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Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)

342K views 626 replies 237 participants last post by  chewaz 
#1 ·
I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.

1. Road 10 speed derailleurs and shifters are completely incompatible with mountain (dyna sys) 10 speed derailleurs and shifters. The cable pull by the shifters is different for both front and rear.

2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road “flat bar” 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.

3. Dyna sys 10 speed rear derailleurs cannot be used with 9 speed shifters. Road 10 speed derailleurs can be used with 9 speed shifters.

4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.

5. 10 speed road chains are different from 10 speed mountain (dyna sys) chains. The dyna sys chain is a directional chain that is made to shift better with 10 speed mountain drivetrains.

6. 10 speed road cassettes and 10 speed mountain cassette use the same sprocket spacing.
 
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#301 ·
Ok, so installation done, and it works great so far.

2x10 speed XT cranks 26x38
10 speed KMC chain
9 speed Front and Rear shifters and deraillures
9 speed cassette, 11-34

I get a little bit of rubbing when cross chaining, but ever so slight. Shifts perfect, but it hasn't gotten dirty yet. :)






 
#304 ·
Hi everyone, please help me here guys or direct me to appropriate forum thread.

I'm a newbie and starting to ride my mountain bike again.I just bought a real nice used bike a year ago. I'm not happy with the crankset and want to replace it without spending a lot of money on a whole new drivetrain. Most of the new cranksets are for 27 or 30 speed, built for 9 or 10 speed cassette. I want to know what crankset can I get that will improve my ride without replacing other components besides the crankset and cassette. I saw on Ebay SHIMANO DEORE XT M770 CRANKSET W/ BB
22/32/44T 9 SPEED and I was wondering would this would work. If so, what cassette should I get with it? Please feel free to give any recommendations. My awesome bike is:

Team Marin issued, 1990's Titanium hardtail
24 speed drive train, XT front and rear derailleurs and shifters
XTR V brakes
 
#305 ·
uraso, looks like you've got a 3x8 drivetrain. If it's still functional (chain and cassette not worn down) then I'd leave it 8-speed. A 770 crankset should fit, just be sure to have BB shell faced, because external bearing cranksets were not widespread in the 90s. You can try installing it with one 2.5 mm spacer less on drive side than the manual says, so as to get back the 47.5 mm chainline that your front derailer probably expects.
 
#307 ·
Rr?

Satanas.. thanks so much! That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. Are you in the Bay Area? I owe you a beer!

Can't wait to get my Mojo HD built up and start the tinkering required to get my new XTR RR derailler (I've hoarded a couple) to work. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Camus, did you ever get this set up to work? I to would like to go 1x10, but would strongly prefer the rapid rise rear derailer.
Thanks for any info
 
#312 · (Edited)
Satanas.. thanks so much! That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. Are you in the Bay Area? I owe you a beer!

Can't wait to get my Mojo HD built up and start the tinkering required to get my new XTR RR derailler (I've hoarded a couple) to work. :thumbsup:
Camus, did you ever get this set up to work? I to would like to go 1x10, but would strongly prefer the rapid rise rear derailer.
Thanks for any info
No, no no. I was not able to get this to work. I love Rapid Rise almost as much as I love my own dick. I ordered the pulley recommended one this forum. I tinkered with it for days. I went through three derailleur cables. And, not to brag, but after 25 years working on bikes, motos, and cars, I am no slouch in the shop.

Couldn't get it to work - almost but not quite. It would shift through the first 4 small cogs just fine then skip over a the large ones. Coming back from the large cogs it would shift just fine then skip over the middle cogs. It was aggravating, I tell you!

Then I took it to the bike shop and told them, "make it work, I don't care how much it cost"

They could not get it working. The ratio of the cable pull was wrong. It would almost work but then skip across two of the biggest cogs with one shift.:madman:

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS. Especially if you have a Mojo HD, the last generation XTR RR der, and 2011 10-speed shifters. It. Will. Not. Work.

I hope this saves someone the time and frustration that I went through. F Shimano!

