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  1. #1
    Fx1
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    GX 1x11 vs XX1 Eagle

    So im still trying to find out where the money goes on these over priced drive trains.

    Other than a bit of weight savings from materials and expensive production methods what are the real differences in performance?

    GX 1x11 drive trains are being fitted to many bikes and cost £300 all in.

    XO 1x11 i cant tell whats different between this and XX1 but its cheaper

    XX1/XO1 eagle gives you 1x12 but i dont see what you actually can do that is not possible on 1x11 for 99% of rides.

    So we have £300 GX versus £1200 Eagle.

    Do we think its worth 4x the price?

  2. #2
    m66
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    Yes

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  3. #3
    Fx1
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    Quote Originally Posted by m66 View Post
    Yes

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    Why

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  4. #4
    m66
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    Same argument why 1*11 is better then 1*10, range. Maybe you have enough range with GX and weight do not matter for you, just buy/ stay with GX. But let people decide what is best for them. For someones 99% rides, bike from 20 years ago with double 8 is enough...

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  5. #5
    Fx1
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    Quote Originally Posted by m66 View Post
    Same argument why 1*11 is better then 1*10, range. Maybe you have enough range with GX and weight do not matter for you, just buy/ stay with GX. But let people decide what is best for them. For someones 99% rides, bike from 20 years ago with double 8 is enough...

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    so its basically £900 for an extra gear and few hundred grams?

    nobody has anything else?

  6. #6
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    We all know the simplicity that comes with 1x. Also a little weight savings. Other than that, it just comes down to bling. For what I ride, I will be trying the e13 cassette because at times at 30 chainring and 10 t cog just doesn't spin up fast enough for me to feel comfortable approaching a road gap or a jump. But I'm a terrible climber so I need the 30-42 help. I bet a 9-46 will be nice when it's time.


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    Let's put it this way: Are they selling? Then there you go, you have your answer.

    Is it for you? Well, only you can answer that...but I'm pretty sure I know a safe bet when I see one.

    What I always find interesting is how some people that profess to care so little about things like this can put so much time and energy into...not caring. Odd really.

  8. #8
    Fx1
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardTraveller View Post
    Let's put it this way: Are they selling? Then there you go, you have your answer.

    Is it for you? Well, only you can answer that...but I'm pretty sure I know a safe bet when I see one.

    What I always find interesting is how some people that profess to care so little about things like this can put so much time and energy into...not caring. Odd really.
    It's selling due to being put on new bikes this year.

    I might be building from scratch so it's important to understand where to put the money

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  9. #9
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    10-42 vs 10-50. It gives you one additional lower gear. Or allows you to bump up the front ring, to increase top end. Wider range, simple as that. You just have to decide if its worth paying a premium for it.

    When 12 speed trickles down to the GX level, Ill happily pay full price for it.

  10. #10
    Fx1
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    The 11 speed GX shifter is £29

    The 12 speed XX1 Eagle shifter is £130

    They look identical!

  11. #11
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    Black velvet and maccallan both look the same but we all know which one we'd rather be drinking...


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  12. #12
    Fx1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    Black velvet and maccallan both look the same but we all know which one we'd rather be drinking...


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    But they are not the same liquid with different bottles are they ?

    From what I can see the shifter and derailleur are identical other than a bit of lighter material used. Unless someone can show me otherwise?

    I know the mech is machined and the crank is carbon but other than that they are very very alike

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  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Fx1;12842241]The 11 speed GX shifter is £29

    The 12 speed XX1 Eagle shifter is £130

    They look identical!



    Well seeing as one is 12 spd and the other 11 spd, I'm guessing the look of them doesn't tell the whole story...
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  14. #14
    Fx1
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    [QUOTE=chuckie33;12842438]
    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    The 11 speed GX shifter is £29

    The 12 speed XX1 Eagle shifter is £130

    They look identical!



    Well seeing as one is 12 spd and the other 11 spd, I'm guessing the look of them doesn't tell the whole story...
    It's an extra click. But same can apply to the xx1 shifter on 11 speed surely

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  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Fx1;12842462][QUOTE=chuckie33;12842438]
    It's an extra click. But same can apply to the xx1 shifter on 11 speed surely

    Sent from my SM

    The new bike I ordered has XO 1x12. Really looking forward to it. Our other bikes have 1X11 and have been great. As stated above the 1x12 will allow me to run a 34T front ring vs. a 32T. That extra top end will come in handy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    so its basically £900 for an extra gear and few hundred grams?

    nobody has anything else?
    I don't have anything to add beyond that, pretty much sums it up.

