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  1. #1
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    SRAM Type 2: Does it prevent chain drop with 1x10?

    To the people with actual riding time on the new Type 2 derailer:

    Does it keep the chain in place on rough terrain by itself, used in a 1x10 setup? Or do you still need a chain guide like e.g. the e13 XCX?

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    This came up when Shimano released the new XTR Shadow with the clutch. From what I recall, a few claimed it worked, but then others later reported that they still ended up with occasional drops, though probably less. I wasn't brave enough to try it, so went with a guide on mine. This is why I'm finding the new XX1 so interesting.

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    I rode an enduro race over the weekend and saw a few riders with the new type 2. Most of them were running a chain guide but only the top part. I looked like some of the riders removed the bottom wheel of the chain guide.

    Over the last three months I broke an mrp g2 and an E13. Both of the tacos cracked where the idler wheel is located. I'm going to try to run the type 2 only using the top part of the chain guide.

    I order to run no chain guide at all on rough terrain a total system like the new 11 speed xx is necessary. The 11 speed system can be used with no chain guide (Iíve seen it in action!), but I did notice that the new s works enduro is equipped with the 11 speed and a guide, I guess for some extra safety.

  4. #4
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    I've got 3 rides on my type2 x9 running 2x10. Considering it doesn't completely eliminate chain slap, I wouldn't trust it without an upper chain guide imo.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I've got 3 rides on my type2 x9 running 2x10. Considering it doesn't completely eliminate chain slap, I wouldn't trust it without an upper chain guide imo.

    This.

    I've had one ride on mine, and it works very well, but I'd still not trust it without something up front. I'm running a bash/XCX setup - the XCX has been cut down for the cage to work with my bash.

    Super quiet, no chain drop, no need for a lower roller.

    YMMV, because it obviously depends on what your trails are like, and how you ride them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I've got 3 rides on my type2 x9 running 2x10. Considering it doesn't completely eliminate chain slap, I wouldn't trust it without an upper chain guide imo.

    Agreed Chainguides are still the best all around solution to stop dropping chains.

    Funny thing, I recently had a sales rep from one of the bikes companies try to tell me that their bikes dont need ISCG tabs, because the new type2 rear der's eliminate the need for chainguides. Even went so far as to tell me that Mark Weir doesnt even use them anymore - OMG that made me laugh so hard.
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    Another vote for running a guide. Shadow+ and type 2 are awesome but I had terrible luck with my XTR shadow+ rear mech sans guide. XCX with it has been perfect.

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll have problems running a guide due to a funky chainline, so I was hoping that a type 2 would do the trick by itself...

  9. #9
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    This has always been my battle with guides. They're all made for the standard stock chainlines of modern outboard bearing/crank systems. To get better shifting, I always mess with my chailine to bring it in as much as possible, either with spacers, or I've even used older narrow square taper BB/cranks. The guides never have enough adjustment available. Pauls is the obvious exception, but I've had spotty luck with those. My best solution so far is the Rohloff guide...had the 2 posts machined down a few mm by a machinist friend to allow it to move in enough. I've tried many, but when I need it to actually work, that's the one I go to.

  10. #10
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    Finally got one and have it all setup on my cyclocross bike. I used to run the standard X9 on my cross bike last year, so I have a direct comparison. On the old X9 dropping the chain would occur 50% when quickly shifting a few times. With the new X9 Type-2 I did not put my MRP chainguide on and took the bike to a rocky debris basin last night. All attempts to drop the chain failed. I am going to go on a long dirt ride this afternoon and see if I can drop the chain by shifting gears while on a really bumpy road at high speed.


  11. #11
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    Those of you just using the JUST a top guide sytem, what are you using to protect the chainring? I see some folks are going bashless. Living in the desert SW, that is just not an option for me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Agreed Chainguides are still the best all around solution to stop dropping chains. .
    I'm partial to bashwhich. Most reliable IME.

    But, inner bash does not clear chainstay on all bikes, and my bashwhich is not exactly quiet.






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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Those of you just using the JUST a top guide sytem, what are you using to protect the chainring? I see some folks are going bashless. Living in the desert SW, that is just not an option for me.


