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  1. #1
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Rohloff Question...engagement speed concerns.

    Disclaimer: I've read a ton of the thread found via searching, and have most of my questions answered. I'm not worried about the weight/drag/break in period, etc.

    But for one, the hub pickup speed. Engagement speed, whatever you want to call it. A few posts have mentioned it's on par with some of the older Shimano hubs. How is it? Annoying? Troublesome on tight techy/trialsy kind of trails? Can't really find much more about that, or maybe I've just missed it. I really like that kind of riding, and am not sure how the hub is on that stuff.

    That's the kind of riding I've found the I really like having my King and Hadley hubs on. Am I going to miss the fast engagement of those hubs? Only had a chance to play around with two of the hubs on bikes, and only parking lot testing. Trying to see if anyone local to me has a setup that I could get some actual trail time on, before commiting to plunking down the cash.

    It'd be going on this, soon to be in my hands. Done in ti, a near identical copy size and geometry wise to my Peyto steel frame. Regular sliders to start with, swapping over my current drivetrain stuff, but very easily swapped over to Rohloff compatable sliders for the OEM axle plate.

    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  2. #2
    Ride 2 Work, Work 2 Ride!
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    The Rolhoff has aways been really good for me. It has the little glitch between 7th and 8th gears but you have most likely read about that. There was no engagement issue that I noticed.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  3. #3
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigred67
    The Rolhoff has aways been really good for me. It has the little glitch between 7th and 8th gears but you have most likely read about that. There was no engagement issue that I noticed.
    Thanks. Not really so much an issues, as so much how much slower it is. Is it enough slwoer than the King/Hadley stuff I'm used to that it'll bug me, or just something I'll get used to? Like I say, trying to get a ride on a Rohloff bike to tell for myself.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  4. #4
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    Not that I noticed. Of course I am not real picky about that for the most part. I would notice if it was bad of course. I have had no problems with it. I can say that compared to the Nexis I have on my cruiser I notice a lot of difference, that thing can be plenty slow.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  5. #5
    ups and downs
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    Comparison to older XT is about right. Throwing a protractor on my cranks it looks like roughly 10 degrees between engagement points in the lower 7 gears and 20 degrees between engagement points in the upper 7 speeds.

  6. #6
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    The Rohloff hub's engagement varies depending on the gear you are in, since the transmission may be going through 1 to 4 clutches. In some gears, engagement is quicker than Shimano, but no where near a CK hub. In others, its worse than Shimano (which only has 16 engagement points!).

    One of the worst gears is #5 (I think) and I ended up in it, while trying to ratchet up a steep skinny. That was amusing for the others to watch, I kind of rocked back and forth on the skinny for a while (because I couldn't get the ratchet to advance) until I lost my balance and fell off. Went back and redid it in another gear without any problems.

  7. #7
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    Open up the following link. It's an exploded view of the Speedhub.

    http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/rohl..._explosion.pdf

    Like itsdoable wrote, there are four clutches that aren't always in operation (gear dependent). From right to left, clutches are at the following locations:

    14 ->19 / 19 ->26 / 14 ->37 / 37->38 (note that 14 repeats and 19 repeats, same part, different location, reversed in assembly).

    There is also a clutch of some sort at 40 ->43, but I don't think it's for coasting.

    Here's something to consider: Hub engagement points are not as important as crank engagement points.

    When you spin the cassette on a standard hub and count engagement points, whether it's 72 or 16 or any other number, what really matters to the rider is how many degrees the crank arm must swing to engage the next point.

    A 16-point hub will result in a 16-point crank only when geared 1:1, i.e 22x22 or 32x32. If you're geared higher, the number of crank engagement points will increase. If lower, they will decrease.

    Contrast that to the Speedhub, which is fixed in a 2.4:1 ring:cog ratio. This means that however many engagement points are present at the cog will result in 2.4 times as many at the crank, where it matters.

    I tried to come up with a snazzy formula to calculate the Speedhub's points, but I'm still working on that. In the meantime, I caved in and counted.

    Here ya go, by Gear #, no. of points @ cog, number @ crank (these are approximate, but close enough, assuming a 2.4:1 ring:cog ratio):

    (lowest)
    Gear 1 -- 6.5 pts - 16 @ crank .|. Gear 8 -- 16.3 pts - 39 @ crank
    Gear 2 -- 7.5 pts - 18 @ crank .|. Gear 9 -- 18.5 pts - 44 @ crank
    Gear 3 -- 13 pts -- 31 @ crank .|. Gear 10 - 21.2 pts - 51 @ crank
    Gear 4 -- 9.5 pts - 23 @ crank .|. Gear 11 - 24.3 pts - 58 @ crank
    Gear 5 -- 15 pts -- 37 @ crank .|. Gear 12 - 26.0 pts - 62 @ crank
    Gear 6 -- 19 pts -- 46 @ crank .|. Gear 13 - 40.0 pts - 96 @ crank
    Gear 7 -- 18.5 pts - 44 @ crank|. Gear 14 - 44.0 pts - 106 @ crank (highest)

    Ok, great, but how does that compare to a 16 point hub, for instance?

