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  1. #1
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    Issues with 2X10 chain drop?

    Trying to figure something out.

    I've got the full X9 drivetrain. I have severe issues with chain drop. All the limits are set up correctly.

    It seems as if the P-tension spring (cage spring) isn't strong enough. I can drop the rear end of the bike on the ground and the chain comes off the front ring no matter where the chain is on the cassette.

    Obviously I'm dropping the chain to the inside and the outside on rough trails.

    The chain is as short as it can get.

    I've spoke with one other person who has a similar problem, but he is the only one I know personally with a decent amount of time on SRAM 2X10.

    Am I alone here?

    What am I missing?
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  2. #2
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    That doesn't sound right at all. Did you buy the parts from a shop? New bike? If so, take it to the shop and see what they say.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nixgame22
    That doesn't sound right at all. Did you buy the parts from a shop? New bike? If so, take it to the shop and see what they say.

    New bike, I built it, and I've built a lot of bikes. The set-up is on.

    My friend has affirmed the same situation after a year on XX.
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  4. #4
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    ? Chain a bit long
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRandall
    ? Chain a bit long

    Nope, it's as short as it can be.
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  6. #6
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    I have the same issue with my x9 set up. Im a bike mechanic and cannot get it to stop doing it. Im going to cut my loss and go back to a 1x10 with a mrp chain guide set up.

  7. #7
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    So, it is the derailer that is the culprit? I have been using Sram 9spd for years. I am in the process of switching to X9 10spd. Maybe I will give Shimano a look with a Sram 2x crank.

  8. #8
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    I am starting to think it is the spring in the rear D. Ive noticed that over the past two months the shifting has become less and less solid. As in you don't feel a definite upshift like you expect from SRAM.

  9. #9
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    Our XCG will stop the chain from dropping inboard, but at this time we don't have any proper, tensioned chain guides for 2x10 (referring to bashless double cranks). It also provides bash protection.
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  10. #10
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    Sounds like a chain tension issue to me. If it is bouncing off just from being dropped, then it seems the rear derailleur is not providing enough tension. Has Sram lowered the spring tension on its 10 speed rear derailleurs to help improve front shifting (I don't know if that would help it, just thinking out loud)?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    Our XCG will stop the chain from dropping inboard, but at this time we don't have any proper, tensioned chain guides for 2x10 (referring to bashless double cranks). It also provides bash protection.
    Does it help with outside drops?

    I'm getting both inside and outside....

    and it's awesome.

    Not.

    I thought about the top mount MRP guides, but that would still allow the chain to pop off the bottom and beat the frame to death.
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  12. #12
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    Also...

    Unfortunately one of the drops early on ripped the pin off the big ring making it impossible to pedal the chain back in place.
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  13. #13
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    Can you unwind the cage and alter the spring location/tension as you can on the 9 spd derailleurs? Might be an option.
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  14. #14
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    Spoke with the SRAM rep today. He said he was starting to see issues with the 10spd stuff. He also said that SRAM would warranty the derailluer if it was indeed the spring tension problem.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmoset
    Can you unwind the cage and alter the spring location/tension as you can on the 9 spd derailleurs? Might be an option.

    Funny you mention it.

    I remember years ago I read in an issue of MBAction (over a decade ago) that they had a suggestion to do that to a Shimano mech (either XT or XTR).

    I did it then...

    I wonder if the X9 has two separate spring holes???

    I'll need to look at that.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoohoo
    Spoke with the SRAM rep today. He said he was starting to see issues with the 10spd stuff. He also said that SRAM would warranty the derailluer if it was indeed the spring tension problem.
    Warranty?

    Sounds interesting.

    Wonder if they would warranty it after I pull it apart and look...
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  17. #17
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    It would be helpful to see that in action, but I guess that a tensioner such as blackspire stinger or bashguard would solve the problem.

    It is sort of normal and may show up with an evil combination of chainstay length, chainring sizes and chainline.

    Are you dropping chains on the bottom or at the top? Does it happen when backpedalling - especially on extreme combos ( such as big-big, big-small )?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator
    It would be helpful to see that in action, but I guess that a tensioner such as blackspire stinger or bashguard would solve the problem.

    It is sort of normal and may show up with an evil combination of chainstay length, chainring sizes and chainline.

    Are you dropping chains on the bottom or at the top? Does it happen when backpedalling - especially on extreme combos ( such as big-big, big-small )?

    I don't think the Stinger will fit. There's a pivot down there that would make things tight or impossible. That was my first thought.

    It drops from the bottom while going over rough terrain while pedaling or coasting.

    It will drop from any combo on the big ring.
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  19. #19
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    I've been having a similar issue with my 2x10 setup. x9 shifters, x0 rear derailleur. Chain tension just seems like it can't be adjusted correctly.

