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Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)

342K views 626 replies 237 participants last post by  chewaz 
#1 ·
I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.

1. Road 10 speed derailleurs and shifters are completely incompatible with mountain (dyna sys) 10 speed derailleurs and shifters. The cable pull by the shifters is different for both front and rear.

2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road “flat bar” 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.

3. Dyna sys 10 speed rear derailleurs cannot be used with 9 speed shifters. Road 10 speed derailleurs can be used with 9 speed shifters.

4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.

5. 10 speed road chains are different from 10 speed mountain (dyna sys) chains. The dyna sys chain is a directional chain that is made to shift better with 10 speed mountain drivetrains.

6. 10 speed road cassettes and 10 speed mountain cassette use the same sprocket spacing.
 
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#229 ·
I measured everything before and after and the spacing between the chain rings is the same, as I posted the differance in the chain ring thickness is .003 if an inch ! Just got back from a 2 hour ride and no problems. I spent a good amount of time with it on the stands setting the height of my front derailluer (FD-970 low mount) currently set at 3 mm above the 38 t ring and shifting great. I should add that I all waays have run my chain line at 46.5 mm not the standard 50mm that is the stock set up for FC-M970 crank set, I just removed the center dust tube and run a .7mm spacer on the drive side and a 2.5 & .7mm on the non drive side this moved the chain ring into the frame 3.5 mm. Then add a 2 mm pedal spacer to equal it out at the pedals.

The key is to buy the FC-800 chain ring bolts to get the 4.0 mm spacer unless you can find some really short female side bolts to mount the middle ring. It works better that I ever thought. PM me if you want .
 
#230 ·
Hello from Australia and a question...

Hello everyone, first time on this site and I need some advice. I have decided to step out of my comfort zone and build a mountain bike. I am working on a Baum Titanium hardtail frame, medium size. I am up to the stage of trying to work out what size crankset to buy. After reading through some of the information on the posts I have established when it is stated 175mm that refers to crank arm length. I am 185 cms tall, so what length would you advise? Next question relates to bottom bracket. Does the length and width of bottom brackets vary or is it standard sizing for all mountain bikes. I am concerned that if I purchase a bottom bracket off the net, then I could be in the position of purchasing the incorrect size. If I need to get a particular size how would I determine the sizing. I know I sound like I do not know what I am doing, and you are right, but I guess that there is only one way to learn and that is from the hip pocket. I look forward to using this site for regular technical advice and if any of you guys are ever plan on coming out to OZ, please let me know as I am looking for someone to go riding with, cheers Ian

This is what I am looking to purchase:
Race Face Evolve Crankset SS 175mm
Arms are net shape forged from high strength 6066 aluminum to maximize strength to weight ratio. All-Mountain strength at XC weight.
High wearing 7075 aluminum chainrings feature extensive CNC machining for shifting accuracy and sharp looks.
Evolve cranksets feature our 'EXI' interface external bottom bracket system for easier crank installation and removal with standard tools and fully adjustable chainline.
Features the lightweight, forged and CNC machined CrMo steel EXI spindle.
Bearings feature our custom triple wiper seal to better retain grease & keep contaminants out.
Comes with the all new Race XC BB
Bearings are factory filled with Phil Wood waterproof grease - tested & proven to extend bearing life.
 
#231 ·
ianjames9373,

I'd go with 175 mm cranks.

As for BB size, RF EXI type cranksets can be installed out of the box on 68 and 73 mm BB shells. Measure BB shell width on your frame, it is likely 68 or 73 mm. Also verify that the threads are English standard (left hand thread at the right side, right hand thread on the left side).
 
#232 ·
ok i have been out of the biking scene for a while and notice this 10 speed set ups now. i have tried to read through this whole thread but just looking for some quick answer. i have a 9 speed set up right now. and planning to get a new bike with a 10 speed drive train. all i want to swap from my 9 speed to me 10 speed is my 26/36/48 crankset will this cranset be compatible with the 10 speed set up?
 
#234 ·
My own kind dyna-sys

I decided to get rid of the TOO large 44 outer on my crankset. Got a 40 outer and also thought that would´t hurt to have the same tooth diff from the small to the 32 middle so also got a 24 small. Now the drivetrain is 24-32-40. Pretty much like a dyna-sys. Note there is always a 8 teeth jump from either ring. Feels nicer. All drivetrain is 9 speed.Also got a 11-34 cogset to compensate the larger 24 granny.
The problem came when I tried to adjust the front derailleur.(still a 9sp low clamp XTR) There was no way to get it right. Since the larger ring was way smaller I had to move the derailleur down, but then the inner cage would jam with the middle chainring. That forced me to leave the derailleur way upper than I liked and shifting was never good. But looking closer I found that a derailleur with a less tall inner cage would clear the middle ring just fine and started looking for it. I went to the LBS and started checking different derailleurs. All looked more or less like have the same problem.Then I got a XTR 10 sp dyna-sys on my hands, placed on the bike and was looking like it would clear it. Went home, installed it and...voilà! Shifts perfect (remember I use 9 sp shifters, xtr), it doesn´t rub in any combo, it drops to the small instantly (also a problem to solve with the low-clamp 9sp xtr I had before) Instant and crisp shifts. I really mean it when I say is the best adjusted derailleur I had in my 18 years of riding.
I don´t know if it would perform tha same on a normal 22-32-44 crankset, I dunno it. But if you go the same route of trying to make your own kind of dyna-sys crankset is definitely the way to go.
 

