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  1. #1
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    Issues with 2X10 chain drop?

    Trying to figure something out.

    I've got the full X9 drivetrain. I have severe issues with chain drop. All the limits are set up correctly.

    It seems as if the P-tension spring (cage spring) isn't strong enough. I can drop the rear end of the bike on the ground and the chain comes off the front ring no matter where the chain is on the cassette.

    Obviously I'm dropping the chain to the inside and the outside on rough trails.

    The chain is as short as it can get.

    I've spoke with one other person who has a similar problem, but he is the only one I know personally with a decent amount of time on SRAM 2X10.

    Am I alone here?

    What am I missing?
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  2. #2
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    That doesn't sound right at all. Did you buy the parts from a shop? New bike? If so, take it to the shop and see what they say.
    Maintain internal heights.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nixgame22
    That doesn't sound right at all. Did you buy the parts from a shop? New bike? If so, take it to the shop and see what they say.

    New bike, I built it, and I've built a lot of bikes. The set-up is on.

    My friend has affirmed the same situation after a year on XX.
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  4. #4
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    ? Chain a bit long
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRandall
    ? Chain a bit long

    Nope, it's as short as it can be.
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  6. #6
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    I have the same issue with my x9 set up. Im a bike mechanic and cannot get it to stop doing it. Im going to cut my loss and go back to a 1x10 with a mrp chain guide set up.

  7. #7
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    So, it is the derailer that is the culprit? I have been using Sram 9spd for years. I am in the process of switching to X9 10spd. Maybe I will give Shimano a look with a Sram 2x crank.

  8. #8
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    I am starting to think it is the spring in the rear D. Ive noticed that over the past two months the shifting has become less and less solid. As in you don't feel a definite upshift like you expect from SRAM.

  9. #9
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    Our XCG will stop the chain from dropping inboard, but at this time we don't have any proper, tensioned chain guides for 2x10 (referring to bashless double cranks). It also provides bash protection.
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  10. #10
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    Sounds like a chain tension issue to me. If it is bouncing off just from being dropped, then it seems the rear derailleur is not providing enough tension. Has Sram lowered the spring tension on its 10 speed rear derailleurs to help improve front shifting (I don't know if that would help it, just thinking out loud)?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    Our XCG will stop the chain from dropping inboard, but at this time we don't have any proper, tensioned chain guides for 2x10 (referring to bashless double cranks). It also provides bash protection.
    Does it help with outside drops?

    I'm getting both inside and outside....

    and it's awesome.

    Not.

    I thought about the top mount MRP guides, but that would still allow the chain to pop off the bottom and beat the frame to death.
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  12. #12
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    Also...

    Unfortunately one of the drops early on ripped the pin off the big ring making it impossible to pedal the chain back in place.
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  13. #13
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    Can you unwind the cage and alter the spring location/tension as you can on the 9 spd derailleurs? Might be an option.
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  14. #14
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    Spoke with the SRAM rep today. He said he was starting to see issues with the 10spd stuff. He also said that SRAM would warranty the derailluer if it was indeed the spring tension problem.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmoset
    Can you unwind the cage and alter the spring location/tension as you can on the 9 spd derailleurs? Might be an option.

    Funny you mention it.

    I remember years ago I read in an issue of MBAction (over a decade ago) that they had a suggestion to do that to a Shimano mech (either XT or XTR).

    I did it then...

    I wonder if the X9 has two separate spring holes???

    I'll need to look at that.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoohoo
    Spoke with the SRAM rep today. He said he was starting to see issues with the 10spd stuff. He also said that SRAM would warranty the derailluer if it was indeed the spring tension problem.
    Warranty?

    Sounds interesting.

    Wonder if they would warranty it after I pull it apart and look...
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  17. #17
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    It would be helpful to see that in action, but I guess that a tensioner such as blackspire stinger or bashguard would solve the problem.

    It is sort of normal and may show up with an evil combination of chainstay length, chainring sizes and chainline.

    Are you dropping chains on the bottom or at the top? Does it happen when backpedalling - especially on extreme combos ( such as big-big, big-small )?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator
    It would be helpful to see that in action, but I guess that a tensioner such as blackspire stinger or bashguard would solve the problem.

    It is sort of normal and may show up with an evil combination of chainstay length, chainring sizes and chainline.

    Are you dropping chains on the bottom or at the top? Does it happen when backpedalling - especially on extreme combos ( such as big-big, big-small )?

    I don't think the Stinger will fit. There's a pivot down there that would make things tight or impossible. That was my first thought.

