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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith
    It should work fine. However I have heard that a 10 speed front derailleur does not work optimally with a 9 speed crankset, I have not confirmed this though. I personally am using a 9 speed front derailleur and crankset with my system and it works great!
    You should pair the front derailleur/shifter w/ the appropriate crankset. If you're using the older 9sp cranks w/ 22t inner ring, you'll want to stick w/ the 9sp shifter/derailleur.

    Mudge

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore
    The Sram 9 speed (or other such as KMC etc..) will be too wide- I used a wipperman connex 10 speed link on my 10 speed xtr chain and it has been working great- no issues after quite a few rides...
    Either the Wipperman or KMC 10sp quick links will work just fine. I've got one of each on two different bikes, no problems whatsoever.

    Mudge

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas
    FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good.

    If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.

    According to various people here at MTBR, the new Shimano DynaSys derailleurs use the same cable travel as last year's 9 speed SRAM. So, what you need to do to be able to use RR is to convert this cable travel, using this: ShiftMate Straight model #6S, see: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm

    You will have to figure out where to locate it, and your RR mech may not like 36T rear cogs, YMMV; caveat emptor and all that...

    And no, I haven't tried it myself - this is all theoretical.
    Just wasted about $100 trying to f-ing do this conversion. Ordered the $40 shiftmate and it changed the ratio correctly but the der had a hard time shifting into the biggest cog. Seemed like if it had a stronger spring it would happen. The der is an XTR RR.

    But, just to make sure it wasn't something I was doing I took it to my LBS. What a f-ing mistake. Made me remember why I NEVER NEVER NEVER take any of my precious rides to the LBS.

    The guy didn't really understand what the shiftmate *did* and removed it (with the shiftmate the der travels over three gears per shift click) and then just spouted off some nonsense... "yah man.. i don't think it's gonna work..."

    The topper: While taking the bike off the stand he broke off the hydraulic fitting for the Rockshox Reverb seatpost. They ordered the parts and promised to repair it for me for free but I'm almost afraid to take my bike back there.

    Totes AWES!! I *love* Shimano and all their F-ing shenigans.

    I am reluctant to spend any more time or money on this but I hate top normal derailers. They suck. It's like "whoa, there is a technical/uphill/difficult section up ahead. I better take my thumb, the extremely important digit that is helping me hold on to the handlebars, and try to w-w-wwwrench the thumbshifter to a bigger cog." Makes so much sense! NOT.
    Last edited by camus; 05-12-2011 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #204
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    Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(

    You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html

    Supposedly only the "Shadow" derailleurs (DynaSys and previous) are meant to work with 36T cogs. However, my experience with Shimano road derailleurs is that one can virtually always successfully use a cog 2-6T larger than Shimano recommend.

    You could also just give up on the 36T cog and revert to 34T (or 32T).

    One of the reasons why I didn't like RR derailleurs is that IME they are generally much touchier to get working properly. As you have discovered, it doesn't take much to stop them shifting to a larger cog. Low friction cables (Gore is recommended) may help your problem, and will reduce finger effort and help shifting reliability all round.

    Of course, at some point one has to decide it's all just too hard.

    You could always try an IGH...

    PS: I used to work in the (so-called) "bicycle industry" and I would NEVER let anyone I didn't know extremely well work on my bike!!! In practice, that means I do everything except frame repairs and painting, and fork/shock service requiring specialised tools myself. Many guys are working in shops because either 1) they foolishly think it might be a cool job, or 2) they are cheap labour. Remember, you get what you pay for!

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas
    Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(

    You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html

    Supposedly only the "Shadow" derailleurs (DynaSys and previous) are meant to work with 36T cogs. However, my experience with Shimano road derailleurs is that one can virtually always successfully use a cog 2-6T larger than Shimano recommend.

    You could also just give up on the 36T cog and revert to 34T (or 32T).

    One of the reasons why I didn't like RR derailleurs is that IME they are generally much touchier to get working properly. As you have discovered, it doesn't take much to stop them shifting to a larger cog. Low friction cables (Gore is recommended) may help your problem, and will reduce finger effort and help shifting reliability all round.

    Of course, at some point one has to decide it's all just too hard.

    You could always try an IGH...

    PS: I used to work in the (so-called) "bicycle industry" and I would NEVER let anyone I didn't know extremely well work on my bike!!! In practice, that means I do everything except frame repairs and painting, and fork/shock service requiring specialised tools myself. Many guys are working in shops because either 1) they foolishly think it might be a cool job, or 2) they are cheap labour. Remember, you get what you pay for!

    Thanks for your reply. What is confounding to me is that when the cable is removed (or very very slack) the der moves to the large 36T cog just fine.