    We have this guide coming out next month - the AMg (All-mountain Guide). I pushed this concept through because I found for a lot of my riding here in the desert a top only guide and Shadow+ were working quite well - but like you I wanted to protect my chainring. I started using a 1x seat tube clamp mount guide and an XCG - but it looked clunky and was unecessariy heavy. Fixed that.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post


    We have this guide coming out next month - the AMg (All-mountain Guide). I pushed this concept through because I found for a lot of my riding here in the desert a top only guide and Shadow+ were working quite well - but like you I wanted to protect my chainring. I started using a 1x seat tube clamp mount guide and an XCG - but it looked clunky and was unecessariy heavy. Fixed that.
    Nice work. In the mean time. A hack saw is going to make my old LG1 look just like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post


    We have this guide coming out next month - the AMg (All-mountain Guide). I pushed this concept through because I found for a lot of my riding here in the desert a top only guide and Shadow+ were working quite well - but like you I wanted to protect my chainring. I started using a 1x seat tube clamp mount guide and an XCG - but it looked clunky and was unecessariy heavy. Fixed that.
    I'm going to be getting a Shadow+ derailleur and was originally going to pick up the G2 as my bash/guide. But this sounds like it'd be even better if the Shadow+ works as it should, I like the idea of not having the lower guide. Will this be offered in the old ISCG mount? Any details on pricing? Thanks in advance!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayonays View Post
    I'm going to be getting a Shadow+ derailleur and was originally going to pick up the G2 as my bash/guide. But this sounds like it'd be even better if the Shadow+ works as it should, I like the idea of not having the lower guide. Will this be offered in the old ISCG mount? Any details on pricing? Thanks in advance!
    Great!

    The AMg will be offered in ISCG, ISCG-05, and BB-mount options. $99 for alloy, $150 for carbon. 28-32t and 32-38t sizes. Both should be available around late November.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Great!

    The AMg will be offered in ISCG, ISCG-05, and BB-mount options. $99 for alloy, $150 for carbon. 28-32t and 32-38t sizes. Both should be available around late November.
    Awesome, just in time for Christmas!

  18. #18
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    no, some sort of guide is needed.
    I have a bashwich on mine and it works great. Had one on my last bike and never dropped a chain (5 years).
    Was a tight fit on the inner bashguard, had to mill the small chainring mounting pads off by .090" to make sure I had frame clearance. This also put the inner guard in a better position - right close to the front chainring, but not so close that the chain rubs on it when in the large ring on the rear.

  19. #19
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    widget?

    Other than cost, is there any problem with running a widget? Seems clean and simple to me.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel harvey View Post
    Other than cost, is there any problem with running a widget? Seems clean and simple to me.
    Do some searching in this forum. Some folks say they are a bit fragile, which is too bad because as you say, they are clean and simple. Plus have 28T and 30T chainring options, good for bigger than 26" wheels


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  21. #21
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    thanks, I'll do that search.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Do some searching in this forum. Some folks say they are a bit fragile, which is too bad because as you say, they are clean and simple. Plus have 28T and 30T chainring options, good for bigger than 26" wheels


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    A bit fragile is an understatement... But last time I checked the did seem to have a new stronger version. The original folded if it just saw an obstacle coming.

    It really did keep the chain on, had a good chain line, was easy to get 28t and was light though.

    If the stronger version existed when I got it I might consider another, but it's not cheap and the whole thing needs to be replaced when it wears out, also it does not prevent chainslap, actually if you move to a smaller chain ring you might actually get more chainslap as the chain rises closer to the stay.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    To the people with actual riding time on the new Type 2 derailer:

    Does it keep the chain in place on rough terrain by itself, used in a 1x10 setup? Or do you still need a chain guide like e.g. the e13 XCX?
    No, not even close, if it does you're not riding fast enough...

    #ahem#

    The concensus on clutch mechs is that they make the bike quieter and help reduce chain slap. They do not stop the chain from jumping, unless you never, ever turn the cranks backwards and always stay in the centre cogs.

    If you're riding a full suspension bike, I highly recommend a lower guide as well as a top.

  24. #24
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    I have Type2 X9 on my 26" HT 1x10 (32T niner ring, 11-36 Sram, 10 spd xl KMC chain). No drop chain so far but I also do not trust sprinting on it while going over bumps. I will be getting the Paul's chain keeper, just incase.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    No, not even close, if it does you're not riding fast enough...