    It drops from the bottom while going over rough terrain while pedaling or coasting.

    It will drop from any combo on the big ring.
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  19. #19
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    I've been having a similar issue with my 2x10 setup. x9 shifters, x0 rear derailleur. Chain tension just seems like it can't be adjusted correctly.

    I don't know if it is a derailleur issue or what???
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahiwa
    I've been having a similar issue with my 2x10 setup. x9 shifters, x0 rear derailleur. Chain tension just seems like it can't be adjusted correctly.

    I don't know if it is a derailleur issue or what???

    I'm going to be looking inside soon to see if there is a higher tension setting.
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  21. #21
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    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.
    How does the spring on the new derailer feel?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    How does the spring on the new derailer feel?

    I won't have the warranty derailleur for awhile.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I won't have the warranty derailleur for awhile.
    Is Sram claiming it is a weak spring? You have me worried. I am picking up my X9 setup today.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    Is Sram claiming it is a weak spring? You have me worried. I am picking up my X9 setup today.

    I was told this could be my problem.

    I asked if this was common.

    The answer was "no."
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  26. #26
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    And by the way...

    A round of applause for SRAM. A big company that has a live human being picking up the phone and answering questions.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I was told this could be my problem.

    I asked if this was common.

    The answer was "no."
    Judging from Yoohoo's above account and yours, it sounds like SRAM is very aware of there being a weak spring issue with some of their rear derailleurs. And judging from the responses to this thread, it doesn't seem to be uncommon.

    But definitely kudos to SRAM for quickly addressing the issue.

  28. #28
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    If you bought from a shop they should give you another one and deal with SRAM. The customer should not be put out. If you bought online....you are on your own. Mine being a employee purchase will take longer since I can't just grab one off the shelf. I think Im going to sell my SRAM build when the new D gets here and give the Dyna Sys a try. In the mean time I went back to a 1x10 with a MRP chain guide and my old XT crank.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoohoo
    If you bought from a shop they should give you another one and deal with SRAM. The customer should not be put out. If you bought online....you are on your own. Mine being a employee purchase will take longer since I can't just grab one off the shelf. I think Im going to sell my SRAM build when the new D gets here and give the Dyna Sys a try. In the mean time I went back to a 1x10 with a MRP chain guide and my old XT crank.

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  30. #30
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    Ditch that FD and go 1x10. I'd go crazy if I went from SS to 2x10. FD's are the work of the devil.

    Then you could use that E13 XCX-ST with its fancy eccentric mount and eliminate drops to the inside & outside.

    Need some light reading? Check out my thread on 1x9, currently at 24 pages.
    Show pics of your 1x9 setup. Lotsa smart people in there.

  31. #31
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    First off, what percentage of your componentry is anodized purple? If it is less than 45.83% I would start there and add or subtract parts until the problem stops.

    Should the problem continue to persist, I would drill no less than 5 'speed' holes at 45 degree angles canted in towards the chainrings, in and around your BB/downtube area (you can do this with the BB installed). The force of the wind being accelerated through the holes should keep the chain from falling to the inside.
    To keep the chain from falling to the outside you'll need to do the following: Rent a copy (assuming you don't already own one) of Corvette Summer. When you're done crying after watching it again for the first time, go back and rewatch it and study the air ram stuff hanging off the side, hood and the feathered man mullet worn by Luke Skywalker. None of this has anything to do with the fix but you should consider doing something similar to your car/min-van/self.

    Anyhoo.... Take an old rear plastic fender and place it against the driveside chainstay allowing it to protrude and rest against the chain at the mid point of the circumference of the largest chainring. Take your drill and while holding the fender in place drill two holes through the plastic and chainstay and secure in place with a couple of old Thompson stem face place bolts.

    You'll hear some clicking as the crankarm/pedal/your ankle and/or shoe strikes the fender but that noise will go away once it breaks and falls off.

    Cheers


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    I think if you switch to one chainring on the front and one cog in the rear, your problem would be resolved.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    First off, what percentage of your componentry is anodized purple? If it is less than 45.83% I would start there and add or subtract parts until the problem stops.

    Should the problem continue to persist, I would drill no less than 5 'speed' holes at 45 degree angles canted in towards the chainrings, in and around your BB/downtube area (you can do this with the BB installed). The force of the wind being accelerated through the holes should keep the chain from falling to the inside.
    To keep the chain from falling to the outside you'll need to do the following: Rent a copy (assuming you don't already own one) of Corvette Summer. When you're done crying after watching it again for the first time, go back and rewatch it and study the air ram stuff hanging off the side, hood and the feathered man mullet worn by Luke Skywalker. None of this has anything to do with the fix but you should consider doing something similar to your car/min-van/self.

