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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith
    It should work fine. However I have heard that a 10 speed front derailleur does not work optimally with a 9 speed crankset, I have not confirmed this though. I personally am using a 9 speed front derailleur and crankset with my system and it works great!
    You should pair the front derailleur/shifter w/ the appropriate crankset. If you're using the older 9sp cranks w/ 22t inner ring, you'll want to stick w/ the 9sp shifter/derailleur.

    Mudge

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore
    The Sram 9 speed (or other such as KMC etc..) will be too wide- I used a wipperman connex 10 speed link on my 10 speed xtr chain and it has been working great- no issues after quite a few rides...
    Either the Wipperman or KMC 10sp quick links will work just fine. I've got one of each on two different bikes, no problems whatsoever.

    Mudge

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas
    FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good.

    If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.

    According to various people here at MTBR, the new Shimano DynaSys derailleurs use the same cable travel as last year's 9 speed SRAM. So, what you need to do to be able to use RR is to convert this cable travel, using this: ShiftMate Straight model #6S, see: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm

    You will have to figure out where to locate it, and your RR mech may not like 36T rear cogs, YMMV; caveat emptor and all that...

    And no, I haven't tried it myself - this is all theoretical.
    Just wasted about $100 trying to f-ing do this conversion. Ordered the $40 shiftmate and it changed the ratio correctly but the der had a hard time shifting into the biggest cog. Seemed like if it had a stronger spring it would happen. The der is an XTR RR.

    But, just to make sure it wasn't something I was doing I took it to my LBS. What a f-ing mistake. Made me remember why I NEVER NEVER NEVER take any of my precious rides to the LBS.

    The guy didn't really understand what the shiftmate *did* and removed it (with the shiftmate the der travels over three gears per shift click) and then just spouted off some nonsense... "yah man.. i don't think it's gonna work..."

    The topper: While taking the bike off the stand he broke off the hydraulic fitting for the Rockshox Reverb seatpost. They ordered the parts and promised to repair it for me for free but I'm almost afraid to take my bike back there.

    Totes AWES!! I *love* Shimano and all their F-ing shenigans.

    I am reluctant to spend any more time or money on this but I hate top normal derailers. They suck. It's like "whoa, there is a technical/uphill/difficult section up ahead. I better take my thumb, the extremely important digit that is helping me hold on to the handlebars, and try to w-w-wwwrench the thumbshifter to a bigger cog." Makes so much sense! NOT.
    Last edited by camus; 05-12-2011 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #204
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    Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(

    You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html

    Supposedly only the "Shadow" derailleurs (DynaSys and previous) are meant to work with 36T cogs. However, my experience with Shimano road derailleurs is that one can virtually always successfully use a cog 2-6T larger than Shimano recommend.

    You could also just give up on the 36T cog and revert to 34T (or 32T).

    One of the reasons why I didn't like RR derailleurs is that IME they are generally much touchier to get working properly. As you have discovered, it doesn't take much to stop them shifting to a larger cog. Low friction cables (Gore is recommended) may help your problem, and will reduce finger effort and help shifting reliability all round.

    Of course, at some point one has to decide it's all just too hard.

    You could always try an IGH...

    PS: I used to work in the (so-called) "bicycle industry" and I would NEVER let anyone I didn't know extremely well work on my bike!!! In practice, that means I do everything except frame repairs and painting, and fork/shock service requiring specialised tools myself. Many guys are working in shops because either 1) they foolishly think it might be a cool job, or 2) they are cheap labour. Remember, you get what you pay for!

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas
    Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(

    You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html

    Supposedly only the "Shadow" derailleurs (DynaSys and previous) are meant to work with 36T cogs. However, my experience with Shimano road derailleurs is that one can virtually always successfully use a cog 2-6T larger than Shimano recommend.

    You could also just give up on the 36T cog and revert to 34T (or 32T).

    One of the reasons why I didn't like RR derailleurs is that IME they are generally much touchier to get working properly. As you have discovered, it doesn't take much to stop them shifting to a larger cog. Low friction cables (Gore is recommended) may help your problem, and will reduce finger effort and help shifting reliability all round.

    Of course, at some point one has to decide it's all just too hard.

    You could always try an IGH...

    PS: I used to work in the (so-called) "bicycle industry" and I would NEVER let anyone I didn't know extremely well work on my bike!!! In practice, that means I do everything except frame repairs and painting, and fork/shock service requiring specialised tools myself. Many guys are working in shops because either 1) they foolishly think it might be a cool job, or 2) they are cheap labour. Remember, you get what you pay for!