    #ahem#

    The concensus on clutch mechs is that they make the bike quieter and help reduce chain slap. They do not stop the chain from jumping, unless you never, ever turn the cranks backwards and always stay in the centre cogs.

    If you're riding a full suspension bike, I highly recommend a lower guide as well as a top.
    I've had great luck with a Blackspire Stinger and a SRAM type 2 RD. I have my chainline 1mm outboard at the cassette, stock up front (2x10). It never drops a chain and I can shift front and rear simultaneously.

  26. #26
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    type 2

    I have about 400 miles on mine with no guide and have only dropped the chain twice. Both i was pedaling backwards over some roots. I do have the BBG bash guard but no inside guide. This thing works great. If this one got messed up on a crash i would replace it with another one.

  27. #27
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    type 2

    I have about 400 miles on mine with no guide and have only dropped the chain twice. Both i was pedaling backwards over some roots. I do have the BBG bash guard but no inside guide. This thing works great. If this one got messed up on a crash i would replace it with another one.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerguitar69 View Post
    I have about 400 miles on mine with no guide and have only dropped the chain twice. Both i was pedaling backwards over some roots. I do have the BBG bash guard but no inside guide. This thing works great. If this one got messed up on a crash i would replace it with another one.
    just a bash and NO front chain retention device at all?

  29. #29
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    Nope. Just a bash guard. The type 2 kinda locks in place. It takes a lot more effort to get it to move. And not more spring tension. But it actually locks in place till you push it forward. Works like a champ.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerguitar69 View Post
    Nope. Just a bash guard. The type 2 kinda locks in place. It takes a lot more effort to get it to move. And not more spring tension. But it actually locks in place till you push it forward. Works like a champ.
    You must ride smooth trails? That will most certainly not work for me. As it is, I'm bucking my chain almost every ride WITH a top retention device. Now, it's old, beat up and bent - bust still. I'm fairly certain if I replace it with the AMg that Noah recommended it will solve my problem. The lock you speak of certainly helps, but slap a rock at high speed hard enough and the pulley are still flys forward.

  31. #31
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    Huh... the lock is for changing a wheel, I sure hope no one is engaging that before a ride!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Huh... the lock is for changing a wheel, I sure hope no one is engaging that before a ride!
    No, I think by 'lock' beer dude was refering to the behavior of it not being all spring loaded and staying in place - not actually using the lock thingy.

  33. #33
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    i'm currently running an x9 type II 1x10 w/ an mrp 30t ring with no front chain retention device or bash guard. i was previously using an xcx guide but took it off to see how things would go. i've only got about 70-80 miles on this setup but have not dropped a chain yet. 5" travel bike in AZ - we got rocks. works great and pretty much silent.
    Last edited by 'size; 12-20-2012 at 03:08 PM.

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    I would go to your LBS and check out any new specialized. Most of them come with the type 2's. Try pushing one fwd. Its almost like a trigger. A lot of tension until you get it to move, and once its stopped it kinda locks again.

    if you consider a 1/2 mile tree root, log pile rock garden decent smooth, then yeah i ride smooth trails.

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    What cage length are those of you that have 1x10 setups using? I am building up a Niner Rip9 with a 1x10 using a 32t ring and 11-36 cassette. I was planning to order the short cage but came across a negative review on using the short cage type 2 with a 11-36t cassette? What is the advantage to the short cage vs. a mid cage other than a very slight weight difference?

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    i am using a long cage. Only because when i ordered mine i was running 3x10, not thinking about running even 2x. But after seeing another thread on here i decided to try 1x. Love it. I don't see ever going back.

  37. #37
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    I'm running mid-cage (32T/11-36T) on my XC bike. I plan on using short cage on my AM with the same gearing.

    What's wrong with the short cage & 11-36? From what I read, it fits with no problem.

  38. #38
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    It's definitely no problem. And if you ever decided to go 2x10, you have to use funny chainring combos for the midcage to work anyway-- I use 28/39 with 11-36 cassette which equals 36T capacity (official spec is 35).

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    This is what I read that had me concerned about using the short cage type 2. But the short cage is designed for 1x setups and 11-36 cassettes have to be the most common 1x 10 speed choice as most people would want the largest cassette range with only a single chainring up front.

    From jensonusa
    10/4/2012

    4.0

    Big improvement.

