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  1. #1
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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Here are some news about Shimano XTR 1x11 groupset:

    2015 NEW SHIMANO! | MTB-News.de

  2. #2
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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    For real this time?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik8yu View Post
    For real this time?
    It's hard to say. The website in OP's post definitely looks bogus. But saying that, Shimano has been doing 11-speed stuff on their road bikes for at least a couple years now, so it's only a matter of time before that technology moves over to mountain bikes.

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    Dude. It's pictures of a Shimano catalog. Did you see the Di2 stuff???

  5. #5
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    mtb-news.de is not a bogus site It is one of the biggest german mtb forums.

    Anyhow. The info is most likely legit. I had it cross-confirmed with other sources

  6. #6
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    Picture speak for themselves.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11-1.jpg  

    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11-2.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #7
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    Those cranks are sexy! 11-40T should be a large enough range for most riders.

  8. #8
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    The link threw me to a bike related spam site for some reason! Apologies, guys.

    That reminds me, my computer has been running slow and acting funky lately, maybe it's time to clean it out...

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    The thread in my link has obviously been deleted...

  10. #10
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    Finally!

    Looks like no special drive shell is needed. 11-40 is a good call by shimano - at least it is for my east coast needs.

    I think the cranks look cheesy but I won't be buying them anyway. Just want the shifter, cassette and derailleur.

  11. #11
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    11-40 1x11 is not enough for me. i will stick with 2x10 until the x9.1 becomes available.

  12. #12
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    It'll still force you to buy new wheels...or at least a rear if your hub is not compatible with the 11sp freehub.

    I was on the verge of going XX1/01 until I found out that my new rear wheel is not XD compatible. I doubt that the Shimano 11sp will be compatible either.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    It'll still force you to buy new wheels...or at least a rear if your hub is not compatible with the 11sp freehub.

    I was on the verge of going XX1/01 until I found out that my new rear wheel is not XD compatible. I doubt that the Shimano 11sp will be compatible either.
    This is the one deterring factor in making the switch. Can't ad the wheel part into the budget equation. :/
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    I like the Di2 but the range of the cassette is to limited 11/40 compared to srams 10/42

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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Nice to see 2/3 X still being offered if desired. 24/40 is way low


    Pedaling

  17. #17
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    Those chainrings dont look replaceable.

    I also dont like the knuckle design on the rear d. I like the upper cog to sit foward of the linkage, in order to give plenty of clearance on FSR/Horst link suspensions.

    Overall, its very "meh". Ill keep running my 9 speed stuff, and if I buy a new bike, and it has XX1 or XTR 11, then cool, I'll keep it.

    On another point of discussion, does anyone else have chainsuck issues on 10 speed stuff? It seems my 10 speed stuff has to be super clean to not chainsuck.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetoEscobar View Post
    I like the Di2 but the range of the cassette is to limited 11/40 compared to srams 10/42
    It is actually not a very big difference: compare the following gear ratios with 28 vs 30 chainring:

    1140 x 30 => 2.73 to .75 (XTR 2015?)
    1142 x 30 => 2.73 to .71 (aftermarket)
    1042 x 28 => 2.80 to .67 (SRAM $1000-1500)

    With a 1140 you loose at most three quarters of gear in respect to 1042. with 1142 you are almost identical. (Reason is that 11 to 10 is a very small gap, 1042 is actually a bit of silly idea).

    I would have preferred that Shimano came out with 1142 10 speed, but because I am migrating from 9 speed 1140 eleven speed will do just great. For people that do not mind a dual ring a 1140 cassette with, say, 26 and 40 chain ring offers a massive range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FastBanana View Post
    Those chainrings dont look replaceable.
    It's hard to tell, but I bet they're using a spiderless direct-mount design. I think Shimano knows better than to make a crankset without replaceable chainrings.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GilbyVT View Post
    It's hard to tell, but I bet they're using a spiderless direct-mount design. I think Shimano knows better than to make a crankset without replaceable chainrings.
    And you would think every manufacturer would make servicable cassettes, but they dont.

  21. #21
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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    The thread in my link has obviously been deleted...
    A similar thread was deleted on the weight weenies site as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FastBanana View Post
    And you would think every manufacturer would make servicable cassettes, but they dont.
    That's a different discussion, but I personally don't have a need for seviceable cassettes. By the time one cog reaches the end of its life, others will be close behind. I'd rather just replace the whole cassette, chain and maybe chainring(s) together. That being said, I don't use cassettes like the XTR with titanium cogs that tend to wear more quickly.

    I looked more closely at the literature that was posted and it says the Hollowtech II crank arm is "compatible with all of the new XTR chainrings." So, it looks like they will be replaceable.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    It is actually not a very big difference: compare the following gear ratios with 28 vs 30 chainring:

    1140 x 30 => 2.73 to .75 (XTR 2015?)
    1142 x 30 => 2.73 to .71 (aftermarket)
    1042 x 28 => 2.80 to .67 (SRAM $1000-1500)

    With a 1140 you loose at most three quarters of gear in respect to 1042. with 1142 you are almost identical. (Reason is that 11 to 10 is a very small gap, 1042 is actually a bit of silly idea).