    So, yes, I did crank the B-tension screw all the way but it will not quite make it to the big cog when the cable is adjusted properly. I almost think if a stronger spring were in the der it would work. I know one used to be able to get stronger springs for Shimano ders back in the day but I have no idea about this now.

    Obviously it is not an ideal setup, mechanically. The pulley/shiftmate does what it is supposed to do but introduces just a touch of play in the cable that cannot be adjusted out.

    I am giving up at this point and just putting on the brand-new XT 10sp der. I supposed I'll be missing shifts (by shifting the wrong way) all summer but will eventually learn.

    I am still in shock that the goofball at the shop broke my reverb seatpost and there are a couple small nicks in the clear matte of my brand new Ibis Mojo... Never again will I take my bike to a shop.

    Thanks.

  6. #206
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    Given that the problem goes away when the cable is removed, the cause has to be cable friction, IME the Achilles heel of RR. Although they are undoubtedly expensive, I can highly recommend Gore cables; they will reduce friction as low as it can go, plus they are extremely well-sealed and will often work in mud/slurry that will jam normal cables. If they're not disturbed too often (and they don't need lube so they shouldn't be), they can last a long, long time. I'm still using the cable set I bought in 1997, and have changed shifters once in the meantime. Might be a bit out there but years ago SRAM used to make something called a Bassworm: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ba-n.html#bassworm which might make things work if you could track one down...

    Still, I think switching to a normal derailleur and getting acclimatised will give the better long-term result.

    Not all shops or mechanics are bad but one needs to be *very* selective! Breaking a seatpost seems a bit OTT...

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPH
    I recently fitted an XTR crankset (3 chainrings, for 10 spd system), replacing an old set of XT (3 chainrings, for 9spd system).

    I had to change the front mech to XTR 10spd and also the chain to a 10spd chain.

    My current set up that works very well is:

    Front shifter - 9-spd (sic) XTR 2008
    Front Mech - 10 spd (sic) XTR 2011 - 3 chainring
    Cranks/chainring - 10spd 3 chainring XTR 2011
    Rear Shifter - 9 spd XTR 2008
    Rear mech - 9 spd XTR 2008
    Chain - 10 spd XTR 2011

    Not buying in to all the marketing BS, but I did notice a significant different (for the the better) over the old XT in gear changes to a larger chain ring.
    Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete.
    I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must?
    Cheers
    "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordly evidence of the fact." George Elliot

  8. #208
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    I doubt you need to change the front mech. You *may* need to adjust the limit screws and cable tension a bit, but otherwise no reason I can see why it shouldn't work.

    Usually narrower chains play better with wider cogs than vice versa, but why not just try what you have and see what happens? (Hint: That's how people figure out what works.)

    Still, if you do need a new chain chances are good you'll have to replace your not-new casette as well. If you're gong to do that it might be worth thinking about getting a 10 speed cassette (assuming you have no religious objections to same) and a *road* 10 speed RH flat-bar shifter, which will work with your pre-DynaSys MTB rear mech. If you decide to go this route there is some anecdotal evidence that Shadow mechs are okay with 36T cogs but others may be limited to 34T.

    What I don't understand - and you haven't stated - is whay you might want to "upgrade" the crankset in the first place. (I'm hoping your answer isn't something like "XTR is shinier!" or "It goes to 11.") Perhaps if you told us your goal(s) we could be more helpful.

  9. #209
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    Just tried a Dyna-Sys SLX RD with X0 9spd shifters. Works just fine.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    ...

    4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.

    ...
    Will it be EXACTLY the same as using a front derailleur marked for 9 speed use? I'm eyeing a current model low clamp 10 speed Deore XT which has been priced quite cheap. Used to ignore it because I wanted to get a conventional high clamp one instead but in another thread, was advised to get a low clamp since the lowest bottle mounting bolt on the Rocky Mountain Hammer 29er is almost where the clamp on a high clamp derailleur would be.

    ps. My crankset's a Deore M590 rated for 9 speed use. Shifters are Saint M800 dual control ones.

  11. #211
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    Add to the pile:

    Just spent a frustrating evening hoping to put the finishing touches on my new Sultan. I'm building it from a mix of parts off my Enduro and the stock "Trail Kit" from Turner, including the Enduro's 9-spd XT/XTR drivetrain. However, the front derailleur I attempted to employ is from the stock build kit, a Shimano SLX DynaSys, necessary due to the top-pull only requirement for the Sultan. This setup does not work.

    Thanks for some useful info here, I can quit wasting my time and go purchase a new front derailleur.

    A question though: will a SRAM Fr Der work with XTR shifters? Or should I stick with Shimano. SRAM will fit on the Sultan without the hack-saw modification needed for Shimano.

