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  1. #201
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    I think its great that there is more competition out there, and different designs to choose from. I'm now getting ovals for half the price I was getting them a few years ago.
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  2. #202
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    Just found this article from Sheldon Brown about biopace.

    Biopace Chainwheels

    He really seems to like it. Also much of the information seems to contradict what we now know about biopace with regard to knee pain.
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  3. #203
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    For sure about the prices!

    I just wonder about the science about the shapes and phasing of the rings. Every maker claims that their shape is the best...but the only way to really find out is to test them yourselves. That can be a very expensive endeavor though...kind a like finding that "perfect" saddle!

  4. #204
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    Well this thread should help a bit
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I'm going to order the Garbaruk Melon ring.
    Just checked out the Garbaruk site, and they specifically list the 102 BCD Melon as being for XTR cranks. I have M980 XTR cranks, and I was under the impression they are 104 BCD. Does anyone know why these guys would be specifying 102?

  6. #206
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    102 BCD is for XTR M960 Crank
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    102 BCD is for XTR M960 Crank
    cool. thank you for your prompt reply. having read through this entire forum, i think i'm leaning Doval, although i'm holding out for michael9218's final review of the Rivello.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    Just found this article from Sheldon Brown about biopace.

    Biopace Chainwheels

    He really seems to like it. Also much of the information seems to contradict what we now know about biopace with regard to knee pain.
    From all I read Biopace chainrings timing was "wrong" by 90 degrees, so the new ovals should be quite different in feel. Also, that's all they seem to provide, a smoother torque transfer to the wheel
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    Biopace gave a lot of people fairly chronic knee pain. Obviously some people, like yourself, liked them and didn't have any issues.

    Interesting that you said you could spin faster. With modern Ovals (Q-rings etc.) I find that my cadence is lower, and I can push a harder gear. Spinning a low gear at high RPM actually starts getting a bit uncomfortable and bouncy.
    It has been long time since I rode with Biospace, but I think that transition where pedals are highest and lowest position, was smoother with it than with round rings I currently have.

    You should not though, that then I just rode a bike, I was not cyclist or mountain biker like today with increased knowledge.

    I remember that there was next to none of bouncing on seat and never had any issues with knees or legs, of course I rarely rode more than 10 miles then and certainly I did not have strength to get issues either, it was impossible to tell if I had leg muscles at all during those days.

    So what really is truth in there, I think we will never know about that, time has passed and my body has changed since then, but I still would say spinning was really easy with Biospace.

    Today I usually just lift and swipe back, I don't push pedals down so much, seems to smoothen my pedaling, oval rings might help there bit more.
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  10. #210
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    I'm still wondering on how everybody decides on where to "clock" the oval.

    108, 112, 115 are all from different manufacturers. I wonder how much of an actual difference is there between the degrees. Couple deg here and there. No manufacturer has their rings clocked the same. Not sure if it's different because there is an actual difference...or for the sake as to not have the same numbers as another manufacturer.

    I ordered the Garbaruk. Hopefully it gets here in a couple weeks. I'll see if I can tell a difference from the oval I'm using now. I'm more curious about the chain line vs the oval.

  11. #211
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    Doval 34T 16% fixed OCP review.

    So I've done a few rides on this ring now, and to be honest, I'm struggling a bit with it.
    I don't think I got the same shape as Michael did, and this may be part of the problem. The clocking seems to kick in earlier than the 32T 12% Doval, which is possibly causing an issue.

    My local trails (Brisbane, Aus.)are faily tight and twisty singletrack, loose over hard ground, not many big hills around, but lots of steep out of the saddle pinch climbs.

    One possible issue is that my previous ring was a 32T, so the 34T has left me a bit overgeared, or in between gears. Obviously I just shift down to stay in the same gear ratio, but some steep climbs (25%) have been tough.

    The main issue for me though is the quick transition from down to up, or flat to pinch, where I need to get out of the saddle and power up the climb. This is usually not an issue for me, and i can usually make the climb without worrying about shifting (gear masher SS traits showing). However, with the 16% Inertia ring, I'm finding that i have to sit back down, and shift into an easier gear to get my revs back up. I think the bigger effective chainring, at the power zone, is slowing my cadence down too much, and causing me to lose momentum.

    On the road to the trails, the ring feels great, and I can cruise along at road bike speeds without any issue, so I think this is where the Inertia ring shines. but on twisty undulating singletrack, where lots of braking and accelerations are required, for me, I think this ring is actually slowing me down.

    Keen to try A Rivello 32T 12% Steel or Ti ring. I think for the steep climbs that I have, I need a 32t ring, which allows me to get up, without requiring an extender sprocket on my cassette.
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  12. #212
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    A lot of good info on this thread - Thanks for creating it Michael. We're pleased to announce OneUp Traction Rings.

    Oval vs asymmetric rings-11811408_1680844092147620_1989133752536194156_n.jpg

    Full release here - Clean More Climbs with a OneUp Components Traction Ring by OneUpComponents - Pinkbike

    BR first look here - OneUp Components spins out complete N/W Traction Ring oval chainring collection ? Hands on, actual weights!

    The clocking and ovality are 115deg and 12% respectively. We find this to be a comfortable and widely acceptable setup. As discussed on previous pages of this thread it is certainly not the ultimate solution for every rider.

    I hope this doesn't come across as too much of an ad - we just wanted to get it out there that we have options for currently unsupported standards and have tried to hit price points that bring good value.

    Cheers,
    Jon @ OneUp

  13. #213
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    Got my Garbaruk Melon 30T ring. Took less than seven days from the Ukraine. Came in a white envelope in a zip lock bag.

    I've never installed a direct mount ring. Is there only one way to mount it? There are no markings on the chainring.






  14. #214
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    Looks good quality.

    I think there's only one way you can mount the DM ring. This is why they don't have any option for clocking - whereas the RF cinch ones kind of do (though something like 22.5 deg adjustment - which is hardly fine tuning)
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  15. #215
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    yes, there should be only one way for SRAM direct mounts.