    I would have preferred that Shimano came out with 1142 10 speed, but because I am migrating from 9 speed 1140 eleven speed will do just great. For people that do not mind a dual ring a 1140 cassette with, say, 26 and 40 chain ring offers a massive range.
    You are so consistently wrong on your XX1 pricing Davide - Nobody pays MSRP - Srams XX1 can frequently be picked up for $900 ish. Knock off the $hit about $1500.

    And yes, $900 is still expensive, but at least stay accurate. I know ya got it in ya.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    You are so consistently wrong on your XX1 pricing Davide - Nobody pays MSRP - Srams XX1 can frequently be picked up for $900 ish. Knock off the $hit about $1500.

    And yes, $900 is still expensive, but at least stay accurate. I know ya got it in ya.
    Maybe you can tray to say something interesting for a change? I put a range of $1000-1500, it all depends where/when you buy and if you need to buy an extra wheel. The low end of my range is actually $100 away from your claim so what's your point ...

    The post was about the new Shimano more than anything else, if the rumor is true I am a bit disappointed about the 11 speed which I think is useless, but happy about the 1140 that is a very nice set up and plenty range-wise, with a dual ring and Di2 it will be huge for the people that need it.

    But I also think that it is good to reiterate that $1000-$1500 spent on SRAM in 2014 gets you a system that has no advantage in respect to 1142, and has just a tiny bit more range in respect to 1140. Things have changed since last year when you only had 1136 as an alternative to 1042, and SRAM really looks like a silly waste of money.

  25. #25
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    is this really it? after all the rumours of something groundbreaking coming from shimano, something that would wipe out xx1, they are bringing out a 10-40 cassette.

    I'm a shimano person through and through, can't stand sram gear, but is this the best they could do? What a shame. They should have gone 10-43 to be competitive.

  26. #26
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    Why? If you havent noticed the cassette will run on a more standard cassete. The hubs say 10/11 speed compatible so im guessing its the newer 11speed freehub that is now very common for road bikes. And it looks like american classic has had a disc 11 speed hub out for a while

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Maybe you can tray to say something interesting for a change? I put a range of $1000-1500, it all depends where/when you buy and if you need to buy an extra wheel. The low end of my range is actually $100 away from your claim so what's your point ...

    The post was about the new Shimano more than anything else, if the rumor is true I am a bit disappointed about the 11 speed which I think is useless, but happy about the 1140 that is a very nice set up and plenty range-wise, with a dual ring and Di2 it will be huge for the people that need it.

    But I also think that it is good to reiterate that $1000-$1500 spent on SRAM in 2014 gets you a system that has no advantage in respect to 1142, and has just a tiny bit more range in respect to 1140. Things have changed since last year when you only had 1136 as an alternative to 1042, and SRAM really looks like a silly waste of money.
    So you are happy with the 11-40 but unhappy with the 10-42 but love the 11-42 hack even though you have seen no prices yet on the Shimano system and have no real time experience with the Sram or hack? Just making sure I got this right.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    So you are happy with the 11-40 but unhappy with the 10-42 but love the 11-42 hack even though you have seen no prices yet on the Shimano system and have no real time experience with the Sram or hack? Just making sure I got this right.
    Ok, obviously you are a little bit slow on the intake, so let me take you again step by step:

    1042 is nonsense. Yes, if you take the cog max/min ratios it is 420%, and that seems huge in respect to the 1142 378%. In reality that ratio means nothing, because you do not have continuously varying chain rings, but can only use 26, 28, 30, 32 etc. As a result 1142 x 30 gives you an almost identical range to 1042 x 28. The difference? 42 aftermarket is $90 while SRAM 1042 is ten times that amount at a minimum. Nonsense.

    I would prefer, on paper, if Shimano, or somebody else, come out with a nicely spaced 10 speed 1142, but for me is still just an extra: I have been using 1136 9 speed for the last two years

    BTW: 942 (Leonardi) is the only way to get a full extra gear in respect to an 11 minimum cog cassette.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Ok, obviously you are a little bit slow on the intake, so let me take you again step by step:

    1042 is nonsense. Yes, if you take the cog max/min ratios it is 420%, and that seems huge in respect to the 1142 378%. In reality that ratio means nothing, because you do not have continuously varying chain rings, but can only use 26, 28, 30, 32 etc. As a result 1142 x 30 gives you an almost identical range to 1042 x 28. The difference? 42 aftermarket is $90 while SRAM 1042 is ten times that amount at a minimum. Nonsense.

    I would prefer, on paper, if Shimano come out with 10 speed 1142, but again 40 looses very little and I can live with it: I have been using 1136 9 speed for the last two years

    BTW: if I really wanted a single mega range (but why?) I would get the the Leonardi 942: that is the only way to get a full extra gear in respect to a 11 minimum cog cassette.
    Personally I could give a rats a$$ what your paper says, answer my question have you actually had any real experience? Do you actually know how each system performs, there is more to it than gear ratios.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Personally I could give a rats a$$ what your paper says, answer my question have you actually had any real experience? Do you actually know how each system performs, there is more to it than gear ratios.
    Love this: "what your paper says". As if math was an opinion!

