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  1. #1
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    race face crank coming loose.

    I have Race Face Deus crank set. the bolt that tightens the drive side and holds it on keeps coming loose. If I tighten it too much the bearings seem to become pressed and harder to rotate. What could I do top stop this? Lock tight? Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RideOrDieDan
    I have Race Face Deus crank set. the bolt that tightens the drive side and holds it on keeps coming loose. If I tighten it too much the bearings seem to become pressed and harder to rotate. What could I do top stop this? Lock tight? Any ideas?
    Mine was simply cured with blue loctite....no more loosening.

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    looks like I'll be getting some blue lock tight tonight.

    thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RideOrDieDan
    looks like I'll be getting some blue lock tight tonight.

    thanks!
    may as well. the only advice beyond that is when you put the bolt back in after putting loctite on the threads, dont put it in "too" tight such that it impacts the bearings and creates too much drag as a result.

  5. #5
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    That bolt has to be extremely tight and it has no impact on the bearings preload. Bearing preload is determined by the spacers and elastomer. The crank arm and bolt have to be fully bottomed out and torqued to spec. There are no ifs or buts in regards to that. If it's compressing the bearings the BB cup spacing is not correct and the spacers/elastomer are not set correctly. You will destroy the splines if you keep pedaling for long with the crank arm not correctly bottomed out. You should start by making sure the the BB shell is corectly faced and exactly 68mm or 73mm long. If its 68mm you MUST have 2 X 2.5mm spacers behind the driveside BB cup and 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the non driveside cup. If its a 73mm bottom bracket you MUST have just 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the driveside ONLY. If you use an E-type derrailleur there shouldn't be any spacers on the 73mm shell and only one on each side for the 68mm one. Besides that there are 1mm spacers that go on the BB spindle. There must ALWAYS be two of them in the spindle. One on each side for a 49mm chainling, both on the driveside for 50mm, or both on the non-drive side for 48mm, but never more than two at any time. If you have all these spacers set correctly and the bearings are still sideloaded you need to remove the stock 3.5mm elastomer and install the smaller supplied 2.5mm one. If none of this helps your BB is probably way out of spec and needs to be correctly faced.
    Once all the spacers are set you need to torque down on that bolt HARD. It doesn't matter how hard it feels or how high the torque wrench reads, just keep going until you visually see the arm bottom out as far as it can go. You will know when because when the cranks bottoms out the bolt will no longer turn no matter how hard you try to turn. Once bottomed out use a torque wrench to verify it has at least 40 foot pounds of pressure. The bolt should not back out then. If you are 100% sure all of the above is perfectly set and the crank is correctly bottomed out and torqued to spec, THEN consider using a little bit of loctite. As it look right now you'll just be loctiting the bolt in a loose position.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    That bolt has to be extremely tight and it has no impact on the bearings preload. Bearing preload is determined by the spacers and elastomer. The crank arm and bolt have to be fully bottomed out and torqued to spec. There are no ifs or buts in regards to that. If it's compressing the bearings the BB cup spacing is not correct and the spacers/elastomer are not set correctly. You will destroy the splines if you keep pedaling for long with the crank arm not correctly bottomed out. You should start by making sure the the BB shell is corectly faced and exactly 68mm or 73mm long. If its 68mm you MUST have 2 X 2.5mm spacers behind the driveside BB cup and 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the non driveside cup. If its a 73mm bottom bracket you MUST have just 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the driveside ONLY. If you use an E-type derrailleur there shouldn't be any spacers on the 73mm shell and only one on each side for the 68mm one. Besides that there are 1mm spacers that go on the BB spindle. There must ALWAYS be two of them in the spindle. One on each side for a 49mm chainling, both on the driveside for 50mm, or both on the non-drive side for 48mm, but never more than two at any time. If you have all these spacers set correctly and the bearings are still sideloaded you need to remove the stock 3.5mm elastomer and install the smaller supplied 2.5mm one. If none of this helps your BB is probably way out of spec and needs to be correctly faced.
    Once all the spacers are set you need to torque down on that bolt HARD. It doesn't matter how hard it feels or how high the torque wrench reads, just keep going until you visually see the arm bottom out as far as it can go. You will know when because when the cranks bottoms out the bolt will no longer turn no matter how hard you try to turn. Once bottomed out use a torque wrench to verify it has at least 40 foot pounds of pressure. The bolt should not back out then. If you are 100% sure all of the above is perfectly set and the crank is correctly bottomed out and torqued to spec, THEN consider using a little bit of loctite. As it look right now you'll just be loctiting the bolt in a loose position.
    thanks for the correction Hecubus

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    Thanks for the help!

