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  1. #1
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    This new shifting system with the brake levers...

    Well, new to me anyway. This seemed like the most applicable forum, if not please let me know a better one.

    My concern here is that I like this new shifting, where the brake lever is pushed down to make the shift, but on my test rides I noticed that I was braking slightly and briefly with every shift. I realize I can move the levers up (rotating upwards around the bar) a little to try and minimize this, but is there a way to adjust this whole setup so that the hydraulic braking system is made less sensitive, so that an accidental slight pulling back won't actually touch the pads to the rotors? In other words, make it so that the levers have to be pulled back a little farther to actually engage the pads? Anyone do any tweaking of this system? Anyone start out liking it and then wound up getting rid of it?

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
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    An easier solution....

    Don't pull in when you're pushing down.

    If you're engaging the brake, then you're pulling in with your fingers. If you have trouble separating those two motions, may you could try to push down and out on the lever instead of down and pulling in.

  3. #3
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    Even easier solution:

    Get rid of that new Dual Control crap and get regular shifters and brake levers...
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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  4. #4
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    get sram triggers x-9 or x-0 and x gen rear derailleur and be done withit....
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  5. #5
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    You need to optimally position them in terms of reach for your hand with the small screw just behind the lever pivot and angle. Most users typically set them 20-30mm away from the grip to make them easier to operate at the edge of the lever. I've heard of people accidentally braking slightly when trying to pull them up with their index and middle fingers if the reach is too far out for the finger length but this is the first I've ever heard of pushing down. You should be pushing them straight down and not back. If you're having dificulty doing this you most likely have a significant lever positioning problem.

  6. #6
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    Push them down with an open hand, (fingers extended) and then you won't be braking while shifting

    Absolutely love the dual-control.

    Tried a SRAM bike the other day, and while the shifting does feel solid, I hated the trigger shifters.

  7. #7
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    I have the dual control shifters also. When I first started using them, it took a little while to get used to them. I had more problems with how they felt while braking on a steep, rocky downhill.

    If you adjust the screw behind the lever you may be ok. Play with positioning.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Get rid of that new Dual Control crap and get regular shifters and brake levers...
    2nd that motion. Just today on a trail I frequent, I was zoning out and did not down shift ahead of a sandy wash that follows a very fast downhill. As a result, I had to downshift while braking. I was able to shave off speed with my levers as I used my thumb on the trigger shifter. As I was doing it, I realized how glad I was that I had not been intimidated by all those big time bikers in the new Shimano ads making tough-guy faces and holding up two fingers. That big ad campaign two years after the release of the product tells me that the dual control thing is not catching on the way they had hoped it would.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlamProne
    My concern here is that I like this new shifting, where the brake lever is pushed down to make the shift, but on my test rides I noticed that I was braking slightly and briefly with every shift. I realize I can move the levers up (rotating upwards around the bar) a little to try and minimize this, but is there a way to adjust this whole setup so that the hydraulic braking system is made less sensitive, so that an accidental slight pulling back won't actually touch the pads to the rotors?
    I use my dual-control system different from anyone else I have read about, but I find it to be very comfortable. I set my levers fairly low on the bar. I never brake with anything other than my middle finger. All of my shifting comes from behind the blade. I either user my middle finger+second finger to push out and down or I use my second finger+my pinky finger to press press out and up. To the best of my memory, I have never experienced non intentional braking when I was trying to shift. My thumb and index finger never move from my grips.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Just today on a trail I frequent, I was zoning out and did not down shift ahead of a sandy wash that follows a very fast downhill. As a result, I had to downshift while braking. I was able to shave off speed with my levers as I used my thumb on the trigger shifter.
    That's interesting. Being able to easily shift while braking is one of the main things I like about my dual-control levers.



    I am very glad so many of you folks don't dig the dual-control levers. This means I am able to get them aplenty and cheap on eBay whenever I wish.

  10. #10
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    Actually the more people turn down the dual-control levers the more likely Shimano will just quit making them and focus on what they make best: trigger shifters.
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Actually the more people turn down the dual-control levers the more likely Shimano will just quit making them and focus on what they make best: trigger shifters.
    What is so much better about trigger shifters? Dual control is simpler & more intuitive.

    I admit that it took me a few rides to adjust to the dual control + rapid rise. Now, when I ride my friend's bikes with triggers, I can't beleive how awkward and clunky it feels.

  12. #12
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    Trigger shifters are better because they have been around so long that people are accustomed to them. The same holds true for non-rapid rise derailluers. I haven't met very people around here who favor Dual-Control or Rapid Rise.