  16. #216
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    Thanks!

  17. #217
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    Installed the Garbaruk ring last night. Lol...the T25's are bolts waiting to be stripped. Man...if the T25 isn't inserted all the way or if you turn it with the tool sideways in the bolt...stripped...haha.

    Went on pretty easy. Took me about 20 mins taking my time cleaning and putting things back together.

    Backpedaling on the stand...with the 47.7mm chainline. The chain stopped dropping. I can backpedal all I want and the chain will not drop. The teeth are much taller compared to the other NW rings I got.

    Tall teeth
    Oval vs asymmetric rings-img_20150805_212610_zpsqzxc7zo1.jpg

    Doval 28T, Ridea S XX1 30T (on stock XX1 spider), Garbaruk Melon 30T, Stock XX1 30T. You can see the "lobes" on the Ridea ring compared to the Doval and Garbaruk
    Oval vs asymmetric rings-img_20150805_211023_zpsnjxsajkl.jpg

    Rest of the drivetrain
    Oval vs asymmetric rings-img_20150805_213314_zpskfuy0tn1.jpg

  18. #218
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    Ride update on the Rivello-Bikes ring. Completed a 6 hour endurance race yesterday on the new ring. The ring felt great. I won the open masters category against 16 competitors, lapping the field (I was fourth fastest male overall). I had power through to the end with no leg or knee fatigue. My eighth lap was my third fastest lap. This course had some nasty climbs and with this ring I felt good digging deep to make the climbs. The clocking on this ring is set to 142 degrees. It feels fantastic. Smooth at a high cadence and allows you to dig deep on the climbs at low cadence.

    I did choose to ride this ring with an E13 guide for insurance. After about 7 hours of testing on the ring prior to the race, I did get a chain drop. Not sure if it was a fluke or what. I can say that on my Doval semi NW I've also experienced the occasional drop (twice in one race). I think drops happen regardless of the chainring. My riding buddy has had a drop using my AB NW. For me it usually happens on fast rough left hand turns where the chain is loose and the inertia pulls the chain to the outside and off the ring.

    I do like the narrow teeth on the Rivello. It seems to be less noisy due to less rub when on the outside or inside gear. The steel teeth should also wear well. I feel that the shape of this ring and the clocking is spot on. This is the essence of the bio-mechanically tuned cam profile for a non-round ring.

  19. #219
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    I raced XC yesterday on a 34T 13% SNW Doval.

    Dropped the chain at the end of the fist lap, which dropped me back from 3rd to 5th. I managed to regain these places on the following lap, but this obviously cost me some time.

    I ended up finishing in 3rd, 26 seconds off 1st place, after chasing hard.

    Would be nice to have a more reliable option. Before running the Dovals and Ridea NW rings, I was using a Q-Ring with a blackspire chainguide. However this would occasionally derail also, and jam in the guide, so would take even longer to fix.

    I'm running an XTR clutch mech, so i'm not sure what else I can try?
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  20. #220
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    Obvious suggestion would be a fresh chain and run your chain tight. A narrow cassette spacing helps with this since you can run a shorter chain if you're not going around a 42t gear. I can say that I've never had a drop issue with the E13 guide. I align it further forward than their instructions to prevent chain rub in the inboard and outboard gears. I just realized yesterday after the race when cleaning my bike that I had finished the last 2 1/2 laps with the clutch turned off after I flatted. I recall hearing a lot of chain slap, but in the heat of battle ignored it. Still didn't drop the chain with the E13 guide. Maybe try an E13 guide?

  21. #221
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    Another thing you may want to consider is what is happening when you have these drops. As I stated in my earlier post, mine seem to happen on fast rough left hand sweeper turns.

    The ideal condition to drop a chain:
    You're in a smaller outside gear.
    Your chain is loose.
    Fast rough terrain is bouncing your chain.
    Inertia is pulling it further off center to the outside.
    If you add to that what you may be doing at that moment, you have the final straw...I am right footed so I coast with my left foot forward. Sometimes I find myself simply straightening my right leg with a quarter turn in reverse stroke to get it to the bottom position to make a quick lean into the turn. If your chain is under the conditions above, you've now rotated the loose and derailing chain up over the top of the ring backwards.

    Not saying this is what is happening with you, but something to consider...

  22. #222
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    Michael

    Thanks for starting this thread. I came across this thread purely by accident as I was looking for info on side pull front derailleurs and looked in this section of the MTBR for something that would help me on that topic. Seeing this interests me as I have ordered an Osymetric 24t chainring for my MTB 3x9.

    I have read the whole discussion over a 3 day period to take in the 'big picture' and will note that I believe that there is more of a language barrier between you and Tehan than any real differences. You are much closer in your understanding than you may think. Tehan, I can thank for laying down some sound technical guidance into this discussion and was not pushing any barrow. You cannot copy a patented product and have credibility by the way. His product is similar, but different, but could point out that Rotor was the most documented in testing, and as such, could point you in a more proven understanding of this technical topic. I commend a person like that for trying to advance understanding of this subject, most manufacturers would not venture this far into what is really a minor discussion, giving a lot of their time to help educate us who follow.

    I was also completely blown away by the large number of options available for sale. I committed to Osymetric as it was the only type that was available to purchase. I too, live in a minor country, so felt limited for sources of supply.

    However, moving on.

    My interest has come about purely by a limitation that I have when I go to a local 'event' that I enjoy riding. This event has amongst its varied terrain, a climb that I as a 57yr old struggle with. It has a vertical height of 400m and varies in intensity over a distance of some 5-6km. I find on my round 22t granny ring that I can hold a steady cadence on the shallow angled sections but as the body is strained, hitting a steeper portion blows my aging body and my heart rate jumps through the roof, the breathing suddenly goes out of wack, and the legs die. I have to rest and recompose myself before setting off walking to a shallow section before re-mounting. I loose maybe 4 minutes to those in front of me and those behind over-take me. I am not looking for more power, but a greater even-ness of power delivery. I am hoping that I will be able to smooth out the pedal stroke so that I can sustain the climbing load better and not loose that 4mins, and therefore have a better ride time. I have read that these chainwheel types will help achieve my aim, so I look forward to receiving my introduction into this division.

