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  1. #1
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    Saint Rear Derailleur/Horizontal Dropout question

    I am looking into putting a Saint rear derailleur on my bike but I am a bit confused as to which one I need. My bike has Horizontal dropouts and a rear derailleur mount. Looking at the exploded drawings of the saint rear derailleur it seems as though it is a conventional derailleur setup with what equates to an integrated Therapy Components ďthe sinnerĒ derailleur guard (or equivalent). Now, Iíve seen a number of people refer to the ability of using a Saint derailleur to convert a single speed to a geared bike, but based on the drawings I seeÖ that isnít the case... you still need the derailleur mount, the axle mount is in addition to the derailleur mount, not in lieu of it. Saint derailleurs used to have to be specified as to if it was going to be used with a horizontal or vertical dropout. Iím not really sure as to why it would matter because the spacing/relative position of the axle to the derailleur mount should be the same regardless, the only thing that changes is how you get the wheel to that location. The new ones (like the Non-rapidrise one) donít seem to have to be specified as to dropout type anymore. Here are the questions:

    Can you use a Vertical dropout saint derailleur on a bike with horizontal dropouts?

    What exactly differentiates the two?

    Did the Saint Derailleurs for horizontal dropouts come with something that made them work on singlespeed bikes and I was just misunderstanding what differentiated the two models?

  2. #2
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    Info

    The difference between the horiz. and vert. dropout versions is a "key" on the adapter that fits into the dropout to prevent the derailleur from rotating. The "key" is horizontal to fit into horizontal dropouts or at about 75 degrees to fit into vertical dropouts. This is shown on both the exploded view and the installation diagrams on the Shimano site. It is easier to see in the installation instructions.

    You can indeed use a Saint derailleur/hub combo on a hangerless frame to make it a geared bike.
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  3. #3
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    "My bike has Horizontal dropouts and a rear derailleur mount."
    Why not just use the rear derailluer mount with a "normal" rear derailluer?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    The difference between the horiz. and vert. dropout versions is a "key" on the adapter that fits into the dropout to prevent the derailleur from rotating. The "key" is horizontal to fit into horizontal dropouts or at about 75 degrees to fit into vertical dropouts. This is shown on both the exploded view and the installation diagrams on the Shimano site. It is easier to see in the installation instructions.
    Okay, looking at the exploded diagram:

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830609156.pdf

    I see what you mean about the tab on the "Left Bracket for BMX type Drop End" which is item #3. So being that there is a corresponding tab on the vertical one, I guess I am SOL regarding using the vertical one on my horizontal dropouts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    You can indeed use a Saint derailleur/hub combo on a hangerless frame to make it a geared bike.
    Looking at the exploded diagram though, if you don't have a conventional derailleur hanger, what does the bolt for item #1 - "B-Axle Assembly" thread into? it looks like it just passes through the "Left Bracket" and threads into the derailleur mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdiddy
    "My bike has Horizontal dropouts and a rear derailleur mount."
    Why not just use the rear derailluer mount with a "normal" rear derailluer?
    The bike this is for is a "Trail Bike" and everything on it is geared towards durability. I like the idea of the Saint derailleur for that reason. The reason I wanted to know about the vertical/horizontal differences is that you can get the Vertical ones for $29.95 through Jenson right now but the Horizontal ones are still around $130... and the one that I'm really interested in (Non Rapid Rise) no longer has a field where you specify if you have horizontal or vertical dropouts so I'm confused as to which one to get.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJGPN

    Looking at the exploded diagram though, if you don't have a conventional derailleur hanger, what does the bolt for item #1 - "B-Axle Assembly" thread into? it looks like it just passes through the "Left Bracket" and threads into the derailleur mount.
    It threads into the piece that is specific to horiz. or vert. dropouts. Part #5 on the diagram I think.

    If the price difference is that great order the cheaper one and just order the horiz. dropout piece from your LBS. I'd be surprised if it was more than $20-$25.
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  6. #6
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    I wanted to thank you for all of your help, I just have one last question. Why do all of the saint ads say "(uses derailleur hanger as secondary mount/rotation lock)" if the derailleur hanger is left completely unused? Or is there some optional way of bridging the two?

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