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#240 ·
Read the whole thing as well....but couldn't find the answer to my question. Will the SRAM 10 speed chain(s) and cassette(s) work with the Shimano Dyna-Sys 10 speed RD? Can't exactly figure out how and why EXACTLY the Shimano chains are directional...? I know it's for "the bestest shifting in the galaxy", but thats about it.
You should not run into any issue using the XT Dyna RD- the special profile/directional chain only affects the outside of the chain_
 
#246 ·
Hello

I'm gonna ask several questions here because I can't create a new thread due to low post count so please bare with me and eventually answer my questions.

I'm gonna purchase a Specialized Epic Comp that comes with:
FRONT DERAILLEUR : SRAM X.7, 10-speed, S3 direct mount for DMD, bottom pull
REAR DERAILLEUR: SRAM X.9, 10-speed, long cage
SHIFT LEVERS: SRAM X.7, 10-speed, aluminum trigger
CASSETTE: Shimano HG81, 10-speed, 11-36t
CHAIN: KMC X10, 10-speed, w/ reuseable Missing Link, nickel plates
CRANKSET: Custom SRAM S-1250, 7050 alloy arms, 10-speed triple, GXP spindle, S: 170mm, others: 175mm
CHAINRINGS: 44A x 33A x 22S, 4-bolt, 104/64mm
BOTTOM BRACKET: SRAM GXP, outboard bearing

I also own a almost-new 2011 Dynasys XT transmission.

I have no knowledge whatsoever of SRAM transmission so I wonder if my current transmission is much better than Specialized setup and if:
1. I should swamp it all (will the crankset fit the frame? which XT front derraileur I need to buy for that frame?)
OR
2. Upgrade shifters and front derailleur to X9 and cassette to XT.
OR
3. Swap only some parts.

Thanks in advance!
 
#249 ·
The difference is not big enough to justify buying full XT drivetrain instead of what is on the bike, but since you already have it, why not swap?

There is no single decisive advantage, but a sum of small ones, each gained from respective component.
 
#250 ·
I have brain ache from reading through this over and over...just to confirm

I have a CX bike running 10sp 105 (5600 I believe) I want to switch over to a flat bar.
Rather than spending over $200 for the flat bar road shifters (which apparently will not work with the 105 F derailluer) , I'm hoping that I could run some 9sp LX or XT shifters for the rear & front derailluers. Correct ?
 
#296 ·
Bzzzzt Wrong !!! But thanks for playing.

Yes the parallelogram is different but the pull ratio is actually identical. The difference between all the eight to 10 speed shimano road and all the 9speed or less shimano mtb derailleurs (with the exception of the 7400 series dura-ace 8speed derailleur) was largely the angle that the parallelogram took as the derailleur shifted over, and how far down it then lowered the top pulley to track under increasing sizes of cogs.

That's why the road derailleurs maxed out at a 28T maximum cog size limit where the mtb models were 34T. And that's a conservative number at that. I've used the Ultegra 10 speed 6600 and 6700 derailleurs with 32T cog cassettes just by tightening the B-tension screw in all the way. The only shimano road rear derailleur that had a different cable pull ratio than any of the mtb models were the 7 and 8 speed Dura-Ace models which had ratios used by DA and nothing else. They weren't even compatible with the other road model groups of the same time period. When DA went to 9speed, they changed the pull geometry to match the other groups but made the rear derailleur ONLY backwards compatible for older DA owners by having a 2-position cable anchor bolt position. That way older DA owners could keep buying new rear derailleurs for as long as their pre-9sp DA shifters lasted, and the rest of the road line was still at the time 8 speed so replacement chain, cassette and chainring options were going to remain plentiful.
 
#252 ·
Thanks for the comments on the 10 speed drivetrain vs 9speed. I've decided to save some money and stick with my Deore 9 speed system.
I have a question about the compatibility of some shifters someone gave me. They are the Shimano Deore LX, ST-M585 Dual Control Levers, for disc brakes. Can I set them up with my old brake pad system?
 
#253 ·
I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

Thank
 
#255 ·
The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
have fun!
 
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