    Keep contributing positively.

    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Malcolm; 08-13-2015 at 03:56 PM.
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  23. #223
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    Trying to order from Garbaruk site. It processed my order, but didn't move to a page with any payment options. I received an email stating they would send instructions. Anyone with experience buying from them -- is this normal process? What was your experience?

  24. #224
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    I emailed them straight. Chainring got to So Cal in less than 7 days.

  25. #225
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    In the race last weekend, the chain dropped on a fastish 90 deg right hand turn. not particularly bumpy. This was with a new ring and new chain.

    The week previous to this, I was using my older ring and chain, and got 2 chain drops within the first 10 minutes, so I thought I'd be having to continually stop to fit the chain back on. However it didn't drop again, yet the ride was rough.

    Aside for the fast sharp right hander, most of my chain drops happen on fast straight rough sections.

    I'm running an 11 - 34 cassette, and run my chain 4 links bigger than the big - big combo, I guess I could try shortening the chain, though I'm not usually a fan of running a tight chain.
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  26. #226
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    Order up

    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I emailed them straight. Chainring got to So Cal in less than 7 days.
    Thanks. I was able email them -- they actually sent me an email right away that they had received my order. I'll report back on time to arrive. I'm so tired of chain dropping off 42 when I back peddle. Hoping improved chainline stops that. Truly, that's more important than even the oval, tho I'm giving that a try too.

  27. #227
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    Couldn't shorten my chain any as I'd set the length with a 32T ring, and now I have a 34T on, so that shouldn't be an issue. Its a fairly new chain also.

    I tightened the clutch mechanism on my mech, so will see if that fixes the issue. The clutch seems much firmer now. Hopefully this works as I don't want to have to fit a chain guide.
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  28. #228
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    Here's my 2015 Stumpjumper Comp with the 32T oval chainring from One up.
    The oval ring make climbing much more easier on my legs, I don't get tired as quick as I use to on a round chainring. My buddy has the same bike with a 32T round ring and we swap bikes around yesterday... I don't think I can't or want to go back to a round chainring anymore.

    Side note... The OEM hardware didn't fit for my bike, I had to find sone at my local bike shop.


  29. #229
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    I noticed a few instances of dropped chains in ride reviews about oval rings from various manufacturers.

    We just launched an ultralight 1SCG05 guide that is oval compatible (up to 13% ovality).

    We'll be working on other standards soon and as always are reasonably priced.

    OneUp Components US - CHAINGUIDE - ISCG05

    Oval vs asymmetric rings-11202630_490387047803084_1641715584_n.jpg

  30. #230
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    Oval rings hold the chain in exactly same way as round ones. You won't drop a chain if you ride good quality oval chainring.

    If the oval chainring is designed incorrectly (exact shape pitch of teeth) or teeth are too pointy then yes, you may drop a chain easily as chain will have a trouble to match correctly the chainring teeth.

    If the oval is perfectly calculated and teeth are very wide then risk of loosing a chain is extremely small. Chainring at every point of rotation still engages half of teeth with a chain - exactly same way as round one. So ovals are not more prone to chain drops than round ones.... provided oval chainrings is correctly made

  31. #231
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    I think it's more that some PEOPLE are more prone to chain drops.
    I've never dropped one with Race Face, Revolution Components, Absolute Black or another one I can't remember the manufacturer of.

  32. #232
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    If you want to extend life of your chainring and have less drops (if you have them now..) here is how to do it:
    But 3 chains when you buy chainring. Why?

    here it is. Watch it once and it will save you a lot of cash in years to come...


  33. #233
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    I received my Osymetric 24t granny gear ring for my 3x9 set-up and fitted it today. Unlike the AB ring, this one has the rear derailleur bobbing a little so it would not suit a single speed. My first ride impression was of my legs feeling as if they were un-loaded initially at the 1-3 o'clock then finishing the stroke oddly loaded. I noted that the abruptness of this sensation quickly disappeared after 20-30m of riding and I resumed a natural pedalling cadence. Taking the cadence higher into the 90+ zone however made the pedal action seem 'lumpy', so perhaps spending some descent climb mileage is in order to settle the legs into the new action. I was able to do a light test uphill and noted the bike's front lift a bit, but I realise that the power stroke is modified by this ring and I need to adjust to that. In a comparable ratio selected from my round middle ring, the immediate impression was of the Osymetric being easier to pedal in the lower cadence, loaded up ride effort. This climb was minimal, so will need to head to the hills to experiment further over a lengthy duration, but as it stands at this point, looks promising. The legs felt fresh and I did not experience any negative muscle side effects.

    Eric
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  34. #234
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    Received my Garbaruk Melon direct mount chainring this week. First ride impressions: noticed a significant improvement in smoothing out torque throughout pedal stroke. I purchased this mostly to correct chainline problems on my RF Next SL cranks. Back pedaling when in 42t rear cog much better.

    Surprised how much I like the oval. I wonder if the difference it makes is more significant with longer inseam. I have a 35 inch inseam and my femur is long. I typically have a very uneven power distribution throughout pedal stroke with 175mm cranks. 180s help some but more difficult to find and pedal strikes more frequent. This ring takes so much of that out and allows me to stay feeling connected to the pedals when quickly increasing cadence. Was also aware of shifting less as I can hold a given gear over more varied terrain. Very pleased.

  35. #235
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    are oneup and AB same in ovality?
    For the oneup traction users how is the wear on the rings?

  36. #236
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    How do these chain rings feels when you stand up and pedal vs seated? Does it throw off you pedal stroke or cadence at all?
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  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowball View Post
    How do these chain rings feels when you stand up and pedal vs seated? Does it throw off you pedal stroke or cadence at all?
    For me, it improves out of the saddle pedaling. It smooths out torque so it takes out some of the uneven bouncing that is exaggerated when standing.

