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  1. #1
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    Chris King rear hub problem

    Hey everyone,
    I have been having lots of problems with my King rear hub. More specifically, the chain sags VERY badly every time I pedal backwards. I called King and they told me to do the following:
    -clean the chain thoroughly, and make sure it's short enough
    -make sure there are no chainline problems
    -increase the B-tension on the rear derailleur, to the max if need be
    -take the rear hub apart and clean the cart bearings in the hub shell out with WD40 and an air compressor until there's no dirt left inside
    -then fill those same cart bearings with a 2/3 fill of King's own Ringdrive lube
    clean the helical splines on the Ringdrive mechanism, and lube them with a moderate amount of Ringdrive lube
    -put everything back together
    I have followed these instructions as scrupulously as possible, and even gone above and beyond the call of duty by getting an extra long B-tension screw to further increase derailleur tension.
    My hub still has so much drag that the chain comes off when I backpedal. This and my biggest gear is a 32-11! I want to put a 42-11 on, but the bike is unrideable even in the 32-11 because of drag, and drag gets worse with every gear increase.
    Does anyone know what I should do besides buy a new LX hub for $40?
    And yes, my rear hub has been ridden for the specified 100hr break-in period.
    Thanks for any help.
    Tim
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  2. #2
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    Could it be the derailleur?

    The derailleur should be responsible for maintaining adequate tension in the chain. Perhaps the spring is getting a bit worn? I could be (and probably am) way off base here, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Clyde
    The derailleur should be responsible for maintaining adequate tension in the chain. Perhaps the spring is getting a bit worn? I could be (and probably am) way off base here, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

    Bob
    Hey Bob,
    The derailleur is in impeccable condition. It's a short cage XT. Thanks for the idea.
    Tim
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  4. #4
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    Maybe try adjusting the tension on the hub via the adjusting cone (the little piece that screws into the axel next to the bearing...see the ck manual for a picture). My CK rear had tons of drag and my chain line would do the same thing you are describing. I readjusted the adjusting cone per some great instructions by Tscheezy and that seemed to do the trick. Read his post here.

    Hope this helps!

    FB

  5. #5
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    I'd agree that if everything has been cleaned and lubed properly it's your preload adjustment to play with...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  6. #6
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    In addition to pre-load it sounds liek your chainline doesn't promote backwards pedaling anyway. You are back pedaling in 32/11? Try 32/28

  7. #7
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    what crankset do you have? new x-type cranksets have a horrible chainline (50mm) and causes problems such as you describe.

    Can you feel any drag in the freewheel when spinning it, taken off the bike?

    My 1st King hub had a little drag in the beginning but got real smooth after a few hours of riding.

  8. #8
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    The bearing preload, if made any looser, causes the hub to wobble. I am running the absolute minimum.
    It is not my habit to backpedal in the 32-11 at top speed, but sometimes it does happen, and a 300 dollar hub should not have any drag- with a Shimano LX hub, which costs a sixth of what the King does, you can backpedal in the 44-11 and have no such problems. With the 300 King hub, such problems are inconscionable.
    I have the "older" style XT Octalink crankset, so chainline should not be an issue.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  9. #9
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    Shouldn't buy hubs based on your preconceptions about how easy it should be to back-pedal by how much it costs (nor assume they need less service than a Shimano for the same reasons)...the ring drive isn't as friendly to backpedalling as some other designs (and those other designs do not engage as well or as quickly for the more important function of driving the wheel forward). While the ability to backpedal isn't high on my priority list, a CK hub that isn't set up right or hasn't been properly serviced can bind and cause difficulty when back-pedalling, or even coasting, some take longer than others to break in too.

    Just how are you setting preload? You don't specify what you are doing to set it (basically you want to set the preload to no play then back off a bit to account for compression from the quick release). Do you have the standard axle/adjusting cones?

    So you're running a double chainring setup? Did you get a longer bb spindle to improve your chainline for a double? What is your chainline now? You sure you have no issues due to chain length or with your short cage derailleur?

    Since you had to ask CK about the service instructions you should have received with the hubs, or could have downloaded in the first place, I wonder what you were doing before you asked CK for advice, too (and hopefully you do have more in the way of service instructions than those mentioned in your post). Are the hubs only 100 hrs old? You said you are having lots of problems but only mention the backpedalling thing, what else is wrong?
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikinfoolferlife
    Just how are you setting preload? You don't specify what you are doing to set it (basically you want to set the preload to no play then back off a bit to account for compression from the quick release). Do you have the standard axle/adjusting cones?

    So you're running a double chainring setup? Did you get a longer bb spindle to improve your chainline for a double? What is your chainline now? You sure you have no issues due to chain length or with your short cage derailleur?

