice grips but couldn't get enough purchase on the axle - maybe i'll try with a bit of rubber innertube wrapped round the jaws next time. I didn't realise an axle vice was something so simple, I was expecting some elaborate contraption for clamping it up. But still dont see why they couldnt machine flats into the axle so you could get a spanner on it

    Got it all back together now with two new bearings in there. Was a pleasant surprise that they could be so easily tapped out with a hammer and replaced - not nearly as tight as I was expecting. Got the adjuster nut finger tight so there is the slightest hint of side to side play - that way i reckon the bearings should last better.

    I only got the hub in november and the drive side bearing had already developed loads of play that couldnt be eliminated with the adjuster nut. I emailed WTB and they posted me out some new bearings free of charge. Fingers crossed these will last a little longer. I've got them covered in grease just to be sure

    Thanks for your advice Randy!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyP
    AC makes the hubs for WTB. My experience with them (I have AC road hubs and four sets of WTB MTB wheels/hubs) shows that they are the same.

    Also, my bad. The attachment I included in the previous post did not include the pic I was hoping for. Here is a better illustration of an axle vise in use.

    Randy
    Thats a nice document, much better than the WTB guide. Thanks for posting that here.

  66. #66
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    Thanks for a great thread, although if you replace the bearings in these hubs double check the size before you order new ones. I followed the instructions for the American Classic hubs and ordered 6803 bearings which are 17x26x5mm. My hub has 15x26x7mm bearings. Overall a little disappointed in these hubs. I have a set of Hopes I've got 6 solid seasons on that I haven't had to touch once for maintenance and are still spinning smoothly and quietly. These WTB's have one season and need new bearings? Thankfully it's an easy job.

  67. #67
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    Bearing size

    Yep. Check post #56. The new hubs use a 17mm axle and bearings.

    FWIW, I have replaced the original 15267 bearings (older version) with Enduros and have gotten much better bearing life. Some hubs need more attention than others. In general, they have been a good lightweight alternative. I just built up a set of SS disc wheels with Stan's rims and Supercomp Spokes and I love them. So far, no issues. The ZTR rims really work well running tube-type tires sret up tubeless with Stans.

  68. #68
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    Ok... so i washed my bike and maybe got oil eater sprayed on my hubs. should i take them apart and regrease them or shouldn't this have been avoided with "sealed Bearings"?
    God Made dirt. Dirt don't hurt

  69. #69
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    Squirting the hubs with cleaner

    Nah, usually it is not necessary just as long as you did not drown them in oil eater or 409 you should be OK. Sealed bearings or not, water and solvent or degreaser can still get past the seals.

    How do they feel? Gritty bearings are easy to spot.

  70. #70
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    Does anyone know if an older LDL (10/03 is stamped on the hub shell) will work with a new replacement free body kit.

    Any issues with minor changes in dimensions?

    What about those small washers? Are they both still needed with the new freehub kit?

  71. #71
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    Short answer: yes.

    Call WTB and let them know what hub body you have. The newer Freehub with heavier engagement wire can be fitted, but it requires a new cam plate and some other bits. They have a kiyt available.

    I upgraded my first LDL hub which is about 3-4 years old.

    Randy

  72. #72
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    I got the freebody kits from cambria. It comes with a new freebody, new cam plate and new seal.

    I need to call WTB to get the answer but I'm wondering about post #45 that says that the small washer that goes between the bearing and the freebody is not needed anymore. It is shown on all the schematics.

    I tried w/o using it and if you have the adjuster nuts on too tight the freebody will bind, but if you back them out you can adjust them until the freebody spins.

    If i do use it, it doesn't matter how tight the nuts are the freebody will still spin, but the bearings will feel stiction. The problem I felt was the freebody seemed too loose.

    Someone mentioned that they were able to get new pawls?

  73. #73
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    Is this freehub still OK to use?

    I finally took my LDL rear hub apart and it really is super easy, but this is my first time and I cannot judge if the freehub is still OK to use or not. Please see below...

    Any advice is much appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  74. #74
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    The bite marks on the carrier just make it a pain to get the cassette on/off. I take a file and lightly file the raise portions down to make it easier to slide the cassette on/off

    What really matters is the teeth on the bottom of the freebody that engage the pawls. Those get worn and start to break off or get pushed up and start to catch on the pawls. Are you having any slippage or wierd skipping. It might feel like the chain is skipping when it's actually occurring in the freebody.