    I don't know if it is a derailleur issue or what???
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahiwa
    I've been having a similar issue with my 2x10 setup. x9 shifters, x0 rear derailleur. Chain tension just seems like it can't be adjusted correctly.

    I don't know if it is a derailleur issue or what???

    I'm going to be looking inside soon to see if there is a higher tension setting.
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  21. #21
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    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.
    How does the spring on the new derailer feel?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    How does the spring on the new derailer feel?

    I won't have the warranty derailleur for awhile.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I won't have the warranty derailleur for awhile.
    Is Sram claiming it is a weak spring? You have me worried. I am picking up my X9 setup today.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    Is Sram claiming it is a weak spring? You have me worried. I am picking up my X9 setup today.

    I was told this could be my problem.

    I asked if this was common.

    The answer was "no."
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  26. #26
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    And by the way...

    A round of applause for SRAM. A big company that has a live human being picking up the phone and answering questions.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I was told this could be my problem.

    I asked if this was common.

    The answer was "no."
    Judging from Yoohoo's above account and yours, it sounds like SRAM is very aware of there being a weak spring issue with some of their rear derailleurs. And judging from the responses to this thread, it doesn't seem to be uncommon.

    But definitely kudos to SRAM for quickly addressing the issue.

  28. #28
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    If you bought from a shop they should give you another one and deal with SRAM. The customer should not be put out. If you bought online....you are on your own. Mine being a employee purchase will take longer since I can't just grab one off the shelf. I think Im going to sell my SRAM build when the new D gets here and give the Dyna Sys a try. In the mean time I went back to a 1x10 with a MRP chain guide and my old XT crank.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoohoo
    If you bought from a shop they should give you another one and deal with SRAM. The customer should not be put out. If you bought online....you are on your own. Mine being a employee purchase will take longer since I can't just grab one off the shelf. I think Im going to sell my SRAM build when the new D gets here and give the Dyna Sys a try. In the mean time I went back to a 1x10 with a MRP chain guide and my old XT crank.

    Mail order, but they're my sponsor (Bike 29), so they're handling it.
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  30. #30
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    Ditch that FD and go 1x10. I'd go crazy if I went from SS to 2x10. FD's are the work of the devil.

    Then you could use that E13 XCX-ST with its fancy eccentric mount and eliminate drops to the inside & outside.

    Need some light reading? Check out my thread on 1x9, currently at 24 pages.
    Show pics of your 1x9 setup. Lotsa smart people in there.

  31. #31
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    First off, what percentage of your componentry is anodized purple? If it is less than 45.83% I would start there and add or subtract parts until the problem stops.

    Should the problem continue to persist, I would drill no less than 5 'speed' holes at 45 degree angles canted in towards the chainrings, in and around your BB/downtube area (you can do this with the BB installed). The force of the wind being accelerated through the holes should keep the chain from falling to the inside.
    To keep the chain from falling to the outside you'll need to do the following: Rent a copy (assuming you don't already own one) of Corvette Summer. When you're done crying after watching it again for the first time, go back and rewatch it and study the air ram stuff hanging off the side, hood and the feathered man mullet worn by Luke Skywalker. None of this has anything to do with the fix but you should consider doing something similar to your car/min-van/self.

    Anyhoo.... Take an old rear plastic fender and place it against the driveside chainstay allowing it to protrude and rest against the chain at the mid point of the circumference of the largest chainring. Take your drill and while holding the fender in place drill two holes through the plastic and chainstay and secure in place with a couple of old Thompson stem face place bolts.

    You'll hear some clicking as the crankarm/pedal/your ankle and/or shoe strikes the fender but that noise will go away once it breaks and falls off.

    Cheers


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    I think if you switch to one chainring on the front and one cog in the rear, your problem would be resolved.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    First off, what percentage of your componentry is anodized purple? If it is less than 45.83% I would start there and add or subtract parts until the problem stops.

    Should the problem continue to persist, I would drill no less than 5 'speed' holes at 45 degree angles canted in towards the chainrings, in and around your BB/downtube area (you can do this with the BB installed). The force of the wind being accelerated through the holes should keep the chain from falling to the inside.
    To keep the chain from falling to the outside you'll need to do the following: Rent a copy (assuming you don't already own one) of Corvette Summer. When you're done crying after watching it again for the first time, go back and rewatch it and study the air ram stuff hanging off the side, hood and the feathered man mullet worn by Luke Skywalker. None of this has anything to do with the fix but you should consider doing something similar to your car/min-van/self.

    Anyhoo.... Take an old rear plastic fender and place it against the driveside chainstay allowing it to protrude and rest against the chain at the mid point of the circumference of the largest chainring. Take your drill and while holding the fender in place drill two holes through the plastic and chainstay and secure in place with a couple of old Thompson stem face place bolts.