    Since you had to ask CK about the service instructions you should have received with the hubs, or could have downloaded in the first place, I wonder what you were doing before you asked CK for advice, too (and hopefully you do have more in the way of service instructions than those mentioned in your post). Are the hubs only 100 hrs old? You said you are having lots of problems but only mention the backpedalling thing, what else is wrong?
    I adjust the preload just as you have described it: make it so there's no play when it's not on the bike, then back the adjuster ring off a shade, a little bit of trial and error is involved.
    I have the standard lockring setup, not the allen one.
    I have ridden the hubs for well over 100 hours. I know a lot of drag in the beginning is normal, but this late in the game I don't consider it to be.
    The hubs don't have any other problems.
    I am running a 118mm bb spindle and XT Hollowtech 2 cranks, not the normal 113mm. I don't see how this would make too much difference. I am running a 22-32, and if I ran the normal 113mm bb, the inner two rings would be where they normally are; with the 118mm bb I am using, they are about where the middle and big ring would be. That is to say, whatever length bb I am running, the chainrings are within the normal range of where they should be. I would think running a double would actually be less problematic than a triple since the distance between the largest and smallest ring on a double is smaller than the same distance on a triple, i.e., the chainline with a double chainring setup should vary less and cause fewer problems.
    The only weird thing about the bike is that the chainstays are 16".
    The chain is as short as it gets while still allowing me full use of all gear combos.
    Maybe you're onto something with the short cage derailleur causing some problems- it's something I didn't think would cause any problems. Excuse my ignorance, but could you tell me how a short cage derailleur might contribute to this problem? Road bikes use short cage derailleurs, too, but King makes road hubs, as well, so it doesn't seem to me like that should be a huge issue.
    I don't need to be able to backpedal super fast, but I should be able to backpedal in the largest gear I want to without being afraid the chain's gonna drop from excess sag. And my biggest gear's really not that big- it's a 32-11.
    Hopefully I didn't come across as a sarcastic a$$ in my other posts, I am just getting fed up with pricey parts that require a ton of fiddling before they start working they way I want them to out of the box. $350 is a lot of money for something which has worked so inadequately so far.
    Thanks for the tips so far.
    Last edited by uphiller; 05-26-2005 at 06:55 PM.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller
    Hey everyone,
    I have been having lots of problems with my King rear hub. More specifically, the chain sags VERY badly every time I pedal backwards...
    tim, i had the same problem, its your free hub bearing, allot of new or newly serviced hubs will have this problem.
    heres what you do;
    remove drive shell(cassette does not need to come off) by removing the non drive side part of the axle and pre load cone. pull on cassette, firmly and drive shell will pop out.
    the free hub bearing is the largest one showing on drive side. remove snap ring carefully w/ sharp object(careful not to damage rubber seal below) remove the rubber seal. add 3-6 drops of tri-flow teflon based lube evenly spaced around the inside of bearing.
    aggetate bearing w/ fingers to mix tri-flow w/ existing grease, this reduces grease thickness and allows hub to freewheel better. add 3 drops of tri-flow to the teeth of ring drive so it disengages faster when u stop pedaling. replace rubber seal and snap ring, re assemble hub and spin wheel backwards to help blend in tri-flow. now go put some miles on it and the condition will improve w/ use.
    if you are riding in cold conditions 30 or lower i recommend you use only mobile 1 instead of kings ring-drive lube wich is normally to thick for even normal conditions.
    good luck

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghj018
    tim, i had the same problem, its your free hub bearing, allot of new or newly serviced hubs will have this problem.
    heres what you do;
    remove drive shell(cassette does not need to come off) by removing the non drive side part of the axle and pre load cone. pull on cassette, firmly and drive shell will pop out.
    the free hub bearing is the largest one showing on drive side. remove snap ring carefully w/ sharp object(careful not to damage rubber seal below) remove the rubber seal. add 3-6 drops of tri-flow teflon based lube evenly spaced around the inside of bearing.
    aggetate bearing w/ fingers to mix tri-flow w/ existing grease, this reduces grease thickness and allows hub to freewheel better. add 3 drops of tri-flow to the teeth of ring drive so it disengages faster when u stop pedaling. replace rubber seal and snap ring, re assemble hub and spin wheel backwards to help blend in tri-flow. now go put some miles on it and the condition will improve w/ use.
    if you are riding in cold conditions 30 or lower i recommend you use only mobile 1 instead of kings ring-drive lube wich is normally to thick for even normal conditions.
    good luck
    Bingo. Doing all that should help out a great deal. IF it doesn't work, contact King and see about getting some new seals. I had a similar problem with a hub which I put up with for two years...I would partially disassemble it, do the lube trick and it would never quite go away. Finally, I got fed up and pull the hub completely apart. Turns out it was assembled with an incorrectly oriented spacer under the spring. Once I flipped the spacer, my problems were solved.
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