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  1. #1
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    Complete LX-group compared to XT and SRAM X.9?

    Hi,

    I went to my LBS today to talk about the drivetrain/brakes on my new Santa Cruz Blur (with Fox fork).

    He told me that the new updated Shimano LX-group (with dualcontrol and discbrakes) was "almost or just as good" as the XT-group or SRAM X.9 with Race Face Evolve crank and some Avid brakes.

    His argument for people who were using XT was the "bling-bling-factor" and the brand.

    Do you think it would be a bad idea to get the full LX-group (maybe with XT rear der.) instead of XT? It would save a ton of money, that I could use on a better wheelset (Mavic Crossmax instead of mt Mavic Crossland).

  2. #2
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    My thoughts

    In that you're putting these components on a high end bike, I would say go with the XT. With that said, I have a bike with LX f/r derailleurs and it functions fine. While you could use the money to buy a better wheelset, ask yourself a few questions. First has to do with drivetrain performance. Does this "New LX" have the benefits of trickle down technology from late model XT components? If so, what is the real difference in performance between the new LX and the New XT. If you can get some measurable answer to that question, then it's a matter of how much the difference in cost is relative to difference in performance. Only you can really decide the value between the two. The second question has more to do with why the LBS is steering you in the direction of the LX. If the person who recommended the LX to you is a trusted source, then this factor is nil.

    The LX shifter, LX hydro brakes, LX f/d and XT r/d is a very respectable combo, and if the savings here pays for upgraded wheelset, then I don't know that you can go wrong.Bottom line is that I say you should buy the best components you can afford.

    I hope I haven't made the situation more confusing.

    Bob
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  3. #3
    Chrome Toaster
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    Yeah in many respects thats not too far off. LX has come a long way and is almost as good as its more expensive groups. Really the main difference now is LX parts are still a bit clunky and heavy compared to XT or XTR but in terms of performance you should hardly notice any difference if you don't care about the weight.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasDK
    He told me that the new updated Shimano LX-group (with dualcontrol and discbrakes) was "almost or just as good" as the XT-group or SRAM X.9 with Race Face Evolve crank and some Avid brakes.
    Are you in a race? Is shifting one millisecond faster important enough for the expense? For some people it really is (racing, quick transitions, etc.)

    LX is a champ, it just lacks the bling factor. If you want bling, cheat, and get an XT rd as that is all that a snobs will look at.

    Kinda similar, I have 105 on my road bike, I don't race so it don't matter. Sweet shifting machine, got some blinger Campy wheels and the comments come rollin in.

    Here is what is key, IMHO, make them judge you by your riding.

    Mr. P

  5. #5
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    I havent raced yet, but I'm planning on starting next spring. My cycling is a bit on standby this winter.

    I dont relly care about weight, but ofcourse, everybody wants as light a bike as poissible.

    Do anyone knows what the weight difference is bewteen the complete LX and XT group? With discbrakes.

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasDK
    Do anyone knows what the weight difference is bewteen the complete LX and XT group? With discbrakes.
    Depends, in some cases it's virtually nil between components, and with others it's pretty big.

    XT cassettes ~260g, LX around 300-320g. XT cassettes are very nice, worth the $$.

    LX derailers are usually around 300g, vs about 240 for XT. Biggest difference is the weight, is that important or not?

    LX cranks are a bit heavier, but sometimes you can make up the difference buy buying lighter rings when the stock ones wear out. XT cranks may be stiffer and may be made of a different alloy, but the current LX hollowtech II cranks are miles better than the old hollowtech 1 XTs. Bit price difference here too. Again, a definite weight difference, but maybe not worth it.

    XT vs LX front derailer? Nil. I find the pivots of the XT sometimes last a little longer, but front derailrers are cheap enough that I say go with LX.

    I use LX shifter pods. These are as light or lighter than XT, work just as well IMO. I don't see much point in the XTs here, unless you are using dual control or something.

    I don't know enough about the new brakes, but I'd wager that the LX ones work exactly the same as the XTs mechanically. Maybe the rotors are a little heavier? I don't know, but I doubt the LX ones are crappy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  7. #7
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    I think the difference in performance between a Crossmax wheelset and a Crossland wheelset will dwarf the performance gap between XT and LX components. I would shift sweet with the LX and roll sweeter with the Crossmax!

  8. #8
    rad to the power of sick
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    Although this is beating a dead horse....


    Do XT rear, der (sealed bearings vs bushing on LX)
    LX front der (absolutely no difference other than the anodizing on the XT)
    LX crankset (steel inner ring is far more durable than the aluminum on the xt)
    - Both these cranksets are exceptionally stiff. If you think theres flex, its likely frame flex
    youre noticing.
    XT shifters (more durable and more precise than the LX based on 2 sets Ive gone through)
    XT cassette (much lighter and more durable)

    I run this set up on a SC superlight and it does me fine. Invest the money you save into a set of Bontrager Race Lite tubeless' then you're set.

  9. #9
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    I'm not sure exactly how much the weight difference is between XT and LX but I doubt the total weight of both groups is more than ~200g extra for the LX. The weight drop by getting the Crossmax wheels will be substantially better and its rotational weight which can be felt more. I would recommend you at most get the XT cassette and maybe rear derailleur. The LX cassette has no aluminium spider so its substantially heavier than the XT. The most significant part of the LX groups extra weight is located on the cassette.

  10. #10
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    LX groupset is the best value for money IMO...

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasDK
    Hi,

    I went to my LBS today to talk about the drivetrain/brakes on my new Santa Cruz Blur (with Fox fork).

    He told me that the new updated Shimano LX-group (with dualcontrol and discbrakes) was "almost or just as good" as the XT-group or SRAM X.9 with Race Face Evolve crank and some Avid brakes.

    His argument for people who were using XT was the "bling-bling-factor" and the brand.

    Do you think it would be a bad idea to get the full LX-group (maybe with XT rear der.) instead of XT? It would save a ton of money, that I could use on a better wheelset (Mavic Crossmax instead of mt Mavic Crossland).
    I think the LX groupset is the best value for money (Best for price-concious consumers). I agree that most people opt for XT, even more XTR for "bling-bling factor" - I think the main difference is weight especially on cranksets. But some components such as shifters and rear derailleurs would perform better, or at least longer if you opt for the XT/XTR. My ideal combo would be:

    Crankset: LX HollowTech II
    Shifters: XT (Dual Control)
    FD: LX (bottom-swing)
    RD: XT (if you can afford XTR, go for it but XT does the job real fine) AND get an AVID "Rollamajig"!
    Brakes: "Parallel-Push" V-Brakes / Avid BB7 Disc if ya want to run discs.
    Chain: HG73

    I think you would have saved large amounts of money by getting a cheaper crankset and mechanical disc brakes (cheaper maintenance (if any), excellent braking, best modulation)

    Good idea on spending savings on better wheelset...

    Any comments?

    Thx
    Last edited by Mervyn_b; 12-29-2005 at 01:11 AM.

  11. #11
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    Just my opinion but I would stay away from Dual Control.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by coombs
    I think the difference in performance between a Crossmax wheelset and a Crossland wheelset will dwarf the performance gap between XT and LX components. I would shift sweet with the LX and roll sweeter with the Crossmax!
    First up lets address this......... the CroassLAND wheelset weighs 2074 grams, the CrossMAX SL wheelset weighs 1685 grams (389 grams diff) - that's a lot of weight savings there which will as said more that make up for what you gain going LX over XT and rotational weight is the weight you want to get rid of for the bike to feel responsive.

    What I said above pretty much sums it up, but I'll go further. The heaviest components are the crankset and the LX is only 67grams heavier than the XT, and I have heard is stiffer. The weights on the rest of the stuff wil be miniscule at best and although the XT has abit longer life I think that if the money you save (could be around $200-$300) will get you a better, lighter wheelset go for it. Ride the LX stuff till it wears and upgrade to XT then.

    My Trance3 came w/ LX derailers and shitty RF RideXC and it's worked very well, I have however upgraded to XT cranks and FD. I had though put over 1500 miles on my bike before I did any of these upgrades, so the componenets did last quite a while and I still have them as back-ups since they aren't worn out.
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  13. #13
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Ditch The Cookie Cutter Wheels All Together

    Do yourself a favour and have a set of wheels HAND BUILT. They will be more durable and you can hit the weight of Crossmax or less for less than the price of the Crosslands.
    Plus Mavic wheels are a huge pain in the butt to deal with if you ever have problems and you aren't near a service center. I buddy of mine has regularly had to wait 6 weeks for work to be done on his Crossmax
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  14. #14
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    nm...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    Longevity and resale value would influence me to go with the xt train. <-my 2 cents
    Last edited by Fisty; 12-29-2005 at 06:55 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Just my opinion but I would stay away from Dual Control.
    Any particular reason? Been using XT dual's on my Blizzard and I love them, really. No problems whatsoever. I admit, they haven't been exposed to rough usage though.

  17. #17
    GO JIMMIE!!
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    I tend to stay away from DC because of several reasons. I don't like the way the DC shifters/levers move, I prefer a brake lever that is stiff with no up and down play and that only serves to pull on. I also don't like that idea that if you have DC you must use Shimano everything else. Triggers for me, SRAM triggers maybe soon.

    Just my opinion.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    I tend to stay away from DC because of several reasons. I don't like the way the DC shifters/levers move, I prefer a brake lever that is stiff with no up and down play and that only serves to pull on. I also don't like that idea that if you have DC you must use Shimano everything else. Triggers for me, SRAM triggers maybe soon.

    Just my opinion.
    Looks like it's a matter of preferences. I like both D/C and both seperate brake/shifter levers. It's true though that they aren't compatible with SRAM D/C levers matched with X.9/X.0 derauilleur's would have been rather cool i think.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekracer8000
    LX front der (absolutely no difference other than the anodizing on the XT)
    According to Shimano, the spring is also different. They say that the spring on the XT will last longer and maintain the same force for a longer period of time.

    One other thing to consider is the price difference between the LX and XT front derailleur. The XT is only a few dollars more than the LX, so even with only a few minor differences, it still seems worth a few extra dollars (about 3 when I checked) to get the XT.

    Larry

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