Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 98
  1. #1
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847

    SRAM X.9 = The weakest link?

    3 weeks old. JRA. Caught a small branch (< 1/2" in diameter). All the king's horses, etc., and all of the tools in my Camelbak weren't going to be putting this mess back together. 4 mile walk out. Great time.

    15 years on Shimano rear derailleurs, including the last 7 on '98 XT 8-spd, and never a problem (aside from waning availabilty of compatable replacement parts!)

    FINALLY decide to 'upgrade' to 9 speed and give SRAM a shot. Not a good first impression, to say the least.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  2. #2
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847

    two more pics

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    3 weeks old. JRA. Caught a small branch (< 1/2" in diameter). All the king's horses, etc., and all of the tools in my Camelbak weren't going to be putting this mess back together. 4 mile walk out. Great time.

    15 years on Shimano rear derailleurs, including the last 7 on '98 XT 8-spd, and never a problem (aside from waning availabilty of compatable replacement parts!)

    FINALLY decide to 'upgrade' to 9 speed and give SRAM a shot. Not a good first impression, to say the least.
    Here's a couple more shots:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  3. #3
    Chrome Toaster
    Reputation: Hecubus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,850
    hah! Thats where the older 9.0's used to break constantly. Guess they never figured that one out.

  4. #4
    I should be studying...
    Reputation: frank daleview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    834
    Ouch!

  5. #5
    nnn
    nnn is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nnn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    799
    If it ain't broke don't fix it...I'm riding with LX since years ago and have never needed to replace/reallign/ask-it-nicely-to-work etc etc

  6. #6
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by nnn
    If it ain't broke don't fix it...I'm riding with LX since years ago and have never needed to replace/reallign/ask-it-nicely-to-work etc etc
    Oh, believe me, I hear ya. I'd been running XT 8 spd stuff on all of my bikes since '98 and I squeeze a ridiculous number of years/miles out of every part. Just happened this time around that EVERYTHING on my current 'main' bike's drivetrain was completely worn out. Shifters, cassette, chainrings, chain, derailleur spring & pulleys...you name it. After 3 solid years of 4-seasons riding, everything had to go.

    I looked for increasingly obscure 8-spd xt shifter pods. Used to buy them from Jenson for $59/set f & r. Now, they're at least $50 each (speedgoat). After much scouring of the web for 8 spd parts at reasonable prices, I said "wtf? This is getting ridiculous!"

    Picked up the X.9 triggers and rear derailleur for $119 at Pricepoint. Got a pretty good deal on all of the other parts I needed and, in a few days, I was rolling w/ 9 spd. Worked really well for 3 weeks, then this.

    If I could have kept riding 8-spd forever, I would have. The other 'problem' with shimano being that XT stuff continues to get more and more expensive every year. Hell, today's xt costs nearly as much as xtr from just a couple years ago.

    *shrug* I thought I'd give SRAM a chance. Guess that's what I get. FWIW, I already ordered a replacement LX rear derailleur, and a pair of Attack triggers, since the x.9s I have aren't shimano compatible. Had to get something while I wait for responses from SRAM and Pricepoint telling me that they won't replace the der. under warranty.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  7. #7
    Rat Fink
    Reputation: mbmojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,138
    Bad metal. Stuff is crystallized and is definitely a manufacturing defect. Send it back for replacement.
    .
    Raspberries, nature's poison ivy bait. (Formerly, 'Stops to eat the raspberries.')

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,070
    When you get a stick in your derailleur, something breaks. Sometimes it's the derailleur, sometimes it's the hanger. It's just part of mountain biking. Buy a new derailleur and get back on the trails.

    I've actually had a lot better luck with the SRAM derailleurs than Shimanos. Went through about a dozen Shimano derailleurs last year between my trailbike and FR bike, got SRAM last fall and haven't toasted one yet. The Shimanos seem to wear out and get sloppy a lot faster (only a couple actually broke).