    There is nothing to know, it is just a drive train: we know that as we speak a 42 aftermarket has the limitation of having to take out a cog in the middle of the range. When I put together my 9 speed 1136 using a FRM aftermarket 36, I cannibalized two XT cassettes just to avoid a jump in the gears. And we know as well that any Shimano or SRAM cassette will be fine no matter what its range.

    Do you use 1042? Be happy, you own the fractionally highest range cassette on the market. It cost you a harm and a leg to have a fraction of an extra gear, but hei ... free country!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post


    I would prefer, on paper, if Shimano, or somebody else, come out with a nicely spaced 10 speed 1142, but for me is still just an extra: I have been using 1136 9 speed for the last two years

    I've been asking the folks I know at Shimano for this very thing. 10 speed cassette. I'd even be happy with 11-40.

    We'll see how it goes with the OneUp cog.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Love this: "what your paper says". As if simple math was an opinion!

    There is nothing to know, it is just a drive train: we know that as we speak a 42 aftermarket has the limitation of having to take out a cog in the middle of the range, we know that any Shimano or SRAM cassette will be fine.
    You must be a little slow on the intake, I am speaking of performance issues not gear ratios. The problem with the 42 hack has nothing to do with the 17t being removed, heck I've been running with the 17t out for about a year on my fat bike and shifting has been great. It's a problem with the shifting due to lack of chain wrap from the derailleur not being made for such a gear range. Try it then come back and preach, maybe you will have good luck and maybe you wont but at least you might gain some credibility.

    I've learned you can build cassettes in great ranges that yes on paper look as good as the xx1 system but without the proper made derailleur to go with it the system is lacking.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post

    Do you use 1042? Be happy, you own the fractionally highest range cassette on the market. It cost you a harm and a leg to have a fraction of an extra gear, but hei ... free country!
    I have both the XTR 10 speed and the X01, two different systems for two different bikes and both are excellent in their applications. I tried like hell to like the 42 hack but maybe I am just to picky.

    Peace.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    It's a problem with the shifting due to lack of chain wrap from the derailleur not being made for such a gear range. Try it then come back and preach, maybe you will have good luck and maybe you wont but at least you might gain some credibility.
    You are funny: "gain credibility"!

    We all know (we read the same forum, don't we?) that according to some the 42 might give some problems, and some of those reports point to a lack of chain wrap as the culprit. Some don't, and seem very happy. It does not really matter, even if that was a real problem wait six months and Shimano (and additional SRAM) derailleurs will come out fidgeted to have more uptake.

    Same for the cassette, the uneven spacing of the cassette when you use an aftermarket might not be a problem, but it is not the way you would design a cassette from ground zero. And once again a nicely spaced (or gap spaced for that matter) 1142 is indistinguishable from a 1042 at a tiny fraction of the cost.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    And once again a nicely spaced (or gap spaced for that matter) 1142 is indistinguishable from a 1042 at a tiny fraction of the cost.
    And this I agree on as long as shifting performance is equal as well as durability.

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    I for one would sure prefer a product with no compromise in terms of shifting performance with a small gear range disadvantage than a simple bodge job. The WTC and OneUP cogs are no doubt great if you can live with the potential setup and performance issues, I'd personally be happy to give up a little range for near flawless shift performance and not over-stress my kit by asking it to do something it isn't designed to do.

    A factory 10 speed 11-40 or 42t cassette is no doubt possible, but with current rear mechs not designed to cope with such systems, why not do what Shimano have done and go 11 speed? I agree that they could have taken the concept further, but my thinking is this XTR grouppo has been designed around various chainring combos and a cassette that works with all of them, hence the slight reduction in gear range. I honestly would not be surprised if Shimano pulled a dedicated "enduro" group out of the bag at Sea Otter, much like Saint and Zee for DH. Dedicated 1x and a wider range cassette, possibly priced between XT and XTR much like Saint it. Pure speculation of course, and if I'm wrong I'll happily put 2015 1x11 XTR on my next bike!

  37. #37
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    I like Shimano stuff, its my preference on all my bikes but SRAM have them beaten hands down here and I'm glad I have XX1 on my Bronson now and did not wait for new XTR.

  38. #38
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    what about wi-fi technology on Di2 ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    I like Shimano stuff, its my preference on all my bikes but SRAM have them beaten hands down here and I'm glad I have XX1 on my Bronson now and did not wait for new XTR.
    I really wanted to like XX1 but SRAM feels like something is breaking every time you shift it. It feels FAR less smooth than Shimano. I guess that's more of a priority to me than having an extra gear. Different strokes.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap View Post
    what about wi-fi technology on Di2 ?
    Its not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    I really wanted to like XX1 but SRAM feels like something is breaking every time you shift it. It feels FAR less smooth than Shimano. I guess that's more of a priority to me than having an extra gear. Different strokes.
    Has it ever broken though? Mine is smooth as silk and works faultlessly.

