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  1. #1
    JBinKC
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    What's the advantage of exposed cable?

    It seems to me that full length cable housing makes a lot more sense than splitting it up with sections exposed. Dirt cant get in, it's easier to mount etc... So why do frame manufactures sometimes leave parts of the cable exposed?

    Justin

  2. #2
    Vaginatarian
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    its lighter, there's less cable to housing friction, its easier to adjust your deraillier, keeps the hair on your legs from getting too long
    thats all I can think of

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JbinKC
    It seems to me that full length cable housing makes a lot more sense than splitting it up with sections exposed. Dirt cant get in, it's easier to mount etc... So why do frame manufactures sometimes leave parts of the cable exposed?

    Justin
    I'm guessing primarily aesthetics, and like Dan suggested, weight. In some respectes, full-length housing is practically a signature of a departemnt store bike.

    But I like full length housing enough that I take the time and trouble to drill out cable stops when it's called for. Like you mention, it keeps dirt out, but I find full length runs reduce friction, too.

    I think it has something to do with the way the housing bends when it enters the stop. With a broken housing run, often the end of the housing sits at a little bit of an angle, not quite lined up with the direction the cable runs. This results in cable-to-housing (and ferrule) contact that I believe causes enough of a "hot spot" to drag on the cable significantly. Take a look at a used housing end and ferrule and note how sometimes the cable has cut through or ovalized the entry/exit path.

    Compare that to a full length run, where the housing is forced to follow the curve completely through. No off-tangent friction hot spot, no ferrule or constricted cable end, just a smooth, continuous path to follow. Any "friction" in the straight sections, I think, is negligible compared to the friction through a bend.

    What I know for sure is my dual-cable Speedhub setups are extremely friction prone, and a bad housing run is immediately felt at the shifter. The first few times out the gate, I tried broken housing runs, and each time switching to full length housing corrected the friction problem.

    Drilling out cable stops: (MkIII) Drilling Out Cable Stops...


    Housing end prep: http://forums.mtbr.com/tooltime/mkiii-cable-housing-prep-revisited-130064.html#post1189977
    speedub.nate
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  4. #4
    JBinKC
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    I never thought of drilling out the stop, thats a good idea. But I don't know if I'm brave enough to take a power drill to my frame.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JbinKC
    I never thought of drilling out the stop, thats a good idea. But I don't know if I'm brave enough to take a power drill to my frame.
    I don't know how I lived so many years without a Dremel!

    The first two times, I asked the manufacturer first -- warranty concerns. Both gave me the thumbs up, as long as I didn't knick the frame tubing. Hence all the tape.

    I've gotten a little more confident, and I've drilled on five frames. I stopped asking permission. I still rely heavily on tape, because the cutting bit I use likes to skip. A custom-cut aluminum can mask would be even better!

    The one caveat -- if you've got a full suspension frame, you'll probably need to use zip ties to prevent the full length housing from "pushing" through the drilled-out stop. I end up just tightly binding two pieces together so they pinch the stop. That's another area where interrupted housing has an advantage -- but again, an aesthetic advantage.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JbinKC
    It seems to me that full length cable housing makes a lot more sense than splitting it up with sections exposed. Dirt cant get in, it's easier to mount etc... So why do frame manufactures sometimes leave parts of the cable exposed?

    Justin
    It is a carry over from when cable housing compressed much more than current housing. More compression meant poor brakes and shifting. By reducing the amount of housing used performance increased.
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  7. #7
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    I recently had to do that to my Ti frame to accommadate the Hydrualic brake lines. Oh yeah, it's nice to have a Dremel.
    2013 DeVinci Leo SL
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  8. #8
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    Full Housing, Dry Cables, or Gore Tex (discontinued) for cold wet weather

    Exposed cables for dry conditions

    Long Live Dremels!

  9. #9
    Ride Everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah
    Full Housing, Dry Cables, or Gore Tex (discontinued) for cold wet weather

    Exposed cables for dry conditions

    Long Live Dremels!
    Check it out:

    http://www.universalcycles.com/compa...Gore%20Ride-On
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah
    Full Housing, Dry Cables, or Gore Tex (discontinued) for cold wet weather

    Exposed cables for dry conditions
    Exposed cables can be a problem even in dry conditions. I ride in dry, dusty conditions. Over time, the dust works its way into the housing. The increased friction from the dust is responsible for really poor shifting.

    I've been running uninterrupted housing from my rear derailleur to the rearmost cable stop on the main triangle to prevent dust kicked up from the rear wheel from getting into the housing. The only reason that I don't run full housing all the way up to the shifter is that the suspension action tends to move the cable around more than I'd like. Fortunately, the area around the cable stops on the top tube is not exposed to quite as much dust.

    Back when I was running interrupted (and exposed) housing along the seatstay, I was having to swap out the housing every couple of months due to dust contamination. Now, with uninterrupted housing along that stretch, I'm able to go for significantly longer periods without having to replace it. I think I'm getting six to twelve months of life out of that section of housing now.

  11. #11
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    ... and if we just ...

    Yet you haven't done the RIP9 yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    I don't know how I lived so many years without a Dremel!

    The first two times, I asked the manufacturer first -- warranty concerns. Both gave me the thumbs up, as long as I didn't knick the frame tubing. Hence all the tape.

    I've gotten a little more confident, and I've drilled on five frames. I stopped asking permission. I still rely heavily on tape, because the cutting bit I use likes to skip. A custom-cut aluminum can mask would be even better!

    The one caveat -- if you've got a full suspension frame, you'll probably need to use zip ties to prevent the full length housing from "pushing" through the drilled-out stop. I end up just tightly binding two pieces together so they pinch the stop. That's another area where interrupted housing has an advantage -- but again, an aesthetic advantage.

