Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 43 of 43
  1. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: swift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    590
    Quote Originally Posted by bryceb
    I've know, as I've had three frame failures, and I know of two others in my immediate circle that have done the same while using a bone.
    I've gone back to the torque arm, as those bones put a LOT of stress into the frame, and while it's an elegant solution to using the (to some) unsightly torque arm, beware, if you do enough riding, there may be tears in your future...
    But it doesn't stop me from using the Rohloff, it's just something to be aware of.

    I was beginning to think I'm the only one that prefers the torque arm over the speedbone.

    The things I prefer about the toque arm:

    1. It comes with the Rohloff so it doesn't add cost
    2. Considering the amount of force a disc brake puts on a seatstay, it's nice to be able to isolate this from the torque the Rohloff is puts out.
    3. The torque arm looks kind of retro - kin to the coaster brakes of my youth
    4. The torque arm does a pretty good job of protecting the lower majority of a 6" rotor from impact.
    5. In my application (IronHorse MKIII) the position of the external click box is higher while using the OEM1 plate, providing a little more clearance for trail obstacles.

    All is not perfect, however. The one thing I'm not too fond of are the cheesey hose clamps that are included in the kit. Kind of a generic and cheap looking. I'm still using them but I'm in the process of building an aluminum mount block that will replace the one that comes in the kit.

    Speedbone, Monkeybone, Torque arm...Sweet hub all the same!

  2. #27
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by bryceb
    I've know, as I've had three frame failures, and I know of two others in my immediate circle that have done the same while using a bone.
    I've gone back to the torque arm, as those bones put a LOT of stress into the frame, and while it's an elegant solution to using the (to some) unsightly torque arm, beware, if you do enough riding, there may be tears in your future...
    But it doesn't stop me from using the Rohloff, it's just something to be aware of.
    I have all sorts of questions, because I haven't even seen a picture posted of one of these failures.

    Did the failed tabs meet Rohloff's specs? I can't locate a thickness requirement, though I recall it was 6 or 7mm. They call for a 6mm wall width around the mounting hole, and that the tabs be machined from / same piece as the dropout (not welded separately to the chainstay).

    I'm curious what the failure looked like. Was it from clockwise (forward) rotation? Did it break the tubing, or crack a weld? Were they all similar looking?

    I'm not questioning your claim, just very interested in seeing what happened. I took Rohloff's liability waiver, and all of their cautions, when I first used a Speedbone on an NRS. Stopped paying attention after that -- must have figured if I couldn't break an NRS, I'd be OK on everything else. I'd love to see a photo of a failure if you have one to share.
    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  3. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    I have all sorts of questions, because I haven't even seen a picture posted of one of these failures.

    Did the failed tabs meet Rohloff's specs? I can't locate a thickness requirement, though I recall it was 6 or 7mm. They call for a 6mm wall width around the mounting hole, and that the tabs be machined from / same piece as the dropout (not welded separately to the chainstay).

    I'm curious what the failure looked like. Was it from clockwise (forward) rotation? Did it break the tubing, or crack a weld? Were they all similar looking?

    I'm not questioning your claim, just very interested in seeing what happened. I took Rohloff's liability waiver, and all of their cautions, when I first used a Speedbone on an NRS. Stopped paying attention after that -- must have figured if I couldn't break an NRS, I'd be OK on everything else. I'd love to see a photo of a failure if you have one to share.
    Hi Nate. all of the failures were of a similar nature. Two were on alloy FS 29'ers and one on a steel hardtail 29'er. I don't want to mention brands here as it is unfair to the manufacturers, but the hardtail was a custom and the builder was specifically asked to build to Rohloffs specs, but didn't and the bike eventually broke. He repaired the frame for me and followed Rohloffs specs, but a little to late!
    The first of the FS alloy frames was sold to me on the belief of the supplier that the Rohloff would be fine, but wasn't, and the second (different manufacturer) meet a similar fate, after telling the builder of my woes and I had his absolute belief and guarrantee that there wouldn't be an issue. That frame broke after seven months, and he has subseqently re-modelled the chainstay. A sister bike bought at the same time broke in exactly the same place after two years of riding, but he doesn't do as much as I, or is as hard on gear apparantly.
    we ride a lot of very steep stuff and it seems that the braking forces together with the Rohloff torque input, and quite possibly the extra stresses impossed by the larger wheel amplifying the torque enhances the problem. You get a situation where braking and torque forces are push-pulling against each other, and we all know aluminium doesn't handle those sort of forces very well.
    Here are some pix for you.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #29
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Wow, all very impressive, especially photo #1 which appears to be a steel frame using a Rohloff-specific dropout (no Speedbone involved, I assume?).