    By 9erMark

    from High Sierra
    Verified Reviewer

    Comments about Sram X.9 Type 2 10 Speed Rear Derailleur:

    Here is a product that is a big improvement over the standard X9 derailleur. It shifts great and almost eliminates all of the chain slap. It still moves over the really rocky stuff when you are riding at a good clip but is much quieter and saves you chainstay. I also like the locking feature which makes it easier to remove you wheel or the quicklink in your chain. It is just a few grams heavier but well worth the trade off of improved performance.

    Bottom Line Yes, I would recommend this to a friend

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    9/19/2012

    (1 of 1 customers found this review helpful)

    5.0

    Follow Up Review

    By Sweetp

    from Ohio

    Pros

    Cons

    Careful With Short Cage

    Best Uses

    Comments about Sram X.9 Type 2 10 Speed Rear Derailleur:

    I have already reviewed this above but I would like to inform anyone considering the short cage about my experience. Although SRAM claims the SC is compatible with a 36t rear cassette, I found this to not be so true. Shifting was really tight in those gears and would often get stuck up there because of the tension on the chain. Two techs at my LBS told me I need a medium cage for a large cassette like that. Long story short, if you are running a 1x10 or such, you should probably go with the medium cage. Jenson took my heavily used and abused short cage back and refunded my money no questions asked. Amazing! Jenson is great.

    Bottom Line Yes, I would recommend this to a friend

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  40. #40
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    I think it's more likely that person's chain was a link or three short. The short cage definitely can use 11-36 cassettes.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerguitar69 View Post
    I would go to your LBS and check out any new specialized. Most of them come with the type 2's. Try pushing one fwd. Its almost like a trigger. A lot of tension until you get it to move, and once its stopped it kinda locks again.

    if you consider a 1/2 mile tree root, log pile rock garden decent smooth, then yeah i ride smooth trails.
    Dude, read my post. I am using one. Have been for quite some time. There is just no possible way that I could use one WITHOUT some top retention device. I'm sure I'm not alone here either.

  42. #42
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    I know some guys that linger a lot in one gear and then only shift when they need not the next gear, but 2-3 different. If you do that, you'll be shifting a lot less and maybe could get away with only a type 2 (or shadow plus) RD.

    but I completely agree with you, Jwind, and others who say that most people probably need a guide for single ring setups.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I know some guys that linger a lot in one gear and then only shift when they need not the next gear, but 2-3 different. If you do that, you'll be shifting a lot less and maybe could get away with only a type 2 (or shadow plus) RD.

    but I completely agree with you, Jwind, and others who say that most people probably need a guide for single ring setups.
    The new clutch system is awesome. Don't get me wrong. Way quieter. The thing is, if you do hit something hard enough (which i do every ride multiple times) they pulley ar will move beyond that clutch resistance thingy. Once it does it's just flapping in the wind like a regular spring loaded der. There is also slack in the chain. Slack in the chain = chain drop. UNLESS you have a retention device.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    The new clutch system is awesome. Don't get me wrong. Way quieter. The thing is, if you do hit something hard enough (which i do every ride multiple times) they pulley ar will move beyond that clutch resistance thingy. Once it does it's just flapping in the wind like a reopgular spring loaded der. There is also slack in the chain. Slack in the chain = chain drop. UNLESS you have a retention device.

    This. Three bikes with Type2 rears, all short cages, 11-36 cassettes, single rings.

    The hardtail and 5" bike have been fine only using top retention over he ring (XCX on one, bash and tweaked XCX on the other. So far, no problems, but my couple brief bits without those upper guides have shown me they are needed.

    The 6.7" big bike is using a full guide because it has more chain growth, and gets bounced and bucked around a bit more when on its intended terrain.

    If the xx1 chain/ring staggered tooth pattern trickles down, that'll halp a lot towards not using guides, though many of us will still want some sort of upper guide and bash protection at the least.
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  45. #45
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    Thanks for the response especially that you are using it with long travel full suspension bikes.

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    Med or Long Cage for 2x10?

    39-27 front and 11-36 cassette
    I've read some say Med and some say Long cage.

    Also - anyone know if the clunking issue happens with a hardtail?