    Shimano shadow rear mechs leave a lot to be desired and are far from durable.

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    Call me a curmudgeon. Although, I firmly believe in 1 x technology the more I read of the latest / greatest
    the strong voice of Sheldon Brown rings true.

    6-speed, 7-speed, 8-speed, 9-speed, 10-speed, 11-speed?

    While the entire article is relevant, the first 2 paragraphs say it well.
    -----
    "Component manufacturers like to sell you lots of new parts, even if you don't need them. This has led to much confusion as various parts are labeled as if they are incompatible with other parts even though they are actually usable with little or no problem. Also, design often is churned by spec hype, and "keeping up with the Joneses," as in more sprockets, lighter weight, higher-priced components must be better. "Jones" is also a slang term for a drug addiction!

    In reality, the fancier parts aren't always the most suitable, in the same way that a Ferrari, while it is a great racecar, isn't at all as good for daily transportation as a Toyota -- there are practical issues of cost, reliability, serviceability and durability. With bicycle components, the performance gain with higher-end models is often minusucule. Remember, you account for 80 percent of the weight even if you are riding a rather heavy bicycle!"

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    If what we can see from the pictures is right I think shimano has done it pretty well. If it can fit on a standard hub that is $100 less than XX1 instantly, and xtr has always been cheaper than XX and in line with or a little cheaper than XO. I think the 11-40 is plenty big enough. With an 11-36 if an ride everything but it would be nice to have a lower gear, 4 more teeth is quite a bit lower gear and I don't spin out with a 32-11 so a 32 with a 40 out back should be pretty equal to a 34-42 where I wouldn't use the 10t on the xx1, I see no need for the 10 that just makes a new standard for a new driver. I think when shimano releases it they may have an 11-42 cassette for just 1x use as the pic sayed 2x11 and 3x11. I like the feel of shimano better so I will probably hold out for this. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on XX1, but this makes me want to wait. The Di2 has a lot of potential for the mtb world as well. We'll see how this turns out but I would probably order as soon as it comes out.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Maybe you can tray to say something interesting for a change? I put a range of $1000-1500, it all depends where/when you buy and if you need to buy an extra wheel. The low end of my range is actually $100 away from your claim so what's your point ...

    The post was about the new Shimano more than anything else, if the rumor is true I am a bit disappointed about the 11 speed which I think is useless, but happy about the 1140 that is a very nice set up and plenty range-wise, with a dual ring and Di2 it will be huge for the people that need it.

    But I also think that it is good to reiterate that $1000-$1500 spent on SRAM in 2014 gets you a system that has no advantage in respect to 1142, and has just a tiny bit more range in respect to 1140. Things have changed since last year when you only had 1136 as an alternative to 1042, and SRAM really looks like a silly waste of money.
    Seriously davide, you don't seem to understand the market at the upper end at all. You compare the pricing of xx1 with xtr and what those products deliver . The people buying this stuff are generally buying it for a new bike and are not comparing it to an slx pimped up groupo with aftermarket bits.

    When you are building up a $7000 bike, an extra $400 or $500 is nothing - in the same way you don't buy a $20 KNC stem for the bike or a $40 alloy bar. No one who shops for absolute value will be buying it, same as the value shopper doesnt buy a Maserati .

    For me XX1 was a big enough step to take me away from shimano, but my next build was an SLX one ( different bikes, different needs ). There is no doubt at all that xx1 is a really nice groupset ( with shimano brakes of course )

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    I am surprised at all this squabbling about the size of the cassette. The big news here is obviously the electronics. The cassette is slightly higher range, big whoop. SRAM's cassette still has fairly more range, but the absolute range of a cassette is probably a lot less noticeable than shifting performance.

    But the main reason that the size of the cassette doesn't matter is because of the Di2 front derailleur. Anyone who has used a Di2 system knows that the front derailleur/front shifting is the best of any system ever available. It is very quick, shifts in any conditions (the use of Di2 in CX has already shown this, and CX race bikes tend to get dirtier/muddier than most people's MTBs), and doesn't rub. Sure, it will still be a little bit louder than XX1 as the chain will still bang on the derailleur, but the polymer insert on the FD cage quiets this and so does the Shadow Plus. If you really want quiet, you still have to go singlespeed.

    1x is nice, and I like it (but I'm a singlespeeder), but the fact is that most people still like the big gear range and will be sticking with 2x or maybe even 3x. I don't know if the Di2 FD will support 3x, however. SRAM couldn't make a very good front derailleur, so they abandoned it and made the cassette bigger. Shimano *can*, and does make a very good front derailleur and crankset. People who will use XTR Di2 will forget about the hassle that front derailleurs usually are (because Di2 simply works) and come to appreciate the tighter spacing in back and the extremely quick and significant downshift you can get when you shift into the granny ring on a double. With Shimano, you can drop you gear by 150% with just the push of a button, but with SRAM, you have to mash the downshift lever and wait for the chain to come around to the top of the cassette before the ratio actually changes. A downshift on the front instantly starts to change ratio, even before the chain has reached the small chainring.


