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  1. #1
    Red sticky ball
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    That's it! Switching back to 9-speed

    Bought a 2011 Ibis Mojo HD and tried like heck to get my 9-speed XTR Rapid Rise der to work on it - purchased some cable ratio changer, and fussed around to no end to try and get it to work.

    Took it to a shop who could not get it to work.

    Then I gave up and decided to relearn shifting with a low normal der.

    Been riding the last year and a half with a low-normal der. Thought I'd get used to it... but no. Low-normal is miserable - particularly as I have a Rockshox reverb post - nothing like coming up to a technical climb and having to use your thumb to downshift 3 gears *and* adjust the seat.

    For technical riding RR shifting is superior (IMO - you may disagree) and I find no advantage with 10 speeds.

    Not too mention I question the durability of the 10speed cassette vs. 9speed.

    Just dropped $140 on XT 9speed RR der, cassette, and XTR chain at Chain Reaction Cycles. Now just have to find an XT 9speed rear shifter and I'll be set

    Who's with me?

  2. #2
    Chamois Dropper
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    I love my RR XTR. It just makes sense to me. Lightning fast. The problem is, that when we go on vacation this year and rent bikes, every single shift I make will be wrong. nothing like getting surprised by a climb and up shifting. I better start scouring eBay for a NOS RR XTR med cage soon before they are all gone, or selling for $300.
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  3. #3
    dwt
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    My dropper post lever is on the left so there is no interference with rear Der shifting.

    I also run 1X9 but wouldn't mind another gear. I think 10 speed has proved itself reliable and durable by now.

    RR makes mechanical sense but I have no desire to try to reprogram my muscle memory. Too old, reactions too deeply imprinted
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  4. #4
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    I guess you were using a 10sp MTB shifter? That would be the problem, I am running an XT rapid rise 9sp RD and a 10sp road shifter and it works like a dream:
    - DSCF1332

    But if you want a rapid rise RD and an MTB shifter, probably need to stick with 9sp.

  5. #5
    Red sticky ball
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Crawler View Post
    I guess you were using a 10sp MTB shifter? That would be the problem, I am running an XT rapid rise 9sp RD and a 10sp road shifter and it works like a dream:
    - DSCF1332

    But if you want a rapid rise RD and an MTB shifter, probably need to stick with 9sp.
    Thanks... I wish I had known this before began the saga of trying to make a 10sp XT shifter work with my beautiful XTR RR derailer when I first bought my bike.

    Nonetheless, the 9sp parts are on the way. I think 10 gears is stupid - at least for the riding that I do. I always find myself shifting two or more gears at a time.

    F shimano

  6. #6
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    I've never used one but i always thought it made sense, they should bring it back for 10 sp, i would definitely try it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by camus View Post
    Bought a 2011 Ibis Mojo HD and tried like heck to get my 9-speed XTR Rapid Rise der to work on it - purchased some cable ratio changer, and fussed around to no end to try and get it to work.

    Took it to a shop who could not get it to work.

    Then I gave up and decided to relearn shifting with a low normal der.

    Been riding the last year and a half with a low-normal der. Thought I'd get used to it... but no. Low-normal is miserable - particularly as I have a Rockshox reverb post - nothing like coming up to a technical climb and having to use your thumb to downshift 3 gears *and* adjust the seat.

    For technical riding RR shifting is superior (IMO - you may disagree) and I find no advantage with 10 speeds.

    Not too mention I question the durability of the 10speed cassette vs. 9speed.

    Just dropped $140 on XT 9speed RR der, cassette, and XTR chain at Chain Reaction Cycles. Now just have to find an XT 9speed rear shifter and I'll be set

    Who's with me?
    Rapid Rise is low normal. The spring moves the derailleur to the low (large) cog.

    Can not stand RR. It has come and gone a few times for a reason.
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  8. #8
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    I was gonna mention that as well, shiggy. If you think it doesn't make sense, watch the derailleur cage. It actually gets lower as you move to a lower gear. But the low or high still actually refers to the ratio.

    I'm pretty sure low normal makes less mechanical sense because of the forces involved in shifting. It also wouldn't work with Shadow Plus or Type 2, which I believe everyone should have.

    I crack up every time I encounter rapid rise, as it's inevitably on some crusty old bike that barely works. And because I think of the nicknames "Retard Rise" and "Rapid Demise".