    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Yet you haven't done the RIP9 yet
    Yeah, that one is special... all zip ties
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  13. #13
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    ahaa....I had this very question and was about to ask it. I replaced my Jagwire cables about hmm...6 weeks ago for a Teflon lined wizzo space age material Shimano packaged as SIS SP 41. After diligently making all the cable cuts (and crossing the shifter front/back lines by accident) I got it all on and it was silky smooth and wonderful. A major improvement over before. So light to shift it was a real pleasure. But its dry and dusty here and the access points are red and dusty and the lines are not as great as they were. Next time its out with the 4mm drill for a continuous line. Im game if you guys are thanks for the motivation. Hope the manufactures change this in the next few years. Its dopey

  14. #14
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    Would it be possible to do away with cables completely?

    Hydraulic shifters? Doesn't seem like it could work but I'm sure some one smarter is going to correct me.

    I'm just tired of good dérailleurs loosing performance because of cheap cables. I could get expensive cables but they just do the same job with slightly better performance and the same limitations.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarashi
    Would it be possible to do away with cables completely?

    Hydraulic shifters? Doesn't seem like it could work but I'm sure some one smarter is going to correct me.
    I think I've seen photos of an experimental hydraulic shifter system somewhere. There's no obvious reason why it should not work perfectly well. I bet the system ends up quite a bit heavier than a cable-controlled drivetrain, though.

    The way Rohloff has two shift cables so no matter if you are up- or downshifting, you always have a cable pulling, makes a lot of sticky cable type of problems go away. Of course, if it wants to freeze completely, it'll still do exactly that. Freezing is really the only reason I'd really like to have hydraulic shifters.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighMark
    Wow! I thought the quit making those. They are a lot more expensive now. I had a set on a bike a number of years ago, and they worked great. The key is make sure you install them correctly (i.e., follow the instructions to the letter and do not take short cuts).

    There is another company named Dry Cables that are much cheaper, but I don't think the product is as good.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarashi
    Would it be possible to do away with cables completely?

    Hydraulic shifters? Doesn't seem like it could work but I'm sure some one smarter is going to correct me.
    It was tried eleven years ago -- marketed as S.A.F.E. hydraulic shift lines.



    I suppose the idea could make a comeback, but in 1996, it was just too complex for the era.

  18. #18
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    But then again, electronic shifting would most likely be lighter, faster and more precise than hydraulic. I don't know that, but it's my guess.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    I don't know how I lived so many years without a Dremel!

    The first two times, I asked the manufacturer first -- warranty concerns. Both gave me the thumbs up, as long as I didn't knick the frame tubing. Hence all the tape.

    I've gotten a little more confident, and I've drilled on five frames. I stopped asking permission. I still rely heavily on tape, because the cutting bit I use likes to skip. A custom-cut aluminum can mask would be even better!

    The one caveat -- if you've got a full suspension frame, you'll probably need to use zip ties to prevent the full length housing from "pushing" through the drilled-out stop. I end up just tightly binding two pieces together so they pinch the stop. That's another area where interrupted housing has an advantage -- but again, an aesthetic advantage.


    Nate
    while you have the dremel out, if you cut a couple of grooves in the outside you can use these instead of zip ties. and they are loose enough to allow some housing movement

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    jagwire
    DCA054 C-clip housing / hose frame guide Black / Plastic 4 pieces Blister
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teemu Kalvas
    I think I've seen photos of an experimental hydraulic shifter system somewhere. There's no obvious reason why it should not work perfectly well. I bet the system ends up quite a bit heavier than a cable-controlled drivetrain, though.

    The way Rohloff has two shift cables so no matter if you are up- or downshifting, you always have a cable pulling, makes a lot of sticky cable type of problems go away. Of course, if it wants to freeze completely, it'll still do exactly that. Freezing is really the only reason I'd really like to have hydraulic shifters.
    5rot (distributed by tr!ckstuff)
    http://www.5rot.com/startseite.html

    high end, quite a bit lighter than XTR or comparable, works fantastic from what I've heard but is extremely expensive, pretty much handmade and still somewhere between prototype and production. Last thing I know is that they were making like 5 sets or so, all of which were pre sold (at a price of 1500 Euros a set).
    For now, I guess this is something for money-doesn't-matter-weightweenie bikes.


    so, yeah. For the rest of us, go full length housing. Far better than exposed cables.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    Nate
    while you have the dremel out, if you cut a couple of grooves in the outside you can use these instead of zip ties. and they are loose enough to allow some housing movement

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    jagwire
    DCA054 C-clip housing / hose frame guide Black / Plastic 4 pieces Blister
    I've got those on another frame and had to do away with them. They weren't holding the housing securely enough for me, allowing it to get pushed around with suspension compression. That ugly nest of zip ties binds everything in place.
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  22. #22
    All 26.5" all the time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthemRider
    But then again, electronic shifting would most likely be lighter, faster and more precise than hydraulic. I don't know that, but it's my guess.
    They've already tried that too.

    Mavic's "Zap" system for road bikes:http://www.bikepro.com/products/rear...zap_rrder.html

    It didn't catch on either.

  23. #23
    the catalan connection
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    Gore discontinued?
    Maybe in the USA...
    I´ve been hearing about the RideOn end for maybe 3 years already, but every time I go for them at the shop, I get a set.

    Related to the topic:
    If your frame cable stopper position allows proper cable runs and bents, and you know how to prepare a ferrule and a cable end for a good clearance with the cable, I think interrupted housings are better performers than full length runs.
    The problem is that that´s rarely happening, and as speedhub said, added friction is unseen, but felt.
    "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordly evidence of the fact." George Elliot

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