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  1. #176
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    Why would a 9sp rear shifter be my answer to a 10sp rear der and 10sp cassette? What about these?

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...r+Shifter.aspx

  2. #177
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    Sorry... 9s only.

    You could use Tiagra 10s Flat Bar Shifters (new Tiagra is 10s) or a 10s Dyna-Sys Shadow rear mech. and shifters (why is no Shadow on the road groups?)

    http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/n...st-look-29452/
    Last edited by kuolas; 04-19-2011 at 05:05 AM.
    G11KARX - GT Karakoram X Kai
    2-Cylinder - 1.2 HP (950W) @ 110 RPM

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuolas
    why is no Shadow on the road groups?
    Ha-ha, this could be marketed as aerodynamic improvement!
    Maybe the roadies are too attached to the timeless aesthetics of the cable loop?
    26" faithful.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by work-ed
    So I can purchase the SL-M770-10R rear shifter (non flat bar version) and it will be compatible with my 10 Speed Ultegra der?
    Dyna-Sys is the key. Finally, a buzz word that is actually useful!

    Ten speed Dyna-Sys rear derailers and ten speed Dyna-Sys rear shifters are only compatible with one another. Neither will work with any other type of Shimano component.
    29ers are just a fad, like disc brakes, suspension, indexed shifting and mountain bikes.

  5. #180
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    I had been running a dyna sys 10 spd chain with my mixed 10 spd set up (SRAM shifters and derailuers Shimano dynasys chain, crank and cassette) and it shifted like crap. It was to a point where I thought I had installed the chain backwards. Also very loud. Then I went to a bigger chainring combo and needed more chain. I had a KMC XSL10 spd chain lying around and threw it on. Shifted like a dream immediately. Night and day. Not sure if the issue was with the SRAM derailuer mixed with Shimano chain or Dynasys is no good. Seemed to me that the cassette/chain match would be more important but maybe the pulleys on the SRAM with the shimano chain was the problem. Regardless, KMC chains work well with both sram and shimano 10spd parts

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.

    For the record, I replaced the 24T Dyna-Sys XT granny with a 22T 9-spd XT granny, and it works absolutely perfectly. They even looked the same, other than having two fewer teeth. I didn't even have to adjust anything- Plug 'n Play. Well, in all fairness, the granny to middle shift was slightly slow at first, but then I noticed I had a bunch of slack in the cable. Tightened that up and no-problem. Now the gearing on my 29er is only 5% higher than on my old 26er.

    The 24T is a lot smoother when you're hauling butt, but for all-day self-supported high-vertical epics, the 22T will be great!

  7. #182
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    I was trying to go to a 2 ring setup from my 3 ring dyna sys and bought a 26t XTR granny ring. Turns out the rings (and cranksets) are specific to 2x10 and 3x10. The new granny is 2x10 specific and is off-set towards the centerline of the bike so it will not work with a starndard middle or SRAM 36t 10spd outer ring on a 3x10 crankset. When I put on the new granny with a 36t SRAM ring the throw was too long for the front derailuer so the was rubbing going on all over the place and I bet if you tried to ride it you would get the chain stuck between the rings. As if there weren't enough chainring standards already. What a pain in the ass.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastongeneral
    I was trying to go to a 2 ring setup from my 3 ring dyna sys and bought a 26t XTR granny ring. Turns out the rings (and cranksets) are specific to 2x10 and 3x10. The new granny is 2x10 specific and is off-set towards the centerline of the bike so it will not work with a starndard middle or SRAM 36t 10spd outer ring on a 3x10 crankset. When I put on the new granny with a 36t SRAM ring the throw was too long for the front derailuer so the was rubbing going on all over the place and I bet if you tried to ride it you would get the chain stuck between the rings. As if there weren't enough chainring standards already. What a pain in the ass.
    Just an FYI but you can getother 64mm bcd shimano 9 speed chain rings (XT)-

    960 and 970 cranksets have an additonal ~2.5mm of offset toward the BB and require the use of ~2-2.5mm spacers to push the middle ring toward the BB when you use any other granny ring- This is apperant when trying to use the granny (64mm bcd) ring on other cranks, the granny ring itself has a different offset than other 64mm chain rings, meaning you will need to add the same ~2-2.5mm spacers when using it on any crank other than xtr....
    It is possible your 26t XTR ring from the 980 Trail cranks has the same design and you could solve this by installing the spacers (I have the triple 980's which are the same bcd/arm as the trail cranks but have never confirmed this).

    I used a 9 speed XTR 970 crank/der with an XT 26T granny and an LX 36T Middle ring with a bash and had no issues with shifting- and it was an e-type front derailleur so no way to adjust the position. I just needed to add the spacers to the middle ring...

    Here is a thread that goes into more deatail if your interested:

    PROJECT: Converting 3X cranks to 2X
    Last edited by knottshore; 04-21-2011 at 12:22 PM.
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore
    Just an FYI but you can getother 64mm bcd shimano 9 speed chain rings (XT)-

    960 and 970 cranksets have an additonal ~2.5mm of offset toward the BB and require the use of ~2-2.5mm spacers to push the middle ring toward the BB when you use any other granny ring- This is apperant when trying to use the granny (64mm bcd) ring on other cranks, the granny ring itself has a different offset than other 64mm chain rings, meaning you will need to add the same ~2-2.5mm spacers when using it on any crank other than xtr....
    It is possible your 26t XTR ring from the 980 Trail cranks has the same design and you could solve this by installing the spacers (I have the triple 980's which are the same bcd/arm as the trail cranks but have never confirmed this).

    I used a 9 speed XTR 970 crank/der with an XT 26T granny and an LX 36T Middle ring with a bash and had no issues with shifting- and it was an e-type front derailleur so no way to adjust the position. I just needed to add the spacers to the middle ring...

    Here is a thread that goes into more deatail if your interested:

    PROJECT: Converting 3X cranks to 2X
    If I use spacers to move the outer ring in, won't this create a really bad chain line? I have an XT crankset 3x10. XTR 64 mm bcd granny ring and SRAM XO 36t outer ring

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastongeneral
    If I use spacers to move the outer ring in, won't this create a really bad chain line? I have an XT crankset 3x10. XTR 64 mm bcd granny ring and SRAM XO 36t outer ring
    You could definitely create a chain line issue...

    If you have XT cranks (I have not seen specs but not aware anything but the rings changed from mega 9 to Dyna 10 on XT cranks) and wanted to put an xtr granny ring on them you would actually need to put the spacers between the granny and the spider on the crank. Ironically if you used the XTR granny on a non xtr crank and pushed the "middle" ring out with spacers you may end up with a chain line close to a current 2X?

    Since the XO 36t ring is designed as an outer ring for a 2X (and the chainline on the cranks is definitely different) I am not too sure what the offset is nor the chain line of the XO 2X rings is and what affect it will have when installed on a 3X Crankset- but guessing it might cause additional compatibility problems (even though it is a 104bcd). Try pulling a measurement from the center of your seat tube with the original Shimano "middle" ring and then with the 36t Sram and see if they are the same or not- if they are the spacers on the granny should solve your issue. If not you may need to space the 36T (and possibly the xtr Granny as well) to get the chain line/spacing right.

    Hope this helps-
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  11. #186
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    Still no solution to 9sp rear der with 10 speed shifters/cassette?

    Just received a brand new Mojo HD and was flabbergasted to find out Shimano has discontinued Rapid Rise.

    I know there are plenty of people who disagree, but I think RR deraillers are the best thing ever.

    Is there any way at all to use a 9sp RR der with my new 10sp XT setup?

    I was researching this a few months ago and remember someone positioned the cable differently on the der to change the pull ratio, thereby making use of the 9sp der possible with 10sp shifters but I cannot find the link.

    Someone please help! I don't want to have to go back to the old style derailler!!!

  12. #187
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    FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good.

    If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.

    According to various people here at MTBR, the new Shimano DynaSys derailleurs use the same cable travel as last year's 9 speed SRAM. So, what you need to do to be able to use RR is to convert this cable travel, using this: ShiftMate Straight model #6S, see: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm

    You will have to figure out where to locate it, and your RR mech may not like 36T rear cogs, YMMV; caveat emptor and all that...

    And no, I haven't tried it myself - this is all theoretical.

  13. #188
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    Thanks Satanas! I am glad we can agree to disagree. Been riding RR ders for about 5-6 years. I think they are great. But I never ride in the rain or mud so that may be a consideration. I maintain my own bikes (thanks to getting ripped off constantly by various LBS in youth) and have had nary a problem.

    I may risk the $40 to try this out. Though I could have sworn I saw someone just flip the cable clamp on the der or something like that to adjust the amount of pull...

    Thanks again!

    Quote Originally Posted by satanas
    FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good.

    If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.

    According to various people here at MTBR, the new Shimano DynaSys derailleurs use the same cable travel as last year's 9 speed SRAM. So, what you need to do to be able to use RR is to convert this cable travel, using this: ShiftMate Straight model #6S, see: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm

    You will have to figure out where to locate it, and your RR mech may not like 36T rear cogs, YMMV; caveat emptor and all that...

    And no, I haven't tried it myself - this is all theoretical.

  14. #189
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    There are some other information resources for getting mixed systems to work too.

    Try this first: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

    Chris Juden also links to other sources, and a summary of the Hubbub technique you alluded to above. FWIW, Shimano changed the cable travel for Dura-Ace in 1997, and the then-new derailleurs had a second cable groove so that they would work with the older shifters, so it's not a new idea.

    Some of the other links I would have recommended appear to have died now, but I'm sure the one above and a bit of searching should get you started......

  15. #190
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    [QUOTE=satanas]There are some other information resources for getting mixed systems to work too.

    Try this first: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

    /QUOTE]

    Satanas.. thanks so much! That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. Are you in the Bay Area? I owe you a beer!

    Can't wait to get my Mojo HD built up and start the tinkering required to get my new XTR RR derailler (I've hoarded a couple) to work.

  16. #191
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    You're welcome! I hope it all works out for you. I've also been hoarding stuff, but in my case it's been old low-Q Ritchey cranks...

    And yes, I'm sort of near a bay, but it's called Sydney Harbour.

    I was looking at the new Mojo SLR and thinking it all looked good until I saw the new BB; shoulda been BB30 IMHO.

  17. #192
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    For Jtek Shiftmate mounting, I put mine right next the the trigger shifter (Saint M810 in my case). Had to file down the nice golden barrel a little, but the result is well worth it. I think it's the best place to mount a Shiftmate.
    26" faithful.

  18. #193
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    Rear Der: 9V Sram = 10V Dynasys

    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG
    Yes.

    Since last November I have been using a Shimano 10-sp front shifter with a Sram 9-sp RD, a Shimano 10-sp cassette, and a Sram 10-sp chain. It works because the full pull of the new Shimano 10-sp stuff is exactly the same as the full pull of the old Sram 9-sp stuff. The Shimano incompatibility engineers must have screwed up.

    Shifting has been perfect, even when I screw up and shift under load. I do a lot of steep climbing, so the system has had some abuse. Since the install I haven't even had to adjust it.

    gerG
    Yes g3rg. Yesterday I made some tests (in bike stand only) an this are the results:
    xtr 980 10V Shifter + X9 '09 9V rd + 10V cs81-10 = OK
    xtr 980 10V Shifter + SLX 9V rd + 10V cs81-10 = NOK (as expected)
    X9 '09 9V Shifter + XT 773 10V rd + 9V cs770-9 = OK
    X9 '09 9V Shifter + SLX 9V rd + 9V cs770-9 = NOK (as expected too)

    Some remarks:
    X9 rd needs a little bit longer cable lenght than shadows (dynasys or not). It's necessary to change the shifter cable to try this;
    3x10 dynasys with 11-36 cogset needs long cage rd. My X9 rd is medium and the chain was too loose in granny;
    It's necessary adjusts in h/l screws in rd and in shifter barrel to tune. This tune sounds harder for me.

  19. #194
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    what are some other options for this?

    I have a 10-spd Dyna-Sys cassette.

    Currently running an M552 crankset. I really don't need a big ring and would prefer a bashguard and chainguide. What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.

    is there anything I can do? I really like the Dyna-Sys and dont' want to swap out a complete drivetrain.

  20. #195
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    ^ Why not just buy 2 chainrings??? The sizes you want will likely be available as spares from a number of sources, i.e., TA, Stronglight, Middleburn, FSA, etc, etc - basically everyone except Shimano and SRAM.

  21. #196
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    and those won't interefere with having a 10spd chain or a 10spd cassette?

  22. #197
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    ^Does anyone know?

    I have a 10-speed chain and 10-speed cassette..what happens if i use 9-speed double crankest with bashguard? or is there a way I can buy 10 speed chainrings instead? What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski
    ^Does anyone know?

    I have a 10-speed chain and 10-speed cassette..what happens if i use 9-speed double crankest with bashguard? or is there a way I can buy 10 speed chainrings instead? What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.

    You should not have any issue - just match the front derailleur to the cranks... so keep your 9 speed no need to use 10 speed chain rings the internal width is still the same- also your front/left shifter still has the same ratio so you will only have to change your rear shifter/derailleur to 10 speed.

    Hope this helps- it is touched on earlier in the thread but it has gotten quite time consuming to navigate and get an answer-
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  24. #199
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    ^Thanks Knottshore.

    1 last question. I already have a 10sped 3ring installed with a DynaSys front shifter.

    What you are saying is that I can use 9spd 2ring crankset..but I will have to swap out my front shifter/derailleur if I do so?

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith
    You are correct. A 10 speed chain works great with a 9 speed crank and front derailleur. I actually like the 10 speed chain with a 9 speed front derailleur because it is easier to set it up so it never rubs due to the slightly wider cage.
    My experience exactly.

    I had the standard pre-DynaSys 9sp XT drivetrain on a Pivot 429. Left the front derailleur, front shifter, and cranks stock. Switched the rear derailleur, rear shifter, and chain to 10sp XT. The front shifts just like it always did, the rear shifts perfectly, too, and the chain rub issue for the front derailleur is less a problem than before as well.

    Took the pre-DynaSys XT 9sp rear derailleur, put it on my monstercross frame, paired w/ DuraAce 7800 10sp STI shifter, works perfectly as well. Using a compact crankset and 11-36 cassette, freakishly low gear for my monstercross ride.

    Mudge

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