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  1. #1
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    Reputation: bstiff's Avatar
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    Rohloff hub with Avid Mechanicals?

    I bought an older Rohloff hub on eBay a couple months ago. Finally got around to building the wheel up and putting it on the bike. When I was putting the Speedbone on the bike, I found that the 'bone interferes with my Avid mechanical brakes. I realize a photo would help explain this, but I'm sitting in my cage at the office, and the bike is sitting at my house within sight of my digital camera. I might post a fottergraph later, if further discussion indicates such a requirement.

    At any rate, has anyone seen this sort of problem before, or is anyone aware of changes to the Speedbone over time? Seems like I saw a pic somewhere of a Speedbone that looked, uh, different from mine.

    Thanks...

  2. #2
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    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
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    There are two model speedbones, but they are quite similiar.

    If the 'bone' is hanging up your BB's then you may have to use the chainstay method of torque arm attachment.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  3. #3
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    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
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    The first speedbone (V1) interfered with avid mechs. They later released a V2 that usually cleared the Avid mech.

    Some shots from previous posts - note there are 2 different bones here (FYI: I only have the V1 speedbone, which is shorter)



  4. #4
    mmm, carbon
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    If you're feeling adventurous... Rohloff club members invited !

  5. #5
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    The conflict you're seeing, between the Avid adapter and the Rohloff OEM2 axle plate, can be solved with a file or a Dremel.

    This photo is the same installation as the #1 and #3 photos itsdoable posted, of a v1 Speedbone installed on my '03 Hollowpoint.

    What is shows is the are of conflict. The solution here was to remove just a slight bit of material from the Avid adapter, and a considerable amount from the axle plate. Just keep filing/fitting/filing/fitting until everything goes together with no contact.

    As you can see from itsdoable's #2 photo is the v2 Speedbone "droops", engaging the axle plate lower, which causes it to rotate away from the Avid adapter, avoiding the conflict.



    PS I really like the solution Timbo posted. One day I will perform some work on my Avid adapter and make that happen.
    speedub.nate
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  6. #6
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    Awesome, thanks for everyone's replies. I *swear* I searched for the forums for relevant posts, but apparently my search was inadequate.

    I wondered about Dremeling my bone to clear the caliper, but was concerned that this would cause a stress riser in the piece, leading to eventual failure. I guess I'd just be stuck buying a new Speedbone, which is pretty much where I am now.

    The solution offered in Timbo's link looks interesting, but I'm seriously wondering about the risks presented by that option. I recall seeing a web page last year describing using the OEM1 axle plate on a Surly (?) frame with horizontal dropouts. The dropout ended up getting spread open by the hub's torque. How substantial is the risk of failure of my Inbred frame's disk brake braze-on? Also, IIRC, I don't think the disc caliper mounting bolt maintains a relationship to the axle that accomodates this configuration for the range of axle movement that may be needed.

    Methinks I'll relieve my present Speedbone to accomodate my brake, and order a new Speedbone while I'm at it. The On-One website indicates that they're out of OEM1-compatible sliding dropouts. I posted to Brant's discussion forum to ask when they'll be getting more, waiting for the response there.

  7. #7
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    Actually, the disc caliper mounting hole positions are placed in reference to the axle, so you'll find Timbo's method to be perfect.

    In fact, the aftermarket OEM2 axle plate comes with a nut and bolt to place through this lower IS tab hole, in lieu of a Speedbone and disc caliper.

    The torque output is significant. In first gear, 98% of the torque you apply to the crank arm will be transmitted to the frame or Speedbone through whichever mounting method you choose. Obviously, in relation to the long OEM torque arm, the load will be manageable at the chainstay, but at the dropout or disc tab, it is significant.

    I have seen photos of failed dropouts, but I haven't yet heard or seen any disc brake tab failures from use of the Speedbone or OEM2 axle plate.

