Poll: Which do you prefer?

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  1. #1
    Will work 4 Fisher's
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    SRAM or Shimano?

    Alright. Due to the controversy at this thread (Interesting POLL - XTR, XT, XO, X9.......) i have decided to start a poll. soo....yup.

    ~Shorty~

  2. #2
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    I voted Shimano simpley because I like the low-normal rear mechs. They just work better for my shifting style.

  3. #3
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    Hard to do a meaningful poll on this. I have both SRAM and Shimano on both of my bikes. I prefer SRAM for some components and Shimano for others. I suspect that this is true for many other riders as well.

  4. #4
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    The only thing Sram on my bike is the chain. Mainly cause I can get them cheaper at the store then a shimano of the same level. Everything else I prefer Shimano.
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  5. #5
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    I'd have to agree, I really like the new low-normal Shimano stuff - makes perfect sense to me when shifting. Wouldn't mind trying some SRAM stuff but it's too expensive to have to switch shifters etc and then loose the low-normal shifting ontop of all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpick915
    I voted Shimano simpley because I like the low-normal rear mechs. They just work better for my shifting style.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  6. #6
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    How About Neither As A Choice?

    I don't own anything SRAM (well some sachs stuff and a RS fork if you want to count stuff thats part of SRAM now), and only have a handful of Shimano parts between a half dozen bikes.
    *** --- *** --- ***

  7. #7
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    sram x.0 here. not even in the same ballpark as my old xt stuff. can't believe i put up with the way shimano shifted for so long.

    sram = butter!

  8. #8
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    full XTR here on a Seven

  9. #9
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    I went from a Deore/LX set up to almost a full X9 (I have an e-type front derailler). Granted, X9 is a higher level then what I came from, but the performance difference is HUGE. Shifting is much more pronounced, I cam dump 4 cogs in one shot, and I have only had to adjust the cables once this year compared to once a month with the Shimano. I also really like the thumb/thumb set up better than the thumb/finger.

    As always, this is just MHO.

  10. #10
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    mostly SRAM now

    the only thing on the bike from the big S right now is the front derrailleur. my XTR shifters crapped out last year (they were old so I'm not holding that against the might S) and I went with SRAM X-9 triggers and an X-0 rear derrailleur.

    They performed better than my Shimano stuff ever did. Like I said, the XTR was old so it wasn't in current form but the SRAM shifting and rear derrailleur worked like a dream the minute I put it on. Part of the reason I went with SRAM is becuase I didn't want the arse backwards rear derrailleur and at the time, Shimano was pushing the dual control and not really indicating whether individual shifters would be available. the new XTR does look cool though so I"m not necessarily anti Shimano I just think SRAM works very, very well too.

    The shifting on the SRAM is very natural and it only took half a ride to get used to the differnt paddle operation.

    YR

  11. #11
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    Cassette-XTR, cuz it shifts well and relatively strong
    Chain-SRAM cuz the powerlink is oh so handy
    Rear derailleur-SRAM XO cuz it shifts so crisply
    Shifters-SRAM all thumbs is better for me, brake/shift at the sme time if I want.
    Front Der.-XTR cuz there is nothing better out right now.

    I want to convert all my bike to SRAM if I had the cash

  12. #12
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    -The X.0 triggers and rear derailleur are amazing. Crisp doesn't even begin to describe how clean and fast these things shift. If you can afford them, get them. Shimano's got nothing on them right now.

    -SRAM doesn't even try to compete in the front derailleur market, and the XT and XTR are slick. Shimano all the way, baby.

    -The cassettes are kind of a toss-up, but I like the XT since it's lighter than SRAM's best cassette and it's practically bulletproof.

    -I broke a Shimano chain out on the trail last week and I remembered how much of a PITA it is to change them. The SRAM chains take less than two minutes to put on and SRAM chains are also lighter. I gave away my spare XTR chains and replaced them with SRAM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLud
    The SRAM chains take less than two minutes to put on and SRAM chains are also lighter.
    Yeah right. Removing links from either chain takes about the same amount of time.

    You should have given me your spare XTR chains.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #14
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    i like shimano except for chains i like sram. however both my current bikes have shimano chains--when i replace it will be sram.

  15. #15
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    I have a complete SRAM XO drivetrain except the front mech and it has worked better than the XTR setup it replaced.

  16. #16
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    SRAM X.0 triggers & RD, XTR FD, SRAM cassette. Blows AWAY my previous all XT setup. Couldn't be happier!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLud
    Hard to do a meaningful poll on this. I have both SRAM and Shimano on both of my bikes. I prefer SRAM for some components and Shimano for others. I suspect that this is true for many other riders as well.

    The only Shimano stuff I absolutely hate are rear hubs,,, Everything else is kind of a toss-up. XO is clearly the best shifting setup, but the price is

  18. #18
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    I prefer SRAM but only just. The differences are so minor it's about 52% to 48%.

  19. #19
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    I can understand why people buy the high end RD's 'cause you use them so much throughout a ride, but don't understand why they spend that sort of cash for a FD when it's used so very little during a ride - I mean any properly adjusted FD will shift down smoothly in a pinch, it's nothing like a RD's workload. Maybe I just am cheap, watch where I'm going and pick my gears before I need them and watch my shifting - I don't shift under load unless absolutely neccessary and then I "soft pedal" a 1/2 stroke to make the change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magick Mountain
    SRAM X.0 triggers & RD, XTR FD, SRAM cassette. Blows AWAY my previous all XT setup. Couldn't be happier!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I can understand why people buy the high end RD's 'cause you use them so much throughout a ride, but don't understand why they spend that sort of cash for a FD when it's used so very little during a ride - I mean any properly adjusted FD will shift down smoothly in a pinch, it's nothing like a RD's workload. Maybe I just am cheap, watch where I'm going and pick my gears before I need them and watch my shifting - I don't shift under load unless absolutely neccessary and then I "soft pedal" a 1/2 stroke to make the change.
    Yeah. Deore FDs are great, cost about $15, and are about the same weight as the XTRs.

  21. #21
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    My HT has XT shifters and an LX front derailleur; my FS has X.0 shifters and an XT front derailleur. The FD shifting on my FS is worlds better than on my HT, and I don't think the difference is all due to the shifters.
    Last edited by TLud; 07-05-2006 at 08:19 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Yeah right. Removing links from either chain takes about the same amount of time.

    You should have given me your spare XTR chains.
    Removing links isn't the hard part.

  23. #23
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    And Powerlinks are still way easier than using a chain tool and pins. I like Sram chains, but use Shimano everything else.

  24. #24
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    I run all Shimano. I may put a 12-26 PG970 cassette on my road bike, but that's it. I tried X9 triggers with an X0 rear and didn't like it. I like rapid rise best. I do run an XT pod and Ultegra rear on the urban bike. I prefer DA/XTR chains, but use sram power links on the chains. I don't like Sram chains like some folks do. If I don't run Shimano I run KMC or IRD.

  25. #25
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    Funny that I read this and more folks seem to like Shimano better, but Sram is leading. Do people that like Sram not have a reason or something?

  26. #26
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    I don't like Rapid Rise BTW. Too slow downshifting for my taste.

  27. #27
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    I destroyed a set of gripshift in 1996, replaced it with XTR and it is still going strong today.

    Anyone have anything from sram over 5 years old that isn't broken?

    Also, for the money, you can't beat a Shimano hub...unless you ride trials.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLud
    Removing links isn't the hard part.
    No, but it's the part that takes the most time, since you were talking about time.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  29. #29
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    I wont even touch shimano anymore. I used to have so many headaches with adjusting derailers and shifters and ghostshifts... Ughh... I was running a full xt drivetrain, and switched to sram x9 triggers. The difference is night and day. I have not had one single problem with the sram equipped bike. the 1:1 ratio over the 2:1 alone is worth it to go with sram. shifts are so much more crisp, acurate, and consistent.
    "What would happen to the Weather Channel's ratings if people werent scared anymore?"

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No, but it's the part that takes the most time, since you were talking about time.
    He meant that putting a Shimano chain back together is a PITA, and I have to agree.

  31. #31
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    I have SRAM MRX gripshifts on my bike that have been there since the bike was new in 1998 and they still work fine. I am looking to upgrade to the X.0 now since I am going to go to a 9 speed rear cassette and ditch the 7.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    He meant that putting a Shimano chain back together is a PITA, and I have to agree.
    Well, putting a powerlink in the shimano chain is a breeze.

    For those of you willing to work for a stronger interface than is possible with a powerlink/sram chain, install the supplied pin with the shimano chain.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  33. #33
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    I have quite a mix of kit on my 3 bikes.

    All SRAM chains, as I find they last better then Shimano, and there's none of the special pin garbage.

    Shimano cassettes as I find they last better than SRAM - both wear and bending from collision damage

    I use Blackspire chainrings as Shimano ones wear out too quickly

    Rear mechs - I have a mixture, but much prefer the SRAM X7, both for positive shifting and also the much cleaner cable entry.

    Front mechs - all Shimano simply because I haven't replaced one for ages

    Shifters - I prefer the positive action and thumb-thumb action of SRAM, the only downside I've found is that the long lever (certainly on X9 and rocket) can bend if you smack your knee hard enough against it, and it's a SOB to straighten...

    Alaric.

  34. #34
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    I had ridden an XT/XTR equipped bike for years, but went SRAM on my new bike and don't know if I'll go back. My current setup is as follows:

    XT Front Derailleur
    X.O. Rear Derailleur
    X.O. Twist Shifter (Front)
    X.O. Trigger Shirter (Rear)
    XT Cassette
    Dura Ace/XTR CN-7701 9 spd chain

    It's turned out to be quite a nice mix. I was trying to keep the weight and the price of the drivetrain down, so I went with the XT cassette and the Shimano chain. The shifting is quick and precise on the X.O. rear, and I really like the adjustable two thumb paddle design of the X.O. trigger shifter. The twist/trigger shifter mix is the best part of the drivetrain though. On my old bike, I'd just have to put up with the annoying grating of chain rub in some gears, but no more, a simple click of the twist shifter and the chain rub is gone.

  35. #35
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    SRAM X5 grip shift, X5 rear derailleur, SRAM 11-32 8 speed cassette, PC58 chain, and a Shimano Deore front derailleur.

    A budget system that works incredibly well--and the super-weak 9-speed chain is absent.

    Why SRAM?
    Shimano's funny-looking front derailleur is devine. Everything else Shimano got itself evicted due to maintenance and heavy weight.
    With SRAM, the bike is nearly a pound lighter, the components cost less, and it is trouble-free. Gear changes are almost gearhub quality in smoothness. Rear derailleur/chain drag is far less than with Shimano.

    Surprisingly, the PC58 chain isn't as good as Shimano's lowly HG70, but it is nice.

  36. #36
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    sram x7 front on sram x gen, sram attack on XT rear D. sram cassette and chain. Works very well, much prefer the thumb shifting of sram. Less exposed to damage with the indicators, and, easy to change the cables. Hard to go back to shimano shifters once you get used to sram.

  37. #37
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    Well this poll is looking very definitive, SRAM is definitely the popular choice NAH with a whopping 92 votes compared to 8446 on the MTBR official poll, I think I'll go with that cross section I'm no SRAM hater, I just have Shimano and it works for cheap.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  38. #38
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    Sram X9 all the way, with twist grips. I still have a Shimano XT cassette and front mech on one of my bikes. I think Shimano lost the plot with the combined brake/gear levers.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Well this poll is looking very definitive, SRAM is definitely the popular choice NAH with a whopping 92 votes compared to 8446 on the MTBR official poll, I think I'll go with that cross section I'm no SRAM hater, I just have Shimano and it works for cheap.
    Mass market high volume heavily marketed stuff always comes out on top in this kind of poll. I'm not a Shimano hater either, but I prefer Sram shifters and mechs.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  40. #40
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    I think the winner will be the first to come up with a new drivetrain system completely different from what we are using, ie internal geared or hydro shifting. There is only so much you can do to a chain and cassete to make it any better

  41. #41
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    I voted shimano, finger/thumb is better than double thumb IMHO

    And given MHO is always right I suppose Shimano is better

    Except Shimano chains (there so damn easy to break! grrrr)

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    I think the winner will be the first to come up with a new drivetrain system completely different from what we are using, ie internal geared or hydro shifting. There is only so much you can do to a chain and cassete to make it any better
    I agree, but not so easy or everyone would be doing it!! Hydraulic shifting would be awesome, but you really need a hydraulic pump and accumulator, neither of which are feasible to drive on a bike. Perhaps you could do it with a simple hydraulic line working against a spring and ratchet?

    I guess the ultimate would be a CVT of some kind, so you wouldn't need any shifters at all. I digress. For now it's Sram X9 for me
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  43. #43
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    Don't know how you guys manage to break these chains I've been running HG53 chains since last year October and haven't managed to break one yet - they suck at getting rust on them very easily, but never broke one. I do use the SRAM Powerlink though - damn fine system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Australia
    Except Shimano chains (there so damn easy to break! grrrr)
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  44. #44
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    I dunno. But I've had a horrible time breaking chains from all the brands I've tried. I broke two in races last year. One Shimano, one Sram. Broke a couple more on regular rides. I'm not very big either. 5'11". 130#. I've got a Wipperman on one of my bikes that seems to be holding up better. Damn expensive though.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Don't know how you guys manage to break these chains
    When many people say that they broke shimano chains and switched to SRAM, they are talking about many years ago when the shimano chains were fairly inferior to the SRAM (actually Sachs) chains. Shimano has since changed them, and now has a much stronger and more reliable chain. Many people have that "bad taste" left in their mouth, or they simply don't install the special pin correctly, they just push in a pin that they pushed out, and that usually leads to failure. I haven't had a shimano chain fail since about 2001 or so, whenever they came out with the newer dura-ace/xtr chain, and since then they've applied the same design to all of their chains. I have had Sram chains fail since that time, but back in the day they were better than the equivalant shimano product.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    I dunno. But I've had a horrible time breaking chains from all the brands I've tried. I broke two in races last year. One Shimano, one Sram. Broke a couple more on regular rides. I'm not very big either. 5'11". 130#. I've got a Wipperman on one of my bikes that seems to be holding up better. Damn expensive though.
    You're obviously doing something wrong if you've managed to break 4 chains in a single year!
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  47. #47
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    Well since this has turned into a chain thread I might as well throw in my 2c. First of all as mentioned above. If you're constantly breaking chains, you're doing something wrong. An sram chain is not better than a shimano chain because of a powerlink. A powerlink works just as well on a shimano chain (even if Sram says it don't) if you so wish to use it instead of the special connector pin. Installation time is the same given you compare the same installation method. Powerlinks are quite as notorious for failing as imporperly installed shimano pins. Properly installed the shimano pins provide the strongest joint comparable to a factory pressed pin. For the last 5 or 6 years all Shimano chains have been hammered and mushroom towards the ends to keep the plates from slipping off. Anytime you see a shimano chain failure notice 95% of the time its at the splice joint, not the factory pins. Sram chains typically break at random links. I think recently Sram has finally started stamping out the pin ends of their chains.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Many people have that "bad taste" left in their mouth, or they simply don't install the special pin correctly, they just push in a pin that they pushed out, and that usually leads to failure.
    Exactly. I've noticed a lot of people reusing the factory pressed pins. The mushroomed tip will actually cut off a chunk from the plate when its push back through leaving an oversized hole that is not making any press fit with the pin. Anyone can test this themselves. Get a few links of shimano chain, press a pin off a plate and repress it back in. You'll see the metal shaving it carved out of the plate opening as it oversized it. The special connector pin is specifically sized and grooved to account for this expansion.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    You're obviously doing something wrong if you've managed to break 4 chains in a single year!
    One was a brand new SRAM chain, very first ride. I shortened it to length, put the PowerLink on, and on a out of saddle effort on a steep climb it snapped. That was one of the race ones. One wasn't really my fault I'd say, but kind of unsurprising. I got a stick in my RD, which spun it around, and the chain got wedged between the dropout and casette. One of the links got twisted, and since I'd forgotten my chain tool at home, all I could do was stick a pair of allen wrenches into the neighboring links and twist it back. That link broke on an out of the saddle effort a few miles later. One was like the first, except that that the chain was about 100 miles old. That's the other race one. And the last one the chain was really old and probably should have been replaced already. That was on my commuter bike, and was the only Shimano of the four. I hadn't moved any of the pins on any of them except to shorten them to fit. The Shimano didn't fail at the pin that I inserted.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    One was a brand new SRAM chain, very first ride. I shortened it to length, put the PowerLink on, and on a out of saddle effort on a steep climb it snapped. That was one of the race ones. One wasn't really my fault I'd say, but kind of unsurprising. I got a stick in my RD, which spun it around, and the chain got wedged between the dropout and casette. One of the links got twisted, and since I'd forgotten my chain tool at home, all I could do was stick a pair of allen wrenches into the neighboring links and twist it back. That link broke on an out of the saddle effort a few miles later. One was like the first, except that that the chain was about 100 miles old. That's the other race one. And the last one the chain was really old and probably should have been replaced already. That was on my commuter bike, and was the only Shimano of the four. I hadn't moved any of the pins on any of them except to shorten them to fit. The Shimano didn't fail at the pin that I inserted.
    Perhaps you over-shortened it? Maybe there's something wrong with your rear mech? Or you could be just very unlucky!!
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Perhaps you over-shortened it? Maybe there's something wrong with your rear mech? Or you could be just very unlucky!!
    Well, those were on 3 different bikes, so I think we can leave out the rear dereilleur. The chains were fine lengths, and I don't see how that would matter anyway. I guess I am just unlucky then.

  52. #52
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    Weird to be breaking chains like that, what torque you putting out : D
    Seriously I'm 6'2" & 175+ and I'm a masher and haven't broken a chain yet since I got my Trance and have used HG53 & 73 chains aswell as a SRAM PC59 - broke a improperly installed powerlink when I first started using them, but that's it.

    Is it happening because of bad gear combo's, too short a chain or suspension expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Well, those were on 3 different bikes, so I think we can leave out the rear dereilleur. The chains were fine lengths, and I don't see how that would matter anyway. I guess I am just unlucky then.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLud
    Hard to do a meaningful poll on this. I have both SRAM and Shimano on both of my bikes. I prefer SRAM for some components and Shimano for others. I suspect that this is true for many other riders as well.
    i've found that almost everything i've put on my bikes work pretty well until i break them or the parts just simply wear out. that said, the lower end components i've used (read stx and alivio) have tended to wear out/break sooner than mid/high end stuff.

    sell me something durable and reasonably priced and i really don't care who makes it.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Weird to be breaking chains like that, what torque you putting out : D
    Seriously I'm 6'2" & 175+ and I'm a masher and haven't broken a chain yet since I got my Trance and have used HG53 & 73 chains aswell as a SRAM PC59 - broke a improperly installed powerlink when I first started using them, but that's it.

    Is it happening because of bad gear combo's, too short a chain or suspension expansion?
    Suspension? Look at my user name! Bad gear combos? Nope. I only run a single 32 tooth chainring, so there aren't any bad combos really. Chain length is fine. And I have no idea what my max power output is, but I'm a skinny little bastard at 5'11", 133#.

  55. #55
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    Brand doesn't really matter to me. If it works and doesn't cost that much its good.
    cassete-sram
    front/rear der.-shimano
    chain-sram
    shifters-shimano
    levers-maybe gonna be avid? (my old ones died)
    cable housing- avid

  56. #56
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    I couldnt care less which brand I use (except Campy for road biking) except for SRAM cassettes, I had 4 of my 8 cogs snap in half at the exact same time one day. I was riding some up and down single track and on one of the hills I had to pedal to get over, the first stroke snapped them all. It felt awful and I heard the cogs clink off the ground which was kinda funny in hindsight. I was in the middle in the rear and one broke and then the 3 below broke so I assume when the chain caught on them after the previous ones broke they snapped too, who knows but the ride home sucked, mashing up hills in 32-11

    On a brighter note, I love the Avid Mechs for the price and the full metal jacket brake cables and housing are totally worth the extra 15 bucks for anyone running mechs

  57. #57
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    Did someone mention that mechs/derailleurs had adoration for Avid brake cables? That would be most unusual.

    Chain breakage?

    Well, 9 speed SRAM, Shimano, and KMC chains just break, even if they aren't installed too-short or backwards.
    1) Shimano pin joint systems are directional.
    2) Only 1/2" too short will double the frequency of breakage.

    For instance, just start off harshly in 34 (rear) against 24 (front) to see just how fast a 9 speed chain will break. Please do NOT do this if you have an XT 11-32 rear cassette (4 weak aluminum arms instead of 5 as in the XT 11-34), although LX and XTR 11-32 are just fine.
    Anyway, SNAP!

    And, you can see just how easy it is to break all EXCEPT Campy's 9-speed chain.
    Campy's chain shifts poorly on new-and-never-used Shimano cassettes because it is a thicker (stronger) chain. Yet it can work fine on a modestly used Shimano cassette. Inspect 1 foot of this to see that exactly 24 inches fit in a foot, spindle to spindle at the first 2000 miles and every 1000 miles thereafter.

    Second best is
    a brand new Dura-Ace chain that is NOT installed backwards (rotational direction is specific).
    However, it is recommended to replace it every 1000 miles if used with a MTB rear cassette or every 2000 miles if used with a "Road" rear cassette. Larger rear cogs wear chains faster.

    Now, why would anyone complain that Campy costs twice as much? No, it doesn't. The "selling price" is higher, but the "cost" is much lower. And, it is a safer product.

    The 9 speed systems need much more frequent lubrication because they are weaker. Gotta help them somehow!

    Please use a CLEAR lubricant and not cloudy white or black. EPIC is good for mountain bikes, Singer is good for road bikes, low temperatures, infrequent maintenance, and a quick way to get disfunctional lubricants off the chain. Those are clear. Epic stays cleaner than Singer, but Epic doesn't automatically clean your chain. Who could decide?

    Non-clear lubricants (white lightening, teflon gunk) never reach the insides of chains, thus leading to additional breakage.

    This has all been "in my opinion"--because I tried it.

    Good luck! Don't forget to pack the patch pins and tool!
    For this reason, the 9 speed system is actually heavier.

  58. #58
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    Sorry about the chain thing.

    But, 8-speed and 9-speed aren't easily comparable.

    Who's 8 is better? At a higher price point, Shimano's 8 is far stronger than SRAM's 8 and less drag than SRAM's 8.
    However, the SRAM is usually lighter weight, slicker shifting, and at a lower price point. This confuses the issue. But the clear performance winner is unquestionably Shimano's 8. With less drag, Shimano is king of the 8.

    Who's 9 is better? That one is easy. SRAM!
    It just stays adjusted and works trouble-free.

    There's a catch. There's a whopping big catch.

    During high performance use, Shimano's 8 won't let you down. 9-speed options will, and that's why I went off on the chain thing. Weak chains mean that there is NO 9 speed system that is stronger than Shimano's 8 speed system.

    So, it doesn't matter how wonderful SRAM, the 9 speed king, is--if your chain is on the ground.
    Same goes for Shimano's inferior 9 speed system.
    Avoid them or, someday, there'll be a nice long walk.

    That's a big catch, isn't it?

    Got a 9 speed?

    Good news!
    The fix is pretty cheap!
    Only 3 parts needed:
    * Right side, 8 speed shifter (airbomb.com, QBP)
    * 8 speed cassette (Nashbar's current sale)
    * 8 speed chain ($12 HG70 is stronger than what you had before)

    No more trouble.

  59. #59
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    I've got SRAM and Shimano on my bikes. i like & i have issues with both

    what i like about SRAM X-gen front derailleurs is you have one size fits all. none of this seat tube specific crap, and i can swap it out to another bike if i had to later down the road.

    the XTR Frnt D i have on my Ells, well it'll only fit that sized seat tube. and the performance is no better than the $19 x-gen i've got... yeah it looks better.

    SRAM chains are the bomb and haven't used a Shimano in over 6 years

    Rear Derailleurs. the design of the SRAM's just make sense in the way the shifter cable routes thru. from the top. no need for a rollamajig. the shimano you end up with a bigass cable loop coming down the stay to route that figgin cable into the back/bottom...dumb

    Shifters Shimano has the shiznit! i like the push/pull triggers on the SRAM it's push/push and that always screws me up when i switch bikes from one ride to the next, going from Shim to Sram. it's all backwards imo.

    i've yet to find a shifter that is smoother than XTR... but i've never tried SRAM's topshelf stuff.

    Cassettes SRAM (been using for about 4.5years even on Shim drivetrain) they seem to last a little long than the Shimano (for me anyway) plus this years stuff is so bliggy you gotta love it!

  60. #60
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    Well danielhaden I've done all of the things you say you shouldn't do with a 9spd drivetrain and haven't snapped a chain yet - I use white lightning lube, I'm a masher, I start off in granny if it requires it, heck I even use granny in some parts of trails and "kick" it to get accross/up stuff, never put on a Shimano chain "directionally" yet and YET I'm still riding these chains out to their life expectancy=1/32" -1/16" stretch. Oh yeh I've put it through crap loads of mud, so much so that the damn chain was squeaking so bad and still it didn't snap when I stood up on it and hammered. Maybe all this points to is my skinny 190+lbs w/ gear body doesn't produce enough power to snap a chain, one of these days I'll have to ask the fellas behind me what they think as they get to the top of the hills etc.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  61. #61
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    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.
    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs)
    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts
    Sram owns RockShox (love the Reba), Avid (rollin' on the sram pads for over 1.5 years), Truvativ (low end stuff is high end stuff) - Yes this was irrelivant to the Sram vs. Shimano, I know

    Shimano has chains that I've broken and I've seen friends break.
    Shimano has cassettes that last maybe 3 months in muddy stuff
    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast
    Shimano's shifters have craked and split open on rides
    Shimano's rear derai... takes 5 seconds to shift and is ugly
    Shimano's front derai... works flawlessly and I love it.
    Shimano can be found on $100 "Roadmasters" - a good and a bad thing depending on which way you look at it.
    Shimano's shoes velcrow lasts as long as those evil Ferbie dolls.
    Shimano's shoes are great.
    Shimano can be overpriced
    Shimano takes advantage of you (see below)
    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks
    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes
    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters
    Shimano sponsers NORBA races which keeps entry costs sorta down...sort of.
    Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers

    Shimano is okay for front derail...s, shoes and ????
    but
    Sram is new and has durable stuff that works for not too much $$$.

    This may have sounded bias...yes it was because I LOVE SRAM!
    I like bicycles. Bicycles make me happy. Riding them makes me even happier.
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  62. #62
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    Yeah, I haven't snapped a 9-speed chain yet either. I try to keep my drivetrain in good condition, change the chain when the chain checker indicates over 1% stretch (approx 6-8 months moderate use) and try not to act like an animal when shifting gears. So far, this has kept my chain tool at the bottom of my Camelbak for thousands of smooth pedalling and shifting miles.

    Here's my list of possible reasons for snapping a chain:-

    Worn out old chain - they don't last forever
    Poor suspension design - eg. excessive pedal feedback from suspension movement
    Poor drivetrain installation - chain too short/long, indexing setup badly
    Poor drivetrain maintenance - corrosion, skipping gears, worn out rear mech, etc
    Lack of mechanical sympathy - rock ape gearshifts, continuing to mash the pedals when the chain has fallen off etc.

    If you install and maintain your drivetrain properly and learn to shift smoothly, chains rarely break!!
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.
    You must NEVER ride your bike.

    Or you have access to some top secret high tech material that the rest of the world doesn't.

  64. #64
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    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.
    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs)
    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts
    Sram owns RockShox (love the Reba), Avid (rollin' on the sram pads for over 1.5 years), Truvativ (low end stuff is high end stuff) - Yes this was irrelivant to the Sram vs. Shimano, I know

    Shimano has chains that I've broken and I've seen friends break.
    Shimano has cassettes that last maybe 3 months in muddy stuff
    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast
    Shimano's shifters have craked and split open on rides
    Shimano's rear derai... takes 5 seconds to shift and is ugly
    Shimano's front derai... works flawlessly and I love it.
    Shimano's shoes velcrow lasts as long as those evil Ferbie dolls.
    Shimano's shoes are great.
    Shimano can be overpriced
    Shimano takes advantage of you (see below)
    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks
    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes
    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters
    Shimano sponsers NORBA races which keeps entry costs sorta down...sort of.
    Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers

    In case anyone was wondering, I'm showing whick statements I agree with/ disagree with. I left out the Roadmaster bit because I'm not too opinionated on that, and it put me over my smilie limit.

  65. #65
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    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.


    If you never ride your bike

    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs)

    Shimano's shifter can now be shifted with your thumb OR your index. Yep, they copied it from Sram, but then again Sram copied trigger pods in general.

    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts

    Don't know where you buy now but Sram prices now make XTR look like a budget froup.

    Shimano has cassettes that last maybe 3 months in muddy stuff

    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast

    They last about the same as everyone else who makes aluminium chainrings. I've yet to see magic aluminium that doesn't wear out.

    Shimano can be found on $100 "Roadmasters" - a good and a bad thing depending on which way you look at it.

    And my sister once bought an $89 sears bike with Sram gripshifters. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

    Shimano's shoes are great.

    Actually I stay away from them. They make my feet go numb real bad. Sidi for me.

    Shimano can be overpriced

    X.0. costs how much!!!

    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks

    Or you can do your research instead of saying nonsesnse and buy XT brakes which are the same with the standard rotors. Saint brakes are specifically sold with the special rotor so you can use them with the large hubs.

    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes

    Funny how for all the crap they supposedly don't invent refine or whatever, everyone else is scrambling to equal or adopt their solutions.

    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters

    Sram has those god awfull twist shifters.

    Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers

    Rocks make me spend too much on hangers.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by brado1
    what i like about SRAM X-gen front derailleurs is you have one size fits all. none of this seat tube specific crap, and i can swap it out to another bike if i had to later down the road.
    News flash, Shimano moved to one size fits all and dual pull front derailleurs 3-4 years ago. And they also offer top and bottom swing which Sram has yet to do. Lots of people have bought X-gen derailleurs to realize they don't fit on their frame.

  67. #67
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    I voted doesnt matter but I do prefer shimano shifters over sram and a sram chain over a shimano. Ive been on both companies and had equal success with each one.
    Hiking is just walking where its okay to pee... Sometimes old people go hiking by accident. -Demetri Martin-

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    If you never ride your bike
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Shimano's shifter can now be shifted with your thumb OR your index. Yep, they copied it from Sram, but then again Sram copied trigger pods in general.
    True dat. I forgot.....

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Don't know where you buy now but Sram prices now make XTR look like a budget froup.
    Well, the X.O is stoopid expensive, but the X.9 and X.7 components are a great value.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    They last about the same as everyone else who makes aluminium chainrings. I've yet to see magic aluminium that doesn't wear out.
    If you find some lemme know, OK? I want some.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano can be found on $100 "Roadmasters" - a good and a bad thing depending on which way you look at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    And my sister once bought an $89 sears bike with Sram gripshifters. Not sure what this has to do with anything.
    Nor do I. Seems totally irrelivant.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano's shoes are great.
    Quote Originally Posted by hecubus

    Actually I stay away from them. They make my feet go numb real bad. Sidi for me.
    Me too. Exactly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano can be overpriced
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    X.0. costs how much!!!
    I think that X.0 is too expensive, but would say the same for certain pieces of the XTR groupset, particularly the cranks and chainrings.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Or you can do your research instead of saying nonsesnse and buy XT brakes which are the same with the standard rotors. Saint brakes are specifically sold with the special rotor so you can use them with the large hubs.
    True, but the Saint dereilleur set up is pretty propritary. You're both half right.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Funny how for all the crap they supposedly don't invent refine or whatever, everyone else is scrambling to equal or adopt their solutions.
    Shimano does inovate. External bearing BBs come to mind. They at least popularized those. They invented DualControl shifters, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Sram has those god awfull twist shifters.
    I personally hate both of those designs. This is just personal preferance though. Actually, this whole friggen' arguement is preference.

    [quote=RideFaster]Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Rocks make me spend too much on hangers.
    I have more of a problem with sticks.
    Last edited by Hardtails Are Better; 07-12-2006 at 07:15 PM.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    News flash, Shimano moved to one size fits all and dual pull front derailleurs 3-4 years ago. And they also offer top and bottom swing which Sram has yet to do. Lots of people have bought X-gen derailleurs to realize they don't fit on their frame.
    goes to show how old my XTR front derailleur is huh? thanks for the update

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus

    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast

    They last about the same as everyone else who makes aluminium chainrings. I've yet to see magic aluminium that doesn't wear out.
    Aluminium alloys (nobody uses pure aluminium) vary massively from cheese to rock hard. I find that Shimano alloy rings are closer to the cheese end of the spectrum, which seems to be a common complaint. I use an XT HT2 crankset with Race Face replacement rings, which last about twice as long as the XT rings. I use a steel granny ring too.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  71. #71
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    I'll have to basically agree with all of Hecubus' retorts except about the chainrings - Shimano's XT chainrings absolutely suck and are definitely softer than any others I've tried, they are super lightweight and soft as hell.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  72. #72
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    I've gotten reasonable to very good life out of the average shimano rings as do most of my riding buddies. I've also put about as much time into Race Face rings since I've always had one Race Face, and one Shimano (usually XTR) cranked bike which get about equal use for the last 6 years or so, so i get a very nice side by side comparison. In the end when all the factors are compared the only real differences and conclusions I can draw are that the Shimano ones are more expensive and the Race Face ones don't shift anywhere near as flawlessly. The Race Face ones last roughly the same.

  73. #73
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    SRAM convert

    I am somewhat emotionally attached to the the traditional trigger system used in Shimano, but having used a SRAM X-7 thumbie triggers, w/ both an X-7 and an X-9 rear D, I have to say that the SRAM 1:1 system is far superior in general.

    I currently have XTR on my bike, and it took alot of tuning to finally get it to work as good as the midrange SRAM systems I've tried. I am strangely actually looking forward to the day when my drivetrain breaks down enough that I can replace it all with Sram.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Sram has chains that never break.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out.

    If you never ride your bike

    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs)

    Shimano's shifter can now be shifted with your thumb OR your index. Yep, they copied it from Sram, but then again Sram copied trigger pods in general.

    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts

    Don't know where you buy now but Sram prices now make XTR look like a budget froup.

    Shimano has cassettes that last maybe 3 months in muddy stuff

    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast

    They last about the same as everyone else who makes aluminium chainrings. I've yet to see magic aluminium that doesn't wear out.

    Shimano can be found on $100 "Roadmasters" - a good and a bad thing depending on which way you look at it.

    And my sister once bought an $89 sears bike with Sram gripshifters. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

    Shimano's shoes are great.

    Actually I stay away from them. They make my feet go numb real bad. Sidi for me.

    Shimano can be overpriced

    X.0. costs how much!!!

    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks

    Or you can do your research instead of saying nonsesnse and buy XT brakes which are the same with the standard rotors. Saint brakes are specifically sold with the special rotor so you can use them with the large hubs.

    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes

    Funny how for all the crap they supposedly don't invent refine or whatever, everyone else is scrambling to equal or adopt their solutions.

    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters

    Sram has those god awfull twist shifters.

    Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers

    Rocks make me spend too much on hangers.

    Agreed, I personally dont' care what people ride but i love it when they are presented with facts and they crawl back into their hole. People who ride their bikes dont' need to tougt sram is best or shimano is best (or any manufactuer for that matter). Ride your bike and be happy.

  75. #75
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    Boxers or Briefs...or boxer briefs?

    I'm building a bike and faced with the ultimate decision. Stay with my XTR or move to X.O. The price quoted on X.0 is awesome. My XTR is moody sometimes, but I know it well so it takes a couple minutes to dial it in.

    I had X.9 and really liked them but always had issues with accidental shifts with my thumb. Took awhile to find the right set up to avoid that.

    XTR does cause a ton of chain slap. I sound like Santa Clause when I'm going downhill.

    I have LX triggers which are going in the trash. They have 800 miles on them (2004) and I just think they take too long to engage.

    When looking at both, I think it all evens out in the end. Personal preference

  76. #76
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    I have been riding Shimano since 1991. I was intrigued last year when I saw that SRAM developed some trigger shifters. After an emergency buy of some Twisters back in the day(when they were called Gripshift back in 1994) I noticed my whole position changed on the bike due to my right arm having to be ready to twist. Bad!!! No twisters for me ever again.
    So this year I was given a bike with SRAM x-9 components.
    SRAM X-9 shifters leave a lot to be desired. If you don't have them positioned far into the bar, your knuckles will hit the triggers and shift when you don't want them to shift. So now I have to adjust my to my shifters being so far into the bar. In order to stop this the positioning is awkward, especially when combined with a SRAM poplock. The poplock has to be mounted in a weird way as well. With Rockshock and SRAM being the same company, why aren't their components integrated better?
    X GEN front Der. Where to I start with this piece of crap. It is HUGE and heavy. It won't shift under loads. I even took it to the SRAM guys at Nationals and they couldn't even get it adjusted correctly. IT DOESN'T WORK!!!
    X-9 Rear Der. It works ok. Not too much to complain about except it is heavy, and continually ghost shifts(I ride a 29er hardtail) even after a SRAM booth adjustment.
    SRAM Chains- They make the best chain, no complaints. But then again. didn't it used to be Sachs or something?
    If X.9 is supposed to be the XT equivalent, then Shimano is clearly superior. I am not a Shimano homer, but I rarely have problems with my stuff. XT and XTR are great gruppos. While SRAM may have a good X0 rear der. and some light shifters OVERALL the big S has better prices, and equipment.
    my .02
    paz afuera

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Sram has chains that never break. - no, but i prefer sram over shimano on chains. connex over both.
    Sram has cassettes that never wear out. - having built many many scram and shimano equiped bikes i have to say shimano wins hands down, sram quality control is sad at best. they last the same.
    Sram has a great shiting design (1:1 ratio and the cool shifters that you shift w/your thumbs) can you say gimmic? the cable routting does help tho.
    Sram has inexpensive stuff that lasts sx4 shifters are junk, F Derailleur's are junk, seen anumber of problems involving x7 shifters, tho they are alot better than sx4's.
    Sram owns RockShox (love the Reba), Avid (rollin' on the sram pads for over 1.5 years), Truvativ (low end stuff is high end stuff) - Yes this was irrelivant to the Sram vs. Shimano, I know ISIS BB's suck. no way around it. RS has a nice lineup but ill take marzocchi or fox anyday.

    Shimano has chains that I've broken and I've seen friends break. shimano has weak black pins, and it sucks you cant press pins.
    Shimano has cassettes that last maybe 3 months in muddy stuff iv rode all winter here in alaska without a cassette problem, get a xt or bust.
    Shimano crankset's teeth wear out fast it's called aluminum, sram wears out too.
    Shimano's shifters have craked and split open on rides mmkay
    Shimano's rear derai... takes 5 seconds to shift and is ugly compair them while new and 5 to 10 years later, they will be very close when new, im not sure if a sram will make it to 5 years.
    Shimano's front derai... works flawlessly and I love it. yeah i agree, but it's just a front der
    Shimano's shoes velcrow lasts as long as those evil Ferbie dolls. ?
    Shimano's shoes are great.
    Shimano can be overpriced can you say xo? xo is pretty nice tho
    Shimano takes advantage of you (see below) k
    Shimano makes you buy their Saint Wheels, Saint derai...ers, Saint shiters etc. where all you wanted were Saint breaks
    Shimano is boring and has used the same stuff for years now with few changes that's the key behind the new trend.
    Shimano has the awful dual control shifters true
    Shimano sponsers NORBA races which keeps entry costs sorta down...sort of.
    Shimano has made me spend too much on derai... hangers

    In case anyone was wondering, I'm showing whick statements I agree with/ disagree with. I left out the Roadmaster bit because I'm not too opinionated on that, and it put me over my smilie limit.

    i like the x9 and x0 series, some of teh x7. iv seen anumber of sram cassettes that wont shift for S$%# on new bikes... as for ghost shifting.. it's got nothing to do with "2:1" cable pull, it's about cable condition and tension. iv got 10 year old xt rear derailleur's with 1000's of miles on the that shift fine, the only real advantage i see with sram over shimano is the cable routting.
    Large hills tell only truth

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