    Thanks

  12. #212
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    Progen: It probably won't be exactly the same, but then what ever is? Should still work though. I wouldn't worry too much about the high clamp being a close fit, and you could always file the clamp a bit if there was a mm or two of overlap.

    SM: Shouldn't be any problems mixing and matching Shimano and SRAM fronts. Ibis have done this on some of their bikes due to height adjustment issues on their Mojo frames with 2x10 and smaller outer rings. It's the rear derailleurs that have the cable pull issues...

  13. #213
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    Thanks, satanas!

  14. #214
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    I just put a short cage Sram X.0 9-speed RD on my dynasis 1x10 setup. After setting the high and low limits it shifts just as well if not better than my long cage XT dynasis.
    Last edited by 2002maniac; 07-05-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #215
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    ^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed. :-)

  16. #216
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    what do you think of a sram x-o 3x9 set up with a xtr dynasys front derailleur?
    i am building a tracer 2 with a xtr m970 crank
    i have it installed but have not ridden it yet..seems like the range is not too wide on the rear without the chain hitting the front derailleur

  17. #217
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    Cannot see why it shouldn't work, although you may find it works slightly better if the front derailleur matches the chainwheel sizes.

  18. #218
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    My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.

    Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773

    Thanx!

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow View Post
    My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.

    Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773

    Thanx!
    No.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__ View Post
    No.
    Thanx!

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    ^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed. :-)
    Hi Satanas,
    does it mean that you suggest that I can change my 9sp SRAM X9 RD with Shimano XT/SLX Dynasys10sp RD without changing my 9sp X9 shifter.?

  22. #222
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    Tnks for all the info in this post, just something i dont understand.
    Can i use a new xtr m980 28-36 crankset, with all my m970 setup?
    - cassette 11-32
    - fd and rd
    - dual shifters
    - kmc x9 sl gold ti

    I really like the great lookin of the m980 crankset.

  23. #223
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    You can, but you'll have to run a 10-speed chain (and possibly a 10-speed front der).

  24. #224
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    Tnks for your answer Frank, but putting the Correct limits in the actual fd should work? Or is really necessary the change?
    The chain isnt a problem.

  25. #225
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    38/26 t M980 XTR Chainrings on M970 XTR Cranks

    Quote Originally Posted by What&son View Post
    Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete.
    I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must?
    Cheers
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just finished converting my 2007 FC-M970 Crankset 44/32/24 to 38/26 using FC-M980 Chainrings !

    Parts Purchased ;

    FC-M980 38T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR98030
    FC-M980 26T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR26000
    FC-M800 FIX Bolts Part # Y1FB98010 only used 4 mm spacer from kit.

    M970 Chainring thickness 1.96mm
    M980 Chainring thickness 1.88mm this is only .0003 " not any differance !

    I mounted the 38t using the stock lenght M970 XTR bolts and placed the above chainrings spacer under the head to fill the gap left by the removal of thhe 44 t large chainring this has a 4 mm thickness were the bolt goes throught the chainring, then mounted the 26 tooth chainring.

    The M980 26t chainring has the exact same offset as the M970 22 or 24t Chainrings (2.1mm) Used my M970 XTR shifter and FD-970 XTR front Derailleur with only a small height adjustment. Just got back from a quick test ride and shifts great maybe a little smoother !

    The small to middle spacing is exactly the same !

    Weights 38t-79 grams / 26t -36 grams / qty Alum 4mm Spacers 2 grams for a total of 117 grams, M970 44/32/24= 156 grams / 44/32/22 = 148 grams so I saved 39 grams !

    Pictures to follow left my camera at work. Very easy 2x9 conversion with a little research for the right spacers, I tried to fine shorter bolts however I was not able to fine the short female side that would be required. I think the stock M980 FIX bolts would work exept they were $$$ 68.00 for the set !

    Still Using all the rest og my M970 XTR drive train RD-M970 and chain !
    __________________

  26. #226
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    Spin Cycle, I'll take those old 22T and 32T M970 chainrings if they don't have visible wear.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    Spin Cycle, I'll take those old 22T and 32T M970 chainrings if they don't have visible wear.
    Send me a PM

  28. #228
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    Spin cycle, so you think that if i use the m980 26 -38 crankset, with all my m970 stuff, will work? Just setting the limits of the fd and maybe using a spavcer?

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noveloco View Post
    Spin cycle, so you think that if i use the m980 26 -38 crankset, with all my m970 stuff, will work? Just setting the limits of the fd and maybe using a spavcer?
    I measured everything before and after and the spacing between the chain rings is the same, as I posted the differance in the chain ring thickness is .003 if an inch ! Just got back from a 2 hour ride and no problems. I spent a good amount of time with it on the stands setting the height of my front derailluer (FD-970 low mount) currently set at 3 mm above the 38 t ring and shifting great. I should add that I all waays have run my chain line at 46.5 mm not the standard 50mm that is the stock set up for FC-M970 crank set, I just removed the center dust tube and run a .7mm spacer on the drive side and a 2.5 & .7mm on the non drive side this moved the chain ring into the frame 3.5 mm. Then add a 2 mm pedal spacer to equal it out at the pedals.