    Remember, if you Dremel or file anything in order to use your v1 Speedbone, it won't be the bone itself, but the axle plate. Thomas the Rohloff guys actually showed me this trick, and the filed axle plate I've been using for the past 5-6 years is still straight working great.

    But in the end, purchasing a v2 Speedbone is probably the quickest, "safest" bet, if you're at all concerned with modding parts.
    speedub.nate
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  8. #8
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    Yes, file the Axle Plate, not the Speed Bone! I should have mentioned that when I posted the pictures of the V1 & V2 bones (I should mention that some of those pics are Nate's).

    Minor filing to make the Rohloff fit is not that unusual, my original disc Rohloff came with instruction on how to file my Magura Louise calipers to clear the rotor bolts.

    The lowest gear on the hub is 1:0.279, and that combined with a minimum 2.4 cog/chainring ratio, the torque arm must withstand a load that is approximately equal to what you are putting on the cranks. The OEM-2 torque arm is designed to mesh with the ISO disc mount, which is 4cm from the dropout. Since you are pushing on a 175mm crank, the leverage ratio is 4.4x. Thus if you stand on the cranks, the disc mount can see a force that is ~4.5x your weight. I had to sign a waiver for my first speedbone since I could not get a certification from the frame manufacturer that the disc mount was designed for a specified force. I think it's understood now that most disc mounts can see a similar force from braking. However, this is the reason that most horizontal/track mounts will bend with an OEM-1 torque arm, and why the after-market arm is so long.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the input and comments. I suspect that with time, I'll probably end up going with Timbo's solution. For the time being, I just took a little off the Speedbone to clear the caliper. If Brant's going to come up with any more Rohloff dropouts for the Inbred frame, that seems like the best option if I'm going to order and wait for parts that have to come from overseas. I hope I'm not going to get raped on the OEM1 axle plate.

    Apparently, the guy I bought the hub from bought this one before they printed the instructions in English, and since I can't read friggin' Deutsch, I had to figure out how to set the shifting up with what the Good Lord gave me to fill the space betwixt me ears. I can get all fourteen gears, and the numbers line up with the little dot on the shifter, but I'd like to find out if I done it right. Can you guys point me to someplace where I can read setup instructions, in English better than what was slapped into the wikipedia page for the Speedhub?

    Thanks 'gain.

  10. #10
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    If you've got all fourteen, you've done good. I've you've got the numbers to line up, you've done better than I can do half the time. Good job.

    http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/de...ion/index.html for instructions in English.
    speedub.nate
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  11. #11
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    Once you can hit all 14 gears and they line up with the numbers, the cable tension adjustments are just there to take out the slack in the shifter.

    The last time I assembled the external gearbox and changed the cables I ended up with a motorcycle throttle arrangement, with the bigger gears twisting the grip toward me. Rather than take it apart again I've just learned to live with it. It's not as easy as the other arrangement for downshifting, but I'll wait till I change the cables again to change anything.

  12. #12
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    Well, the English in the manual ain't great, but it's at least tolerable... Thanks for the link. I'm not seeing too much that I hadn't already surmised.

    Ya know, I've ridden dirt bikes quite a bit, and regarding twist-grip shifting, I think the Rohloff is the first one that shifts to the gear I want by twisting the direction I feel it should go. My wife and I took the kid for a drag in his Chariot yesterday on the bike path. I was pulling the kid on my old single-speed that I recently augmented with a Shimano Nexus wheel. That shifter goes the *wrong stinkin' way*. I kept shifting the direction opposite what I wanted.

    I can't imagine putting the cables on backwards. I'd never be able to approach the desired higher state of um, whatever, if I was constantly distracted by shifting the wrong way.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstiff
    I can't imagine putting the cables on backwards. I'd never be able to approach the desired higher state of um, whatever, if I was constantly distracted by shifting the wrong way.
    I couldn't imagine it either or I'd have been paying a bit more attention while I installed them.

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