    This is what happens after a free body self destructs while riding:
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93977814@N00/3721143491/" title="P1010022 by ashwinearl, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3721143491_7f42708012.jpg" width="500" height="374" alt="P1010022" /></a>

  75. #75
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    The other thing to watch out for is the wire that engages the freehub cam plate and the pawls. If it is worn down to a point (at a 45 degree angle rather than having a square end where it engages the holes in the camplate), it is time for a new FHB.

    As suggested, take a file to the splines and remove the high spots from your cassette. It will not affect FH operation at all.

  76. #76
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    I smoothed out the top of the ridges on the freehub using emory sandpaper and it worked like a charm. My new XT cassette went on without any problems. After seeing the XT cassette in comparison to the old Sram cassette, I am definitely not going to put another Sram cassette on my rear wheel. The Shimano cassette mounting system seems way better designed with less individual cogs providing better mechanical protection to the freehub body.

    I also replaced the 2 bearings in the hub shell and while at it, I also removed the so called bearing sleeve (aluminum cylinder/spacer between these two bearings; part# 13 in the WTB drawings). After removing this sleeve, I am now able to fine adjust bearing play.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywater
    After seeing the XT cassette in comparison to the old Sram cassette, I am definitely not going to put another Sram cassette on my rear wheel. The Shimano cassette mounting system seems way better designed with less individual cogs providing better mechanical protection to the freehub body.
    The higher end SRAM cassettes are similar to the XT, with an aluminum carrier.

  78. #78
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    Ok so i have the same problem and i called WTB and spoke with MIKE..This guy MIKE kicks ass he was so freaking cool and professional and although the wheel itself was a headache to deal with MIKE was surely the the Tylenol and it WTB has people like this working for them then i'll be a loyal customer.

  79. #79
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    Amazing thread, just what I needed. I've been having major issues with my cassette not engaging during pedaling. After following much of what I've learned in here I believe I may just need to replace the cam plate.

    Here are some pics to show what I'm looking at and see if everyone agrees that my problem is with the cam plate.

    1. This is the worn down side of the cam plate. What I think is the only thing I need to replace.



    2. This is the reverse side of the cam plate for comparison.



    3. This is the freehub. At approximately 4 o'clock in the picture you can see the wire spring. It seems to be in OK shape to me, measuring it stuck up about 1/32" and seemed to have a nice squared off edge to it. I've been unable to find pics of a new/good one to compare.



    Anyone have thoughts or opinions? I assume WTB would be willing to sell me just the cam plate, right?

    Fred

  80. #80
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    I think it's possible that is the problem. One suggestion is to make sure that when you assemble the hub, you have only a VERY thin coat of grease on the cam plate. Just enough to make it slick, but no extra. I've had problems before when I've over greased the cam plate. Not suggesting that the cam plate isn't worn, just offering something you could try.

  81. #81
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    I think it's possible that is the problem. One suggestion is to make sure that when you assemble the hub, you have only a VERY thin coat of grease on the cam plate. Just enough to make it slick, but no extra. I've had problems before when I've over greased the cam plate. Not suggesting that the cam plate isn't worn, just offering something you could try.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandj89
    I think it's possible that is the problem. One suggestion is to make sure that when you assemble the hub, you have only a VERY thin coat of grease on the cam plate. Just enough to make it slick, but no extra. I've had problems before when I've over greased the cam plate. Not suggesting that the cam plate isn't worn, just offering something you could try.
    I'll keep that in mind once I start the rebuild. Thanks.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by harmonf
    I'll keep that in mind once I start the rebuild. Thanks.
    I just tore mine down last night, and was reviewing this (awesome) thread to make sure I didn't miss anything. As suggested, try using heavy weight oil instead of actual grease around the pawls/plate. You can just tell by looking at those little pawls and the plate that if they stick, it won't work. I like it with just heavy oil ... nice loud click. When it gets muted, then I know its getting dirty and time for a clean!

  84. #84
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    Anyone do all this and still have play? I have spent hours adjusting the play and replacing all four bearings and I still have movement.Im going insane!

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    I thought you were SUPPOSED to have play. I think there are older models where a little bit of play was a requirement. Then in subsequent design changes this requirement went away.

    I know with all of mine, that the target is a as llittle bit of play as I can get.
    AA

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    Well I had no play when the wheel set was new, and this has so much play the wheel feels loose.