    You'll hear some clicking as the crankarm/pedal/your ankle and/or shoe strikes the fender but that noise will go away once it breaks and falls off.

    Cheers



    After 10 years in a shop this is the best damn answer for any bike related problem I have ever heard!!!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    An update:

    I got out an old XTR derailleur. I felt the tension and compared it to the SRAM X9. It was noticeably stiffer.

    I pulled the cage off the SRAM mech. I looked at the back. The spring does have a stop (for lack of a better word). There are five similar holes as well.

    Stop.

    Take a breath.

    Call SRAM.

    I tell them about my problem. He says that my issue should not being happening, and to get back with the shop where I purchased it for a warranty. Did and done.

    When I asked him about relocating the spring to another hole he told me "no."

    That's good enough for me.

    I'm having the problem you describe with XX, medium cage. I would like to try and add some tension by relocating the spring stop, not impressed by SRAM's "no" just not good enough for me. Is it possible to do that spring trick you mention without destroying the rd? Also I'd add that the XO fd has rather strong spring in it and when you release it with the trigger (I'd prefer gripshifters) it about launches the cage through the seat tube imparting some serious kinetic energy into the chain. I think that's part of the problem in my case.
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  35. #35
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    I was just at the SRAM 2x10 experience yesterday. Test rode a well used XX drivetrain and it had absolutely no issues, but granted it was on a FS bike. It was much smoother and quieter and was more "shift-on-command" (instantaneous) than my 2011 X.0 equipped bike. My XO setup makes me wish for Shimano, but XX just seems almost perfect. Levers seemed to be very light to the touch too.

    I also have major chain drop and the chain is as short as I can make it (big ring, big cog, bypass RD, add 2 links). Since I also have front shifting issues, with limit screws and cable tuned, I thought it might be my FSA 386 crank. I accepted chain drop on rough stuff as a hardtail issue, but this thread makes me suspicious. I do notice my chain rattling around a lot, making noise without even hitting the chainstay. I even had the chain come off on the road a couple times. Fairly consistently doing something simple as dropping off a curb too. It drops onto both the crank and BB and it is very hard to pedal it back on--the lower part of the chain jams between the chainring and chainstay.

    The SRAM guys seemed to be uninterested in going out of their way to help me, since it was a big turn-out. I made it known that the XX shifts tons better than XO and they just said it has higher quality materials going into it as they were eyeing my bike. They emphasized their ratios up front saying for every 2 teeth in small, there's 3 in big and that they line up in a way that gives them perfect locations for ramps and such, so they basically tried to sell me on their crank, which I was thinking about buying anyways. One of the other riders there said that it was simply because it was a hardtail that I had issues with chain drop--no SRAM tech said that shouldn't happen.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 12-13-2010 at 01:49 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    Mail order, but they're my sponsor (Bike 29), so they're handling it.

    I wIsh I was sponsored.

    Seriously you OP'ed this beatch and now that's all you got? And you complaining about it on your blog...Legit complaints but still.
    Last edited by YB1; 12-13-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  37. #37
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    Dicky, I have been having the same exact problem as you...running the same setup..and soon enough, the same frame aswell. I have tried to taking out links and it didn't solve the problem (much). I am running the 1091R chain..but I don't think that is the culprit.

    When I was installing my friend's R/D (same setup as mine) the spring came undone on the Rear Derailleur so I had to set it back into place which was pretty tricky. There is only 2 holes on the inside, and only one 1 is the correct one. I don't think it would be possible to slide the cage around the stop and keep the spring from slipping when you try to add tension and then tighten the allen bolt.. So to relieve you from attempting to open it up (if you haven't already)..I guess what I'm saying is...learn from my mistakes :P

    I would really like to know if there is a higher tension spring out there that is available. I would even go for steel or titanium if it were offered.

    I really would like to know what the fix for this is..I drop my chain at an average of 2 times every 6 miles depending on how technical and bumpy it is. I don't want to resort to a chainguide as that kind of defeats the purpose of an actual "fix" which I would rather have.


    Varaxis,

    Something doesn't seem right...and more so the unenthusiastic experience you had with SRAM Reps. Granted I have only dealt with them on one occasion to get a replacement part, but it wasn't a bad one.

    I think this is an issue we may need to voice for a recall on the spring or something to develop more chain tension. I am not even sure if chain tension throught the rear derailleur is the answer, but it does seem to be the culprit.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver
    Dicky, I have been having the same exact problem as you...

    I think we are doomed.
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  39. #39
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    I think we should have faith, but be proactive about it. SRAM has really upped things in the corporation for all of their component brands Rockshox, Truvativ etc.