    Thanks for your reply. What is confounding to me is that when the cable is removed (or very very slack) the der moves to the large 36T cog just fine.

    So, yes, I did crank the B-tension screw all the way but it will not quite make it to the big cog when the cable is adjusted properly. I almost think if a stronger spring were in the der it would work. I know one used to be able to get stronger springs for Shimano ders back in the day but I have no idea about this now.

    Obviously it is not an ideal setup, mechanically. The pulley/shiftmate does what it is supposed to do but introduces just a touch of play in the cable that cannot be adjusted out.

    I am giving up at this point and just putting on the brand-new XT 10sp der. I supposed I'll be missing shifts (by shifting the wrong way) all summer but will eventually learn.

    I am still in shock that the goofball at the shop broke my reverb seatpost and there are a couple small nicks in the clear matte of my brand new Ibis Mojo... Never again will I take my bike to a shop.

    Thanks.

  6. #206
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    Given that the problem goes away when the cable is removed, the cause has to be cable friction, IME the Achilles heel of RR. Although they are undoubtedly expensive, I can highly recommend Gore cables; they will reduce friction as low as it can go, plus they are extremely well-sealed and will often work in mud/slurry that will jam normal cables. If they're not disturbed too often (and they don't need lube so they shouldn't be), they can last a long, long time. I'm still using the cable set I bought in 1997, and have changed shifters once in the meantime. Might be a bit out there but years ago SRAM used to make something called a Bassworm: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ba-n.html#bassworm which might make things work if you could track one down...

    Still, I think switching to a normal derailleur and getting acclimatised will give the better long-term result.

    Not all shops or mechanics are bad but one needs to be *very* selective! Breaking a seatpost seems a bit OTT...

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPH
    I recently fitted an XTR crankset (3 chainrings, for 10 spd system), replacing an old set of XT (3 chainrings, for 9spd system).

    I had to change the front mech to XTR 10spd and also the chain to a 10spd chain.

    My current set up that works very well is:

    Front shifter - 9-spd (sic) XTR 2008
    Front Mech - 10 spd (sic) XTR 2011 - 3 chainring
    Cranks/chainring - 10spd 3 chainring XTR 2011
    Rear Shifter - 9 spd XTR 2008
    Rear mech - 9 spd XTR 2008
    Chain - 10 spd XTR 2011

    Not buying in to all the marketing BS, but I did notice a significant different (for the the better) over the old XT in gear changes to a larger chain ring.
    Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete.
    I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must?
    Cheers
    "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordly evidence of the fact." George Elliot

  8. #208
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    I doubt you need to change the front mech. You *may* need to adjust the limit screws and cable tension a bit, but otherwise no reason I can see why it shouldn't work.

    Usually narrower chains play better with wider cogs than vice versa, but why not just try what you have and see what happens? (Hint: That's how people figure out what works.)

    Still, if you do need a new chain chances are good you'll have to replace your not-new casette as well. If you're gong to do that it might be worth thinking about getting a 10 speed cassette (assuming you have no religious objections to same) and a *road* 10 speed RH flat-bar shifter, which will work with your pre-DynaSys MTB rear mech. If you decide to go this route there is some anecdotal evidence that Shadow mechs are okay with 36T cogs but others may be limited to 34T.

    What I don't understand - and you haven't stated - is whay you might want to "upgrade" the crankset in the first place. (I'm hoping your answer isn't something like "XTR is shinier!" or "It goes to 11.") Perhaps if you told us your goal(s) we could be more helpful.

  9. #209
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    Just tried a Dyna-Sys SLX RD with X0 9spd shifters. Works just fine.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    ...

    4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.

    ...
    Will it be EXACTLY the same as using a front derailleur marked for 9 speed use? I'm eyeing a current model low clamp 10 speed Deore XT which has been priced quite cheap. Used to ignore it because I wanted to get a conventional high clamp one instead but in another thread, was advised to get a low clamp since the lowest bottle mounting bolt on the Rocky Mountain Hammer 29er is almost where the clamp on a high clamp derailleur would be.

    ps. My crankset's a Deore M590 rated for 9 speed use. Shifters are Saint M800 dual control ones.