    And that omits the most important part of electronics: lack of maintenance. Charging the battery is easy and only needs to be done infrequently, and the indexing is so much more consistent over time. There are so many people with misadjusted mechanical drivetrains who are dealing with poor shifting because it is actually a fairly skilled task to tune a derailleur (especially the front), and they just aren't up to it. Di2 is set and forget unless it gets bashed, and it is still easier to adjust than a mechanical system.

    Nearly every mechanic I talk to loves Di2 because it makes our job a lot easier. I'm very excited about this groupset.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanik View Post
    I am surprised at all this squabbling about the size of the cassette. The big news here is obviously the electronics. The cassette is slightly higher range, big whoop. SRAM's cassette still has fairly more range, but the absolute range of a cassette is probably a lot less noticeable than shifting performance.

    Nearly every mechanic I talk to loves Di2 because it makes our job a lot easier. I'm very excited about this groupset.
    Very good points. A duo with 1140 and Di2 gives a stunning range with what looks like seamless front ring transitions. I am probably not going back to double but just using an electronic rear would actually be great, effortless shifting and custom settings, with instant "whole cassette" shifting. Homemade "preview" version: What can we expect from Shimano 2015?

  47. #47
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    SHIMANO XTR 2015 Di2

    Didn't look to see if that link was posted. Same information and pictures.

  48. #48
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    Di2 is great on road bikes. Hanging a £350-£400 off the back of a mountain bike that risks getting smashed off every single minute of every ride does not sound that sensible IMHO.

  49. #49
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    i have installed a Di2 trasmission on my 29er , using the 7970 group with customized shifters and internal battery.

    very happy after lots of months , almost an year.
    36-24 and rear 11-36

    this new XTR Di2 will be sure 3 steps beyond mine.

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    In my opinion, the only custom setting that would be worth anything is enabling other speeds, such as 8, 9, 10 speed etc. The multi-shift thing is really dumb, the delay is too long and there is no feedback to let to know how many times you have shifted. Its not a machine gun, you don't need to be able to just hold it down. Much better to just keep it on semi-auto. You can easily shift it faster on semi than you can on full.

    Obviously though, Shimano wouldn't enable other speed settings to be used even though the hardware is perfectly capable of indexing other speeds. Not that you really get an indexing reliability advantage with using less speeds like you do with mechanical, but the chains and cassettes are still cheaper.

    The main reason for electronics is reliability. They are rock solid.

  51. #51
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    Re: New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    These shimano shifters like the fox/shimano remote lockout lever...



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    Very interested to hear pricing on this group, especially after all the XX1 price bashing. Anyone hear any rumblings on price?
    [

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonaSS View Post
    Very interested to hear pricing on this group, especially after all the XX1 price bashing. Anyone hear any rumblings on price?
    You better be sitting down. It will be at least as much for the mechanical group. The di2 rear derailure alone will be $700-850

    It WILL require a new hub. Its the same as the road 11 speed hub/cassette

  54. #54
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    Di2 stuff is mad spendy. Won't be any cheaper than XX1.

    I'd bet Di2 Dura Ace would be a good starting point for price.

  55. #55
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    I wouldn´t care if it is spendy.
    If it delivers the features of the X01 (11-40 would be plenty for me) - but with better durability I´ll buy it.

    I really love my X01 - (in theory) - and wouln´t go back to a 2x system, but durability and longevity of the cassette and rear derailleur on the X01 is bad.

    I´ve been riding my X01 drivetrain since november. Granted - muddy winter conditions. But no salt etc.
    And it shows sings of wear already and even the rear derailleur had to be sent in for warranty once already.

    It shifts a lot worse in the higher (smaller cogs) gears and the black finish is starting to wear off on some cogs.

    Shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

    But at the same time I am spoiled. I wouldn´t want to ride a noisy clutchless derailleur anymore.
    No chain rattle is VERY addictive!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Znarf View Post
    I wouldn´t care if it is spendy.
    If it delivers the features of the X01 (11-40 would be plenty for me) - but with better durability I´ll buy it.

    I really love my X01 - (in theory) - and wouln´t go back to a 2x system, but durability and longevity of the cassette and rear derailleur on the X01 is bad.

    I´ve been riding my X01 drivetrain since november. Granted - muddy winter conditions. But no salt etc.
    And it shows sings of wear already and even the rear derailleur had to be sent in for warranty once already.

    It shifts a lot worse in the higher (smaller cogs) gears and the black finish is starting to wear off on some cogs.

    Shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

    But at the same time I am spoiled. I wouldn´t want to ride a noisy clutchless derailleur anymore.
    No chain rattle is VERY addictive!
    I can't get over how nasty SRAM shifts compared to Shimano. I test rode several X01/XX1 bikes and the shifting was nowhere near as clean and crisp. And less than $450 for EVERYTHING.

    XT crank - $140
    XTR shifter - $90
    RaceFace n/w - $50
    XT Shadow+ RD - $60
    XT cassette - $60
    XT chain - $40

  57. #57
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    local shop has been getting a lot of us to convert over, I so far have stayed with my 2x10 XT. Guy I ride with went from his SRAM 2x10 to the XX1 1x11. On Sunday with only 2 other rides on the new setup he thrashed the big ring on the XX1 cassette.

    He was in the big ring, climbing up a decent climb. Next thing we heard a loud crack and rear wheel bound up. Chain was wedged between spokes and cassette. Cassette was bent in towards the next ring for a span of about 5 teeth (basically from one support web to the next).

    LBS is getting SRAM to warranty the cassette, but still at a loss for words as to why it failed.

    Think I will stick with my XT 2x10 for now

  58. #58
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    if the chain was on the large cog when it failed, i see no way for it to jump over into the spokes. i would venture a guess that when the cog broke, the chain was already wedged in the spokes. i think the lesson here is, makes no sense to spend $1000 on a groupset if you have a worthless mechanic who can't set Hi/Lo limits properly.

  59. #59
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    Re: New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    if the chain was on the large cog when it failed, i see no way for it to jump over into the spokes. i would venture a guess that when the cog broke, the chain was already wedged in the spokes. i think the lesson here is, makes no sense to spend $1000 on a groupset if you have a worthless mechanic who can't set Hi/Lo limits properly.
    Sram cassettes are known to have cogs bend inward. It can bend, and continue spinnin around, next rotation the chain is getting jammed in the wheel. Not a mechanic's fault for sure.

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  60. #60
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    yeah the limits were fine, bike had about 50 miles on the setup without issues. I think like said, when the big ring broke between the support webs and bent in towards the next ring on the next pass the bent teeth acted like a ramp and directed the chain in towards the spokes.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    Picture speak for themselves.
    Sexy, but SRAM is sexier... lol

  62. #62
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    Cool, so XTR in 2015 which means SLX in 2017?

    Pssst, Shimano, there's money to be made in a legit system that is cheaper than X01 right now. Oh, nevermind I forgot about that whole tradition of slowly working your new product down the line.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpcaser View Post
    Cool, so XTR in 2015 which means SLX in 2017?

    Pssst, Shimano, there's money to be made in a legit system that is cheaper than X01 right now. Oh, nevermind I forgot about that whole tradition of slowly working your new product down the line.
    R&D costs money, I'm sure they're doing what makes sense for them. Can't just snap your fingers and have a new system that works well.

    Kind of surprised they've had it (11spd) out for road for a bit but no MTB...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Kind of surprised they've had it (11spd) out for road for a bit but no MTB...
    Why? There's absolutely no competition out there. There's SRAM and there's Shimano; aka Comcast and TWC.

    Hadn't Shimano usually released XT first to test the waters? Now they're going straight out with XTR to make the most money because they know they can. It can fail miserably, they'll still make money and you'll still buy the next version.

    And damnit, I want this drivetrain.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcom View Post
    Why? There's absolutely no competition out there. There's SRAM and there's Shimano; aka Comcast and TWC.

    Hadn't Shimano usually released XT first to test the waters? Now they're going straight out with XTR to make the most money because they know they can. It can fail miserably, they'll still make money and you'll still buy the next version.

    And damnit, I want this drivetrain.
    I'm surprised because they're letting SRAM win when people want high end, wide range, 11 spd, etc mountain systems.

    Personally I'd rather 11-36 Shimano than any SRAM combo regardless of price but many others are stuck with X01 or XX1

  66. #66
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    I can't get over how heinous those cranks look.
    Death from Below.

  67. #67
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    I'm going the poor mans route... race face 30T narrow/wide and a 42T from oneup. Installing tomorrow.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    I'm going the poor mans route... race face 30T narrow/wide and a 42T from oneup. Installing tomorrow.
    I just put this on my son's bike. I'll test it tomorrow.

    The 30tooth front is perfect. The 42t on the back is clunky.

    fc
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    I can't get over how nasty SRAM shifts compared to Shimano. I test rode several X01/XX1 bikes and the shifting was nowhere near as clean and crisp. And less than $450 for EVERYTHING.

    XT crank - $140
    XTR shifter - $90
    RaceFace n/w - $50
    XT Shadow+ RD - $60
    XT cassette - $60
    XT chain - $40

    Funny, because everything SRAM I've ridden has the most positive shifting of any groupset, road or mtb. SRAM stuff really pops into gear with a snap, crisply and affirmatively...you know that it shifted. If that's what you mean by nasty...I'll take nasty all day. I hate the vague feeling shimano stuff has comparitively.
    "...when I stand to climb I'm like the Hulk rowing the USS Badass up the Kickass River."
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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamrockandroll13 View Post
    Funny, because everything SRAM I've ridden has the most positive shifting of any groupset, road or mtb. SRAM stuff really pops into gear with a snap, crisply and affirmatively...you know that it shifted. If that's what you mean by nasty...I'll take nasty all day. I hate the vague feeling shimano stuff has comparitively.
    Is rather have the quiet. Would make sense to be able to hear things in other components but you should be able to feel the difference in gearing once you've shifted. It's not like you need to hear your brakes to know they're working, you can feel the difference in speed.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I just put this on my son's bike. I'll test it tomorrow.