  38. #238
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    I agree with attaboy. It's the low speed grind...seated or standing...where they shine. If anything, I think the high speed spin is where any sacrafice exists. I'm not a good spinner anyway, but I feel a bit bouncier on an oval.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by dledinger View Post
    I agree with attaboy. It's the low speed grind...seated or standing...where they shine. If anything, I think the high speed spin is where any sacrafice exists. I'm not a good spinner anyway, but I feel a bit bouncier on an oval.
    That's good to hear, thanks for the feed back.

    For me, coming from old-skool bmx, I always tend to "push" the pedals down for all situations, so unless I'm totally thinking about it, focusing on it, and I change up my pedal stroke to be more of a forward motion, to where the pedaling actually feels smooth and with less resistance, I resort to, or fall back into pushing down...so hoping this will actually smooth things out and maybe make it so I don't have to "think" as much about pedal stoke...hope that made sense...
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  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosbik View Post
    are oneup and AB same in ovality?
    For the oneup traction users how is the wear on the rings?
    Hey Bosbik, Our chainrings are 12% ovality and 115deg clocking. AB uses different values depending on the sku - range is 10-14% and 110-116deg.

    Wear is the same as a similarly sized round ring. If you ride aggressively or in adverse conditions we make an ICSG05 top guide that will more than double your rings retention live.

    OneUp Components US - CHAINGUIDE - ISCG05

    I hope that helps,
    Jon @ OneUp

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneUp View Post
    Hey Bosbik, Our chainrings are 12% ovality and 115deg clocking. AB uses different values depending on the sku - range is 10-14% and 110-116deg.

    Wear is the same as a similarly sized round ring. If you ride aggressively or in adverse conditions we make an ICSG05 top guide that will more than double your rings retention live.

    OneUp Components US - CHAINGUIDE - ISCG05

    I hope that helps,
    Jon @ OneUp
    ================

    hey thanks Jon. I really like that chainguide..any plans for non iscg frames?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosbik View Post
    ================

    hey thanks Jon. I really like that chainguide..any plans for non iscg frames?
    Depends on which standard. If it is a threaded frame you can just get an ISCG05 adapter that sandwiches between the BB shell and BB.

    Oval vs asymmetric rings-bsadaptor-2013-08-31.jpg

    We are also working on other direct mount FD options.

    Cheers,
    Jon @ OneUp

  43. #243
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    i hope you add a threaded BB mounted version to your plans for a chainguide. I think that looks much more cleaner. or maybe a post mount chainguide

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    Here's my 2015 Stumpjumper Comp with the 32T oval chainring from One up.
    The oval ring make climbing much more easier on my legs, I don't get tired as quick as I use to on a round chainring. My buddy has the same bike with a 32T round ring and we swap bikes around yesterday... I don't think I can't or want to go back to a round chainring anymore.

    Side note... The OEM hardware didn't fit for my bike, I had to find sone at my local bike shop.

    What chainguide is that and does it work as well as a top mount guide?

  45. #245
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    Just a quick update on my chain drop issue with the Doval SNW ring (wide / narrow on one side only)

    Since I tightened up the clutch on my rear mech, I haven't had any more chain drops after several outings on it.

    I finished the last race of the state XC series in 2nd place without any mechanicals, and claimed 2nd overall in the series (despite a number of issues in previous races), so the Dovals are definitely race worthy. I'm keen to try the Rivello one though, since this looks to be a similar shape, but is available in Ti or steel, so should be much harder wearing.
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    Has someone else tried Doval with 3032 mounting system on 104bcd?

    I am having trouble getting solid fit. I have set the ocp in the middle position, added some loctite on all the surfaces from the chain Oval vs asymmetric rings-doval_after_ride.jpgring to "ocp ring" to spider and tensioned the mounting screws as tight as I could without risking to break the screws.

    Still I get some counter clockwise slipping after pedaling hard.
    I am afraid that after slipping there is some tension that is not designed to be and something could break.

    You can clearly see from the slipping marks where the screws were before and now after ride.

  47. #247
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    That's my primary complaint on the Doval rings. They come up with stupidly complex mounting that puts bolts in shear instead of tension, causing slippage. They obviously don't actually ride their rings....

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    That's my primary complaint on the Doval rings. They come up with stupidly complex mounting that puts bolts in shear instead of tension, causing slippage. They obviously don't actually ride their rings....
    Yeah, and at first I was excited about the solution to have 30T (32T is too much on 1x10 with 11-36 rear cassette) oval on 104bcd, but still had some doubts about the small bolts.

    I took the ring once more apart, cleaned the surfaces, added plenty of loctite and then used a torque wrench to tighten the bolts.

    Previously I had used normal 3mm hex tool to tighten the bolts as tight as I was comfortable with the hex tool. Now with the torque wrench, 6Nm was the limit that I dared, practically 0.5 to 1 revolutions tighter than with the hex tool.

    I also decided to let the loctite cure 20h (hopefully that is enough) and will see the results this evening.

    If there is still slipping, then next it could be fixed OCP dovals or absolute black or some other as ovals appear to be the way to go.
    Last night on a test run I was able to successfully climb few spots that I thought I couldn't, but still decided to give a try

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    What chainguide is that and does it work as well as a top mount guide?
    Sorry, I didn't see this post...

    The chain guide came with the bike. 2015 Stumpjumper FSR Comp. Other than once after a big "ran out of talent" moment, the chain never came off so I never felt like I needed a top guide. Kind of nice not to have the chain flopping around excessively...

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  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    That's my primary complaint on the Doval rings. They come up with stupidly complex mounting that puts bolts in shear instead of tension, causing slippage. They obviously don't actually ride their rings....
    That's what steer me away too. Lot of hardware IMO... really happy with the Oneup so far. Took few ride to get use to the different feel, now I can't feel the oval anymore... just like a natural motion. I do feel the difference when I got back to a standar chainring!

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  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    What chainguide is that and does it work as well as a top mount guide?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    Sorry, I didn't see this post...

