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  1. #251
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    Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.

  2. #252
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    Thanks for the comments on the 10 speed drivetrain vs 9speed. I've decided to save some money and stick with my Deore 9 speed system.
    I have a question about the compatibility of some shifters someone gave me. They are the Shimano Deore LX, ST-M585 Dual Control Levers, for disc brakes. Can I set them up with my old brake pad system?

  3. #253
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    I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

    My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

    I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

    What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

    Thank
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  4. #254
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    Ok, here's one. I'm currently running a 1x10 setup with XT dynasys shifters and an XTR rear long cage derailleur. I'm wanting to get a short cage derailleur to help out shifting. Do I need a 9-speed or 10-speed XO rear derailleur, or does it matter? Thanks!

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

    My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

    I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

    What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

    Thank
    The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
    have fun!

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teigansdad View Post
    The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
    have fun!
    Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.

    You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?
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  7. #257
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    Most 2x10's run a 3:2 ratio, ie 24/36, 26/39, 28/42. 22-34 obviously is slightly larger than 22/33, but no enough it should make any difference.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.

    You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?
    I have run a 36X22 in the front before...works fine mechanically but for sure from a standpoint of feel...it doesn't seem to flow. Where I live I almost never use granny in cases where granny gear was useful the big jump doesn't seem to matter because I used it so rarely.
    I LOVE 38X26 . Have yet to feel like I am missing anything. Actually with the 11-36 in the back have only once gone to granny and that was in a endurance race after my legs started to cramp 4.5 hrs into it. If you are not a strong climber I am not sure I would go with a 26T as your bailout (if you are using granny a bunch now) but you would probably do just fine with a 24T granny and this would flow better. If you are not using granny much go with a 26T as granny with the 11-36 in back. I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.

  9. #259
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    I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.[/QUOTE]


    I am pretty sure the largest you can go with bash guard is 36T.

  10. #260
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    Will a SRAM XO twist front derailleur shifter work with the new 10 speed front derailleurs from SRAM and Shimano? I was wanting to use some larger rings such as a 24/36 or maybe a 26/38 on my XTR 970 9 speed crank and the new 10 speed derailleurs seem to be designed for these ring combinations.

  11. #261
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    Hi, I just messed up my 9 speed chain on a 9 speed group, i was thinking of replacing it with a 10 speed chain, will it work? o_O

  12. #262
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    Wrong tread....
    shoot me again, I ain't dead yet

    I do not have mountainbikes, I have Mountain Cycles

  13. #263
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.
    I'm not sure about the bold part. I recently replaced my old 3spd crank with a 2x10 X9 crank. I've kept the rest 9spd: Deore FD and shifters, XT RD and a KMC X9.93 chain. The shifts up front are way better than wth the old Deore tripple. I guess the chainrings are more important than the FD itself?

  14. #264
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    Ok, I've read this entire thread and now kinda numb...

    This is what I am working with:

    Sram X9 10spd RD & shifter, 10spd cassette outback

    XT 3x9spd crank & rings with X9 9spd FD

    Can I use the Sram 10spd FD shifter or do I have use a 9spd?

  15. #265
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    Any info???

  16. #266
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    Shimano and Sram front shifters and derailleurs are compatible. You can use a 9 speed FD on a 10 speed setup and vice versa, but performance will diminish slightly as the inner width of the derailleur cage is designed for the chain's width, which varies slightly for 9 and 10 speed.

  17. #267
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    Thnx

  18. #268
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    I'm going to purchase a Specialized Epic FSR 2010 Frame that comes with a 9 speed front derailleur and I'm looking to replace it with a 10 speed one. Is Shimano XT Front Mech E-Type 10sp (found on CRC) the right one ?

  19. #269
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    Thanks for the useful information on this thread. I thought I'd add my experience.

    I built up a 2002 Jekyll with a new 3x10 XT groupset this summer. The groupset came with a top swing front derailleur, which didn't fit my frame, so I ran it with the Deore 9 speed front mech that was already on the frame for a while. It worked, but shifting at the front wasn't great, especially when it got muddy.