  11. #211
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    Add to the pile:

    Just spent a frustrating evening hoping to put the finishing touches on my new Sultan. I'm building it from a mix of parts off my Enduro and the stock "Trail Kit" from Turner, including the Enduro's 9-spd XT/XTR drivetrain. However, the front derailleur I attempted to employ is from the stock build kit, a Shimano SLX DynaSys, necessary due to the top-pull only requirement for the Sultan. This setup does not work.

    Thanks for some useful info here, I can quit wasting my time and go purchase a new front derailleur.

    A question though: will a SRAM Fr Der work with XTR shifters? Or should I stick with Shimano. SRAM will fit on the Sultan without the hack-saw modification needed for Shimano.

    Thanks

  12. #212
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    Progen: It probably won't be exactly the same, but then what ever is? Should still work though. I wouldn't worry too much about the high clamp being a close fit, and you could always file the clamp a bit if there was a mm or two of overlap.

    SM: Shouldn't be any problems mixing and matching Shimano and SRAM fronts. Ibis have done this on some of their bikes due to height adjustment issues on their Mojo frames with 2x10 and smaller outer rings. It's the rear derailleurs that have the cable pull issues...

  13. #213
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    Thanks, satanas!

  14. #214
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    I just put a short cage Sram X.0 9-speed RD on my dynasis 1x10 setup. After setting the high and low limits it shifts just as well if not better than my long cage XT dynasis.
    Last edited by 2002maniac; 07-05-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #215
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    ^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed. :-)

  16. #216
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    what do you think of a sram x-o 3x9 set up with a xtr dynasys front derailleur?
    i am building a tracer 2 with a xtr m970 crank
    i have it installed but have not ridden it yet..seems like the range is not too wide on the rear without the chain hitting the front derailleur

  17. #217
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    Cannot see why it shouldn't work, although you may find it works slightly better if the front derailleur matches the chainwheel sizes.

  18. #218
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    My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.

    Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773

    Thanx!

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow View Post
    My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.

    Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773

    Thanx!
    No.
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__ View Post
    No.
    Thanx!

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    ^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed. :-)
    Hi Satanas,
    does it mean that you suggest that I can change my 9sp SRAM X9 RD with Shimano XT/SLX Dynasys10sp RD without changing my 9sp X9 shifter.?

  22. #222
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    Tnks for all the info in this post, just something i dont understand.
    Can i use a new xtr m980 28-36 crankset, with all my m970 setup?
    - cassette 11-32
    - fd and rd
    - dual shifters
    - kmc x9 sl gold ti

    I really like the great lookin of the m980 crankset.

  23. #223
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    You can, but you'll have to run a 10-speed chain (and possibly a 10-speed front der).

  24. #224
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    Tnks for your answer Frank, but putting the Correct limits in the actual fd should work? Or is really necessary the change?
    The chain isnt a problem.

  25. #225
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    38/26 t M980 XTR Chainrings on M970 XTR Cranks

    Quote Originally Posted by What&son View Post
    Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete.
    I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must?
    Cheers
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just finished converting my 2007 FC-M970 Crankset 44/32/24 to 38/26 using FC-M980 Chainrings !

    Parts Purchased ;

    FC-M980 38T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR98030
    FC-M980 26T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR26000
    FC-M800 FIX Bolts Part # Y1FB98010 only used 4 mm spacer from kit.

    M970 Chainring thickness 1.96mm
    M980 Chainring thickness 1.88mm this is only .0003 " not any differance !

    I mounted the 38t using the stock lenght M970 XTR bolts and placed the above chainrings spacer under the head to fill the gap left by the removal of thhe 44 t large chainring this has a 4 mm thickness were the bolt goes throught the chainring, then mounted the 26 tooth chainring.

    The M980 26t chainring has the exact same offset as the M970 22 or 24t Chainrings (2.1mm) Used my M970 XTR shifter and FD-970 XTR front Derailleur with only a small height adjustment. Just got back from a quick test ride and shifts great maybe a little smoother !

    The small to middle spacing is exactly the same !

    Weights 38t-79 grams / 26t -36 grams / qty Alum 4mm Spacers 2 grams for a total of 117 grams, M970 44/32/24= 156 grams / 44/32/22 = 148 grams so I saved 39 grams !

    Pictures to follow left my camera at work. Very easy 2x9 conversion with a little research for the right spacers, I tried to fine shorter bolts however I was not able to fine the short female side that would be required. I think the stock M980 FIX bolts would work exept they were $$$ 68.00 for the set !

    Still Using all the rest og my M970 XTR drive train RD-M970 and chain !
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