    So far I've had no frame failures to speak of. Going back to 2001, between my wife and I, I've had the Speedhub installed on the following list of aluminum frames:

    '01 Marin Mt. Vision w/ Speedbone
    '01 Van Dessel Buzz Bomb w/ Rohloff dropouts
    '01 Giant NRS w/ Speedbone
    '03 Iron Horse Hollowpoint w/ SB
    '05 Iron Horse MkIII w/ SB
    '05 Iron Horse Azure w/ SB
    '07 Niner RIP9 w/ SB, now Monkey Bone
    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  5. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    44

    impressive...

    Quote: So far I've had no frame failures to speak of. Going back to 2001, between my wife and I, I've had the Speedhub installed on the following list of aluminum frames:

    '01 Marin Mt. Vision w/ Speedbone
    '01 Van Dessel Buzz Bomb w/ Rohloff dropouts
    '01 Giant NRS w/ Speedbone
    '03 Iron Horse Hollowpoint w/ SB
    '05 Iron Horse MkIII w/ SB
    '05 Iron Horse Azure w/ SB
    '07 Niner RIP9 w/ SB, now Monkey Bone



    Nate, I first put a Rohloff on a K2 Razorback in early 2001and my next Rohloff arrived on a Van Dessel Buzz Bomb (snap!)
    The list that followed was: Curtlo 29 HT, 29' Asylum FS, Ventana El Capitan FS which I've now had for 2.3 years.
    The steel bike was built with the Rohloff slot, but I was actually using the speedbone when it broke as I'd been swapping the Rohloff wheel out between it and the Asylum depending on the mood of the day. The orginal build of the steel bike wasn't up to Rohloffs spec at all, and I think this was the first 29er and first Rohloff specific bike Doug had built at the time, and I don't think he'd seen a Rohloff at that point, let alone fully understood the stresses they put through the frame. We had to weld a bracket onto the frame and extend the slot here (in nz), after discussions with him when it became apparant that what he'd done for me wasn't going to work.
    Full credit to all three manufacturers though, they all stood by the their bikes, Speedgoat refunded in full, Doug did a beautifully rebuild, and Ventana instantly replaced the swingarms, despite bad timing (for them, they were packing for a show or something when it broke but still found time to fabricate a new swingarm.
    I have absolutely nothing bad to say about any of these manufacturers, and the fact that I live in New Zealand, and they still all rushed to fix the problem when others may have took the view that New Zealand is far enough away to ignore, speaks volumes for all three, and I have no hesititation in recommending any of them, they are all top people/companies to deal with.
    As I've intimated in a previous post, we do a lot of very steep climbing here, and I suspect that the big wheels add to the problem by effectively adding more leverage hence torque to the equation. I do run my gearing a bit lower than I should be all the same, with 34:16, but if there is going to be a parting of the metals, it should be in the hub, not the frame!, so I don't really think that is a factor with overstressing the frame but thought I'd better mention it.

    However....., (!), if it were me, I'd be running a torque arm on the Niner. We're getting a few running around here and I've had a good look at them as well and I've spent time riding them, and despite the fact that you'd have to articulate the torque arm (wouldn't be hard) to make it work, I'd be wary of doing it any other way.
    It may take six months before anything broke or it may take two years, but the forces are still going into the frame and have no other option but to stress the metal and one day something must happen in my opinion.

    I note that most of your mounts have been 26ers (bar the Buzz Bomb, which is a great bike, and mine has been riden non-stop for six years now by just two riders,(me and the guy I sold it to) and it's never given a problem! Simple is best!), and I suspect that it is hard to stress a 26" frame to the point of breakage as easily as a 29er. I have another friend who broke his 26" frame after 18 months of riding (7 days a week riding) in a similar manner to my pix, so it is not impossible.