    The chain guide came with the bike. 2015 Stumpjumper FSR Comp. Other than once after a big "ran out of talent" moment, the chain never came off so I never felt like I needed a top guide. Kind of nice not to have the chain flopping around excessively...

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    Bionicon C. Guide or a copy of some kind: C.guide eco Chain Guide

  52. #252
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    So I'm still having issues with chain drops on the Dovals. It seems good when new, and with a new chain, but with a bit of wear, it seems to get worse.

    I think wear is exacerbated due to the rings being made from 6000 series alu (7075 now available on ebay) and the retention isn't as secure since they are only NW on one face of the ring.

    I really don't want to have to use a chainguide. Partly because of weight, but I also think having an object there, gives dirt a place to accumulate, and then drop on the chain (particularly on 29ers where the tire is so close to the guide). So this rules out the Rivello ring for me, until they come out with a true NW ring.

    Having read all Michaels experiments regarding clocking, and have experimented with the clocking on my road Q-rings, I feel that having a later clocking is beneficial, and perhaps has more of an effect than the shape of the ring. (I still feel I prefer the shape of the doval, but when I clock my q-rings to a similar position, OCP 7 - 9, it does feel better to me than the standard OCP 3 position).

    So I just did a search on Oval NW rings with a 104 BCD. There's a lot more available now than a few years ago, but most seem to have clocking in the 108 - 115 degree range, which is much earlier than the position I like on the doval.
    Then I found these: FOURIERS :: Products

    Looks interesting. Has adjustable clocking. Doesn't give the angle, but looks like a later clocking would be achievable. Also seems to be true NW and Alloy 7075-T651, so should be harder wearing.

    Might be worth giving it a try.
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  53. #253
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    Give the Fourier ring a try and report back. It doesn't look to be very ovalized.

    I posted this in the other thread but thought I should state it here as well:

    Yes, the shape of the bio mechanically shaped ring has a limitation in that the rapid transition in 25 degrees of rotation from the largest radius to the shortest radius creates a "flat" spot on the ring where there is no curvature. This caused multiple teeth to engage the chain simultaneously. If your chain is offline (either inboard or outboard) it is easy for the chain to fail to lay on the teeth. With more curvature, the teeth engage progressively. So I've now installed chain guides on all three bikes. The problem was not bad on the 34t MTB ring, but was a definite problem on my 44t road ring. Still, I feel this is a small compromise and is well worth the benefit of the more progressive shape. Now that I understand this limitation, I understand why Osymetric does not offer a ring for single applications. Theirs would have this same issue.

    If you've gotten used to the better late clocking for the peak radius, you're not going to like the earlier clocking on a symmetric oval. If you try to clock it later, you'll then have the low radius clocked too late. I think you'll feel this more than the benefit of the later clocking on the peak radius. This is due to the design limitation of the symmetric oval where the peak and low radius are 90 degrees apart.

    If you're dead set on not having a chainguide, than you have to accept the lesser benefit of the symmetric oval compared to the biomechanically shaped ring.

  54. #254
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    Maybe you can convince rivello to make an NW ring!
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    I did discuss this with Andris from Rivello, but now that I understand the dynamics of the chain and ring interaction, I think a narrow wide tooth profile would actually make it worse. The chain isn't bouncing off the ring.

  56. #256
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    Wolf Tooth & Garbaruk

    Did anyone try Garbaruk or Wolf Tooth? They both seem elliptical and not asymmetric.

    Wolf Tooth: 10% ovality, timing 112° after TDC, Chainline 50mm
    Garbaruk: 12% ovality, timing 108° after TDC, Chainline 47.5- 51.8 mm (26-36T)

    Any feedback Michael?

  57. #257
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    One of my riding buddies is using the Wolftooth ring. Very low ovality. They claim 10% but it looks less than the old Rotor Qring.

    Personally, I've gone back to the Doval 16% rings on both my bikes. To me they just feel right.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    Did anyone try Garbaruk or Wolf Tooth? They both seem elliptical and not asymmetric.

    Wolf Tooth: 10% ovality, timing 112° after TDC, Chainline 50mm
    Garbaruk: 12% ovality, timing 108° after TDC, Chainline 47.5- 51.8 mm (26-36T)

    Any feedback Michael?
    Oval chainrings - which model is your favorite?
    Oval chainrings - which model is your favorite?

  59. #259
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    someone reviewed the osymetric 34t? non narrow wide ringsOval vs asymmetric rings-osym.jpg

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    someone reviewed the osymetric 34t? non narrow wide ringsClick image for larger version. 

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    I wonder if it's a ligit Osymtetric ring. I see it for sale on ebay...

    Osymetric Single Chainring Mountain Bike BCD104 34T | eBay

    The shape doesn't appear to be correct. The shape is symmetric looking to me. It should have a more progressive ramp to the large radius that should peak when the crank is at 140-145 degrees. This looks like the peak radius is at 90 degrees. It looks like a squared off oval...

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    someone reviewed the osymetric 34t? non narrow wide ringsClick image for larger version. 

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    Reviving an old thread, I just installed the 34T NW Osymetric today. Riding around the block it feels pretty lumpy but hopefully will adjust to this after some real saddle time. It's definitely not oval though the picture does appear that it is. Anyone else tried this ring?
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  62. #262
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    I have a road bike with Doval DFC clipless (10,8%) - I feel that it's better than round chainrings, my cadence is higher and I have more power . I want buy this chainring for my mountain bike. What we think, what chainring Doval better in MTB - 13,5% or 16%?

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by olek123 View Post
    I have a road bike with Doval DFC clipless (10,8%) - I feel that it's better than round chainrings, my cadence is higher and I have more power . I want buy this chainring for my mountain bike. What we think, what chainring Doval better in MTB - 13,5% or 16%?
    Road or MTB shouldn't really matter. The biomechanics don't change. I prefer the 16% asymmetric rings. Unfortunately, Doval just doesn't seem to understand their rings or the proper way to mount a ring. My frustration with their designs is in the mounting system. They try to over complicate it. I'm of the opinion that "clocking" the ring is wrong. What is correct is correct regardless of the rider. Deadspot should be at 12 O'clock, power at 5 O'clock. No need for complicated adapters that put bolts in tension (which will slip). Just make a simple ring with 5 bolt holes (for 104BCD).