    I think the logical thing is really press for them to investigate what is causing the problem. I had absolutely no problems with past X9 or X0 components prior to 2x10. I don't think its 2x10 that has anything to do with it, but something in the components themselves. I do think that this can be narrowed down the rear derailleur, but I am no expert......

    I just hate the idea of sitting on my hands when my bike is not mechanically sound....I hate strangers! :P
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  40. #40
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    I should've checked out the chain tension on the RDs on the bikes at the SRAM 2x10 event. Mine does feel like it's just barely taking up the slack. Granted, less tension is less wear and probably a quieter smoother drivetrain, but losing the chain after coming through some bumps and wanting to get speed back up just kills the flow of the ride.

    Gonna try and go 1x10 with a chain keeper in the meanwhile. Too bad my FSA Afterburner 386 cranks have an extremely limited selection of rings (3 bolt 86 BCD).

  41. #41
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    Gripshift will fix this problem, or electro-mech. Then the chain can be fed up or down on the chainrings...
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    Gripshift will fix this problem, or electro-mech. Then the chain can be fed up or down on the chainrings...
    SRAM does not make a 10 speed Gripshift. I am curious how you came to the conclusion that a Gripshift will fix this problem, when it doesn't exist. So I am curious how you diagnosed the problem/fix..... Pretty sure you are thinking 9 Speed when the topic clearly states "2x10."

    Back to being on subject of 2x10 chain drop, I recently upgraded from the X-9 R/D to the X-O, and that has virtually cleared the problem of chain drops. I cannot pinpoint it as it being the problem because I also switched to a SRAM S-2200 (X-O) crankset with a bash at the same time. With the chain direction always coming directly off of the cassette to the crank, and having the chain consistently drop off from the top of the chainring...I am lead to believe it is maybe the tooth profile or something different about the chainrings on the X-9 crankset.

    I cannot verify this because I replaced two possible part that causes the problem, and it has since vanished which is the desired result anyways...The aftermarket available XX rings may be a less expensive upgrade that cures the problem..but I am only speculating.
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  43. #43
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    lol u got trolled

    o wait... (looks at the guy's other posts).

  44. #44
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    Thanks for posting this. I was convinced I forgot how to setup a bike.

    I'm having the same experience with a Sram X9 10sp mid cage RD on an all SRAM drivetrain. Pick the rear wheel off the ground from 1ft up and drop it. It'll come off the front ring about 50% of the time.

    A call to the reseller and SRAM has a new mech in the mail to me with return shipping. I asked for them to include a new quick link because I'll have to cut the chain. We'll see if that happens.
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  45. #45
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    That's the same test I asked someone else on these forums who got the same bike as me to do, to test if it were just my bike. He told me couldn't do the test because his bike was missing some parts, I think.

    Doing that test, mine doesn't drop that frequently, unless I raise it higher than 1 ft.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappyMedium
    Thanks for posting this. I was convinced I forgot how to setup a bike.

    I'm having the same experience with a Sram X9 10sp mid cage RD on an all SRAM drivetrain. Pick the rear wheel off the ground from 1ft up and drop it. It'll come off the front ring about 50% of the time.

    A call to the reseller and SRAM has a new mech in the mail to me with return shipping. I asked for them to include a new quick link because I'll have to cut the chain. We'll see if that happens.

    I know you're not supposed to reuse the SRAM 10spd quicklinks, but you can open them with channel locks. I wish I could find the link where someone took a picture of how you grab the link with the tool, but you basically get the channel locks to push on the plates at an angle.

    There's also another method used in this video:

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/02/03/...-install-hack/
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  47. #47
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    Thanks Dicky, you earned your 50˘ on this thread. I still hope SRAM does the right thing and sends me another one.
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  48. #48
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    I have had my 10 speed link off countless times. This works like a charm.
    Master Link Pliers

    I was dropping my chain, this fixed it.
    SRAM Cage Spring Tension Adjustment

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobus
    Meh, the 10 spd X9 has no such adjustment.
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  50. #50
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    This isn't the only thread on this topic. Here's one from Cannondale land. It seems that there IS an issue if there's this many posts about it. Viva la revolution, as far as 2X10 goes but somethng ain't right, right?


    Flash Carbon 29er 2 Front shifting issues
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  51. #51
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    This isn't the only thread on this topic. Here's one from Cannondale land. It seems that there IS an issue if there's this many posts about it. Viva la revolution, as far as 2X10 goes but somethng ain't right, right?


    Flash Carbon 29er 2 Front shifting issues
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  52. #52
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    Dicky- Did you get your new derailleur and did this fix your problem?
    CyclingCentralVa.org

  53. #53
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    Can't you just slap on an old derailleur made for 9 speed or are they not designed to handle 36t?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    Can't you just slap on an old derailleur made for 9 speed or are they not designed to handle 36t?
    different cable pull ratio

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    different cable pull ratio
    That's not a problem unless you're trying to mix Shimano RD with SRAM shifter and vice versa. The cable pull difference is done in the shifter. The ratio is the same.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    That's not a problem unless you're trying to mix Shimano RD with SRAM shifter and vice versa. The cable pull difference is done in the shifter. The ratio is the same.
    the new 10spd lines for both brands use a different pull ratio than the previous 9 and 8spd parts from the respective companies, both in the shifter and derailleur

    it looks like SRAM calls the new ratio "Exact Actuation 1:1" on their website just like their road line, which is confusing because I was told before that the new Exact Actuation ratio isn't the same as the previous 1:1 ratio. Then again 1:1 supposedly wasn't exactly 1:1 so maybe this is a different "1:1"

  57. #57
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    My bad, seems I pulled that info out from my ass without looking it up. You seem to be right. There's even a sticky on the front page of this forum.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR1
    Dicky- Did you get your new derailleur and did this fix your problem?

    Got the new derailleur, but (un)fortunately I made the Tallboy a single speed and haven't tried it yet.

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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I know you're not supposed to reuse the SRAM 10spd quicklinks, but you can open them with channel locks. I wish I could find the link where someone took a picture of how you grab the link with the tool, but you basically get the channel locks to push on the plates at an angle.

    There's also another method used in this video:

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/02/03/...-install-hack/

    My experience is you have about a 50/50 chance of damaging those 10 speed links if you unhook them. Re-useable links and Gripshift compatiblity are my two favorite things about 9 speed. I bet it's a little less fussy about mud too, but I don't have enough experience yet on my 10 speed stuff in bad mud to really know.

    I don't think you ever put a definitive ending on your front shifting problems thread. Where are you now with it, satisified with a poor, but still manageable level of performance or still seaking to get it to shift at 9 speed levels of reliability? It's a strange deal because X-Glide was one of the biggest sales pitch items when the XX started to come out almost two years ago.
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    And by the way...

    A round of applause for SRAM. A big company that has a live human being picking up the phone and answering questions.

    Live people but still it seems this issue is a serious one and I'm really surpirsed it hasn't recieved any publicity in the cycing press.
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB1
    My experience is you have about a 50/50 chance of damaging those 10 speed links if you unhook them.

    I don't think you ever put a definitive ending on your front shifting problems thread. .

    I'm 4 for 4 so far.

    Whenever I get around to mounting the derailleur back on (this June, I think) I'll try to remember to update the thread.
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  62. #62
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    Dicky,

    I know you as an SS rider. Is there a chance that some of this dropping is just because you're such an aggressive and charismatic rider? I mean, most riders as awesome as you and I experience chain drop on geared bikes. We gap physics on the gnar descents (;

    The faster I descend, the more the chain drops, and this situation has gotten worse as more and more relief is engineered into the rings, The same technology that makes it easy for the chain to shift onto the ring makes it easy for it to fall off. Combine that with lousy chainline and the situation can be pretty frustrating. More folks are going with a stepped lower roller to help prevent this.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.F.L.
    Dicky,

    I know you as an SS rider. Is there a chance that some of this dropping is just because you're such an aggressive and charismatic rider? I mean, most riders as awesome as you and I experience chain drop on geared bikes. We gap physics on the gnar descents (;
    I have never considered this.

    I owe my apologies to SRAM.

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  64. #64
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    I'm having the same trouble with my XX... Mi first idea was to change the spring tension but it seems not a great idea!

  65. #65
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    Looks like Shimano has something on it's new 2012 XTR rear derailer to fix this. Hopefully it's not patentable and SRAM can copy.
    Emory Kalahari Kruiser

  66. #66
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    Definitely interested to hear other solutions/ results from folks. I have the epic 29er w the SRAM cranks, x9 rd, x7 shifters and fd. I've been having the chain drop problem since I got the bike. I took two links out (maxxed) and made every adjustment (I'm a mechanic- know what I'm doing) and still having the same issue. I called specialized the other day and they said they haven't heard about this (riiiiiight). If anyone gets a new rd, please report the results...

  67. #67
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    I talked to SRAM yesterday and they said they've heard of some issues with the rear derailleur spring, but mine is tight and strong. They also said that there is no danger in the cross-chaining on a 2x10 and you should be able to ride in the big-big configuration. They ALSO said that Specialized asked for a special 38X24 configuration (typicallyl 39t is the smallest "big" ring on a 2x10) which forced them to essentially use a 3spd front crank with the top chainring removed instead of a 2x10 specific crank arm. I think this is the issue.

  68. #68
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    My X.0 2x10 setup has similar issues. The spring feels strong but my drivetrain fails the 1ft drop test. Any solutions out there?

  69. #69
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    Front Derailleur Alignment

    I'm fairly convinced that it's the result of the poor front derailleur alignment. Because it's a direct mount, you can't adjust the derailleur down, but there are HUGE gaps that allow for the chain to fall off both outside and inside when in the bigger of the two chainrings.

    I think mine is a Specialized design issue.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-front-der-issue.jpg  


  70. #70
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    I had this same problem (dropping the chain) with my XX drivetrain. When shifting from big to small chainring, the chain would fall off to the inside. I adjusted the derailleur and all worked well on the stand, but the chain would fall off when shifting while riding on trails. I had 2 theories: (1) the tension spring in the rear derailleur was lousy and/or (2) the big chainring was worn. I replaced the XX rear derailleur with a X9 derailleur. This didn't fix the problem even though the new X9 derailleur's tension was much greater than my old XX. I replaced the big chainring. This seemed to work for a while, but gradually got worse and now drops the chain often. I'm thinking of going back to XT 3X9.

  71. #71
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    After reading this I am a little worried. Is there an end-all-be-all-fix for this problem?

    I have full 2x10 X9 on my Pivot Mach 4, but it came w. a direct mount XX front derailleur. It worked out OK at first, but now I get constant chain drops from the front chain ring. I generally stay in the 39 up front and these never occur during shifting. In my experience the chain will generally drop when on a rough down hill section at a decent speed.

    I tried to adjust everything myself, but the problem persisted. My LBS has had 2 cracks at it and the problem persists.

    I don't need the 26T up front so I have considered putting a guide on. If I do that will the problem go away? If it is the rear derailleur spring will I still have issues even going 1x10?

  72. #72
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    Look at this thing:



    "In Fruita a few days back MRP marketing guy and all round shredder Noah Sears was sporting an interesting looking guide on his 2X setup. Closer inspection revealed a pretty sweet dual jockey wheeled guide that looked like a cross between a Lopes guide and a G2 SL. It’s not in production yet but Noah said it will come in both BB and ISCG mounts. This thing is super simple and super effective; in two days riding I didn’t see his chain drop once. "




    From here:

    http://www.spokemagazine.com/2011/06...ide-spy-shots/
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  73. #73
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    I've ridden 3x9 (and 3x8 and 3x7) setups for twenty years without chain drop issues. If I have to buy aftermarket parts to make a "superior" system work, that's just stupid. The main point of 2x10 is weight savings- now you're adding more weight just to make it work. I'd rather have a 3x9 or 3x10. This whole fiasco is just marketing- I see no advantage.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  74. #74
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    I was having major chain drop with my xo crank and x9 rear derailleur.....until I called sram and they sent me a medium cage to replace the long cage. I have not had a single issue since. I have raced 4 xc races since then two of which were Dauset in Ga and Racoon mtn in TN. Both trails are the perfect place to make a chain drop. The chain never left the rings!....even down some really rough sections of trail.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    I've ridden 3x9 (and 3x8 and 3x7) setups for twenty years without chain drop issues. If I have to buy aftermarket parts to make a "superior" system work, that's just stupid. The main point of 2x10 is weight savings- now you're adding more weight just to make it work. I'd rather have a 3x9 or 3x10. This whole fiasco is just marketing- I see no advantage.
    I like the concept.

    Not so sure about the follow through.


    Still haven't put the warranty derailleur on.
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  76. #76
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    New build with Shimano XTR M980 2x10 crankset (38-26), Shimano XTR M985-E2 FD, KMC X10SL chain and SRAM X.0 mid-cage RD and shifters. 4 rides and zero chain drop issues. Whew!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by onegymrat View Post
    New build with Shimano XTR M980 2x10 crankset (38-26), Shimano XTR M985-E2 FD, KMC X10SL chain and SRAM X.0 mid-cage RD and shifters. 4 rides and zero chain drop issues. Whew!
    In my opinion you should of used the FD986....

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducmanducman View Post
    In my opinion you should of used the FD986....
    Couldn't use anything other than a direct mount for Specialized Epic Carbon frame. 986 is a clamp and also down swing which would not work.

  79. #79
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    It may not sit well with the light weight racer boi in you, but a Blackspire Stinger guide would likely fix the issue. Or just go to a single ring/simple guide setup and keep the 11-36 in the back.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  80. #80
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    I've had a very similar issue w/ the 2x10 setup on my FS. SRAM S2200 (akin to X0 I'm told) 24T/38T/Bash crankset, 11-36 SLX cassette, XTR long cage RD, X7 2x10 direct mount FD, SLX trigger shifters. Obviously w/ the bash I've only had the chain drop to the inside.