    Seriously though, it tends to piss off your mechanics.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanik View Post

    Seriously though, it tends to piss off your mechanics.
    Indeed.

  10. #10
    the catalan connection
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    I like it too. Is a real pity that it has been discontinued.
    "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordly evidence of the fact." George Elliot

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Rapid Rise is low normal. The spring moves the derailleur to the low (large) cog.

    Can not stand RR. It has come and gone a few times for a reason.
    My bad. So it is called high-normal? I am not a gear head. I just know what works on the trail or not.

    I've heard for muddy conditions RR isn't good. Fortunately NorCal rarely gets that muddy and my drivetrains stays relatively clean.

    The ability to effortlessly flick an index finger to downshift into a lower gear, even multiple flicks, to me, is SOOOO much easier that having to take your thumb off the bar (sacrificing stability, power, and safety) and wrench the der into a low gear.

    But, I know these arguments are tiresome... and I know RR is the best deep down in my mountainbiking heart.

  12. #12
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by camus View Post
    My bad. So it is called high-normal? I am not a gear head. I just know what works on the trail or not.

    I've heard for muddy conditions RR isn't good. Fortunately NorCal rarely gets that muddy and my drivetrains stays relatively clean.

    The ability to effortlessly flick an index finger to downshift into a lower gear, even multiple flicks, to me, is SOOOO much easier that having to take your thumb off the bar (sacrificing stability, power, and safety) and wrench the der into a low gear.

    But, I know these arguments are tiresome... and I know RR is the best deep down in my mountainbiking heart.
    IMO RR was a way to idiot-proof shifting so riders could not "wrench the der into a lower gear" and break things. If the shift is being forced too much, RR will just not shift. Yes, mud, snow and ice can disable RR.

    I like to make a sweep across the cassette with a single push. With a little finesse of shifter and pedal pressure it is quick, clean and reliable, in all conditions.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    IMO RR was a way to idiot-proof shifting so riders could not "wrench the der into a lower gear" and break things. If the shift is being forced too much, RR will just not shift. Yes, mud, snow and ice can disable RR.
    Works the other way around as well....riders can wrench into to a higher gear lots of things can obstruct that shift..... and yes mud snow and ice can disable a NR

    Once the NR won't shift up it is also toast.

  14. #14
    Red sticky ball
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Works the other way around as well....riders can wrench into to a higher gear lots of things can obstruct that shift..... and yes mud snow and ice can disable a NR

    Once the NR won't shift up it is also toast.
    Yep. I have not-so-fond memories of my younger days riding in muddy winters and actually trying to bunnyhop the rear der to a higher gear.

    I suppose I will have to concede the argument that in crappy conditions gravity is working in your favor with a traditional derailleur.

    But, for me, the advantages of quick, effortless "paddle shifting" when downshifting outweigh any minute disadvantages of a normal rise der. When I have cleared an obstacle and am ready to hit hyper speed, yes, that is the time to remove a thumb from my grip and shift into higher gear. Not the opposite.

  15. #15
    Plays with tools
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    Quote Originally Posted by camus View Post
    My bad. So it is called high-normal? I am not a gear head. I just know what works on the trail or not.

    I've heard for muddy conditions RR isn't good. Fortunately NorCal rarely gets that muddy and my drivetrains stays relatively clean.

    The ability to effortlessly flick an index finger to downshift into a lower gear, even multiple flicks, to me, is SOOOO much easier that having to take your thumb off the bar (sacrificing stability, power, and safety) and wrench the der into a low gear.

    But, I know these arguments are tiresome... and I know RR is the best deep down in my mountainbiking heart.
    Call it backwards, everybody will know what your talking about.

    If we had never known anything but rapid rise we would all think it was normal and grand. It does have some draw backs that normal sprung mechs don't but they aren't impossible to solve. RR shifting was at home with the STI mountain bike shifters IMO. Another Shimano product that went over like a turd in the punch bowl.

  16. #16
    "El Whatever"
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    To me, the Rapid Rise thing I could not live with was try to go into a lower gear and wait for... nothing to happen. I'm not mad when I lose a pedal stroke or two trying to get into a higher gear. But when I'm oxygen deprived and hoping for my drivetrain to bail me out of my misery by going into a lower gear and then.... nothing happens.

    Maybe with a stronger return spring the thing would work now... but I'm not missing it.
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