  64. #264
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    I've run both the 16% and the 13.5%

    I feel the 16% is better for longer style more consistent riding (marathons), and the 13.5% better for riding technical singletrack with constantly changing terrain that requires short bursts of power (pinch climbs)

    I find in singletrack, with the 16%, I'd have to change gear more to stay ontop of the gear.

    FYI, I gave up on the Dovals on my geared MTB, due to the SNW not retaining the chain well enough, but I'm still using them on my road bike and singlespeed.

    Doval need to make a competitively priced NW ring.
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    Whilst I agree with Dovals MTB, I haven't needed to adjust from the middle clocking position, I did however need to adjust the position on my Q-ring - probably because of the earlier clocking with these, compared to Dovals.

    On the road, I have adjusted the position, and I think saddle position has a big effect on ideal clocking. On my TT bike, where I would sit more forward, I need a later clocking, so that my legs are hitting the powerband at the right time.

    But since I know Doval reads this thread, i'll say it again - make a competitively priced NW ring made out of 7075, and as Michael says, ditch the complicated mounting adaptors. Also, how about some Direct mount rings.
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  66. #266
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    As I'm probably the first person here on MTV are to actually use DOVAL rings here's my experience
    I'm running 1134 rear cassette
    22-34 front chain rings
    Bash guard from BBG bashguards
    No problems keeping my chain on but I make sure that my chain is set properly for length and I use a medium to railer cage
    I have played with the clocking as I ride flats sometimes and sometimes ride SPD their idea of where to have things on the clocking seems to be fairly accurate.
    My knees are far less fatigued than they used to be especially after I injured them and was rehabbing them.
    I went to head and converted my wife's bike to the same set up and she loves it. I wrote a friends bike with was round rings for half an hour and I couldn't believe how awful I felt compared to what I was used to.
    I did have a problem with my 34 tooth ring, the The aluminum hardware for setting the clocking somehow got bent and tangled in my chain and made it so I couldn't shift into my granny gear. That was the newer two-piece ones which are lighter I was fortunate that I had an older set of DOVALs that had the single piece clocking ring so I put that on and it seems to be fine.
    All in all besides the fiasco with a bent clocking hardware I like the set up. For where I ride the North Shore of Vancouver, Mount from Mount Seymour Squamish etc. it is a fantastic set up giving me enough range to ride whatever I want without having to get off my bike.
    " I don't ride park"

  67. #267
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    PS if you're having problems with chain retention I would guess your chain is too long for the cage you're using. For 2x setup like I am using a medium cage is all you need
    " I don't ride park"

  68. #268
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    Here's another option for the spinners out there who don't want to go up to a 32T to be able to run oval.

    Oval vs asymmetric rings-15534799_232133370550078_7370939795842793472_n.jpg

    We've used steel M5 bolts and self-aligning spacers on all four tabs to create a 30T oval 104BCD ring that works with ALL 104BCD cranks.

    Enjoy,
    Jon @ OneUp

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneUp View Post
    Here's another option for the spinners out there who don't want to go up to a 32T to be able to run oval.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    We've used steel M5 bolts and self-aligning spacers on all four tabs to create a 30T oval 104BCD ring that works with ALL 104BCD cranks.

    Enjoy,
    Jon @ OneUp
    How about a 2 x system....
    Some of us live in actual mountains (north shore) and need the range. Nothing can touch the range of a 11/34 -21/34 setup. ..
    " I don't ride park"

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reelchef67 View Post
    How about a 2 x system....
    Some of us live in actual mountains (north shore) and need the range. Nothing can touch the range of a 11/34 -21/34 setup. ..
    My mountains have trails above 12,000ft, and 1*11 is good enough for me.

    Or are those not "actual mountains", in your eyes?

    Also, 30 x 10-50 XX1 Eagle blows your range out of the water.

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  71. #271
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    Oval vs asymmetric rings

    not exactly blowing my system out of the water
    My two times system is
    .32 on the high gear
    1.61 on low gear
    Eagle is
    .33 on the high gear
    1.66 on the low gear
    And I don't have to invest in a whole bunch of new expensive Dérailleurs that hang really low and close to the ground considering the technical rocky nature of the North Shore trails.
    No fire roads here to ride on.
    I also ride from my house at the base of the mountains up the mountain I don't shuttle. Ever
    The new Eagle stuff looks cool but not worth spending a whole bunch of money on.
    " I don't ride park"

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reelchef67 View Post
    No fire roads here to ride on.
    I also ride from my house at the base of the mountains up the mountain I don't shuttle. Ever
    Sounds like something that'd be fun on a single speed.

  73. #273
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    Got a Garbaruk and it's very well made. Not to mention it was cheaper than anything else.

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Sounds like something that'd be fun on a single speed.
    Um nope
    " I don't ride park"

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Sounds like something that'd be fun on a single speed.
    Not likely , mt fromme pretty climbs technical riding, lot of woodwork , slabs etc
    " I don't ride park"

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    As someone who has race face cinch direct mount and runs 1x11, it appears my options are fairly limited. I read the whole thread and would love to try out some Doval rings, but it seems like it's probably not worth paying for the conversion parts and dealing with the screw tension issues.

    That leaves AB, Oneup, wolftooth, and garbaruk (definitely didn't spell that right...). From what I remember reading it seems like several people went with garbaruk, any long-term owners care to chime in?

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonant View Post
    As someone who has race face cinch direct mount and runs 1x11, it appears my options are fairly limited. I read the whole thread and would love to try out some Doval rings, but it seems like it's probably not worth paying for the conversion parts and dealing with the screw tension issues.