    When I sheared my frames, they all without exception just snapped with no warnings, creakings or odd behaviour. It was quite impressive acutally, especially the steel frame which let go with quite an impressive bang.

    Anyway, I don't want to rain on anyones parade, and I've ridden the Rip and it is a beautiful bike, it impressed the hell out of me, but I'd personally would be very cautious about running a speedbone on it. It's not the bikes fault, it's just they way the hub works, and that gearing generates a huge amount of torque which has to go somewhere.

    My other hub is on my partners Karate Monkey, and I use a speedbone on it. I know for a fact (no disrespect honey) that she'll never stress the frame to the point of breakage like I've been prone to doing, and I'm happy to have that bike configured in this manner. It makes for a heavy monkey, but a reliable one that she threatens me with violence if I ever try to alter in anyway.

    I run my El Capitan with the torque arm, despite them now offering a Rohloff ready slotted swingarm, which I think is still prone to the same problem.

    But I'm not an engineer, so this post doesn't carry a lot of weight behind it other than I know what works for me and what doesn't. I hope that it may stop someone else having the problems I encountered, but at the end of the day, what the hell, if you do snap a chainstay every now and then, it's not the end of the world, they are replaceable, and they only seem to snap when you are climbing so it's not like they are life threatening!

    Good luck with Niner and Rohloff, I reckon that would be a great combination, just as it is with the El Capitan. The Cap with Nevegals both ends (it's winter here and I like the grip), gravity dropper and a Maverick comes in at about 34.5lb which sounds heavy I know, but it always seems to go further, climb better and never have a mechanical, which more than compensates for the constant and unrelenting derision me and my big wheeled, whirry-planetary geared bike seems to be a target for. However, having three frames snap under me due to the Rohloff does give them plenty of ammo to play with, and God forbid I ever break a fourth frame!

  6. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,272
    Hey Nate, you should have emailed me about this! Maybe John and I should both get them...

    I'm using my Speedbone with the horizontal dropouts on my Vassago. As long as I don't need to change a flat... I think I'll be okay. I should post a picture and get your opinion...

    Oh yeah, John uses a 185 (or is it 180) rear rotor on his Magura Lousie FR brakes. Is the "Monkey Bone" only available for 160mm rotors???

  7. #32
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Oh yeah, John uses a 185 (or is it 180) rear rotor on his Magura Lousie FR brakes. Is the "Monkey Bone" only available for 160mm rotors???
    Yeah, only 160 so far. But email Neil at Cycle Monkey. I think he's testing the water for other sizes. Based on the number of 160mm Speedhub rotors sold, compared to other sizes, I bet he wasn't counting on much demand for 180 or 203.
    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  8. #33
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,205

    Hmmm...interesting..

    That's interesting about the frame breakages...

    Now you have got me thinking....



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  9. #34
    rohloff rich
    Reputation: rs3o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    397
    bryceb:

    Did you ever talk to Rohloff about the frame breakages? I'd be curious to hear what they have to say about them.

  10. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    44

    No,

    ...didn't see the point really. I'd found it hard enough in the past to get a reply out of the Germans as they never seemed to answer their emails, and the local dealers seem to come and go, or refer you to their agent in Australia, who are even less helpful.
    Thomas in the US is a good dude, but I've never discussed this with him.
    I only use the Rohloff in winter now anyway, and I've always liked the torque arm so I have no problem with using it. I thought the Speedbone might have been a cleaner option function wise, but in reality there is little in it. Shame I went through all that hassle only to end up back where I started though....
    Still, lesson learned, for me anyway....

  11. #36
    King of vegetarians
    Reputation: yoginasser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by rs3o
    bryceb:

    Did you ever talk to Rohloff about the frame breakages? I'd be curious to hear what they have to say about them.
    None of the frames were up to Rohloff specs,what would anyone say?
    Black Sheep Dream Bike Design
    www.blacksheepbikes.com
    The future is not retro proof.