    The key is to buy the FC-800 chain ring bolts to get the 4.0 mm spacer unless you can find some really short female side bolts to mount the middle ring. It works better that I ever thought. PM me if you want .

  30. #230
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    Hello from Australia and a question...

    Hello everyone, first time on this site and I need some advice. I have decided to step out of my comfort zone and build a mountain bike. I am working on a Baum Titanium hardtail frame, medium size. I am up to the stage of trying to work out what size crankset to buy. After reading through some of the information on the posts I have established when it is stated 175mm that refers to crank arm length. I am 185 cms tall, so what length would you advise? Next question relates to bottom bracket. Does the length and width of bottom brackets vary or is it standard sizing for all mountain bikes. I am concerned that if I purchase a bottom bracket off the net, then I could be in the position of purchasing the incorrect size. If I need to get a particular size how would I determine the sizing. I know I sound like I do not know what I am doing, and you are right, but I guess that there is only one way to learn and that is from the hip pocket. I look forward to using this site for regular technical advice and if any of you guys are ever plan on coming out to OZ, please let me know as I am looking for someone to go riding with, cheers Ian

    This is what I am looking to purchase:
    Race Face Evolve Crankset SS 175mm
    Arms are net shape forged from high strength 6066 aluminum to maximize strength to weight ratio. All-Mountain strength at XC weight.
    High wearing 7075 aluminum chainrings feature extensive CNC machining for shifting accuracy and sharp looks.
    Evolve cranksets feature our 'EXI' interface external bottom bracket system for easier crank installation and removal with standard tools and fully adjustable chainline.
    Features the lightweight, forged and CNC machined CrMo steel EXI spindle.
    Bearings feature our custom triple wiper seal to better retain grease & keep contaminants out.
    Comes with the all new Race XC BB
    Bearings are factory filled with Phil Wood waterproof grease — tested & proven to extend bearing life.

  31. #231
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    ianjames9373,

    I'd go with 175 mm cranks.

    As for BB size, RF EXI type cranksets can be installed out of the box on 68 and 73 mm BB shells. Measure BB shell width on your frame, it is likely 68 or 73 mm. Also verify that the threads are English standard (left hand thread at the right side, right hand thread on the left side).
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  32. #232
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    ok i have been out of the biking scene for a while and notice this 10 speed set ups now. i have tried to read through this whole thread but just looking for some quick answer. i have a 9 speed set up right now. and planning to get a new bike with a 10 speed drive train. all i want to swap from my 9 speed to me 10 speed is my 26/36/48 crankset will this cranset be compatible with the 10 speed set up?

  33. #233
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    No. I've been down this path and it wasn't pretty. 1st I tried just running my same old 2x9 Dues XC crankset and the new 10 speed chain would get stuck in between the rings and not seat properly on the teeth. 2nd I tried changing to 10 speed rings and keeping the cranks, this just made the chain getting stuck between the rings worse. Chainring washers didn't help, because it weakened the rings and allowed them to flex. 3rd I ordered an X9 2x10 crank and F. derailleur, mounted it, and now I ride with no issues and a stiffer more direct crankset.

    Don't make the mistakes I did. Just get a complete 10 speed drivetrain.

  34. #234
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    My own kind dyna-sys

    I decided to get rid of the TOO large 44 outer on my crankset. Got a 40 outer and also thought that would´t hurt to have the same tooth diff from the small to the 32 middle so also got a 24 small. Now the drivetrain is 24-32-40. Pretty much like a dyna-sys. Note there is always a 8 teeth jump from either ring. Feels nicer. All drivetrain is 9 speed.Also got a 11-34 cogset to compensate the larger 24 granny.
    The problem came when I tried to adjust the front derailleur.(still a 9sp low clamp XTR) There was no way to get it right. Since the larger ring was way smaller I had to move the derailleur down, but then the inner cage would jam with the middle chainring. That forced me to leave the derailleur way upper than I liked and shifting was never good. But looking closer I found that a derailleur with a less tall inner cage would clear the middle ring just fine and started looking for it. I went to the LBS and started checking different derailleurs. All looked more or less like have the same problem.Then I got a XTR 10 sp dyna-sys on my hands, placed on the bike and was looking like it would clear it. Went home, installed it and...voilà! Shifts perfect (remember I use 9 sp shifters, xtr), it doesn´t rub in any combo, it drops to the small instantly (also a problem to solve with the low-clamp 9sp xtr I had before) Instant and crisp shifts. I really mean it when I say is the best adjusted derailleur I had in my 18 years of riding.
    I don´t know if it would perform tha same on a normal 22-32-44 crankset, I dunno it. But if you go the same route of trying to make your own kind of dyna-sys crankset is definitely the way to go.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)-p1040214.jpg  

    Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)-p1040216.jpg  

    Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)-p1040215.jpg  

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  35. #235
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    so what is the answer here.

    I have a 3x10 system (24,32,42) with 11-36.

    I want to change this to 2x10 w/bash (racefacelight bash) (24, 36) 11-36.

    What 36T chainring would be best for this?

  36. #236
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    how about a 10 spd rd and shifter and a 9 spd sprocket??

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.

    I know I'm dragging up an old post here, but from what you're saying, in theory you can set up a 10 speed system using the new xt/xtr front shifters with the old xo 9 speed rear mech & a 10 speed cassette.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl711 View Post
    I know I'm dragging up an old post here, but from what you're saying, in theory you can set up a 10 speed system using the new xt/xtr front shifters with the old xo 9 speed rear mech & a 10 speed cassette.
    I've just re-read the whole thread and based on what people tried and reported, 9sp SRAM rear ders are in fact interchangeable with 10sp Dyna-Sys units.

  39. #239
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    Read the whole thing as well....but couldn't find the answer to my question. Will the SRAM 10 speed chain(s) and cassette(s) work with the Shimano Dyna-Sys 10 speed RD (1x10 setup)?

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gokart2 View Post
    Read the whole thing as well....but couldn't find the answer to my question. Will the SRAM 10 speed chain(s) and cassette(s) work with the Shimano Dyna-Sys 10 speed RD? Can't exactly figure out how and why EXACTLY the Shimano chains are directional...? I know it's for "the bestest shifting in the galaxy", but thats about it.
    You should not run into any issue using the XT Dyna RD- the special profile/directional chain only affects the outside of the chain_
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  41. #241
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    Shimano XT, SLX Go 10-speed In 2010 | Cyclingnews.com
    "Chain (CN-HG94): The new HG-X 10-speed chains are directional (the right-hand side is optimised for front shifting and the left for rear shifting), so make sure you fit them with the logos on the outside. The zinc alloy plated XT version costs £34.99."

    Cant figure this out for the life of me....

  42. #242
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    2 x 9 problem in 38 x 11 combo !

    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    I measured everything before and after and the spacing between the chain rings is the same, as I posted the differance in the chain ring thickness is .003 if an inch ! Just got back from a 2 hour ride and no problems. I spent a good amount of time with it on the stands setting the height of my front derailluer (FD-970 low mount) currently set at 3 mm above the 38 t ring and shifting great. I should add that I all waays have run my chain line at 46.5 mm not the standard 50mm that is the stock set up for FC-M970 crank set, I just removed the center dust tube and run a .7mm spacer on the drive side and a 2.5 & .7mm on the non drive side this moved the chain ring into the frame 3.5 mm. Then add a 2 mm pedal spacer to equal it out at the pedals.The key is to buy the FC-800 chain ring bolts to get the 4.0 mm spacer unless you can find some really short female side bolts to mount the middle ring. It works better that I ever thought. PM me if you want .
    Adjusted everything change chain line and everything works great except the 38 x 11 , I need this 11 tooth cog on downhills and if I ready loadup the torque it slips on the cog then will catch. Tried differnet b screw setting chain line looks great and can run the 38 x 34 combo ( alot of chain angle ) that what I can't figure out as I space the chainline back out to 46.8 mm only using one 1.8 mm spacer on the drive side instead of qty 2 2.5 mm and the 38 x 11 looks great still slips any help ???

  43. #243
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    I have the 2011 XT Dynasis 3x10 system and just ordered their new 2x10 crank. My question is do I need to order the new 2x10 front derailleur and the new version front shifter that converts from 3 ring to 2 or can I run what I have and just change the limit screws on the derailleur?

  44. #244
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    WHich Chain, XTR M 980 vs. KMC X-10SL ??

    How running waht chain?? Current set up 10 speed XTR M980 38/26 cranks & 9 speed XTR M970 Cassette.
    Heard alot of good things about the KMC chains , anyone running the new 10 speed XTR chain w/ 9 speed cassette ?

  45. #245
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    Edit-

    The old XTR rear derailleur and the new Dyna Sys rear derailleur don't use the same ratio, from what I've gleaned here.

    I was hoping to use my old 9 speed shifters with the new XTR rear derailleur.

    Waaaaaaaah! Oh well...
    Last edited by Gregg K; 08-29-2011 at 12:31 PM.
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  46. #246
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    Hello

    I'm gonna ask several questions here because I can't create a new thread due to low post count so please bare with me and eventually answer my questions.