    That leaves AB, Oneup, wolftooth, and garbaruk (definitely didn't spell that right...). From what I remember reading it seems like several people went with garbaruk, any long-term owners care to chime in?
    For the last few months I've been running a Works Components oval ring. Not Assymetric, but very well made and a great price too. The clocking seems to be a bit later than Q-Rings etc. I don't notice too much difference switching between them and the Doval on my singlespeed.

    I found them because I was trying to find a ring to suit an FSA carbon crank with a 94 BCD. I also have them in 104 and GXP direct mount. They also have Race face cinch:

    Chainrings & Cogs
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    Thanks for the quick reply. The price is certainly great, even w/shipping across the way it's reasonable. Will this be boost compatible or do I have do shim it to get it properly centered up?

  79. #279
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    So do you have Boost?

    Might be worth mesaging them to see what they have. I asume this one is standard.
    https://www.facebook.com/Workscomponents/

    They're a fairly small machine shop, but have built a strong reputation on their angle adjust headsets.

    Personally, if I had a Boost bike, I'd be trying to fit a standard non boost chainring on. This would give an almost perfect chainline (middle of cassette on 135/142 is 45mm, so boost is 48mm). However, most frames will probably have clearance issues between the chainring and chainstay, so if you can't adjust your chainring chainline using shims, this may be a bit risky.

    Chain line. What is it, why is it important?

    Another thought. I'm not familiar with how Race face acheive the extra offset for boost. Sram have diferent chainrings with different offset, is it the same for Race Face?
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  80. #280
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    Here's an interesting explanation from Wolftooth:
    Boost Chainline and 1x Boost Chainring Selection ? wolftoothcomponents.com
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  81. #281
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    I had read the wolftooth explanation previously, and it looks like I will have to get out the calipers and check on my 5010. Will probably send an email to raceface and SC as well, but SC customer service has been shit to me so far.

  82. #282
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    Well at least with the SC, you have a threaded BB, so would be fairly easy to add spacers to the driveside if you needed to.
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  83. #283
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    Looks like you might be OK with a non-boost chainring:

    Boost Cranks on new Bronson/5010?

    Just be aware that clearance is more of an issue with an oval, since a 32T is actually the same size as a 34T at the major axis of the oval.
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  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    So

    Personally, if I had a Boost bike, I'd be trying to fit a standard non boost chainring on. This would give an almost perfect chainline (middle of cassette on 135/142 is 45mm, so boost is 48mm). However, most frames will probably have clearance issues between the chainring and chainstay, so if you can't adjust your chainring
    This, I have a Boost Mojo3, chain line is much better with my XTR non boost crank than what I've seen of the boost ones. I was lucky enough to fit a 32t oval on it.
    That said, the XTR has the advantage of being in between at 50.4 chainline.
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  85. #285
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    One-up has the ovals on sale for $30 direct mount. Bought two 30T for Race Face cinch.

    Quality is very good. I have used Bionicon and AB before and been happy with those also. I have never experimented with the Doval or other more extreme options.

  86. #286
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    Just a heads up to anyone who may be ordering from works components, the time to get your item might be a bit longer than expected. Not sure if they shut down for a bit after the holidays, but I ordered on 1/3 and my item didn't post/ship until 1/16. Not important to me since I don't ride in the thick of winter, but figured people should know.

  87. #287
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    Hi Stonant, i'm sure you'll enjoy the ring you've gone for. Just a reminder that Absoluteblack do a RaceFace Cinch pattern in both Boost and regular spacings.

    absoluteBLACK | RaceFace OVAL Cinch DM traction chainring

    absoluteBLACK | Race Face OVAL BOOST cinch chainring

    Perhaps for next time!

    Cheers

  88. #288
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    I just found this forum and it's excellent that we have two manufacturer representatives responding directly here, thanks you two.

    Now for my questions/setup/observations over the past 6 months/2000 miles. I'm on my second Absolute Black 30T Oval Direct Mount 0mm offset chainring (I cannot speak to the quality of the other Oval chainring manufacturers, but the quality of AB is excellent). FYI- I'm on a Camber with an XX1 cassette/drivetrain in Marin county CA.

    I am writing because I want to hear how others are doing on their Oval chainrings but specifically size of the Oval used, terrain you are riding, and how much climbing you are doing (%) to going downhill? I ask because I now feel strongly/have enough experience to support when I feel ovals benefit versus when round benefit. I now definitely do not believe ovals are good in all situations (I used to believe this); however, I do believe for some situations they beat rounds hands down. If it's alright I will respond back after several people respond with what I believe/have observed if people are interested (if not I'll shut up but I'm looking to see others experiences before projecting my opinion with N=1). Thank you all in advance and sorry for the long post.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purdue22 View Post
    I am writing because I want to hear how others are doing on their Oval chainrings but specifically size of the Oval used, terrain you are riding, and how much climbing you are doing (%) to going downhill? I ask because I now feel strongly/have enough experience to support when I feel ovals benefit versus when round benefit. I now definitely do not believe ovals are good in all situations (I used to believe this); however, I do believe for some situations they beat rounds hands down. If it's alright I will respond back after several people respond with what I believe/have observed if people are interested (if not I'll shut up but I'm looking to see others experiences before projecting my opinion with N=1). Thank you all in advance and sorry for the long post.
    Hey Purdue22 - That's for asking. I won't comment on brand differences other than to say that most common oval rings use clocking and ovality in the same ballpark as Rotor (ie. 90deg different to biopace).

    I'm lucky enough to live in Squamish so my riding mix is almost entirely pedally downhill trails accessed using relatively (sometimes very) steep singletrack uphills. The summers are very dry and the winters are very wet (we can ride trail 11 months of the year). In both seasons traction is at a premium.

    For all of us at OneUp the oval advantage is 100% about traction and/or more constant cadence on grunty, rooty or steep sections of trail. I personally do not believe there is any power advantage or fatigue lessening and they will not make you quicker (other than avoiding lost time caused by spinouts or stalls).

    Here is our pitch from day one:

    "Will I see power gains switching to oval?