    The 30tooth front is perfect. The 42t on the back is clunky.

    fc
    Yup, and this is why I think the hack 42T is for the true Single ring rider who runs a bigger front chainring and could use the extra gear out back and is willing to deal with the compromise and doesn't want to pay the $$$XX1. NOT for the guy who is running a 2x10 and thinks they can get XX1 performance and lose the weight without paying the price.

    For now I'm willing to have the clunky shifting to get that better cadence on the steeper climbs. Definitely clunky tho...

    And yeah, those cranks are fugly as hell. Best shimano cranks ever made M970 XTR cranks.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    I can't get over how nasty SRAM shifts compared to Shimano.
    I'll echo the call for something fishy too - maybe a deliberate use of a badly adjusted SRAM to keep him feeling good about his Shimano. I had 3-ride old XT (without the clutch derailleur) on 1 bike, and then swapped to my other bike (which was freshly cabled) with a 2 year old XX shifter and 3 year old XO rear derailleur. No question, the SRAM shifter better.
    Rimmer - "There's an old human saying - if you talk garbage, expect pain"

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Yup, and this is why I think the hack 42T is for the true Single ring rider who runs a bigger front chainring and could use the extra gear out back and is willing to deal with the compromise and doesn't want to pay the $$$XX1. NOT for the guy who is running a 2x10 and thinks they can get XX1 performance and lose the weight without paying the price

    For now I'm willing to have the clunky shifting to get that better cadence on the steeper climbs. Definitely clunky tho...

    And yeah, those cranks are fugly as hell. Best shimano cranks ever made M970 XTR cranks.
    I'll post my results after the install tomorrow.

    I'm ok with a little clunky because I don't use my current 24 x 36 very often... But I need that ratio for 3 climbs that I can't do in the 30 x 36 combo.

  74. #74
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    Perfect!! Now the 10 speed will go cheap as dirt! I run a 1x10 (30-11/36) and have the legs to spin it so no 11/40 needed. Can't be happier.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    I'm going the poor mans route... race face 30T narrow/wide and a 42T from oneup. Installing tomorrow.
    Amen!! I could care less about , 11speed. With all the. After market products a new groupset falls flat.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Amen!! I could care less about , 11speed. With all the. After market products a new groupset falls flat.
    konahonzo

  77. #77
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    Thanks euro, it bugs me when others say it amd i just got busted myself.


    The introduction of another 11 speed component group has not piqued my interest. With so many third-party add-ons, the news of shimanos latest drive train has me rolling my eyes.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Amen!! I could care less about , 11speed. With all the. After market products a new groupset falls flat.
    Maybe I could give you a hand with your punctuation.

    In all seriousness, 1x isn't new, but making a system which works as a cohesive unit without need for a chainguide (so you can change ring sizes easily) is what is being seen here (mainly with SRAM, the shimano seems like an afterthought designed to try and keep up).
    I keep saying this, but these are race gruppos. If you just want to put something together to puddle around the trails on a weekend ride with your mates, then there's no need to have the most range, or the lightest weight. The odd chain drop, or time/effort spent in getting it fine-tuned is nothing either. For racers though, you need to have it work flawlessly with no extra fine tuning right out of the box.
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  79. #79
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    Uhh ohhh alex randel is here to give everyone race tips.

    I would be interested to know why you would characterize the shimano groupset ast an "afterthought" .

    I think the biggest change to come out of the 1x paradigm is short chainstays on bikes with no front derailure mounts.

    The electronic shifting turns me off.

    What needs to happen next is the manufacturing of internally geard hubs with a material other then cheese.

  80. #80
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    Mainly as they seek only to make something with 11 speed to my way of thought. There is no innovation in the way they have done the 11, it seems to be just an adaption of their 10sp gruppo to 1 extra gear. The electronic conversion to the mtb range will be interesting in how it goes.
    Rimmer - "There's an old human saying - if you talk garbage, expect pain"

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawman1991 View Post
    I for one would sure prefer a product with no compromise in terms of shifting performance with a small gear range disadvantage than a simple bodge job. !
    Makes me wonder if SRAM will bring back Hammerschmidt to pair with 1x11 for a no compromise mega wide gearing setup.

  82. #82
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    I find the front chainring on the 1X crank interesting. The scanned photos aren't good enough to show if the teeth have a narrow wide width, but they are good enough to show that the teeth do not have the taller tooth profile that are on every other narrow wide 1X chainring out there.

  83. #83
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    Yes, SRAM came up with the narrow/wide technology. There are rumblings that they will be patenting this too.
    If they don't have the same tall profile, I guess its because they didn't need the height to ensure that the chain stays on. Looking at the website seems to indicate there's plenty of height though.
    Rimmer - "There's an old human saying - if you talk garbage, expect pain"

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRandall View Post
    Yes, SRAM came up with the narrow/wide technology. There are rumblings that they will be patenting this too.
    If they don't have the same tall profile, I guess its because they didn't need the height to ensure that the chain stays on. Looking at the website seems to indicate there's plenty of height though.
    No they didn't "come up with it", narrow wide gears have been used for a long time for all sorts of applications. SRAM might run into some problems trying to patent the idea Patent US4174642 - Chain drive including sprocket having alternate wide and narrow teeth - Google Patents

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    Not impressed, I think Shimano is totally missing the boat on this. Most here don't want yet another drivetrain standard, 10 speeds are more than enough.