    I'm gonna purchase a Specialized Epic Comp that comes with:
    FRONT DERAILLEUR : SRAM X.7, 10-speed, S3 direct mount for DMD, bottom pull
    REAR DERAILLEUR: SRAM X.9, 10-speed, long cage
    SHIFT LEVERS: SRAM X.7, 10-speed, aluminum trigger
    CASSETTE: Shimano HG81, 10-speed, 11-36t
    CHAIN: KMC X10, 10-speed, w/ reuseable Missing Link, nickel plates
    CRANKSET: Custom SRAM S-1250, 7050 alloy arms, 10-speed triple, GXP spindle, S: 170mm, others: 175mm
    CHAINRINGS: 44A x 33A x 22S, 4-bolt, 104/64mm
    BOTTOM BRACKET: SRAM GXP, outboard bearing

    I also own a almost-new 2011 Dynasys XT transmission.

    I have no knowledge whatsoever of SRAM transmission so I wonder if my current transmission is much better than Specialized setup and if:
    1. I should swamp it all (will the crankset fit the frame? which XT front derraileur I need to buy for that frame?)
    OR
    2. Upgrade shifters and front derailleur to X9 and cassette to XT.
    OR
    3. Swap only some parts.

    Thanks in advance!

  47. #247
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    FaithRaven, I'd leave the front derailer as is and install everything XT that would fit.
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  48. #248
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    Thank you for your response.

    It is that big of a difference between the 2 transmissions ? Even if I upgrade cassette to XT, shifters and FD to X9 ?

  49. #249
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    The difference is not big enough to justify buying full XT drivetrain instead of what is on the bike, but since you already have it, why not swap?

    There is no single decisive advantage, but a sum of small ones, each gained from respective component.
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  50. #250
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    I have brain ache from reading through this over and over...just to confirm

    I have a CX bike running 10sp 105 (5600 I believe) I want to switch over to a flat bar.
    Rather than spending over $200 for the flat bar road shifters (which apparently will not work with the 105 F derailluer) , I'm hoping that I could run some 9sp LX or XT shifters for the rear & front derailluers. Correct ?

  51. #251
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    Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.

  52. #252
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    Thanks for the comments on the 10 speed drivetrain vs 9speed. I've decided to save some money and stick with my Deore 9 speed system.
    I have a question about the compatibility of some shifters someone gave me. They are the Shimano Deore LX, ST-M585 Dual Control Levers, for disc brakes. Can I set them up with my old brake pad system?

  53. #253
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    I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

    My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

    I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

    What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

    Thank
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  54. #254
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    Ok, here's one. I'm currently running a 1x10 setup with XT dynasys shifters and an XTR rear long cage derailleur. I'm wanting to get a short cage derailleur to help out shifting. Do I need a 9-speed or 10-speed XO rear derailleur, or does it matter? Thanks!

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

    My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

    I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

    What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

    Thank
    The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
    have fun!

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teigansdad View Post
    The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
    have fun!
    Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.

    You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?
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  57. #257
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    Most 2x10's run a 3:2 ratio, ie 24/36, 26/39, 28/42. 22-34 obviously is slightly larger than 22/33, but no enough it should make any difference.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.

    You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?
    I have run a 36X22 in the front before...works fine mechanically but for sure from a standpoint of feel...it doesn't seem to flow. Where I live I almost never use granny in cases where granny gear was useful the big jump doesn't seem to matter because I used it so rarely.
    I LOVE 38X26 . Have yet to feel like I am missing anything. Actually with the 11-36 in the back have only once gone to granny and that was in a endurance race after my legs started to cramp 4.5 hrs into it. If you are not a strong climber I am not sure I would go with a 26T as your bailout (if you are using granny a bunch now) but you would probably do just fine with a 24T granny and this would flow better. If you are not using granny much go with a 26T as granny with the 11-36 in back. I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.

  59. #259
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    I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.[/QUOTE]


    I am pretty sure the largest you can go with bash guard is 36T.

  60. #260
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    Will a SRAM XO twist front derailleur shifter work with the new 10 speed front derailleurs from SRAM and Shimano? I was wanting to use some larger rings such as a 24/36 or maybe a 26/38 on my XTR 970 9 speed crank and the new 10 speed derailleurs seem to be designed for these ring combinations.

  61. #261
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    Hi, I just messed up my 9 speed chain on a 9 speed group, i was thinking of replacing it with a 10 speed chain, will it work? o_O

  62. #262
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    Wrong tread....
    shoot me again, I ain't dead yet

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  63. #263
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.
    I'm not sure about the bold part. I recently replaced my old 3spd crank with a 2x10 X9 crank. I've kept the rest 9spd: Deore FD and shifters, XT RD and a KMC X9.93 chain. The shifts up front are way better than wth the old Deore tripple. I guess the chainrings are more important than the FD itself?