    But then again most people around here son't like SRAM either...
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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  13. #13
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    I don't know how the dual system is set up but i'm thinking if you have 1 componet doing 2 jobs when something breaks your out those 2 functions. So if it breaks are you out of a shifter and a brake? Seems less durable in the long run. i prefer triggers 'cause i shot from the hip!
    Pedalpower2dapeopleyo!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Trigger shifters are better because they have been around so long that people are accustomed to them. The same holds true for non-rapid rise derailluers.
    That must stand out as the weakest attempt at justifying why triggers are better. Downtube shifters were around for decades before index shifting on road bikes to. Thats hardly makes them any better than STI shifters by that logic.

    I haven't met very people around here who favor Dual-Control or Rapid Rise.
    That doesn't mean anything. As someone else put it, RR and STI shifting doesn't satisfy the Kona0197 market.

    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Deraille...ct_20851.shtml
    The XTR RR derrailleur has been the highest rated derrailleur here since it came out in 1998 before it was the standard. It also had more and higher rated reviews than the high normal 952 model. People were CHOOSING to use it. It also had the most reviews second only to the XT in number of reviews for obvious reasons.

  15. #15
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    Are we back on this topic again? Dual control works, period. Using some of the logic above, perhaps we should go back to double-butted oversized steel tubed frames and rat traps rather than clipless pedals. Dual control is here to stay--get used to it. Any of you who are roadies will understand that this system has been on road bikes for years, and it works great. Shifts are smooth, intuitive, and most importantly downshifting to a lower gear no longer happens under load.

    That being said, if you're unintentionally braking while you're shifting with the DCL, you're just going to have to train yourself to separate those motions, and re-adjusting the paddle angles may help accomplish that. Good luck.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekfuelkingston
    ...Using some of the logic above, perhaps we should go back to double-butted oversized steel tubed frames and rat traps rather than clipless pedals..
    Many changes have come out over the years. Some have lasted because they were improvements. I guess you think trigger shifters are going away. You could be right, but I don't think the Dual Control is a system that suits everyone. I think both options will be around for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by trekfuelkingston
    ...most importantly downshifting to a lower gear no longer happens under load.
    This is not specific to dual control levers. It has to do with running a Rapid Rise rear derailleur which can be done with trigger shifters.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_eleven
    Absolutely love the dual-control.

    Over the years, I've tried them all. Used SRAM for a long time, used triggers from Big S. Resisted rapid Rise and Dual Control until this spring.

    I gotta say, it is absolutely the most easy to use, intuitive, sharp shifting system I've ever used. So much so, that I've gone out and put it on all my mtb bikes.

    I agree - I also absolutely love the dual control AND the rapid rise!

  18. #18
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    OK. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grampa
    Over the years, I've tried them all. Used SRAM for a long time, used triggers from Big S. Resisted rapid Rise and Dual Control until this spring.

    I gotta say, it is absolutely the most easy to use, intuitive, sharp shifting system I've ever used. So much so, that I've gone out and put it on all my mtb bikes.

    I agree - I also absolutely love the dual control AND the rapid rise!
    I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken... If so many of you claim that braking and shifting simultaneously is not a problem with DC, and that the shifting is intuitive, maybe I will have to borrow my brother's bike and spend some time on it (certainly not going to pay for it when I am very pleased with my current set up!). It just seems so awkward having to lift the lever up with one's fingers while trying to hang on through knarly stuff. Also, I have read several posts in the past about the XT DC levers having a lot of slop in them, so either they fixed it, or most of you are raving about the XTR version (?).

  19. #19
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    In which direction are downshifts / upshifts done with DC???

    As for Rapid rise... I had a cheap arse RR RD (C-201 - Shimano) which used grip shifters. It was nice and intuitive. You rotated the grip towards you for upshifting and the opposite direction for downshifting. It made braking while shifting easy (twisting your wrist forwards while squeezing the brake lever at the same time is very easy - all your hand muscles are contracting at the same time). Shifting was like acting on a motorcycle's throttle grip... intuitive, easy. You wanted to go slow - twist forwards, wanna go fast - twist rearwards. As I use my brake levers "moto", it was a no brainer to me.

    With the road's shimano STI I could downshift+brake too... but the lever moves side to side and downshifting is made inwards the drops, so again, just one hand movement gives you lever pressing and twisting for brake/shift.

    Triggers... I don't know anything more intuitive.

    But I don't know about the DC... maybe after a while you get used to them... In the end the only thing you just can't get used to is to be hungry.

    I'd like to give them a fair try... but the price is so ridiculous that I'd rather stick to triggers.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    In which direction are downshifts / upshifts done with DC???
    .
    The front is always push down for higher gears.

    The rear depends if one is using a High-Normal or Low-Normal rear derailleur.

    Low-Normal = pushing down on the brake lever for higher gears and pull up for lower gears.

    High-Normal = pushing down for lower gears and pull up for higher gears.