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    Sorry if I'm opening a dead thread, but there's a lot of great info hear and I have a question. I'm having the same problem on a RF Prodigy crank an BB on the driveside as well. My question is where should the supplied spacer go? (it fell out while cleaning, so I didn't note location) It seems like the most logical place is behind the crank bolt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuLz
    Sorry if I'm opening a dead thread, but there's a lot of great info hear and I have a question. I'm having the same problem on a RF Prodigy crank an BB on the driveside as well. My question is where should the supplied spacer go? (it fell out while cleaning, so I didn't note location) It seems like the most logical place is behind the crank bolt.
    Is your prodigy crank X-type? The above advice applies to X-type bottom bracket/cranks only. If the answer is yes, I would suggest downloading the .pdf file from RaceFace's website, and compare the spacers you already have in place, to the ones in the diagram. It is most likely that it came off the drive side between the crank arm, and the BB spindle. I doubt you would have slid the spacer all the way from the left crank arm down the BB spindle, and off the end, as they fit on there pretty tight.

    Does this answer your question?

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    The prodigy uses an ISIS, square taper, or X-type BB?? What you're describing sounds more like a washer than a spacer. Can you give more info on your setup?

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    Yes, it's the prodigy x-type with Isis BB. Looking at the PDF shows me that the spacer goes on before drive crank, when I was putting it on after.

    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLust
    Is your prodigy crank X-type? The above advice applies to X-type bottom bracket/cranks only. If the answer is yes, I would suggest downloading the .pdf file from RaceFace's website, and compare the spacers you already have in place, to the ones in the diagram. It is most likely that it came off the drive side between the crank arm, and the BB spindle. I doubt you would have slid the spacer all the way from the left crank arm down the BB spindle, and off the end, as they fit on there pretty tight.

    Does this answer your question?

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  12. #12
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    Wait, according to .pdf evolve xc file, "loose washer must be used, if washer not built in". I must be confusing this with spindle spacer, which I never saw in the first place. Therefore, washer goes on after crank arm?
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Is ISIS or X-type, not both

    Quote Originally Posted by RuLz
    Yes, it's the prodigy x-type with Isis BB. Looking at the PDF shows me that the spacer goes on before drive crank, when I was putting it on after.
    Is either ISIS or X-type, can't be both.

    ISIS the bearings are inside the BB shell, X-type the bearings are outside the BB shell. If it is an X-type the spindle is permanently attached to the non-drive side arm. If you have crank bolts on BOTH sides is an ISIS bb, if you have just one bolt (on the drive side) is an X-type. Hope it helps to clear it.

    If it is an X-type, the loose washer you talk about below goes with/refers to the self-extracting bolt. Me thinks.

    If you are using a ISIS bb then that PDF won't help you at all. If it is indeed an X-type, try the parktools.com site for additional info.
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    New question here. Ah crap...

    now I'm thoroughly confused. I'll inspect tonight. I do know for a fact that it's an ISIS BB, with 2 crank bolts, one on each side. I'm guessing that I need to get my hands on a torque wrench and fix it proper.

    Edit, bike's an '02 RM Slayer, cranks and BB are the original.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuLz
    now I'm thoroughly confused. I'll inspect tonight. I do know for a fact that it's an ISIS BB, with 2 crank bolts, one on each side. I'm guessing that I need to get my hands on a torque wrench and fix it proper.

    Edit, bike's an '02 RM Slayer, cranks and BB are the original.
    Then FORGET about anything and everything you saw on the Evolve XC X-type PDF. It has nothing to do with your cranks, you have an ISIS bb not a X-type, external bearing BB. The spacer or washer, most probably goes behind the crank bolt as you guessed. I would suggest you try parktools.com for instructions.
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    Good job!

    Thanks for the info. Preciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenK
    Then FORGET about anything and everything you saw on the Evolve XC X-type PDF. It has nothing to do with your cranks, you have an ISIS bb not a X-type, external bearing BB. The spacer or washer, most probably goes behind the crank bolt as you guessed. I would suggest you try parktools.com for instructions.
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  17. #17
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    crank bolts loose again..and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by RideOrDieDan
    I have Race Face Deus crank set. the bolt that tightens the drive side and holds it on keeps coming loose. If I tighten it too much the bearings seem to become pressed and harder to rotate. What could I do top stop this? Lock tight? Any ideas?