    Anyhoo.... Take an old rear plastic fender and place it against the driveside chainstay allowing it to protrude and rest against the chain at the mid point of the circumference of the largest chainring. Take your drill and while holding the fender in place drill two holes through the plastic and chainstay and secure in place with a couple of old Thompson stem face place bolts.

    You'll hear some clicking as the crankarm/pedal/your ankle and/or shoe strikes the fender but that noise will go away once it breaks and falls off.

    Cheers



    After 10 years in a shop this is the best damn answer for any bike related problem I have ever heard!!!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.

    I'm having the problem you describe with XX, medium cage. I would like to try and add some tension by relocating the spring stop, not impressed by SRAM's "no" just not good enough for me. Is it possible to do that spring trick you mention without destroying the rd? Also I'd add that the XO fd has rather strong spring in it and when you release it with the trigger (I'd prefer gripshifters) it about launches the cage through the seat tube imparting some serious kinetic energy into the chain. I think that's part of the problem in my case.
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  35. #35
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    I was just at the SRAM 2x10 experience yesterday. Test rode a well used XX drivetrain and it had absolutely no issues, but granted it was on a FS bike. It was much smoother and quieter and was more "shift-on-command" (instantaneous) than my 2011 X.0 equipped bike. My XO setup makes me wish for Shimano, but XX just seems almost perfect. Levers seemed to be very light to the touch too.

    I also have major chain drop and the chain is as short as I can make it (big ring, big cog, bypass RD, add 2 links). Since I also have front shifting issues, with limit screws and cable tuned, I thought it might be my FSA 386 crank. I accepted chain drop on rough stuff as a hardtail issue, but this thread makes me suspicious. I do notice my chain rattling around a lot, making noise without even hitting the chainstay. I even had the chain come off on the road a couple times. Fairly consistently doing something simple as dropping off a curb too. It drops onto both the crank and BB and it is very hard to pedal it back on--the lower part of the chain jams between the chainring and chainstay.

    The SRAM guys seemed to be uninterested in going out of their way to help me, since it was a big turn-out. I made it known that the XX shifts tons better than XO and they just said it has higher quality materials going into it as they were eyeing my bike. They emphasized their ratios up front saying for every 2 teeth in small, there's 3 in big and that they line up in a way that gives them perfect locations for ramps and such, so they basically tried to sell me on their crank, which I was thinking about buying anyways. One of the other riders there said that it was simply because it was a hardtail that I had issues with chain drop--no SRAM tech said that shouldn't happen.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 12-13-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    Mail order, but they're my sponsor (Bike 29), so they're handling it.

    I wIsh I was sponsored.

    Seriously you OP'ed this beatch and now that's all you got? And you complaining about it on your blog...Legit complaints but still.
    Last edited by YB1; 12-13-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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  37. #37
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    Dicky, I have been having the same exact problem as you...running the same setup..and soon enough, the same frame aswell. I have tried to taking out links and it didn't solve the problem (much). I am running the 1091R chain..but I don't think that is the culprit.

    When I was installing my friend's R/D (same setup as mine) the spring came undone on the Rear Derailleur so I had to set it back into place which was pretty tricky. There is only 2 holes on the inside, and only one 1 is the correct one. I don't think it would be possible to slide the cage around the stop and keep the spring from slipping when you try to add tension and then tighten the allen bolt.. So to relieve you from attempting to open it up (if you haven't already)..I guess what I'm saying is...learn from my mistakes :P

    I would really like to know if there is a higher tension spring out there that is available. I would even go for steel or titanium if it were offered.

    I really would like to know what the fix for this is..I drop my chain at an average of 2 times every 6 miles depending on how technical and bumpy it is. I don't want to resort to a chainguide as that kind of defeats the purpose of an actual "fix" which I would rather have.


    Varaxis,

    Something doesn't seem right...and more so the unenthusiastic experience you had with SRAM Reps. Granted I have only dealt with them on one occasion to get a replacement part, but it wasn't a bad one.

    I think this is an issue we may need to voice for a recall on the spring or something to develop more chain tension. I am not even sure if chain tension throught the rear derailleur is the answer, but it does seem to be the culprit.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver
    Dicky, I have been having the same exact problem as you...