    It's generally only happened on decent sized drops or fast descents w/ a big bottom out. Haven't experienced the issue again since swapping to an XT chain and removing a link from where the stock KMC X10 chain was at but I've only had 3 rides in since this change.

    I personally like the gearing ranges I get w/ my setup and having less redundancy. I also seem to have appreciably straighter chain lines in the extremes than I do on my 3x9 making pretty much all 20 combos usable.
    Last edited by Sid Nitzerglobin; 06-15-2011 at 09:58 AM.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by onegymrat View Post
    New build with Shimano XTR M980 2x10 crankset (38-26), Shimano XTR M985-E2 FD, KMC X10SL chain and SRAM X.0 mid-cage RD and shifters. 4 rides and zero chain drop issues. Whew!
    This is intriguing. The only thing that should have any real difference here would be that front derailleur- I mean, a 38t chainring is going to be the same diameter as another 38t ring, right? I have x.9 shifters, rear der (mid-cage)... Maybe I should try out that front derailleur to see if it mounts up and works with the stock truvativ crankset... Do they make an xt version of the same fd?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    This is intriguing. The only thing that should have any real difference here would be that front derailleur- I mean, a 38t chainring is going to be the same diameter as another 38t ring, right? I have x.9 shifters, rear der (mid-cage)... Maybe I should try out that front derailleur to see if it mounts up and works with the stock truvativ crankset... Do they make an xt version of the same fd?
    They don't have a 2x10 XT FD yet. I'm sure they'll have that out for their 2012 line though, otherwise, they are allowing SRAM take all the business. For the Shimano XTR E-mounts, they had two sizes from which to choose, the 985-E (44 or 42 big ring) or 985-E2 (40 or 38 big ring). I found out here on the same forum and have zero regrets on the choice.

  83. #83
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    Onegymrat- can you post a pic of your setup? In particular, I'm curious about the clearance over the big chainring. Did you direct mount that fd or use the bb mount?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  84. #84
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    Here you go, alshead. Took off the BB mount but had to use the Shimano adapter which mounts directly onto the chainstay.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-005.jpg  

    Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-004.jpg  


  85. #85
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    Cool- can't see how it mounts up to the chain stay... I wonder if the Shimano adapter would work with the SRAM FD if the mount holes (E2) are the same? Any idea the part number or info on that adapter?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Cool- can't see how it mounts up to the chain stay... I wonder if the Shimano adapter would work with the SRAM FD if the mount holes (E2) are the same? Any idea the part number or info on that adapter?
    I'll try some close-ups later and post. Originally, I got the SRAM X0 S1 Direct Mount, which is what Specialized recommended. But the bottom of the cage was less than 1mm away from the chainstay and it definitely was NOT a sure fit. So I opted for new Shimano XTR since they are known to run smoother than SRAM in the FD dept anyway. The adapter came with the original frame's Shimano FD. This was a full build frame scratch so after seeing this thread before my first ride, I was expecting lots of issues. So far so good.

    Not sure of part number, couldn't find on Shimano site. Check out page 11 on this doc though: http://service.specialized.com/colla...FSR-Manual.pdf

  87. #87
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    Getting it figured out...

    Okay- now this is all starting to make sense. I've posted some of these pics on another thread, but I'll post them here. I don't know how to comment on them in-line, so I'll try to explain first...

    1. My FD on my 29er Epic Carbon Comp. There is about 5mm of clearance over the 38t big ring.
    2. Crank removed- the direct mount on the chainstay (with adapter in place).
    3. SRAM X7 2x10 S3 (39t) FD. You can see that there is NO way to adjust this derailleur up and down.
    4. Tech doc from Specialized, suggesting that the derailleur should be able to be mounted in a "down" position for the Epic (again, not available in the SRAM FD).
    5. Tech doc from Shimano showing that the XTR FD-M985-E2 FDer is purposely build to be adjustable to accommodate a 38t chainring in the "down" position.

    Seems pretty clear to me that Specialized improperly spec'd this bike and that the XTR FD should solve my problems- only, I think Specialized should take care of it, and not me...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-front-der-issue.jpg  

    Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-img_9003.jpg  

    Issues with 2X10 chain drop?-img_9010.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images   

  88. #88
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    It's amazing how a tiny difference in the FD can be such a huge headache. Go for it with the XTR. I know it's not cheap but quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.

  89. #89
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    Finally an update.

    Although I got the warranty derailleur pretty quick, I did not mount it up till this past weekend. One ride @22-23 miles and no chain drop. It was only a local Charlotte ride, but the last time I had this bike set-up geared, I dropped the chain like a gazillion times out there.

    So, success.

    Don't know if I'm gonna leave my bike with gears or not, but it's nice to know it works now.
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  90. #90
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    Another update...

