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  1. #1
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    Whipperman chain durability and reusable pins?

    I am using sram pc69 chains and saw the new lineup getting less than favorable durability reviews. I was thinking about switching to the bottom end whipperman chain. I heard they are all really durable across the board, more so than sram and shimano, but I needed to know if the pins are reusable like on sram.

  2. #2
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    Reusing pins on any chain is a bad practice. Much better to use a "special" pin that comes from the manufacturer (sram even has these). Reusing pins will create weak spots and make it possible for the links to slide off.

    Whipperman does have the "connex" quick link, and I've found it range from easy to extremely difficult to remove. Not any better than anything else out there IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    THanks, Jayem, but your info is meaningless for me. I know what is best, but I also want a fall back in case I break chains on the trail. Several times, in the past, in fact. BTW- I have not found the repinned areas to be any less suseptible to breaking than others on the chain.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    THanks, Jayem, but your info is meaningless for me. I know what is best, but I also want a fall back in case I break chains on the trail. Several times, in the past, in fact. BTW- I have not found the repinned areas to be any less suseptible to breaking than others on the chain.
    You are correct, my info is meaningless because you already had made up your mind.

    It is a proven fact that chains are weakend when you remove and reinsert the same pin. Will you be able to get home if you have to do this? Probably. Will it hold up in the long run? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone should re-connect their chain if it breaks out on a trail, that's what multi-tools with chaintools are for. On the other hand, is it a permanent fix? Not really.

    Are there chains out there where you can re-insert the pin and not weaken the chain? Not really, for the simple fact that you can never push that pin back in exactly the same, if it goes in at an angle, no matter how slight, it will tend to ovalize the hole slightly, allow excessive wear, etc. The press-fit will also wear, even if the angle is perfect.

    You've made up your mind already, just get the whipperman chain and be done with it. Better yet, would it kill you to spend $3 on a sram (or kmc, or whipperman) powerlink type device? Just carry that in your camelback, then when you break the chain, put that baby in there, and problem fixed with no weak-links reintroduced into the system. This is the best way to have a "fall back" on the trail. You can even use the KMC or SRAM powerlink on shimano chains with no ill effects, and I've done it before. I usually keep additional "special pins" in my pack because the shimano chain always comes with an extra one, but these are the real fixes, not reinserting a pin. There's a much higher chance of sucess using these techniques, rather than trying to reinsert the pin, and then have the link slide off the pin when you are torqing up a big hill still miles from your destination.

    You also said in your post that you looking for a "fall back", so the question is, how well do you take advice? I've been a mech for a while, as long as seriously riding for more than a decade. I've had my share of broken shimano and sram chains, and I've used just about every method out there. I've reinserted pins before to get home when I had nothing else, and that's exactly the situation where you do such a thing.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  5. #5
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    Your info is meaningless because you're trying to sell me on a Shimano 7701 chain. I've read your posts.

    And yes, I have made up my mind of why I don't want shimano and I'm asking if Whipperman is viable for the specific question I had. And I have missing links.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Your info is meaningless because you're trying to sell me on a Shimano 7701 chain. I've read your posts.
    Jesus, I didn't realize people were this retarded.

    I don't give a f*ck what chain you are using. If you dug around a little more, you'd see that I sell way more SRAM chains, and I do so because they are far more user-servicable with the powerlink. They aren't bad chains, maybe not my favorite for a specific reason, but there are also specific reasons that make them the best chains for other people.

    Where the hell did I suggest that you get a shimano chain?

    I don't care whether you are using the connex, KMC, shimano, or sram chain;

    [size=14] IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO FIX YOUR CHAIN ON THE TRAIL, GET A POWERLINK, CONNEXLINK, KMC MISSING LINK, OR THE SPECIAL PIN THAT GOES WITH THAT CHAIN, IT'S NOT GOING TO KILL YOU TO DO SO, AND IT WILL BE A PERMANENT FIX SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT COMMING APART AT A LATER DATE.[/size]

    Maybe you are just concerned about your chain tool becomming useless? Well it won't be, because you'll still need to remove certain parts of the chain to install the correct fix, so if that is what's causing the temper tantrum, rest assured that you will still find it usefull.
    Last edited by Jayem; 10-28-2005 at 06:48 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Jesus, I didn't realize people were this retarded.

    I don't give a f*ck what chain you are using. If you dug around a little more, you'd see that I sell way more SRAM chains, and I do so because they are far more user-servicable with the powerlink. They aren't bad chains, maybe not my favorite for a specific reason, but there are also specific reasons that make them the best chains for other people.

    Where the hell did I suggest that you get a shimano chain?

    I don't care whether you are using the connex, KMC, shimano, or sram chain;

    [size=14] IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO FIX YOUR CHAIN ON THE TRAIL, GET A POWERLINK, CONNEXLINK, KMC MISSING LINK, OR THE SPECIAL PIN THAT GOES WITH THAT CHAIN, IT'S NOT GOING TO KILL YOU TO DO SO, AND IT WILL BE A PERMANENT FIX SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT COMMING APART AT A LATER DATE.[/size]

    Maybe you are just concerned about your chain tool becomming useless? Well it won't be, because you'll still need to remove certain parts of the chain to install the correct fix, so if that is what's causing the temper tantrum, rest assured that you will still find it usefull.

    Ever throw your toys around the sandbox when you didn't get your way?

  8. #8
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    Thanks for quoting my post, I like seeing it twice.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
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    one word answer, yes or no, are the pins reusable? I doubt your ability to answer it in one word. And I quoted you on purpose.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    one word answer, yes or no, are the pins reusable? I doubt your ability to answer it in one word. And I quoted you on purpose.
    Noyes.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I am using sram pc69 chains and saw the new lineup getting less than favorable durability reviews. I was thinking about switching to the bottom end whipperman chain. I heard they are all really durable across the board, more so than sram and shimano, but I needed to know if the pins are reusable like on sram.
    The pins on the Wipperman chain would be really hard to re-use. They do not stick out as far past the link plates as either a Shimano or Sram chain (maybe only 1/3 to 1/2 as far as a Sram or Shimano) and there is a small indent in the middle of the pin. This would cause the pin to deform into itslef when you are mushrooming the head after re-installing the pin.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Reusing pins on any chain is a bad practice. Much better to use a "special" pin that comes from the manufacturer (sram even has these). Reusing pins will create weak spots and make it possible for the links to slide off.
    What the h*ll did people do before the connecting links or "special" pins were invented?

    Reusing pins will work perfectly fine and not create any weak spots as long as the person who does knows how to mushroom the pin heads correctly after re-installation (obviously a lot of people don't).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHead
    What the h*ll did people do before the connecting links or "special" pins were invented?

    Reusing pins will work perfectly fine and not create any weak spots as long as the person who does knows how to mushroom the pin heads correctly after re-installation (obviously a lot of people don't).
    Is that a normal practice? No, because most people don't have that tool.

    Before we had special connectors, we acknoledged the fact that there would always be a weak spot in the chain, although if you do it right you can minimize the effect as you said, it still doesn't make as strong a connection as all the other links. Why do you think they invented the special links in the first place?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHead
    Reusing pins will work perfectly fine and not create any weak spots as long as the person who does knows how to mushroom the pin heads correctly after re-installation
    How do you re-shroom a bicycle chain pin? I've used a tool for re-shrooming the pins on chainsaw chains, but I've never seen one for a bicycle chain. Or heard, read, or seen a mention of one for bicycle chains.

    Monte

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Why do you think they invented the special links in the first place?
    For all of those people who just can't seem to figure it out.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte
    How do you re-shroom a bicycle chain pin? I've used a tool for re-shrooming the pins on chainsaw chains, but I've never seen one for a bicycle chain. Or heard, read, or seen a mention of one for bicycle chains.

    Monte
    After you push the pin back in, one side of the pin will still reatain the original factory mushroomed head. Hold a flat piece of steel (crescent wrench head or flat end of ball peen hammer head) against the already mushroomed head and use another ball peen hammer to mushroom the other end. This is the way people had to do it before the fancy connecting links and pins were invented.

    Quite common practice in industry.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHead
    After you push the pin back in, one side of the pin will still reatain the original factory mushroomed head. Hold a flat piece of steel (crescent wrench head or flat end of ball peen hammer head) against the already mushroomed head and use another ball peen hammer to mushroom the other end. This is the way people had to do it before the fancy connecting links and pins were invented.

    Quite common practice in industry.
    Damn, I guess I'll have to stick a couple of ballpeen hammers in my pack, fok, it's already too heavy.

    Being "common practice" doesn't make it good practice, that's not much better than just pressing the pin back in. Not that I've never done it, but it's been close to 30 years since I have. I'll stick with "master links" or "replacement pins". I guess I was hoping there was some cool tool that I didn't have yet.

    Monte

  18. #18
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    I really liked the wipperman 9X1 that I had, but it was expensive at $55.
    I carried an extra Connex link in my pack for trailside repairs.

    Right now I'm using CN-7701's cause Jenson has them for $20. I keep the repair pins in my pack, but use a Connex link on the chain to make maintenance easier (I used Powerlinks before, but, could never get them off w/o a tool yet had them fall off while riding ).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Reusing pins on any chain is a bad practice. Much better to use a "special" pin that comes from the manufacturer (sram even has these).
    Where have you seen these SRAM replacement pins? I'd be interested in getting some.

    Monte

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHead
    For all of those people who just can't seem to figure it out.
    No, for those of us that don't carry around 5lb hammers in our camelbacks.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte
    Where have you seen these SRAM replacement pins? I'd be interested in getting some.

    Monte
    Only from SRAM directly.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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