    I think we are doomed.
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  39. #39
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    I think we should have faith, but be proactive about it. SRAM has really upped things in the corporation for all of their component brands Rockshox, Truvativ etc.

    I think the logical thing is really press for them to investigate what is causing the problem. I had absolutely no problems with past X9 or X0 components prior to 2x10. I don't think its 2x10 that has anything to do with it, but something in the components themselves. I do think that this can be narrowed down the rear derailleur, but I am no expert......

    I just hate the idea of sitting on my hands when my bike is not mechanically sound....I hate strangers! :P
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  40. #40
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    I should've checked out the chain tension on the RDs on the bikes at the SRAM 2x10 event. Mine does feel like it's just barely taking up the slack. Granted, less tension is less wear and probably a quieter smoother drivetrain, but losing the chain after coming through some bumps and wanting to get speed back up just kills the flow of the ride.

    Gonna try and go 1x10 with a chain keeper in the meanwhile. Too bad my FSA Afterburner 386 cranks have an extremely limited selection of rings (3 bolt 86 BCD).

  41. #41
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    Gripshift will fix this problem, or electro-mech. Then the chain can be fed up or down on the chainrings...
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Gripshift will fix this problem, or electro-mech. Then the chain can be fed up or down on the chainrings...
    SRAM does not make a 10 speed Gripshift. I am curious how you came to the conclusion that a Gripshift will fix this problem, when it doesn't exist. So I am curious how you diagnosed the problem/fix..... Pretty sure you are thinking 9 Speed when the topic clearly states "2x10."

    Back to being on subject of 2x10 chain drop, I recently upgraded from the X-9 R/D to the X-O, and that has virtually cleared the problem of chain drops. I cannot pinpoint it as it being the problem because I also switched to a SRAM S-2200 (X-O) crankset with a bash at the same time. With the chain direction always coming directly off of the cassette to the crank, and having the chain consistently drop off from the top of the chainring...I am lead to believe it is maybe the tooth profile or something different about the chainrings on the X-9 crankset.

    I cannot verify this because I replaced two possible part that causes the problem, and it has since vanished which is the desired result anyways...The aftermarket available XX rings may be a less expensive upgrade that cures the problem..but I am only speculating.
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  43. #43
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    lol u got trolled

    o wait... (looks at the guy's other posts).

  44. #44
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    Thanks for posting this. I was convinced I forgot how to setup a bike.

    I'm having the same experience with a Sram X9 10sp mid cage RD on an all SRAM drivetrain. Pick the rear wheel off the ground from 1ft up and drop it. It'll come off the front ring about 50% of the time.

    A call to the reseller and SRAM has a new mech in the mail to me with return shipping. I asked for them to include a new quick link because I'll have to cut the chain. We'll see if that happens.
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  45. #45
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    That's the same test I asked someone else on these forums who got the same bike as me to do, to test if it were just my bike. He told me couldn't do the test because his bike was missing some parts, I think.

    Doing that test, mine doesn't drop that frequently, unless I raise it higher than 1 ft.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappyMedium
    Thanks for posting this. I was convinced I forgot how to setup a bike.

    I'm having the same experience with a Sram X9 10sp mid cage RD on an all SRAM drivetrain. Pick the rear wheel off the ground from 1ft up and drop it. It'll come off the front ring about 50% of the time.

    A call to the reseller and SRAM has a new mech in the mail to me with return shipping. I asked for them to include a new quick link because I'll have to cut the chain. We'll see if that happens.

    I know you're not supposed to reuse the SRAM 10spd quicklinks, but you can open them with channel locks. I wish I could find the link where someone took a picture of how you grab the link with the tool, but you basically get the channel locks to push on the plates at an angle.

    There's also another method used in this video:

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/02/03/...-install-hack/
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  47. #47
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    Thanks Dicky, you earned your 50¢ on this thread. I still hope SRAM does the right thing and sends me another one.
    My bicycle gets more dirt than your 4x4.

  48. #48
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    I have had my 10 speed link off countless times. This works like a charm.
    Master Link Pliers

    I was dropping my chain, this fixed it.
    SRAM Cage Spring Tension Adjustment

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobus
    Meh, the 10 spd X9 has no such adjustment.
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  50. #50
    YB1
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    This isn't the only thread on this topic. Here's one from Cannondale land. It seems that there IS an issue if there's this many posts about it. Viva la revolution, as far as 2X10 goes but somethng ain't right, right?


    Flash Carbon 29er 2 Front shifting issues
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

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