    A 10s 11-40 or 11-42 cassette with slightly revised gear ratios and a RD designed to handle that range is all most want. Make it compatible with existing 10 speed shifters and Shimano could sell these as fast as they could make them.

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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    The only reason people want the wide range 10s is for the alternative to XX1 because it is so expensive. Right now I think Shimano wants to create the XX1 competitor for the high end of the market. The wide range 10s is easily possible right now so why make that now.

    For shimano or SRAM all a wide range 10s takes is a new cassette with better ratios as they're derailleur already handle it

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-r View Post
    Not impressed, I think Shimano is totally missing the boat on this. Most here don't want yet another drivetrain standard, 10 speeds are more than enough.
    They said the exact same thing when freewheels (followed by cassettes) went from 5 to 6 , 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9 and 9 to 10.

    Yet, here we are.
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    I feel like the weakness of the 1x system is in having to click so much to throw the chain across the full range. It'd be awesome if they had a pressure sensitive shifter.

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    New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    I feel like the weakness of the 1x system is in having to click so much to throw the chain across the full range. It'd be awesome if they had a pressure sensitive shifter.
    Clicking a few times is just as fast if not faster than a shift in the front, and the new shimano shifters are awesome with 2 up and 4 down in one throw if the lever.

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    I've actually got 2012 xtr shifter and shadow plus set up as 1x10, currently. The 2 up is awesome, but what I'm saying is that electronic shifters would open the possibility of grabbing as many gears as you want at once. I do my riding in Sedona in the winter, and this would be a huge asset to throw it down 6 gears at a time for those trails where you're constantly in and out of washes.

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    Converted to 1x10 with the RaceFace narrow/wide 30T and the OneUp 42T today. Shifting cleanly. For those complaining did you read the instructions for the B screw adjustment for Shimano derailuers (removal of plastic piece)? It was a little rough before we made the fix.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11-image.jpg  

    Last edited by LB412; 02-24-2014 at 10:02 PM.

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    Step 29: Pick a drivetrain...now be a dick about it.

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    Lol. What happens when you bust off that 700.00 di2 deraillure on a rock?

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    I'm still trying to understand how electronic shifting "improves" things. My 105 equipped roadie could use some improved shifting, but that's only after getting caught in the rain once. It'll soon have full length housings and solve that issue.

    My MTB? Assuming the hanger is straight? I press the lever, it goes click, it shifts. Every. Damn. Time. I can click off gears faster than the chain can follow, so there's no room for improvement there. Meh.

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    I would never want Di2 on my MTB, sure it works great for the road but on the road it doesn't have to worry about jarring around and dirt and grime getting into those sensitive servo motors. It is bad enough when you have to replace a XT, XTR, XO, XX RD, much worse when it is an electronic RD.

    I am on the fence, I liked the shifter on the SRAM stuff better than the Shimano XT I have now, so I am waiting to see what Shimano comes out with and how much it will cost. Historically from what I have seen Shimano's stuff will be solid, it will be slightly cheaper than SRAM but will weigh in a little more than SRAM.

    Pro's and Cons to both systems from what I can see.
    My Giant's - 2014 Propel Adv Di2 - 2014 TCR Adv SL4 - 2014 Anthem Adv 27.5 - 2014 XtC Adv 27.5 - 2014 TCX Adv Pro

  96. #96
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    As Di2 works for mud-festivals aka CX better then cable shifters. I think it will handle the mtb shifting just fine.

    The thing Shimano is missing is the wide range cassette. 10-42 is one up in every direction.

  97. #97
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    The real advantage of Di2 is the front shifting. That's why the road version is so universally lauded. It auto trims, never drops, and shifts perfectly and smoothly every time. The rear shifting is pretty much not that big of a deal. For mountain biking I can't see Di2 really being that great unless you run a 2x set up.
    "...when I stand to climb I'm like the Hulk rowing the USS Badass up the Kickass River."
    -michaelscott

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamrockandroll13 View Post
    The real advantage of Di2 is the front shifting.
    Gotcha. Well, unless Di2 can magically create front derailleur tire clearance, prevent chain drops as well as a narrow/wide ring, and not monkey with with my frame's anti-squat, I'm out.

  99. #99
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    Does SRAM have a copyright to the XD driver? Or is there another reason they just didn't go 10T? I would prefer to have a 10-42T just like SRAM but made in Japan by Shimano.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi View Post
    Makes me wonder if SRAM will bring back Hammerschmidt to pair with 1x11 for a no compromise mega wide gearing setup.
    If they did I'd take a hard look at it for sure, kinda wish Shimano could figure out how to stuff 2 or three speed hub guts inside a PF30 shell.

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