    I've just been for my first ride after fitting a 2012 XT front mech, and shifting is better although it's still a bit reluctant to shift down into the granny sometimes. It wasn't as muddy today as it was when the 9 speed front mech was performing at it's worst, so I can't say what difference the 10 speed one will make in bad conditions yet.

    When I was swapping them I compared them, and the plates on the 9 speed one are definitely taller than on the 10 speed one. The recess in the inner plate (the one that's level with the middle chainring) is smaller too. It looks like the 10 speed one is designed for the close ratio chainrings that are part of the 10sp groupset - in fact according to the specs it isn't designed to work with any wider range than the 24/32/42 that the 10sp chainrings have.

  20. #270
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    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?
    The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-

    Good luck
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?
    Interested to hear the answer on this one.

    I ended up going 1x10, all X9, mid-cage. RD appears pretty stretched out 32t w/11-36.

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur?
    The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.

    i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason...

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.

    i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason...
    Hi there, reason I want to use XTR shifters is because I didn't think SRAM do anything in the same league for what I want? I basically want multi release and instant release and want the upshifting to be doable with index finger pull, rather than all thumbs which I thought SRAM were?

    Also not so much weight difference, was more than I thought a shorter cage aided the ability to run a tighter length chain (shorter chain) which helpded minimize chain slap. Also looks neater and gives more ground clearance so looks a more simple system to run.

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore View Post
    The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-

    Good luck
    Thanks for this but as above and earlier in the thread, some people state mixing with 9spd SRAM works hence why I asked for confirmation. Yeah, my mate has been running med cage Shimano with his 1x10 and XTR shifter for a while and loves it.

  26. #276
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    Ibis have said here: Ripley 29 | Bikes | Ibis Cycles US

    "If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."

    If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)

  27. #277
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    I currently have a 9 speed slx chain, cogs, shifters and RD.

    Is there going to have a problem when I put a dynasis crank and fd with my current setup?
    Last edited by Alpha-Q; 12-05-2011 at 03:19 PM.

  28. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    Ibis have said here:

    "If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."

    If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)
    Thanks for the info, another problem is that here in UK the m780 Shimano Rear Deraileur is hard to come by in GS (medium) and there are stock problems currently. Maybe to do with Xmas.

  29. #279
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    ^ What can I say? Xma$ux!!!

  30. #280
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    Looking for some Info!
    I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur.
    I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter.
    Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?

  31. #281
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    Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBG29 View Post
    Looking for some Info!
    I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur.
    I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter.
    Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?
    Nope. You'll need a 10 speed rear derailleur. SRAM changed the pull ratios slightly so you can't use a 9 speed derailleur with a 10 speed shifter for a 10 speed setup. However, you could use a Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur. Dynays's 10 speed pull ratio does work with SRAM's 9 speed derailleurs for a 10 speed setup.

  33. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithRaven View Post
    Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.
    Will work just fine.

  34. #284
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    Updating cranks & chain only...

    Current setup:
    2007 XT 3x10 cranks, converted to 24x36 2 ring.
    9 Spd FD and shifter
    9 Spd RD and shifter
    9 Spd 11-34 cassette
    9 Spd SRAM 981 chain

    Planning stetup:
    2011 XT 2x10 cranks, 26x38
    Keeping - 9 Spd FD and shifter
    Keeping - 9 Spd RD and shifter
    Keeping - 9 Spd 11-34 cassette
    KMC X9-XL chain

    Issues, things to consider? Thanks...

  35. #285
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    The only possible problem you might run into will be if the X9 is indeed a 9 speed chain. You might possibly run into some trouble while in the 26t ring up front. This could range from chain rub and cross chaining to the chain skipping from time to time if the wider diameter chain gets picked up by the shifting ramps. Could try it, and report back or simply go with a 10sp chain which would be my recommendation. I run a 10sp compact and 10sp chain with 9 speed shifters, fd, rd and cassette on my road bike with no problem. If you are looking for reference check out the sheldon brown website. He talks all about chain size

  36. #286
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    ^^ Sweet, thanks!

  37. #287
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    @jeepnut

    My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.

    and yes, you'd probably want to go with the 10 speed chain.

    I recommend the shimano 10 speed chain with a wipperman 10 speed chainlink for easy removal/cleaning duties.

  38. #288
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    though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.

    Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.

    Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget1 View Post
    @jeepnut

    My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.

    and yes, you'd probably want to go with the 10 speed chain.

    I recommend the shimano 10 speed chain with a wipperman 10 speed chainlink for easy removal/cleaning duties.
    Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!

  40. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepnut22 View Post
    Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!
    I think you're right to give it a go. Especially as you are running a compact up front. I would wager the worst case scenario will be how much you have to trim your inner and outer travel limit. My guess is if there is a compatibility issue it would be more likely to occur with a triple ring set up. For sure worth trying before you drop the change for front der and shifter. From my calculations that's a pair of tubeless ready tires and a bottle of stans. (:

  41. #291
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget1 View Post
    though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.

    Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.

    Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?
    I used 10s rings from blackspire on my slx 9 speed crankset. my setup: xt dynasys shifter, front and back, 9 sp xt front der. 9 s slx crank w/ 10s rings 38t and 24 t, 10s xtr chain, xt 10 s cassette and rear der. Raced all season, shifted flawless. Seemed like just a touch of cross-chaining related rub in the 38t front, 36 t rear gear combo...not enough to affect performance. I do wonder if the 10 s specific crankset would have a little better chain line to avoid this.

  42. #292
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    Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.

  43. #293
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    Maybe I missed...Is it possible that 10sp front der. works with 9sp chain, crankset is Slx FC-M665 36/22 ? Thank you!

  44. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFly3r View Post
    Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.
    That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepnut22 View Post
    That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!
    Awesome! Keep me updated.

  46. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpclydesdale View Post
    Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.

    Bzzzzt Wrong !!! But thanks for playing.

    Yes the parallelogram is different but the pull ratio is actually identical. The difference between all the eight to 10 speed shimano road and all the 9speed or less shimano mtb derailleurs (with the exception of the 7400 series dura-ace 8speed derailleur) was largely the angle that the parallelogram took as the derailleur shifted over, and how far down it then lowered the top pulley to track under increasing sizes of cogs.

    That's why the road derailleurs maxed out at a 28T maximum cog size limit where the mtb models were 34T. And that's a conservative number at that. I've used the Ultegra 10 speed 6600 and 6700 derailleurs with 32T cog cassettes just by tightening the B-tension screw in all the way. The only shimano road rear derailleur that had a different cable pull ratio than any of the mtb models were the 7 and 8 speed Dura-Ace models which had ratios used by DA and nothing else. They weren't even compatible with the other road model groups of the same time period. When DA went to 9speed, they changed the pull geometry to match the other groups but made the rear derailleur ONLY backwards compatible for older DA owners by having a 2-position cable anchor bolt position. That way older DA owners could keep buying new rear derailleurs for as long as their pre-9sp DA shifters lasted, and the rest of the road line was still at the time 8 speed so replacement chain, cassette and chainring options were going to remain plentiful.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  47. #297
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    Hi all

    I'm thinking of converting to 2 x 9 using my existing XT M770 crankset with 26/38/bash. Currently I have an XTR M970 FD but this won't fit my new frame so I need to buy a new one.

    I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.

    Would a M985 10 speed double work on a 9 speed setup and, if so, would it be a better bet? I gather it will work with the M970 shifter. I haven't bought the rings yet, so could fit 10 speed rings and chain if it would help.

    Thanks

    I haven't seen much mention of chain line in the thread above, but the M971 is designed for a 50mm chain line. Converting to double rings would effectively reduce the chain line to around 47.5mm. The M985 is designed for 48.8mm. Is 1.3mm within the bounds of adjustment?

    I could suck it and see, but it could be an expensive mistake...

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by JezV View Post
    Hi all
    I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.
    I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.

    I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems

  49. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by NielsJ View Post
    I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.

    I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems
    Thanks NielsJ. Good to know

  50. #300
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    Thanks for all the info in this thread everyone. Very helpful.

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