    I am running dual controls on one bike using a High-Normal rear derailleur- works fine and I think is makes more sense- push Down to Down Shift, pull Up to Up Shift. I could care less if the front and rear shift in the same direction.

    One item of note- I am running XT cable dual controls and noticed that there was a plastic block in the brake lever pivot. Popped out the block and the brake levers now have increase the lever ratio as the brake lever is pulled- just like my XTR levers.

    They work, I don't see them as being any better or worse than rapid fires- just different.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    It just seems so awkward having to lift the lever up with one's fingers while trying to hang on through knarly stuff. Also, I have read several posts in the past about the XT DC levers having a lot of slop in them, so either they fixed it, or most of you are raving about the XTR version (?).
    Lever reach needs to be correctly setup for you to shift like this but most people find the best way to flick the lever up is by tapping it from underneath with a finger or two. It all depends on ho you feel the most comfortable operating them. If you are really stubborn you can just opt to keep using the thumb paddles.
    The push down motion on the lever feels absolutely natural. From the very start I thought it felt absolutely natural just like it does on the road shifters.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Lever reach needs to be correctly setup for you to shift like this but most people find the best way to flick the lever up is by tapping it from underneath with a finger or two. It all depends on ho you feel the most comfortable operating them. If you are really stubborn you can just opt to keep using the thumb paddles.
    The push down motion on the lever feels absolutely natural. From the very start I thought it felt absolutely natural just like it does on the road shifters.
    OK. Thanks for the additional info. I don't have road bike, so I probably have more of a learning curve than you did. Now, just one more question: I can see how one could be pulling the brake lever in while simultaneously pushing it down, but how could braking be accomplished while having fingers UNDER the lever lifting up? Sorry if this question is retarded--I should probably just wait until I can try it out and then see what quesions I have...

  23. #23
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    Well it can be done by only using 1 or 2 finger to pull the brake in while using the other fingers to push up on the lever from underneath.

    Just to put my opionon in I fell in love with the dual control after my first ride on a demo bike that had them. They just feel very natual and easy to use, I can flick my way through the gears with very little effort and find my self pre selecting gears when coming out of corners way more now then I did with thumb shifters. The only real problem I had getting used to them was the lever moving up and down while I was braking, I guess i was using the levers themself to help balance but after a couple of ride I no longer pull or push the levers up and down while I brake unless I am shifting.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    I can see how one could be pulling the brake lever in while simultaneously pushing it down, but how could braking be accomplished while having fingers UNDER the lever lifting up? Sorry if this question is retarded--I should probably just wait until I can try it out and then see what quesions I have...
    Don't worry, not a stupid question at all. Like I said earlier. I can see people accidentally braking when pulling up from the outside of the lever if the reach is set too far out but this is the first I've ever heard of anyone doing so by pushing down. Pushing down the rear and down motions are extremely easy to seperate so its almost a no brainer. Nevertheless not everybody operates things the same way.
    How you flick the lever up will totally depend on your style and habits. Myself I usually one finger brake with my index and flick it up with the back of my middle underneath. I kind of pinch the lever under my index and above the middle to move it up or down. Some people push down with two fingers and tap up with the last two. Others use the index and middle to flip down and move them underneath to flip up. Just remember you have the entire length on the lever blade to use as a shifter so position your hand as you prefer. When you are holding on to the grips completely just snap your fingers right up.
    Just remember that these shifters have a thumb paddle just like triggers do and most people who use them choose to take them off because they feel pushing the lever up feels more natural than clicking the thumb shifter. That kinda shoots down the idea that thumb shifting feels more natural. Not everyone will like them though. Just like many people can't stand gripshifting while others love it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Don't worry, not a stupid question at all. Like I said earlier. I can see people accidentally braking when pulling up from the outside of the lever if the reach is set too far out but this is the first I've ever heard of anyone doing so by pushing down. Pushing down the rear and down motions are extremely easy to seperate so its almost a no brainer. Nevertheless not everybody operates things the same way.
    How you flick the lever up will totally depend on your style and habits. Myself I usually one finger brake with my index and flick it up with the back of my middle underneath. I kind of pinch the lever under my index and above the middle to move it up or down. Some people push down with two fingers and tap up with the last two. Others use the index and middle to flip down and move them underneath to flip up. Just remember you have the entire length on the lever blade to use as a shifter so position your hand as you prefer. When you are holding on to the grips completely just snap your fingers right up.
    Just remember that these shifters have a thumb paddle just like triggers do and most people who use them choose to take them off because they feel pushing the lever up feels more natural than clicking the thumb shifter. That kinda shoots down the idea that thumb shifting feels more natural. Not everyone will like them though. Just like many people can't stand gripshifting while others love it.
    Well, thanks for all the information. I really don't want to want something else, but I'm kind of anxious to try out the system.

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