    I'm having somewhat of a similar problem but with the isis bb/cranks. I had the RF prodigy xc cranks/bb, but the crank splines were all worn down, so I bought FSA v-drive extreme cranks arms and slapped them on using the old bb/chainrings/crankbolts.
    After my first ride of about 5 miles, the crank bolts were loose by about a full turn: but there was no play on the cranks.
    Funny thing is that with the old cranks, only the non-drive side crank would come loose, but now, both bolts are coming loose. So.. there must have been some sort of installation problem on my part. I read through the install instructions on the RF site and this is what I notice so far and wanted to see if anyone can suggest anything I can do:

    On my crankbolts, there are 2 washers. On the instructions, I notice only 1 washer in the pictures. So i use 1 or 2?
    Additionally, on my setup, there is a thin washer that goes between the crank arm and the crank stopper flange.
    I'm guessing MAYBE all these washers provide too much space and the crank bolt is unable to be bolted all the way in?

    Lastly, there is a oh-so-slight play from the BB.. Ican't see it move visually, but I can feel it when pushing and pulling the crank arms with myhands. Is this something I need to worry about.. like get a new BB asap?

    Thanks in advance.

  18. #18
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    I don't think you have to worry about a slight bit of play in your BB. If it starts creaking, or feels rough when you turn the spindle it's time to look at a new BB. On the V-Drive cranks I had on my bike there was no washer needed between the crank arm and the spindle. I would agree with your guess that the washer might be preventing the splines from mating properlyfor a tight fit. My guess it that a mechanic might have put that on the spindle to micro adjust your chainline. The spacer should go between the bb cup and the frame. When you torque the crank down, expect that you may have to adjust your front derailleur inwards depending on how thick the washer was. As far as two washers on the crank bolts, this probably isn't a problem, but you only need 1.

    let us know how it goes, hopefully removing the washer will help with the loose arm problem.
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    the day before i posted the original post, I went to my LBS and had the guys look at it. All they did was crank the bolt down tighter.. so they say. after a ride yesterday, the bolts were still tight... maybe it was a matter of really cranking them down.. but i'll see if they come loose eventually and take off some washers and post again and let you know.
    thanks for the help.



    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLust
    I don't think you have to worry about a slight bit of play in your BB. If it starts creaking, or feels rough when you turn the spindle it's time to look at a new BB. On the V-Drive cranks I had on my bike there was no washer needed between the crank arm and the spindle. I would agree with your guess that the washer might be preventing the splines from mating properlyfor a tight fit. My guess it that a mechanic might have put that on the spindle to micro adjust your chainline. The spacer should go between the bb cup and the frame. When you torque the crank down, expect that you may have to adjust your front derailleur inwards depending on how thick the washer was. As far as two washers on the crank bolts, this probably isn't a problem, but you only need 1.

    let us know how it goes, hopefully removing the washer will help with the loose arm problem.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus View Post
    That bolt has to be extremely tight and it has no impact on the bearings preload. Bearing preload is determined by the spacers and elastomer. The crank arm and bolt have to be fully bottomed out and torqued to spec. There are no ifs or buts in regards to that. If it's compressing the bearings the BB cup spacing is not correct and the spacers/elastomer are not set correctly. You will destroy the splines if you keep pedaling for long with the crank arm not correctly bottomed out. You should start by making sure the the BB shell is corectly faced and exactly 68mm or 73mm long. If its 68mm you MUST have 2 X 2.5mm spacers behind the driveside BB cup and 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the non driveside cup. If its a 73mm bottom bracket you MUST have just 1 X 2.5mm spacer on the driveside ONLY. If you use an E-type derrailleur there shouldn't be any spacers on the 73mm shell and only one on each side for the 68mm one. Besides that there are 1mm spacers that go on the BB spindle. There must ALWAYS be two of them in the spindle. One on each side for a 49mm chainling, both on the driveside for 50mm, or both on the non-drive side for 48mm, but never more than two at any time. If you have all these spacers set correctly and the bearings are still sideloaded you need to remove the stock 3.5mm elastomer and install the smaller supplied 2.5mm one. If none of this helps your BB is probably way out of spec and needs to be correctly faced.
    Once all the spacers are set you need to torque down on that bolt HARD. It doesn't matter how hard it feels or how high the torque wrench reads, just keep going until you visually see the arm bottom out as far as it can go. You will know when because when the cranks bottoms out the bolt will no longer turn no matter how hard you try to turn. Once bottomed out use a torque wrench to verify it has at least 40 foot pounds of pressure. The bolt should not back out then. If you are 100% sure all of the above is perfectly set and the crank is correctly bottomed out and torqued to spec, THEN consider using a little bit of loctite. As it look right now you'll just be loctiting the bolt in a loose position.
    I am aware that this thread is old and used up, but I just wanted to say thanks dude, I was having the same problem with my RF Deus XC crank coming loose every ride, I would tighten down to the point that it was inhibiting the rotation of the cranks, I took out the non-drive side spacer and the thing runs like a freaking Champ.

    That's what I get for not reading the directions.
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