  47. #47
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    39-27 = 12T, 36-11 = 25T
    12+25 = 37T

    that will just barely work with medium cage, which has an official capacity of 35 but you can run up to 37 as long as you size the chain generously. you will need to run a long chain to the point that your small-small combo will make a lot of noise, wrapping back on itself. 38T won't work at all, I tried.

    or you can buy a long cage have absolutely no issues whatsoever.

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    Thanks ColinL !

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    This. Three bikes with Type2 rears, all short cages, 11-36 cassettes, single rings.

    The hardtail and 5" bike have been fine only using top retention over he ring (XCX on one, bash and tweaked XCX on the other. So far, no problems, but my couple brief bits without those upper guides have shown me they are needed.

    The 6.7" big bike is using a full guide because it has more chain growth, and gets bounced and bucked around a bit more when on its intended terrain.

    If the xx1 chain/ring staggered tooth pattern trickles down, that'll halp a lot towards not using guides, though many of us will still want some sort of upper guide and bash protection at the least.
    So to clarify, are you dropping a chain on longer travel bikes with just a top retention device? I really can't decide wether to go that route or back to full top and bottom on my Nomad...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Dude, read my post. I am using one. Have been for quite some time. There is just no possible way that I could use one WITHOUT some top retention device. I'm sure I'm not alone here either.
    Reading your posts makes we wonder if you have too much chain. When I set up my Shimano XTR Shadow+ the lbs left way too much chain. I took out several links.

    With my old 9 speed I only needed an eThirteen XCX on a full suspension bike. I plan to run my 650b carbon HT without a guide...and yes, the trails where I ride are plenty rough, and I race in an endurance series and can't afford mechanical issues.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    So to clarify, are you dropping a chain on longer travel bikes with just a top retention device? I really can't decide wether to go that route or back to full top and bottom on my Nomad...

    Yep. Rarely though, and only really having it come off the bottom - a half backward pedal stroke and it's fixed, but still...

    For the big bike, I've just decided to keep the full guide. Running it not cranked tight up into the stays - just enough to tension things tight to the ring. Quieter, less drag, and no drop.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    Reading your posts makes we wonder if you have too much chain. When I set up my Shimano XTR Shadow+ the lbs left way too much chain. I took out several links.

    With my old 9 speed I only needed an eThirteen XCX on a full suspension bike. I plan to run my 650b carbon HT without a guide...and yes, the trails where I ride are plenty rough, and I race in an endurance series and can't afford mechanical issues.
    1) My chain is as short as possible. Any shorter and it would break my derailleur upon chain growth.

    2) There is absolutely no way one could ride a bike around here without at least a top guide and I struggle to imagine it being possible anywhere.

    3) My current guide is way past expired. Bent, broken and barley hanging on. It's without a question the cause of my problems. It's more of a question of weather I want to replace it with just a top or top AND bottom guide.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    Yep. Rarely though, and only really having it come off the bottom - a half backward pedal stroke and it's fixed, but still...

    For the big bike, I've just decided to keep the full guide. Running it not cranked tight up into the stays - just enough to tension things tight to the ring. Quieter, less drag, and no drop.
    This is pretty much what I expected. Thanks for the feedback. I think you commented on a similar thread I started.

  54. #54
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    Nope!

    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    To the people with actual riding time on the new Type 2 derailer:

    Does it keep the chain in place on rough terrain by itself, used in a 1x10 setup? Or do you still need a chain guide like e.g. the e13 XCX?
    I was hopeful but, dropped my chain on a mellow descent. Chain guide goes back on. This derailleur definitely quiets the chain slap though.

    I'm wondering if anyone is making 1x10 chainrings with taller teeth? I think the XX1 solves the chain retention by more engagement up front.

  55. #55
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    Then fix your chainline

  56. #56
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    I use an X9 type II on my 26" full suspension w/2x10 drivetrain & have experienced a few dropped chains. 120mm rear travel so not a big bike.

    + one more for using a guide.
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  57. #57
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    I tried my newly built carbon hardtail without a guide this last weekend. I have a Shimano Shadow + XTR derailleur. On a 37 mile smooth singletrack ride I did get one chain drop. I'll be putting on an e13 XCX for security. I'm not sure how the SRAM ring can provide enough assurance. If their design isn't patented, we need someone like Homebrewed to make a ring with staggered teeth.

  58. #58
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    The best retention I've seen from a single ring is Renthal. It's a really wide ring-- 10spd chain just barely fits on it. I would still use at least a lower guide.

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