  64. #264
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    Ok, I've read this entire thread and now kinda numb...

    This is what I am working with:

    Sram X9 10spd RD & shifter, 10spd cassette outback

    XT 3x9spd crank & rings with X9 9spd FD

    Can I use the Sram 10spd FD shifter or do I have use a 9spd?

  65. #265
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    Any info???

  66. #266
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    Shimano and Sram front shifters and derailleurs are compatible. You can use a 9 speed FD on a 10 speed setup and vice versa, but performance will diminish slightly as the inner width of the derailleur cage is designed for the chain's width, which varies slightly for 9 and 10 speed.

  67. #267
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    Thnx

  68. #268
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    I'm going to purchase a Specialized Epic FSR 2010 Frame that comes with a 9 speed front derailleur and I'm looking to replace it with a 10 speed one. Is Shimano XT Front Mech E-Type 10sp (found on CRC) the right one ?

  69. #269
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    Thanks for the useful information on this thread. I thought I'd add my experience.

    I built up a 2002 Jekyll with a new 3x10 XT groupset this summer. The groupset came with a top swing front derailleur, which didn't fit my frame, so I ran it with the Deore 9 speed front mech that was already on the frame for a while. It worked, but shifting at the front wasn't great, especially when it got muddy.

    I've just been for my first ride after fitting a 2012 XT front mech, and shifting is better although it's still a bit reluctant to shift down into the granny sometimes. It wasn't as muddy today as it was when the 9 speed front mech was performing at it's worst, so I can't say what difference the 10 speed one will make in bad conditions yet.

    When I was swapping them I compared them, and the plates on the 9 speed one are definitely taller than on the 10 speed one. The recess in the inner plate (the one that's level with the middle chainring) is smaller too. It looks like the 10 speed one is designed for the close ratio chainrings that are part of the 10sp groupset - in fact according to the specs it isn't designed to work with any wider range than the 24/32/42 that the 10sp chainrings have.

  70. #270
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    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?
    The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-

    Good luck
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

    Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?
    Interested to hear the answer on this one.

    I ended up going 1x10, all X9, mid-cage. RD appears pretty stretched out 32t w/11-36.

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by coursemyhorse View Post
    So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur?
    The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.

    i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason...

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.

    i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason...
    Hi there, reason I want to use XTR shifters is because I didn't think SRAM do anything in the same league for what I want? I basically want multi release and instant release and want the upshifting to be doable with index finger pull, rather than all thumbs which I thought SRAM were?

    Also not so much weight difference, was more than I thought a shorter cage aided the ability to run a tighter length chain (shorter chain) which helpded minimize chain slap. Also looks neater and gives more ground clearance so looks a more simple system to run.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore View Post
    The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-

    Good luck
    Thanks for this but as above and earlier in the thread, some people state mixing with 9spd SRAM works hence why I asked for confirmation. Yeah, my mate has been running med cage Shimano with his 1x10 and XTR shifter for a while and loves it.

  76. #276
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    Ibis have said here: Ripley 29 | Bikes | Ibis Cycles US

    "If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."

    If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)

  77. #277
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    I currently have a 9 speed slx chain, cogs, shifters and RD.

    Is there going to have a problem when I put a dynasis crank and fd with my current setup?
    Last edited by Alpha-Q; 12-05-2011 at 04:19 PM.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    Ibis have said here:

    "If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."

    If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)
    Thanks for the info, another problem is that here in UK the m780 Shimano Rear Deraileur is hard to come by in GS (medium) and there are stock problems currently. Maybe to do with Xmas.

  79. #279
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    ^ What can I say? Xma$ux!!!

  80. #280
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    Looking for some Info!
    I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur.
    I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter.
    Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?

  81. #281
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    Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBG29 View Post
    Looking for some Info!
    I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur.
    I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter.
    Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?
    Nope. You'll need a 10 speed rear derailleur. SRAM changed the pull ratios slightly so you can't use a 9 speed derailleur with a 10 speed shifter for a 10 speed setup. However, you could use a Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur. Dynays's 10 speed pull ratio does work with SRAM's 9 speed derailleurs for a 10 speed setup.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithRaven View Post
    Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.
    Will work just fine.

  84. #284
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    Updating cranks & chain only...

    Current setup:
    2007 XT 3x10 cranks, converted to 24x36 2 ring.
    9 Spd FD and shifter
    9 Spd RD and shifter
    9 Spd 11-34 cassette
    9 Spd SRAM 981 chain

    Planning stetup:
    2011 XT 2x10 cranks, 26x38
    Keeping - 9 Spd FD and shifter
    Keeping - 9 Spd RD and shifter
    Keeping - 9 Spd 11-34 cassette
    KMC X9-XL chain

    Issues, things to consider? Thanks...