    Typical derailleur 44-32-22 / 11-34 setup:
    22x34 : 10 pts @ crank -- granny gear, a little lower than Gear #1
    32x34 : 15 pts @ crank -- equivalent to Gear #4 on Speedhub chart (above)
    32x20 : 26 pts @ crank -- equivalent to Gear #8 on Speedhub chart
    32x11 : 47 pts @ crank -- equivalent to Gear #12 on Speedhub chart
    44x11 : 64 pts @ crank -- about one gear higher than Gear #14 on the Speedhub chart

    The numbers look a bit better that a "standard" 16 point hub in the lowest gears, and quite a bit better in the highest gears.

    Obviously, no comparison to King... no point in evening running those numbers.
    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 10-23-2007 at 05:53 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Damn Nate - you're making my brain hurt! Nice work all the same, some good information there!

  9. #9
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    FWIW, some of the recumbent sites have posted tha Rohloff is shortly going to be releasing a lighter weight hub with different gearing options. They posted a link to a German MTB site with pics and text, but I can't find the link right now. So you may have an additional choice to make - which Rohloff!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clincher
    FWIW, some of the recumbent sites have posted tha Rohloff is shortly going to be releasing a lighter weight hub with different gearing options. They posted a link to a German MTB site with pics and text, but I can't find the link right now. So you may have an additional choice to make - which Rohloff!
    ...or just click the "Speedhub Lite" link in my signature. :thubmsup:

    Gonna be at least a year away, in any case.
    speedub.nate
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    But for one, the hub pickup speed. Engagement speed, whatever you want to call it. A few posts have mentioned it's on par with some of the older Shimano hubs. How is it? Annoying?
    Just some background...I'm formerly an expert level trials competitor from MD. I have no skills anymore, but I still pretend. I also used to live in Providence and logged quite a few miles around Viet Nam, Arcadia and Lincoln Woods (particularly for the trials like terrain)

    True that the pickup on the Rolly is dependent on the gear you're in. On the techy, trialsy stuff I often found myself in a 32/26 (roughly) and I can tell you that the Rolly isn't nearly as responsive as a King. I miss it...lots. In fact, I'm removing the Rolly this winter and will be putting a King back on.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    Troublesome on tight techy/trialsy kind of trails? Can't really find much more about that, or maybe I've just missed it. I really like that kind of riding, and am not sure how the hub is on that stuff.
    I wouldn't say troublesome, just annoying, especially if you want to apply just a tad bit of power as your front wheel is leaving a drop. With a King or Hadley, no problem...with the Rolly, you can sometimes be surprised at how much take-up there is. To be fair, I'm also running my gear ratio slightly lower than the lowest recommended number for Rohloff and I'm aprehensive about really laying into it in a low gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    That's the kind of riding I've found the I really like having my King and Hadley hubs on. Am I going to miss the fast engagement of those hubs?
    I can't speak for you, but I miss it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    Only had a chance to play around with two of the hubs on bikes, and only parking lot testing. Trying to see if anyone local to me has a setup that I could get some actual trail time on, before commiting to plunking down the cash.

    It'd be going on this, soon to be in my hands. Done in ti, a near identical copy size and geometry wise to my Peyto steel frame. Regular sliders to start with, swapping over my current drivetrain stuff, but very easily swapped over to Rohloff compatable sliders for the OEM axle plate.
    Sweet, I may have missed it, but who's building your frame?

    I should also point out that I can't stand gripshift. I had that bias going into it and did my best to leave it aside when I bought the Rohloff over a year ago. I've spent a year on it (which I think is fair) and while I'm still amazed at the quality and design of the Rohloff (it's fantastic) I still miss the King engagement and trigger shifters. The Rohloff will either be sold or will serve duty on a commuter that I'm building over the winter.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles LLC
    flickr :: www.vertigocycles.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge
    I should also point out that I can't stand gripshift. ...The Rohloff will either be sold or will serve duty on a commuter that I'm building over the winter.
    Hang on to it. There is somebody I've talked to who has an aftermarket trigger setup on his drawing board. Still a ways off, not even a prototype yet, but should make a lot of trigger fans happy if he can pull it off.
    speedub.nate
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Hang on to it. There is somebody I've talked to who has an aftermarket trigger setup on his drawing board. Still a ways off, not even a prototype yet, but should make a lot of trigger fans happy if he can pull it off.
    I've thought about it too and started drawing up plans as soon as I bought the hub. The bottom line is that I may never have the time to do it and I still wish the engagement speed was better. As I wrote, it's probably going to spend time on a townie type bike as soon as I fit that build into my schedule.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles LLC
    flickr :: www.vertigocycles.com

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