  17. #17
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    Think I'm going to run GX on my enduro s works build. Upgrade the cassette as that's the only component I can see with any quality benefit. I'm not going to be robbed by sram. I'll wait for GX x12

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    The 11 speed GX shifter is £29

    The 12 speed XX1 Eagle shifter is £130

    They look identical!
    I can assure you, after having disassembled quite a few parts to service them that similar external appearances do NOT mean that the components are remotely identical.

    Just because you can't see it by glancing at pictures on the internet, doesn't mean that there's not a real functional difference where it matters.

    Is it for you, though? That's a totally different question and nobody else can answer that for you. You have to answer it for yourself. And you make yourself look like a real tool by agonizing this much over it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I can assure you, after having disassembled quite a few parts to service them that similar external appearances do NOT mean that the components are remotely identical.

    Just because you can't see it by glancing at pictures on the internet, doesn't mean that there's not a real functional difference where it matters.

    Is it for you, though? That's a totally different question and nobody else can answer that for you. You have to answer it for yourself. And you make yourself look like a real tool by agonizing this much over it.
    I have been looking back and forth over pictures and I can't see any design differences at all other than material covering the outside of the shifter and derailleur. The reviews also say they can't tell any functional or performance difference.

    I'd also say that saving nearly £900 on one part of the bike is not important and worth agonising over. That saving pays for a top of the range fork or carbon wheels

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    I have been looking back and forth over pictures and I can't see any design differences at all other than material covering the outside of the shifter and derailleur. The reviews also say they can't tell any functional or performance difference.

    I'd also say that saving nearly £900 on one part of the bike is not important and worth agonising over. That saving pays for a top of the range fork or carbon wheels

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    There will be a few subtle finish/materials differences externally, but they more or less use the same molds for the covers. The differences on the shifters are going to be functional and internal to get the extra click. The derailleurs will have slight differences with materials, and the pivots will be tweaked a little to clear the 50t cog. BIGGEST price difference is going to be from the cassette and the manufacturing methods used.

    As has been repeated, is it for you? That is for YOU to answer, and you alone, for YOURSELF, and not for anybody else.

    Eagle isn't going to be showing up on any bikes that don't already have a top level fork or wheels, so you can calm down.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    I have been looking back and forth over pictures and I can't see any design differences at all other than material covering the outside of the shifter and derailleur. The reviews also say they can't tell any functional or performance difference.

    I'd also say that saving nearly £900 on one part of the bike is not important and worth agonising over. That saving pays for a top of the range fork or carbon wheels

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    You're also trying to compare a flagship groupset that is brand new to another that is designed to be a more wallet friendly version that is using trickle down tech from four years ago.

    Why not compare 10 speed Shimano Deore to 11 speed XTR? I mean the price gap there is pretty significant too.

    If you're really asking this question...there is a good chance that the Eagle group is not for you.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post

    If you're really asking this question...there is a good chance that the Eagle group is not for you.
    This was my thoughts after reading the OP's questions and his remarks.
    The XX1 is a better quality build FWIW
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    Think I'm going to run GX on my enduro s works build. Upgrade the cassette as that's the only component I can see with any quality benefit. I'm not going to be robbed by sram. I'll wait for GX x12

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    Why are you so dramatic? "Robbed?" Is an SRAM rep coming to your house with a gun demanding you buy XX1? Just buy what you want and stop complaining.
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  24. #24
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    You're also trying to compare a flagship groupset that is brand new to another that is designed to be a more wallet friendly version that is using trickle down tech from four years ago.

    Why not compare 10 speed Shimano Deore to 11 speed XTR? I mean the price gap there is pretty significant too.

    If you're really asking this question...there is a good chance that the Eagle group is not for you.
    Exactly

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PauLCa916 View Post
    This was my thoughts after reading the OP's questions and his remarks.
    The XX1 is a better quality build FWIW
    Except I find zero proof of that.

    The cheaper models are actually described as more more durable than the XX1.

    Only weight saving and cosmetics seem to be the differences between GX and XX1 in 11 speed.

    I'm guessing next year there will be cheaper Eagle which performance is identical.

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Why are you so dramatic? "Robbed?" Is an SRAM rep coming to your house with a gun demanding you buy XX1? Just buy what you want and stop complaining.
    If I want to buy a bike with high spec suspension and frame I'm being forced to also pay for Eagle xx1 so yes I am being robbed by sram.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    You're also trying to compare a flagship groupset that is brand new to another that is designed to be a more wallet friendly version that is using trickle down tech from four years ago.

    Why not compare 10 speed Shimano Deore to 11 speed XTR? I mean the price gap there is pretty significant too.

    If you're really asking this question...there is a good chance that the Eagle group is not for you.
    It's not trickle down tech at all. That is marketing bull ****. It's the same tech sold for a lower price after they have milked it and other companies have come out with their cheaper versions. They just cut costs on materials and finishing.

    There is zero performance difference being reported between the cheapest and most expensive groups. I mean they even painted the chain gold this year to justify the costs.