  12. #37
    rohloff rich
    Reputation: rs3o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by yoginasser
    None of the frames were up to Rohloff specs,what would anyone say?
    I wasn't saying that the OP should talk to Rohloff and say "Wahh! your hub broke my frames!" More to say "I know my frames weren't up to the Rohloff spec, but did you guys know that this is what can happen when a Rohloff is paired with a 29" wheel?"(assuming that is, in fact, the issue). I've never heard of a Rohloff breaking a frame (much less three frames) and figured the manufacturer would want to know about it. They could then pass that info on to other consumers, as in "your frame damn well better be up to spec or this could happen to you."

  13. #38
    King of vegetarians
    Reputation: yoginasser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by rs3o
    I wasn't saying that the OP should talk to Rohloff and say "Wahh! your hub broke my frames!" More to say "I know my frames weren't up to the Rohloff spec, but did you guys know that this is what can happen when a Rohloff is paired with a 29" wheel?"(assuming that is, in fact, the issue). I've never heard of a Rohloff breaking a frame (much less three frames) and figured the manufacturer would want to know about it. They could then pass that info on to other consumers, as in "your frame damn well better be up to spec or this could happen to you."
    I see
    Black Sheep Dream Bike Design
    www.blacksheepbikes.com
    The future is not retro proof.

  14. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    131

    Turner Flux Rohloff with Monkeybone

    Neil sent me a Monkeybone for my conversion of the Flux to the Rohloff Speedhub (I'm in the UK).

    Really neat bit of kit, you can hardly see it, so much better than the Speedbone. Wheel is easy to locate when fixing a puncture etc.

    Just had to put a washer between the frame and the Monkeybone to space the XT disc caliper out slightly.

    Here's an image of the left hand drop out, with the Monkeybone in place of the Speedbone, but its difficult to see as it is so neat.


    More images of the Flux here.
    http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=350917

  15. #40
    caffeine dependent
    Reputation: bstiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Neil from Cycle Monkey, in his spare time between some pretty wicked custom wheel builds, came up with a super-clean, weight-saving alternative to Rohloff's Speedbone. He was telling me about this just a few months ago, and yesterday dropped one of his first production samples into my hands.

    blah blah photos blah...
    I like it. Too bad the weight savings won't be noticeable on my 30-lb hardtail, but at least this will take care of the Dremel mod on my Speedbone:



    This has been working fine since the help in this thread, but I'm worried that if I ever get out on a long ride again, that the 'bone will break when I get to the farthest point on the ride from the car.

    I hope that the Monkey Bone would be more tolerant of the On-One's slider dropout/slot brake mounts than the current speedbone setup. I haven't bothered to have a long, hard look at it (as you can probably tell, I'm pretty lazy), but the OEM2 plate doesn't engage the pin on the Speedbone as well as I'd like it to on portions of the dropout travel and corresponding brake fiddling.

  16. #41
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Should be no fitment issues, as long as your axle position meets IS specs in relation to the disc tabs.

    Neil's Monkey Bone is doing nothing different than the OEM2 axle plate, which is the basis for the Speedbone.

    In fact, the final position of the Speedbone nub is based entirely on correct orientation of the IS tabs to the axle, so I'm surprised you're seeing any kind of alignment problem. Whatever the case, eliminating the Speedbone removes one variable from the equation, so any fit issues you're having *should* be improved.

    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  17. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14
    Interesting stuff folks...both the Monkeybone and the detail on the frame breakages...thanks for sharing.

  18. #43
    caffeine dependent
    Reputation: bstiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate

    In fact, the final position of the Speedbone nub is based entirely on correct orientation of the IS tabs to the axle, so I'm surprised you're seeing any kind of alignment problem. Whatever the case, eliminating the Speedbone removes one variable from the equation, so any fit issues you're having *should* be improved.
    I agree that the OEM2-Speedbone relationship is dependent on the disc tabs to the axle, and that's wherein the problem lies on my On-One. The brake slots on my 06 Inbred aren't the new linear slots, they're the ones that move the caliper through some silly arc. If the photo that I'd included in the previous post were visible (sorry, haven't fixed it yet. Told you I'm lazy) you could see what I mean. At any rate, I just picked up a Voodoo Dambala with the disc tabs integrated into the sliding dropout, so hopefully this will be mo' betta. Frame should show up soon, I'll be catching up with Neil to get one.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •