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  1. #1
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    Drive train problem when back peddling.

    I'm having a problem sorting this out.
    If I back peddle my chain will droop down to my chain stay before it draws up again.
    It doesn't do it on the two larger gears on the cassette but will get progressively more and more droop as I drop down to the smaller gears.

    I've checked and cleaned the chain, cassette, chain rings, and derailleurs and the derailleur cogs, biskets.
    They all seem fine, no tight links, no badly worn teeth, rear derailleur looks well aligned with the chain. (Hanger does not look bent) and the cage is straight.
    I know I don't need to back peddle but what gives with this slow chain take up?
    I searched the forum but had no luck finding and answer.
    Any help is much appreciated.

  2. #2
    WickedVT3
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    you checked the derailer COGs huh? you mean the pulleys. well all of this sounds good to do but most mechanics will tell you never to clean your chain. i lube mine up once or twice a month with white lightning a wax based lubricant. trust me when i first started riding i was obbsessed with washing my bike with the hose and degreasing it then regreasing everything. till i found out im just wasting my time and probably causing more internal problems that i couldnt see. about your hanger you cant tell by looks alone there is a tool for the test its simple and takes almost no effort most mechanics will do it for free if you are a regular customer. as for the chain i think the chain and cassette are your problem.

    1 edjucated guess number 1 is the chain is too long.
    2 edjucated guess number 2 chain and cassette are old and warn out, the chain and cassette should always be purshased and installed together they need to wear evenly together or they will not work properly and you just wasted your money buying one at a time. the chain is probably the biggest problem but i wouldnt suggest just buying a chain, go grab a sram chain and cassette from any local bike shop you should be able to haggle the set out of them for 40 bucks. and they will install it for free. once your done doing that watch some manufaturer tutorials on how to adjust your index and front derailers.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the info WickedKillerV.
    Cog's LOL Sorry bout that. I guess I'm a bit old and out of touch with names of mtb parts.
    The XT Cassette and chain were replaced last year at the same time I put the new wheels on. Chris King and Mavic A-Syms.
    I'll give removing a link from the chain a try.
    Thanks for the tip about cleaning. I usually back peddle the chain through a rag held in my other hand then relube.

  4. #4
    WickedVT3
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    nothing wrong with doing that, yah its probably the chain then. im just trying to help. have you upgraded anything lately?

  5. #5
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    Thanks and I do appreciate your help.
    No upgrades other than a different seat.
    Everything ran fine last season it just started acting up this month.
    You may have hit it on the head with the chain. It's possible that it has stretched. I do a fair amount of climbs. I can pick up a chain gage and check. If it's stretched in 1 1/2 seasons that will be a bummer.
    Is sram a more durable chain and cassette than XT?

  6. #6
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    Your King hub likely needs service, one of the first symptoms will be slow take up of chain when back-pedaling (or if you spin your wheels up to speed and your cranks want to keep turning instead of stopping when you stop turning the cranks). Service instructions on the King site. Very normal, just need a cleaning and relubing.

    I find Shimano chains very reliable, not a lot of difference among the better quality chains from Shimano or SRAM or others. To measure stretch simply take a 12" ruler and see if pin-to-pin distance has increased more than 1/16" of an inch over the 12" (new would be exactly 12"), at which point it's time to replace (if over 1/8" of an inch you might need to look at new cassette/chainrings as well).

    Derailleur cogs I figured out, but what the heck are biskets?
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the reply Bikinfoolferlife.
    I just measured the chain pin to pin it's still at 12".
    Looks like I'm going to need some high price tools to sevice my hub.
    Oh well ya gotta pay to play.
    LOL I'm afraid I picked that turm (Bisket) up from the mechanic at my LBS he's older than I and I'm nearly 60.
    I should know better than to have posted that.
    According to his (My old LBS Mech.) train of thought, anything that is more or less round and flat and can fit in your hand but your not sure what it's called, he calls a bisket.

  8. #8
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    sounds like your freewheel/freehub is not spinning as freely as it should be

    --> overhaul

  9. #9
    WickedVT3
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    awwww sorry to hear that you ran into worse problems, and it depends on who you ask about the difference in quality on the sram and shimano components. good luck.
    depression hits losers the hardest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomatic
    Thanks for the reply Bikinfoolferlife.
    I just measured the chain pin to pin it's still at 12".
    Looks like I'm going to need some high price tools to sevice my hub.
    Oh well ya gotta pay to play.
    LOL I'm afraid I picked that turm (Bisket) up from the mechanic at my LBS he's older than I and I'm nearly 60.
    I should know better than to have posted that.
    According to his (My old LBS Mech.) train of thought, anything that is more or less round and flat and can fit in your hand but your not sure what it's called, he calls a bisket.
    You don't need the King hub tool to do a basic service, read the instructions again. If you have a standard rear hub axle all you need is two 5mm allen wrenches and a pen knife or similar to pry up the seal in the way of tools (the hub cone adjuster thing is nice, but your fingers can do the same job). Some WD-40 and replacement King lube are the other ingredients, if you have a King hub this should be your minimum arsenal (but I do recommend getting the full tool setup to do everything needed). If you have a good shop they should have all of the tool set necessary (but many don't fyi).


    ps If you have the HD axle, then adjustments require a different allen wrench and it's even easier.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedKillerV
    you checked the derailer COGs huh? you mean the pulleys. well all of this sounds good to do but most mechanics will tell you never to clean your chain. i lube mine up once or twice a month
    That's insane. Metal to metal and you think a chain does not need to be cleaned?
    Any Mech that talks crap like that has no understanding AND needs to find a job at the local McD's. You can go many or 1 ride per clean depending on where you ride. IF you replace your running gear quite often then you may be happy to grind away and make SURE you really need to replace the parts before a reasonable time has passed.
    How often do you ride? How often does he ride? How far? What product?
    Without this type of information you cannot possibly suggest how often he needs to oil the chain Some products only last a few hours per application before they start to break down. Understanding the subject is the key to offering good advice

  12. #12
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    I went back and read the CK hub service guide again. I see what your saying.
    Two 5mm allen wrenches, a pick and order the correct lube. I'm all set. For now anyway.
    First bike with a freehub so I'm slow to catch on but it will all work out fine.
    Just takes a bit more care than a freewheel takes.
    But it does engage much faster. Well worth the extra effort.
    My LBS doesn't have much to offer in the way of tools.
    He has a chain break, a hammer, two spoke wrenches and a bigger hammer.
    Oh, and a real good assortment of biskits.
    Thanks to every one for their help and replies.
    You all have helped this old guy get back out on the trails.
    Good riding everyone. No Endo's

  13. #13
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    Well, disassembled the hub. Cleaned as per CK's web site instruction's and no luck. I put the wheel on my wife's bike and the chain still sags when I back peddle. Her bike has all of ten miles on it so now I'm sure it's gotta be a problem in the hub. Looks like I'm ordering bearing's and the big $ tool. Unless anyone has any other ideas. Wish me luck I'm going broke.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomatic
    ... Looks like I'm ordering bearing's and the big $ tool. Unless anyone has any other ideas. Wish me luck I'm going broke.
    don't go broke spending money on hub bearings. they have zero effect on your problem.

    the problem has got to be in your freewheel/freehub mechanism, or possibly in your rear derailleur.

    make sure your derailleur cage is straight and parallel with the cogs, and that the derailleur pulleys are clean, spin freely, and offer no resistance. have your shop remove the derailleur, and use a hanger gauge to verify that the derailleur hanger is not bent. it is also conceivable that totally weakened derailleur return springs could contribute to the problem.
    boki rides a clark kent from 1994
    and a vw R32 from 2004

  15. #15
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    Derailleur pulleys are the number 1 most common cause of your problem.

  16. #16
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    I noticed my chain drooping when backpedaling this morning, so I had a quick look and determined that my rear derailleur (RD) wasn't lined up with the gear the chain was on. If I pedaled forward a few times, the RD realigned and then there was no more droop when backpedaling. For me, this means my RD is a little dirty in the pivots and needs to be cleaned to decrease the friction and move better. You may want to check this out on your RD.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomatic
    Well, disassembled the hub. Cleaned as per CK's web site instruction's and no luck. I put the wheel on my wife's bike and the chain still sags when I back peddle. Her bike has all of ten miles on it so now I'm sure it's gotta be a problem in the hub. Looks like I'm ordering bearing's and the big $ tool. Unless anyone has any other ideas. Wish me luck I'm going broke.
    Can't comment until I know exactly what you did during your servicing....particularly interested in whether you serviced only the hub bearings or the freehub bearings as well...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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