    As a person who likes premium quality performance and who regularly spends on such items I can't help but feel like I'm being ripped off and nobody has put a case forward to justify it yet either.

    The honest answer is this: it's bling, it's bragging rights and it's the latest and greatest and it's a rip off but people will still buy it regardless.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    If I want to buy a bike with high spec suspension and frame I'm being forced to also pay for Eagle xx1 so yes I am being robbed by sram.

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    Prices are set by the buyer, not the seller.

    4 years ago when I bought my new bike, the 1x11's were just coming out. Not something I could afford at the time so I went 2x10.

    I now see where I can 'upgrade' to 1x11 for under $200, and that's for Shimano XT stuff. Probably sub $100 if one were to go with the entry level stuff.

    Yes, as you mentioned, the GX will work 99% of the time, but some people are willing to pay $$ to have that extra 1% of the time. That same argument can be applied towards ANY of the components on a bike, including frame and suspension.

    Doesn't sound like you are so don't lose sleep over it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tillers_Rule View Post
    Prices are set by the buyer, not the seller.

    4 years ago when I bought my new bike, the 1x11's were just coming out. Not something I could afford at the time so I went 2x10.

    I now see where I can 'upgrade' to 1x11 for under $200, and that's for Shimano XT stuff. Probably sub $100 if one were to go with the entry level stuff.

    Yes, as you mentioned, the GX will work 99% of the time, but some people are willing to pay $$ to have that extra 1% of the time. That same argument can be applied towards ANY of the components on a bike, including frame and suspension.

    Doesn't sound like you are so don't lose sleep over it.
    I think it's basically SRAM that is the issue. I have been looking at their guide brakes too and can't see any performance or build differences between their ultimate and their RS model. In the absence of genuine performance enhancing models they seem to just use gimmicks to double and treble the prices. It seems you pay a lot for adjustability and saving a few grams.

    The invention of new standards are just another way to keep the margins high on what are essentially very basic and cheap to produce bike parts. I mean the suspension on these bikes costs as much as motorbike suspension and trust me the motorbike suspension is far better and about 10x the build quality. It really is unjustified.

    The difference between my rolex and my bike is that my rolex will never lose value but the bike is already worth half within months!

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    The difference between my rolex and my bike is that my rolex will never lose value but the bike is already worth half within months!

    What are the performance differences between a $10,000 Rolex and a $20 Timex?
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    What are the performance differences between a $10,000 Rolex and a $20 Timex?
    The rolex will be worth 10k in 10 years time still

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    The rolex will be worth 10k in 10 years time still

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    So if I go with the Timex I'm out $20 over the course of 10 years? I wonder how much I could have made with that 10 grand had I invested it wisely?

    What about the time telling experience, is it 500x better with the Rolex?
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So if I go with the Timex I'm out $20 over the course of 10 years? I wonder how much I could have made with that 10 grand had I invested it wisely?

    What about the time telling experience, is it 500x better with the Rolex?
    Yes.

    You are buying craftsmanship and prestige. It's not comparable with bike parts. Bike parts are just a huge rip off imo. There is no performance gain to be had and the value of them after retail is next to nothing. They are almost consumable

    I mean £1200 for what is essentially the same design and components you can buy for £250. It's unjustified. The irony is that the cheaper items are actually more robust and will take abuse better than the fragile xx1.

    We are over marketed and sold the benefits when in reality there is very little benefit especially at £1200!

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    The irony is that the cheaper items are actually more robust and will take abuse better than the fragile xx1.
    Any facts to back up that claim?

    Seems like you're on the fence about buying xx1 and are just fishing for some confirmation to justify your potential purchase. Am I right?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Any facts to back that up?

    Seems like you're on the fence about buying xx1 and are just fishing for some confirmation to justify your potential purchase. Am I right?
    I like to own the best and I'm having a hard time with this drive train as I feel like I'm being conned. There has to be a value benefit for me and it's just not there. I can get 25% off list but it's still very pricey.

    It's part of a new bike build and part of my just says get gx with a better mech

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    What are the performance differences between a $10,000 Rolex and a $20 Timex?
    None for me, I haven't worn a watch for 10 years and don't miss it.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  38. #38
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    I don't want to be insulting, but I "buying prestige" is foolish IMO.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  39. #39
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    Sounds like a plan.

    I've been known to stick less expensive rear derailleurs on otherwise expensively spec'd bikes. It's still going to mess up my ride if I bang it into something or get bad enough chainsuck to tear it off. But if the cost of the part is something I shrug about, that's different than if the cost is enough to make me question whether it's worth it.