  85. #285
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    The only possible problem you might run into will be if the X9 is indeed a 9 speed chain. You might possibly run into some trouble while in the 26t ring up front. This could range from chain rub and cross chaining to the chain skipping from time to time if the wider diameter chain gets picked up by the shifting ramps. Could try it, and report back or simply go with a 10sp chain which would be my recommendation. I run a 10sp compact and 10sp chain with 9 speed shifters, fd, rd and cassette on my road bike with no problem. If you are looking for reference check out the sheldon brown website. He talks all about chain size

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    ^^ Sweet, thanks!

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    @jeepnut

    My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.

    and yes, you'd probably want to go with the 10 speed chain.

    I recommend the shimano 10 speed chain with a wipperman 10 speed chainlink for easy removal/cleaning duties.

  88. #288
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    though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.

    Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.

    Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget1 View Post
    @jeepnut

    My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.

    and yes, you'd probably want to go with the 10 speed chain.

    I recommend the shimano 10 speed chain with a wipperman 10 speed chainlink for easy removal/cleaning duties.
    Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepnut22 View Post
    Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!
    I think you're right to give it a go. Especially as you are running a compact up front. I would wager the worst case scenario will be how much you have to trim your inner and outer travel limit. My guess is if there is a compatibility issue it would be more likely to occur with a triple ring set up. For sure worth trying before you drop the change for front der and shifter. From my calculations that's a pair of tubeless ready tires and a bottle of stans. (:

  91. #291
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget1 View Post
    though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.

    Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.

    Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?
    I used 10s rings from blackspire on my slx 9 speed crankset. my setup: xt dynasys shifter, front and back, 9 sp xt front der. 9 s slx crank w/ 10s rings 38t and 24 t, 10s xtr chain, xt 10 s cassette and rear der. Raced all season, shifted flawless. Seemed like just a touch of cross-chaining related rub in the 38t front, 36 t rear gear combo...not enough to affect performance. I do wonder if the 10 s specific crankset would have a little better chain line to avoid this.

  92. #292
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    Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.

  93. #293
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    Maybe I missed...Is it possible that 10sp front der. works with 9sp chain, crankset is Slx FC-M665 36/22 ? Thank you!

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFly3r View Post
    Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.
    That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepnut22 View Post
    That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!
    Awesome! Keep me updated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpclydesdale View Post
    Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.

    Bzzzzt Wrong !!! But thanks for playing.

    Yes the parallelogram is different but the pull ratio is actually identical. The difference between all the eight to 10 speed shimano road and all the 9speed or less shimano mtb derailleurs (with the exception of the 7400 series dura-ace 8speed derailleur) was largely the angle that the parallelogram took as the derailleur shifted over, and how far down it then lowered the top pulley to track under increasing sizes of cogs.

    That's why the road derailleurs maxed out at a 28T maximum cog size limit where the mtb models were 34T. And that's a conservative number at that. I've used the Ultegra 10 speed 6600 and 6700 derailleurs with 32T cog cassettes just by tightening the B-tension screw in all the way. The only shimano road rear derailleur that had a different cable pull ratio than any of the mtb models were the 7 and 8 speed Dura-Ace models which had ratios used by DA and nothing else. They weren't even compatible with the other road model groups of the same time period. When DA went to 9speed, they changed the pull geometry to match the other groups but made the rear derailleur ONLY backwards compatible for older DA owners by having a 2-position cable anchor bolt position. That way older DA owners could keep buying new rear derailleurs for as long as their pre-9sp DA shifters lasted, and the rest of the road line was still at the time 8 speed so replacement chain, cassette and chainring options were going to remain plentiful.
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  97. #297
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    Hi all

    I'm thinking of converting to 2 x 9 using my existing XT M770 crankset with 26/38/bash. Currently I have an XTR M970 FD but this won't fit my new frame so I need to buy a new one.

    I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.

    Would a M985 10 speed double work on a 9 speed setup and, if so, would it be a better bet? I gather it will work with the M970 shifter. I haven't bought the rings yet, so could fit 10 speed rings and chain if it would help.

    Thanks

    I haven't seen much mention of chain line in the thread above, but the M971 is designed for a 50mm chain line. Converting to double rings would effectively reduce the chain line to around 47.5mm. The M985 is designed for 48.8mm. Is 1.3mm within the bounds of adjustment?

    I could suck it and see, but it could be an expensive mistake...

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by JezV View Post
    Hi all
    I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.
    I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.

    I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by NielsJ View Post
    I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.

    I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems
    Thanks NielsJ. Good to know

  100. #300
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    Thanks for all the info in this thread everyone. Very helpful.

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