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    Hi there.
    I read this 3d because I need to know if my hub has some problems or not.
    The laser disc lite hub is almost new but I hear a sound like "tic" when I start pedaling.
    I take off the wheel and have the same sound if I try to spin with my hand the free hub clockwise.
    I disassembled but seems all ok.
    Do someone have had the same problem?
    Thanks
    Marco

  88. #88
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    Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'm having problems with my freehub as well. I am getting "ghost pedaling" where the cassette is "pushing" the pedals forward. I followed these pictures as well as this tech doc to try and fix the problem.

    http://wtb.com/pdf/manuals/ServiceLDLiteV6.pdf

    I cleaned everything out and put it back together, taking care to install the rubber seals correctly. But I'm still having the same problems with binding. Looking at the service manual it appears that I am missing part # 6, the "axle washer" on the rear hub. I don't know if I lost it during service or what but I can't find it anywhere. If I call WTB and order a replacement, do you think this will solve my issue? The bearings are new and teeth on the freehub look fine. Perhaps my prawls are worn out?

    Again, sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

  89. #89
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    Yeah, that spacer/washer is pretty important. Might be able to get one from American Classic easier than WTB...?

  90. #90
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    Thank you. Just to be clear, if ordering from AC ...

    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/h...b_Overhaul.pdf

    I am looking for the spacer featured in picture #11 between the freehub body and the cam plate, is that correct?

  91. #91
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    Yeah, but I think you want the 17mm one...the pdf you linked to is for the (older) 15mm version of that hub.

  92. #92
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    Step #3 shoes where the spacer goes.

  93. #93
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    I'm ordering the spacer for a WTB Laserdisc Lite, the part is #6 for the rear hub in the manual

    http://wtb.com/pdf/manuals/ServiceLDLiteV6.pdf

    The listed dimensions for the spacer are 15x17x.5 so I assumed I needed the 15mm version, but you've got me slightly confused now. Thanks for the help man, this is my first time servicing my rear hub so I'm still learning.

  94. #94
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    Sorry, I wrongly assumed that the LDL hubs were clones of the newer 17mm AC hubs, but you're right...they use a 15mm axle like the older AC hubs.

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    The spacer is critical

    If the spacer is missing, you are tightening the FHB up against the hub body when you set preload. The FHB will not be supported by the FHB bearings so it may bind. The net result is no freewheeling.

    Worn pawls would result in the opposite problem: the FHB will not engage under pedal pressure.

    Get that 0.5mm spacer and put it in as per the diagram.

    These hubs are not the best design I have ever seen, but with regular maintenance and care, they will work well. They are still one of the lightest IS disc hubs out there at this price point. And the AC roadie hubs are the lightest.

    Good luck with the project.

    Randy


    I cleaned everything out and put it back together, taking care to install the rubber seals correctly. But I'm still having the same problems with binding. Looking at the service manual it appears that I am missing part # 6, the "axle washer" on the rear hub. I don't know if I lost it during service or what but I can't find it anywhere. If I call WTB and order a replacement, do you think this will solve my issue? The bearings are new and teeth on the freehub look fine. Perhaps my prawls are worn out?

    Again, sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.[/QUOTE]

  96. #96
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    Thanks for the insight Randy. I called American Classic and they are shipping me a spacer free of charge, even though they know its for a WTB hub. Just wanted to give their customer service a shout (heck I'm not even a customer) and say thanks for the help!

  97. #97
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    I've also gotton some "ghost peddling" when I've just installed a brand new cassette body. It seems to go away after a ride or so. I believe it is because the new spring is very stiff and it needs to be worn a bit as it rubs on the cam plate.

  98. #98
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    Just wanted to say thanks to all in this thread. I have had quite a bit of play in my rear hub, even when adjusted, and its been sounding terrible. The information in this thread enabled me to strip it down without any nasty supprises. Found a bearing in a dreadful state, looks like seal failure - everything else looks fine. Just waiting for the Enduro replacement bearings to arrive before I reassemble everything.

    CC

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    I busted the outer bearing in the free hub, any tips on how could I replace only the bearing in question? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Escapado View Post
    I busted the outer bearing in the free hub, any tips on how could I replace only the bearing in question? Thanks
    I would look back through this thread, and look at the pictures. The Hub essentially comes apart in two halves, with TWO bearings on each half. Its a bit fiddly to tap the bearings out, but if you take your time its pretty straight forward.

    There is a tube that sits between the bearings, but gradually tapping, working your way round the bearing from the opposite side was all I needed.

    CC

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