    One thing to check on with SRAM is how the pantograph pivots are designed. I managed to wear out a X9 rear derailleur several months ago. The pivots are just pins in holes in the links. X0 has bushings. That and getting it on closeout sold me. Now that SRAM has rebooted their naming scheme, I'm not sure how the new groups stack up. Also, that bike may be getting Shimano.

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  40. #40
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    Let this rant die.

    It's pretty sadly misinformed...going off of magazine reviews rather than actually using the stuff.

  41. #41
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    Weight savings on a high end group are worth it for some, as is the extra range. Not for me and a lot of others but I understand this. Extra range is a big deal for many, although for me my bikes have always had more range than I really need. Even with an 11-42 I'm never in the 11 on a trail so I'm not the target market for Eagle. I haven't had shifting that I wasn't happy with for 20 years, they are all at the point where good shifting happens. Durability and replacement cost do factor in for me. A $300 derailleur's extra durability is pointless when smashed into a rock. That said, Eagle is pretty cool and I'm happy to see product continue to advance. Next step is probably electric 12 speed for even more $ causing more coniptions across MTBR land.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't want to be insulting, but I "buying prestige" is foolish IMO.
    I bought prestige once, that was some fine steel back in the day.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I bought prestige once, that was some fine steel back in the day.
    I stand corrected.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't want to be insulting, but I "buying prestige" is foolish IMO.
    Buying a high end mountain bike could be considered foolish too.

    To me you have to justify the high price tag with some thing. Sram have a problem in that in order to reduce costs they use nearly the same parts in the top end as the low end and the performance differences are going to be minor. Take a look at the shifters and tell me where the differences are..

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Let this rant die.

    It's pretty sadly misinformed...going off of magazine reviews rather than actually using the stuff.
    How many riders will get the chance to ride xx1 and gx back to back to compare ? If you put gx on a full carbon rtc3 suspension bike would you have any idea you was not riding xx1?

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    Buying a high end mountain bike could be considered foolish too.

    To me you have to justify the high price tag with some thing. Sram have a problem in that in order to reduce costs they use nearly the same parts in the top end as the low end and the performance differences are going to be minor. Take a look at the shifters and tell me where the differences are..

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    Foolish if your reason is wanting prestige, lots of times "high end" works much better.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Foolish if your reason is wanting prestige, lots of times "high end" works much better.
    Prestige in luxury item market is different from a high end bike part.

    High end bike parts work no better than the cheaper versions In the same family. Take a look at guide brakes and tell me how the ultimate will perform better than the R or RS model.

    The GX drive train is nearly identical to xx1 other than weight.

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  48. #48
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    Giant Meteor 2016

  49. #49
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    Just got off the phone from my lbs and the price of the xo1 Eagle is £1260! The XX1 is £1360 retail!!! Higher than I'd allowed for in my build.





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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    How many riders will get the chance to ride xx1 and gx back to back to compare ? If you put gx on a full carbon rtc3 suspension bike would you have any idea you was not riding xx1?

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    Not XX1 per se, but I totally got the wrong message when SRAM was doing their demo tour with XX. That made me feel better about riding the LX/SLX/Deore blend on what was my 'A' bike at the time.

    I think plenty of people get a chance to demo the high end groups, suspension, etc. A lot of the brands do demo tours and they take high end bikes. Since it's late September, it will probably be a few months before I get another opportunity via demo tour but I wouldn't be surprised if I could rent a bike with it from one of my local shops.

    It seems like either you want us to convince you it's worth buying Eagle or you're trying to convince us it's not. But I don't think anyone here is really interested in convincing you that you should buy it, and most of us already think it's not.

    I don't agree with your assertion that bikes aren't luxury items. I don't need a bike to get to work or visit family. I don't even need as nice a bike as I have to work out. Visit a third world country and you'll see what is really needed for transportation. Ours are about having a good time. That makes them luxury items. Nothing wrong with that; it just means that there are going to be owners for whom the story is as important as the performance. And that's made halo products an important part of the market.

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
    Prestige in luxury item market is different from a high end bike part.

    High end bike parts work no better than the cheaper versions In the same family. Take a look at guide brakes and tell me how the ultimate will perform better than the R or RS model.

    The GX drive train is nearly identical to xx1 other than weight.

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    Suspension. My more expensive 36 is a better performing fork than my Pike. My CCDBA works better than a Fox Float. My XT brakes work the same as my SLX. I would pick GX if it was my bike and $.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Suspension. My more expensive 36 is a better performing fork than my Pike. My CCDBA works better than a Fox Float. My XT brakes work the same as my SLX. I would pick GX if it was my bike and $.
    Yes I'm in agreement at the moment. What about shimano versus sram?

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  53. #53
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    I don't care. I'm on 11 speed XT because I didn't want to spend $200USD to get a driver for my CK hub. As long as it shifts and stays in gear I'm happy. Suspension and tires on the other hand has a much bigger effect on my ride.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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