    Since my last post, I have built new wheels (Hope Pro II's laced to Arch 29ers), installed a new chain (SRAM), added X-9 shifters (bike came with x-7's) and re-adjusted both derailleurs. I still have the B-Screw pretty far out, adding more tension, but I haven't had chain drop the past few rides with all of these upgrades. I'm pretty disappointed with the lack of precision of the X-9 derailleur and shifters (this could be due to the b-screw adjustment), but it's better than dropping my chain all the time. If I had a bunch of money, I think I'd replace the entire drivetrain with XT or XTR...

    If anyone else is looking at this, I would recommend trying a new chain as a starter- shouldn't make a difference, but...

  91. #91
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    Chains do matter. For example, the KMC X9SL is really lightweight, but also really flexy. Flexy in a way that I can test its lateral stiffness by trying to make a loop with it off the bike, bending the chain laterally, and the resulting loop's radius is under a foot. Heavier/stiffer chains seem to make loops with larger diameters.

    That "flimsy" trait allows it to be thrown around a lot harder by the forces of the bike. By that same token, the rear derailleur is able to put slightly more tension on it, since there's less weight to overcome, but it's the sideways forces that are more likely to derail and drop the chain.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Our XCG will stop the chain from dropping inboard, but at this time we don't have any proper, tensioned chain guides for 2x10 (referring to bashless double cranks). It also provides bash protection.
    Excellent. That is exactly what i have been looking for.

  93. #93
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    I am having a chain drop problem on my 3*8 hardtail in fast rough sections. After reading this thread I tried the drop test and the chain fell off the middle ring 100% of the time. Checked my stock pile of RD and switched out the 952 long cage for a 952 mid cage. Then took one link out of the chain. So now big big going through the RD the RD is almost at full extension. Did the drop test after these two changes and the chain fell off the middle once in 20 or so drops.

    I will ride the same trails tomorrow and see if the real world test backs up the shop test.

  94. #94
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    Reading some recent posts here it sounds like SRAM and Shimano 10-spd shifters / rear der / front der will work with each other (as long as all are 10-spd)?

    Will the 9-spd XTR front der work with the 10-spd shifters?

    Thanks,

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overdrive View Post
    Reading some recent posts here it sounds like SRAM and Shimano 10-spd shifters / rear der / front der will work with each other (as long as all are 10-spd)?

    Will the 9-spd XTR front der work with the 10-spd shifters?

    Thanks,
    Are you posting under the right thread?

    Need more info to answer to your question. Is the crank a triple or a true double (not a 2+bash)? If it's a true double and the shifter is for 2x10, I don't think so, but if it's a triple crank and the shifters are for 3x10, I think it'll work fine.

    Also, I doubt SRAM/Shimano rear 10spd shifter and RD are compatible with each other.

  96. #96
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    Anybody jumping the chain between the pulley and the inner rear derailleur plate on 2x10 XX?

  97. #97
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    How do you get that to happen? Is that a B-tension adjustment issue?

  98. #98
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    My Cannondale Carbon Flash 2 was spec'd with a SRAM X9 long cage rear derailleur, a KMC chain and a SRAM X9 direct mount FD spec'd for a 39 2X10 outer chainring. Going to a 180mm crank, I changed the stock 39/26 SRAM carbon crank to a 38/26 XTR crank.
    The chain would occasionally drop to the outside toward the crankarm on super rocky fast descents. I checked the chainlength and shortened it a couple of links so that there was still a slight bend in the cage on the big big cog cassette combo. I still had some drops. My dealer contacted both Shimano and SRAM. SRAM said that the problem was the Shimano XTR crank which would require a Shimano front derailleur. SRAM told my dealer that a medium cage rear derailleur would not help. I was skeptical since there is only a one tooth difference between the SRAM's 39 chainring and the Shimano's 38. I elected to replace the RD with a SRAM XX mediium cage. Since mounting the new derailleur and resizing the chain according SRAM's instructions, I have not experienced another chain drop. As per the SRAM instructions included with the RD, the chain is sized not running it thru the RD pulleys. You take the minimal length running the chain directly from the big ring to the big rear cog and then add only one additional link before running it thru the RD .

  99. #99
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    I had the same problem but mine was not a rd issue. Mine was I was trying to use a front triple shifter and bigger cage (triple) fd. I have done it on a rd bike so I figured it would work here. Once I changed to a double shifter and compact front derailleur it worked great. I can tell your front derailleur is not for a double. All I can say is as we try to squeeze more gears parts seem more temperamental and wear out more quickly. It makes me choose to ride my ss more and more!

  100. #100
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    My front derailleur is a compact. My problem is solved with the medium cage rear derailleur.

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