  9. #9
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by watermoccasin
    When you get a stick in your derailleur, something breaks. Sometimes it's the derailleur, sometimes it's the hanger. It's just part of mountain biking.
    Couldn't disagree more. I've caught plenty of sticks (and rocks, etc) in the last decade and a half of riding off-road and have NEVER broken a derailleur or hanger...until now. I bent one aluminum hanger on my '94 M2, but that's it.

    ! weigh 150 lb, and ride with more finesse than brute force. The stick that destroyed the derailleur in question was about the size of my pinky. Granted, I shouldn't have hit it (duh) but the damage seems to far exceed the actual amount of force that could have been placed on the derailleur.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  10. #10
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmojo
    Bad metal. Stuff is crystallized and is definitely a manufacturing defect. Send it back for replacement.
    Not.
    Curious though how you came up with that scientific analysis from the photo?

  11. #11
    Rat Fink
    Reputation: mbmojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    Not.
    Curious though how you came up with that scientific analysis from the photo?
    Sure looks like it in the pics. Enlighten me.
    .
    Raspberries, nature's poison ivy bait. (Formerly, 'Stops to eat the raspberries.')

  12. #12
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmojo
    Sure looks like it in the pics. Enlighten me.
    No, enlighten me. You made the analysis that the mateial is crystallized. How'd you do that?

  13. #13
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    No, enlighten me. You made the analysis that the mateial is crystallized. How'd you do that?
    No need to be a douche bag about it. Let me answer for him:

    He looked at the pics. The metal in and around the break 'looks' like a conglomerate of crystalline particles. Whether this is typical or not is secondary.

    Christ, talk about looking for an argument!
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  14. #14
    Rat Fink
    Reputation: mbmojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    No, enlighten me. You made the analysis that the mateial is crystallized. How'd you do that?
    What a freakin' pantload.
    .
    Raspberries, nature's poison ivy bait. (Formerly, 'Stops to eat the raspberries.')

  15. #15
    Chrome Toaster
    Reputation: Hecubus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,850
    Thats what a cast alloy typically looks like when it breaks. How exactly does cast al become "crystalized"?

  16. #16
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    No need to be a douche bag about it. Let me answer for him:

    He looked at the pics. The metal in and around the break 'looks' like a conglomerate of crystalline particles. Whether this is typical or not is secondary.

    Christ, talk about looking for an argument!
    No need to be a double douche bag about it, right back at ya.

    It was a legitimate question. I'm curious how he made the analysis that it's a manufacturing defect due to crystalized material.

  17. #17
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmojo
    What a freakin' pantload.
    Good Ad Hominem.

  18. #18
    Rat Fink
    Reputation: mbmojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    It was a legitimate question. I'm curious how he made the analysis that it's a manufacturing defect due to crystalized material.
    When metal is cast or heat treated and isn't cooled properly, the grain becomes very course and crystalline in nature. Things made from that metal tend to be brittle and can easily break in a manner similar to what is shown in the picture. That part doesn't seem to be something that would normally be heat treated so it's probably cast.

    Either that or the part was made from pot metal. (zinc)
    .
    Raspberries, nature's poison ivy bait. (Formerly, 'Stops to eat the raspberries.')

  19. #19
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    Good Ad Hominem.
    Here's a thought: Instead of bustin' out the latin and rolling on the floor, why don't you explain to mbmojo why it's normal for cast aluminum alloy to be both crystaline and porous?
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  20. #20
    Rat Fink
    Reputation: mbmojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Here's a thought: Instead of bustin' out the latin and rolling on the floor, why don't you explain to mbmojo why it's normal for cast aluminum alloy to be both crystaline and porous?
    I thought I asked that question.

    Is it typical for aluminum the grain to be that course?
    .
    Raspberries, nature's poison ivy bait. (Formerly, 'Stops to eat the raspberries.')