    No, sorry to disappoint, maybe you should get an E-bike! There are lots of biomechanics studies investigating the benefits of oval and other non circular chainrings for road biking. Almost all of them focus on power gains.

    The reality is that the power advantages of oval rings are so minute that they can only be measured with elite level professional athletes on a turbo trainer or test track.

    For mountain biking the real benefit is increased climbing traction."
    Now the weaknesses. We don't believe ovals have any place on road bikes (at least not in the big ring position). There are very few studies that support an advantage and just as many that disagree. A recent study from the University of Utah found that the ankle joint of subjects had more angular motion when riding ovals therefore negating the oval geometry at any cadence you would find yourself spinning in your big ring.

    http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-co...ax-and-max.pdf

    At the end on the day you should ride what you like.

    I hope that helps,
    Jon @ OneUp
    Last edited by OneUp; 01-27-2017 at 08:58 AM.

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    Great to hear you Jon.

    We're united on the point about traction. In our view, It's THE advantage for those challenging conditions. I live in the West Country (England), full of steep, slippery, rooty, rock-infested climbs that are often borderline makeable. I'm a rider of decent skill but limited power, and I need every advantage I can find, to chase the stronger/more skilled and gap the weaker/less skilled.

    Like you, I find Oval helps me clean these sections with a smoother more controlled delivery of torque. Working with the trail surface and available tread and mate the two together - second by second - with more clarity than i can with round.

    Yeah, its a small advantage. Team Sky would call it a marginal gain - in the overall scheme of a ride. I like gains, marginal or otherwise. I'm a mountain biker by heart, I wear Lycra, tuck on descents, wear carbon sole shoes, go peakless anything in the chase to go faster, further and with less effort.

    Sure, road inner is a good idea. Road outer the effect is less, though we find that for riders with 'agricultural' stompy pedaling actions, rather than the usually polished spins of lab-rat roadies, there is still a benefit.

    At the end of the day you should ride what you like. ; )

    Cheers.
    AB

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    I'm just going to say that I went to AB ovals about 1 year ago and it felt natural 5 rotations of the cranks in. I feel this is a good thing.

    The product is light, well built, never drops chains, and looks nice.

    I get the racers trying many different things trying to eke out any advantage, but I don't have time for all that. So I choose a product that has been well tested by the manufacturer instead. I see no reason to ever go back to round rings.

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    Hi Suns, Thanks for the vote of confidence in Absoluteblack and oval as a 'thing'.

    Have fun and pass it on!

    Cheers,
    AB

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    Thanks for the responses guys, I greatly appreciate it. I agree with everything you both typed and love the honesty.

    So what I see is as follows: My daily ride is ~1.5hrs (typical ride is 1 hour of total climbing and 30 minutes of downs). For the past two months, nearly ever day, I have grinded out a few different paths (a mix of dry, wet, and muddy days) over and over to test my theory on 28t and 30t rounds as well as 30t oval.

    On routes with the long grueling straight climbs for 1 hour I actually get faster times with the 28t/30t round chainrings in comparison to using the oval 30t. I attribute this (and perhaps I am wrong) to the fact that on long climbs the 30t oval (having the feeling of a 32t and 28t) actually wears me out much earlier and therefore my times are slower. I hypothesize that since my cadence is much slower I am actually seeing a negative associated with the "32t-ness" of the 30t oval.

    When going on rides with a mix of ups short or shorter ups and downs throughout the 1.5hr ride the difference is essentially nonexistent in terms of times and/or perceived effort. I do notice what appears to be a smoother pedal stroke and I do believe on the short steep ups my rear wheel spins have been drastically reduced. As far as knee comfort/pain I cannot tell an actual difference either way.

    Just wanted to put this out there in case it helps anyone decide when to run an oval over a round. Disclaimer - this is my N=1 input so clearly it is not a perfect experiment; however, I have put in ~2000 miles over 6 months in the same location/trails and I strongly believe what I have typed.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purdue22 View Post
    I attribute this (and perhaps I am wrong) to the fact that on long climbs the 30t oval (having the feeling of a 32t and 28t) actually wears me out much earlier and therefore my times are slower. I hypothesize that since my cadence is much slower I am actually seeing a negative associated with the "32t-ness" of the 30t oval.
    What about 28T oval? When I got mine I sized down exactly for the reason you describe.

    Also what about just shifting down? Are you already in the slowest gear?

  95. #295
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    In dry conditions I prefer the ratios of the 30t over the 28t and yes I have to utilize the slowest gear on some climbs...

    Also (and this is to the manufacturers) I know that a 28T Direct Mount 0mm offset is possible (but not as popular as the other sizes at least according to Stan at Absolute Black) so please put one out soon as I am sure there are a good number of us that are willing to buy. I know you have it in 3mm (which would probably work for my bike I just haven't tried it yet) and 6mm...

  96. #296
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    I find the power delivery of the oval allows me to focus more on the managing of myself during a climb. With round, I am doing a dual act of balancing, trying not to lift the front wheel, or spin the rear. This is a fatigue factor in itself. The focus then shifts to me as I can then better watch where I am going and control the situation(s) I am confronted with. I can focus on breathing and power input, and control them better. So for me, on a climb, this is less stressful and I feel fresher at the end. I too, will attest that in the higher speed road range, that round works better for me. I do not find the oval excelerates as well, and a high pedal cadence is annoyingly 'bouncy' on the saddle. Slow cadence 'torque' grinding is its forte.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  97. #297
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    I just ordered a OneUp 30t traction ring for my trance and have a sunrace 11-42 cassette with goat link out back. My trails are short up and downs and I don't ride to the trail head so I think it should let me use more of the cassette range as I wasn't with my 34t raceface round ring. I don't care if I spin out as on these techy trails I will be coasting before topping out. Looking forward to gripping up better while climbing in an easier gear as I am rocking a bad knee. I wanted to try oval anyway. I should add it's nice to deal with a Canadian supplier. Keep the great options coming!

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by noose; 01-28-2017 at 09:27 PM.
    2015 Giant Trance 3
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