I've put 20+ rides on a normal XT derailleur and it sucks. RR is so much better.:skep:

And F-ing 10 cogs? WTF? Completely unneeded. More marketing BS from the components manufacturers. A$$holes!
 
#313 ·
bar end shifters

Hey, spent a heap of time reading through all the pages on this thread however I'm not 100% sure before I make a purchase. I'm building a touring bike and didn't do my research on Dynasys and have fallen into a trap where I have bought 10 speed dura-ace bar shifters SL-BS79 to go with a SLX-660 10 speed Shimano groupset. Considering the bar end shifters are designed for road, does this...:

2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.
...mean that I can buy a 9 speed XT rear derailleur like the M771 and it will work with my shifters? My cassette is 11-36T 10 speed..
 
#314 ·
Yes, any Shimano 9 speed derailleur will work with Shimano road shifters with the appropriate number of speeds to match the cassette used (pre-1997 Dura-Ace 740x excepted). Some people have said that non-Shadow derailleurs may not clear 36T cogs on some frames, so you may be better off with either a Shadow mech or with a <36T cassette.
 
#315 ·
hey! thanks for the quick reply, very helpful as I want to get this build over and done with and it's the last thing that needs assistance. Interesting note on the shadow, I have read some comments that they don't last as long as the standard rear mech. Do you have any references to it? I can't seem to bring anything up on google
 
#316 ·
Sorry, I've not used or worked on the Shadow mechs myself, just reporting what others said here at mtbr re clearing 36T cogs; cannot say anything re durability or anything else, but the comment on 36T cogs stuck in my head. It seemed to be the only good reason to use one to me, but I prefer closer ratios and am hoping to stick with 34T or less anyway. Good luck. :)
 
#320 ·
new 10 speed crank with 9 speed group?

This thread has been a wealth of knowledge but I haven't quite found a definitive answer to my situation.

I have all 9-speed XT on my bike, in a 2x9 configuration. I'd like to replace the cranks with a new XT M785 2x10 crankset, but of course Shimano says it's incompatible. What about this setup wont work?
 
#321 ·
This thread has been a wealth of knowledge but I haven't quite found a definitive answer to my situation.

I have all 9-speed XT on my bike, in a 2x9 configuration. I'd like to replace the cranks with a new XT M785 2x10 crankset, but of course Shimano says it's incompatible. What about this setup wont work?
Just to throw my experience your way, I did something fairly similar last year. I had a 9spd drivetrain with Race Face cranks. I swapped out my RF cranks with a new XTR M985 double, a 10spd chain, and a 2x10 front derailleur. Shifters, cassette and rear derailleur remained 9spd with no issues :thumbsup:

Hope that helps.
 
#323 ·
Thanks for the input guys. Yea I've seen a few people running 10 speed cranks with their 9 speed systems but only after also switching to a 10 speed chain. (jeepnut22 on this page for example)

Is there a reason for this or could I stick with my fairly new 9 speed chain? I guess I don't get what makes this crank "incompatible" with 9-speed as shimano says, is it the chainring spacing on the spiders? The gear size? The width of the teeth?
 
#325 · (Edited)
Do you have the model number of the shifters you used (not sure if you already had the SL-BS79 shifters or were just looking at them) and are you running the shifters in index or friction mode? I am currently trying to set up a drive train for a CX bike I am building and would love to run an 11-36 rear cassette with the same RD you are running and put the bar end shifters on some RetroShift brake levers along with a road-triple FD and 22-32-44 9-speed front crank. Also, do the front and rear shifters move the same direction to shift to a higher or lower gear? I ran into opposite shifting with the barcons on my road bike (front went full down for lowest chainring, rear went full up for largest cog). Ended up having to swap in a rapid-rise RD to reverse the shifter direction.

Thanks.
 
#327 · (Edited)
Thanks for the clarification and pointer on the BS78s, scored a set of used 78's off of eBay. Having the friction mode would be a nice fall back. With the RetroShift setup, having the opposite shifting might not be a big deal:



But I'll have to think about that and if needed, use a Rapid Rise RD. Actually the RR is nice because you get better shifting into larger cogs.