  21. #21
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmojo
    When metal is cast or heat treated and isn't cooled properly, the grain becomes very course and crystalline in nature. Things made from that metal tend to be brittle and can easily break in a manner similar to what is shown in the picture. That part doesn't seem to be something that would normally be heat treated so it's probably cast.

    Either that or the part was made from pot metal. (zinc)
    Actually, all metals are crystalline when in the solid state. Some have tighter crystal structures than others.

    Cast aluminum or zinc when broken will appear to be highly "crystalline". Even if "cooled" properly. It's the nature of the material. It doesn't mean there was a manufacturing defect worthy of replacement.

  22. #22
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Here's a thought: Instead of bustin' out the latin and rolling on the floor, why don't you explain to mbmojo why it's normal for cast aluminum alloy to be both crystaline and porous?
    Funny that you bust on me yet I'm not the one bustin' out the name calling.

    mbmojo didn't ask that. "What a freakin' pantload" Doesn't quite give the impression of wanting input. I merely wanted clarification on his analysis. I didn't realize that was such a big deal.

  23. #23
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmojo
    I thought I asked that question.

    Is it typical for aluminum the grain to be that course?
    No you didn't, and yes it's very typical. In fact cast aluminum will pretty much always appear that way when broken.

  24. #24
    Inbred Homebrewer
    Reputation: Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg
    Funny that you bust on me yet I'm not the one bustin' out the name calling.

    mbmojo didn't ask that. "What a freakin' pantload" Doesn't quite give the impression of wanting input. I merely wanted clarification on his analysis. I didn't realize that was such a big deal.
    I wasn't 'bustin' on you. My point was that, instead of coming to the thread with little to add aside from picking apart someone else's opinion and starting a little 'I know more than you but I'm not telling' pissing match, you could contribute something worthwhile to the discussion. I'm neither metallurgist nor engineer. I'm a chemist, and I know a little about the properties of metals but, honestly, I'm not in the business of breaking bike parts and probably wouldn't be able to tell a 'routine' break from a 'defect'

    If somebody posts something that you know or suspect to be untrue, then educate the person, for the benefit of everyone else reading the thread. Otherwise, it's just a waste of space.

    All that said, I sure hope the derailleur's 'defective' (even though I suspect it isn't, aside from being inherently weak in a critical area), 'cos I'd hate to think they all snap so easily.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  25. #25
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    (enter witty phrase here)
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    I wasn't 'bustin' on you. My point was that, instead of coming to the thread with little to add aside from picking apart someone else's opinion and starting a little 'I know more than you but I'm not telling' pissing match, you could contribute something worthwhile to the discussion.
    Was not my intention. His original statement "Stuff is crystallized and is definitely a manufacturing defect" Sounded like he was confident in his "diagnosis". All I wanted to know was how he came up with that. Maybe he knew something I didn't.

    I'm neither metallurgist nor engineer. I'm a chemist, and I know a little about the properties of metals but, honestly, I'm not in the business of breaking bike parts and probably wouldn't be able to tell a 'routine' break from a 'defect'
    I'm an engineer, but not a metallurgist. I don't know of any ways to tell a routine break from a defect from a picture. Hence wanting to know more info from mbmojo.


    All that said, I sure hope the derailleur's 'defective' (even though I suspect it isn't, aside from being inherently weak in a critical area), 'cos I'd hate to think they all snap so easily.
    Sorry to say but I think you're SOL.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator V5.0
    By FireDog46 in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-16-2013, 09:46 PM
  2. Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator V4.0
    By FireDog46 in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-29-2004, 07:34 PM
  3. Mountain Bike Gear Ratio Calculator V4.0
    By FireDog46 in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-29-2004, 11:57 AM
  4. Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator V4.0
    By FireDog46 in forum Canadian Bikes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-29-2004, 11:28 AM
  5. Mountain Bike Gear Ratio Calculator V4.0
    By FireDog46 in forum Canadian Bikes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-29-2004, 11:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •