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  1. #1
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    Salsa Casseroll. 1x10 or 1x9 set up. Noob needs some advice.

    G'day fella's.

    Well, either im blind, or I just haven't been able to find a 1x9 or 1x10 Casseroll on here for tips and reference. Im not clued up on the technical side of things. There is alot of information required i need to learn to make this work. So here it goes. I was a little put off bike shops when I walked into one and said I want to set up a road bike with drop bars and MTB gearing, and then told it can't be done ??. They obviously don't want my business ? So I thought id try you guys.Any advice much appreciated.

    As I said, I want a 1x9 or 1x10 set up. I have a Casseroll frame with the original bottom bracket still installed (Sugino 68x103 square taper). I dont fully understand the bottom bracket sizing as yet. 68 I would imagine is the diameter, and 103 the length of the spindle ? I have a set of Dura Ace 7850 CL clinchers on the way.

    My plan is to put an 11-34T cassette outback.I would actually prefer an 11-36T cassette but haven't been able to find one at a reasonable price yet. or more accurately, a rear derailer that will suit it at a reasonable price. I want to run a SS crank on the front. Im thinking of a Sugino 75 with 48T ring. Will these fit on the bottom bracket ?

    Im undecided on the rear derailer. I was thinking of a Shimano Saint RD. Or a Sram. Theor 1:1 actuation has me intrigued.

    Ive been able to nut out most of the info I need for this build. But i still need to figure out how the chain is going to work. Im aware that the chain needs to be a 3/32. And a 1/8 chain wont work with the cassettes ive mentioned. I think the width of the bottom bracket is important, and the way the crank chain ring lines up with the rear cassette for ease of shifting and chain wear needs to be set up correctly. This is what im unable to work out.

    If anyone here can point me out in the right direction. It would be very much appreciated.

    Cheers

    Steve

  2. #2
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    Post this in the drivetrain forum, you will get more of a response there.

    Edit: OOPS!! We ARE on the drivetrain board. I thought I was on the Salsa board.
    Last edited by kapusta; 11-17-2010 at 07:31 AM.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  3. #3
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    Here's a couple of answers...

    You're mostly right on the BB info...68mm is the width of the frame's BB shell and 103mm is the length of the spindle. The Sugino 75 track cranks are speced to work with a 109mm spindle so the arms may contact the chainstays if you use it on a 103mm spindle. You may also have ring clearance issues with a ring as large as a 48 tooth. The only way to know for sure if it'll work or not is to try the specific combo you're looking to try. You'll also have to change out the stock chainring to work with a geared (3/32") chain as the 75s track ring is 1/8" only.

    You'll definitely need a 3/32" chain on any geared set-up. 1/8" chains are SS only.

    Shimano makes a fairly cheap 12-36 tooth 9 speed cassette. It's the HG-61 model.

    You'll probably need a MTB rear derailleur with either an 11-34 or 11-36 tooth cassette on a road frame. The combination of the frame's shorter hanger and a road rear derailleur's capacity may be problematic. Again, certain combinations may work but the only way to know is to try them...gets expensive if they don't work.

    With drop bars, you'll either need to use a bar-end shifter or an STI. Shimano STI's (at least the 9 speed) shift MTB rear derailleurs just fine. I'm less sure about SRAM's stuff or Shimano's 10 speed stuff. I think a SRAM 10 speed DoubleTap road shifter will shift an XX 10 speed rear derailleur though. If it were me, I'd keep it Shimano 9 speed and get a Tiagra rear STI and an MTB rear derailleur.

    My wife's cross bike has an 11-34 cassette, a triple 28/38/48 crankset, Shimano Tiagra STIs, a Shimano Deore long cage rear derailleur, and Ultegra wheels. It's possible to make it work.

  4. #4
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    Kapusta. Cheers mate lol.

    Nater. Thanks for the feedback. I have looked further into it. The Sugino 75 probably isn't the best choice (1/8 chain being the main reason, they are also quite expensive). I think I might have got my wires crossed here when I posted the first time. The original spec crank set is a Sugino RD2 48T ring crank set. So this shouldn't be a problem clearing the stays right ? I was also thinking of using a Surly front ring to replace the roiginal Sugino aluminium ring later on. The Surly is stainless steel and as far as im aware and come in 3/32 chain width. Which should work with the geared set up. They are also a SS speed tooth design. No ramps or shifting aids built into the teeth. So less chance of the chain popping off.

    My concern here is will this set up work with a rear derailer and cassette on a Shimano freehub ? Will it shift ok ? Will the chain lineup correctly ?

    Your spot on with the HG61. That seems to be the best way to go. I haven't found one yet on various websites I have looked at. But I am sure it will pop up somewhere. They are a fairly common cassette I would imagine.

    I was thinking about using a Shimano XT rear derailer. Unless someone can recommend a more suitable RD ? Although I am not sure which type to get. Being only a single ring up front I would imagine a long cage would not be necessary. Do I go short cage or medium cage? I would have thought medium cage to be the right choice from what I understand..

    With the shifters, I don't want to go STi shifers. Too expensive and are actually a fair bit heavier than down tube shifters. Which is what I want. Dura Ace 9 speed down tube shifters is what I had in mind. Or...Would a 10 speed Dura ace down tube shifter also work ? If so, I could then have the option of going to 10 speed cassette and derailer later on down the track when they are more affordable.

    I wouldn't mind going SRAM. But because I want to use down tube shifters, I think Shimano is the least complicated and most reliable way of making this work. If I were to go Sram, I like the idea of bar end shifters on a bull horn bar. My current fixie has bull horns and I feel very comfortable on them. I'm not sure though how a bull horn would work on a group ride/ racer type set up bike. I guess it would be more suitable to a TT type bike. Also, The SRAM bar end shifters, although they look like a quality piece of kit, are actually quite pricy and twice the weight of down tube shifters. Im not a weight weenie. But it is of somewhat importance. I have a steel frame, so i'm doing what I can to keep the weight reasonable. Under 9kg is my target.

    Cheers

    Steve

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by punchy
    Kapusta. Cheers mate lol.

    Nater. Thanks for the feedback. I have looked further into it. The Sugino 75 probably isn't the best choice (1/8 chain being the main reason, they are also quite expensive). I think I might have got my wires crossed here when I posted the first time. The original spec crank set is a Sugino RD2 48T ring crank set. So this shouldn't be a problem clearing the stays right ? I was also thinking of using a Surly front ring to replace the roiginal Sugino aluminum ring later on. The Surly is stainless steel and as far as im aware and come in 3/32 chain width. Which should work with the geared set up. They are also a SS speed tooth design. No ramps or shifting aids built into the teeth. So less chance of the chain popping off.

    My concern here is will this set up work with a rear derailleur and cassette on a Shimano freehub ? Will it shift ok ? Will the chain lineup correctly ?

    Your spot on with the HG61. That seems to be the best way to go. I haven't found one yet on various websites I have looked at. But I am sure it will pop up somewhere. They are a fairly common cassette I would imagine.

    I was thinking about using a Shimano XT rear derailer. Unless someone can recommend a more suitable RD ? Although I am not sure which type to get. Being only a single ring up front I would imagine a long cage would not be necessary. Do I go short cage or medium cage? I would have thought medium cage to be the right choice from what I understand..

    With the shifters, I don't want to go STi shifers. Too expensive and are actually a fair bit heavier than down tube shifters. Which is what I want. Dura Ace 9 speed down tube shifters is what I had in mind. Or...Would a 10 speed Dura ace down tube shifter also work ? If so, I could then have the option of going to 10 speed cassette and derailer later on down the track when they are more affordable.

    I wouldn't mind going SRAM. But because I want to use down tube shifters, I think Shimano is the least complicated and most reliable way of making this work. If I were to go Sram, I like the idea of bar end shifters on a bull horn bar. My current fixie has bull horns and I feel very comfortable on them. I'm not sure though how a bull horn would work on a group ride/ racer type set up bike. I guess it would be more suitable to a TT type bike. Also, The SRAM bar end shifters, although they look like a quality piece of kit, are actually quite pricy and twice the weight of down tube shifters. Im not a weight weenie. But it is of somewhat importance. I have a steel frame, so i'm doing what I can to keep the weight reasonable. Under 9kg is my target.

    Cheers

    Steve
    Couple things:

    I just got a complete SS Casseroll, with the RD2 crank. The chain that came with the build is a 9 speed chain (SRAM PC 951), so I'm pretty sure that will work for 1x9 or 1x10. Many ss rings do work well for 1x setups, I think you just need to avoid the ones made for 1/8" chains. I use a Salsa ring (no ramps or pins) for a 1x9 setup on my Karate Monkey. Also the Sugino site lists the chainline for the RD2 as 45mm with the 103mm BB, so I think that should be what you want

    I have a Surly SS ring, and it did not work well with a 1x9 setup. It did not seem to like the 9 speed chain.

    One think to consider before you get a 12-36t 9 speed cassette is that it actually has slightly LESS range than an 11-34t. If you want the lower gearing you can just go with a smaller ring.

    Whether you go 9 or 10 speed, if you are using shimano shifters, you want a 9 speed mtb derailleur. Shimano 8 and 9 speed mtb, and 8, 9, and 10 speed road all use derailleurs with the same actuation ratios. 10 speed mtb is different. I am only talking about shimano here. I just set up my wife's raod bike with STI 10 speed shifters and an LX 9 speed mtb deraileur. Works great.

    In terms of cage length, with a single ring you will only need a short cage. with an 11-34 cassette you only need 23t capacity (34 - 11 = 23). Look at the sticky at the top of the page for a detailed explanation.

    I am building this bike up geared, so I am selling my RD2 crank with the 48t ring. Unused. PM if interested.

    Good luck.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the feedback guys. An update on my rig...

    Ive changed the set up a little. Ive decided to go with road gearing instead. Can't really give an accurate explanation. Probably because I won't be hitting hilly rides too often I guess. Adelaide has hills but they aren't too steep. Im hoping I will be ok there. Ive gone for an Ultegra rear derailer with a Shimano HG80 9 speed 11-28T cassette. Awaiting delivery via post. Along with a 9 speed chain.

    I still haven't purchased a front crank/ring combo yet.

    The RD2 you mention (which I have on my Travellers Check/Rohloff bike) is a good choice. However, Ive been trying to find a suitable chain keeper set up for a 48T front ring set up. And up to now, I haven't been able to find anything suitable as a chain keeper for the outer side. 42T-44T chain keepers seem to be the max size they come in. If someone can point me towards a st up for a 48T ring it would be much appreciated.

    My current thoughts...There are crank/ring combo's available in the 42-44T range with outer chain keepers as part of a package. But, will they be sufficient to help me power along at close to 40 km/h in a group ride when they turn the wick up? Or down hill stints ? I guess it depends on my fitness level I know. I am reasonably fit. I currently run a 46/16T fixie and have no problem cruising around 30 km/h at around 80-85 rpm cadence. Above that and it does start to become a little bit of a strain on a long stint. To put it in a different perspective, when I have a rider next to me cranking it up on their big 52T/11T , or close to it, it starts to become a struggle to keep up when im having to crank up the cadence to above 100rpm and maintain that consistency on my fixie.

    If I was to set up a 42T front ring with an 11-28T on the rear it should work fine I would think. But I may be limited for top end speed when the wick is turned up. This won't be an off road cross rig. It will be very much road set up. Thats why im liking a 48T front ring If I can find the right set up for it.

    The reason why I mention the 42T set up is because I have found a relatively cheap deal ...

    "SRAM S300 Cyclocross Single-Ring Crankset: This latest Single-Ring Cross Crank is built around the durable SRAM S300 crankset. Everything you need to convert your cross bike to a single front chainring setup. Featuring a Salsa 42-tooth chainring and a Salsa crossing guard outer guard to keep your chain in place. The Crankset comes complete with a SRAM GXP bottom bracket and a 3rd Eye Chain Watcher to prevent the chain from falling off the inside as well. "

    The above set up seems like a good buy. Only $99. But I need some advice on it. Will it be a suitable option for what I want to do ? Will the GXP Bottom bracket fit my Salsa Casseroll frame ?

    Thoughts please ?

    Cheers

    Steve

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