I found on my road bike that I could not get used to the opposite shifters..When I would come up to a steep climb, I would push the front shifter down to get the smallest chain ring and then I kept pushing down the rear shifter and that put it into the smallest cog instead of the biggest one. Then I needed to try and shift back to the large cog while in the middle of the climbl. That and the fact that I found I hit the rear shifter when it was sticking out (in the big cog) with my knee if I stood up to climb a steeper pitch on the hill. Now with the RR rear, both shifters are down (and out of the way) when climbing.

But since I am planning to put the shifters on the brake levers, no chance of hitting them with the keens any more. Just need to figure out if having both levers facing inward for say lowest gear or having both levers facing to the right for lowest gear is better. I'm leaning towards having the opposite throw since that way pushing say with the thumb on both hands shifts to say a higher gear and pushing with a finger goes to a lower gear. That is how I have my touring bike set up with friction mode bar-top thumb shifters and it seems quite natural. I think for that I'll need the Rapid Rise RD.
 
#328 ·
I've gone through a lot of this thread and have gotten confused by all the iterations that have been suggested. :madman: Mine is (I think) simple:

Bike is 100% 9-speed right now. I want a new crankset: I can get a better deal on a 3x10 crankset than on the same model's 3x9 version. Changing nothing, can I expect this to work? Thanks for anyone who knows this answer, and apologies if I missed this somewhere in the 14 pages of the thread.
:thumbsup:
 
#329 ·
Here's my understanding, since I asked almost the same question but with a double crank not a triple crank. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The new 10 speed uses a closer chainring spacing up front, so you'll never get perfect alignment using 9-speed derail and shifter with 10-speed crank. A double ring setup can get around this through use of the limiter screws, since there's only two gear positions.

I don't quite understand what Shimano changed, but you'll need to get either a new front derail or a new front shifter, hopefully someone else can chime in on this. You may also need a new narrower 10 speed, too.
 
#332 ·
I had some guys on here tell me the 9 speed raceface crank i ordered would not work with my bike unless i did a full blown ninespeed conversion. Well they said it wouldent line up, it would shift wrong or slower and i would need a new chain. So i took my bike and the new crankset into the professionals, they did some measurements and told me to pick it up tommarow. Took it for a test ride around the parking lot and it was better than it was before. Not to mention a lot lighter. Youll be alright.
 
#337 ·
Question on the 10 speed Shimano chains. Is there much of a difference from say the HG-54 to the SLX HG-74 to the XTR HG-94 to the XTR M980 chains? Seems to be about a 2X range in price and about 17 grams in weight across the range. Is there any difference in shifting between those chains and how about life time, like to the more expensive ones last a longer or shorter time than the lower cost ones?
 
#338 ·
I apologize if this question has been covered. I tried to skim this thread to find an answer but was unsuccessful.

I need to find a direct mount front derailleur for a bike with a full XT 9 speed drive train. I'm using only the 22/32T rings. The bike is a Banshee Paradox with short chain stays and the tail of my XT 771 derailleur is perilously close to the tire. The 10 speed two ring derailleurs like the XT FD-M786-D have much shorter cages.

The question therefore is: Can I succesfully use the 10 speed front derailleur with my 9 speed cranks, chain and shifter? Maybe someone has had experience with this combination.
 
#340 ·
Good to know I'm not the only one with 2/10 3/9 compatibility issues


I have a 3/9 setup in my enduro, but I'm thinking to buy a 2/10 set of shifters (xx) and a 10sp RD (x0). I'll also buy the 10sp cassette and chain....

But I have doubts on the crankset.... I have a 3 ring setup (22/32/44) but I want to get rid of the 44t ring and put a bash instead, and use a 36-38 middle ring.

Can I use the 2/10 front shifter with my 2 ring setup??
Will I have to change the FD from a 9sp to a 10sp??
Or I'll have to change the cranks and FD??

Thanks.....

PS: I know the 3 rings cranks use a 104 bolt pattern and the 2/10 ones seems to use a different one.... Is possible to find bash guards with the 2/10 bolt pattern ??
 
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