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  1. #201
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    Good review.. I do like the stuff... the only thing I have to disagree with is the heating/soaking comment
    Quote Originally Posted by Aba Grizzly View Post
    Here I also want to make some marks. I've read here a couple of people who advised to leave it overnight or lube with a heated lube. I strongly advise against it. This lube is an oil-based and not a miracle fairy stuff - it doesn't stick magically to the metal and just stays there. The more you'll leave it on the surface to penetrate - the more of the lube will just flow down and soak the paper underneath it, the less will stay on the chain itself. The same applies to heating. I'd stick in this case to Francis' advice and give it 20-40 minutes depending on the temperature in the room. That'll be enough.
    here's why,
    heating or soaking isn't to get it to "stick" but to get it inside. especially when you really strip the chain with cleaner. The stuff is VERY thick and if you just drip it on cold it's not going to wick inside to the bearing area as well or as fast. I actually Heat & Soak. not drip it on where like you said it drips right thru but soak it in one of those cheapo Glad or other brand little lunch containers. put the stripped clean chain in the container and cover with warmed oil and let sit in the sun.

    thou in your climate I'm guessing the temps are already higher so the oil is much thinner to begin with bring it to the same consistency I get with warming it....

    (Oh and thinking about it, It remembers me I gotz to order me more of the stuff)
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    The stuff is VERY thick and if you just drip it on cold it's not going to wick inside to the bearing area as well or as fast.
    For me it settles in 10 minutes on cold. Then wipe the chain and I'm ready to ride.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    BTW- just for the record, I never promised a miracle, just better lubrication with less effort.
    Hi Francis.

    I meant neither disrespect, nor making a claim you said/wrote it. It's just here and there I see stories that some guys get 200-300 miles out of 1 lubing. Now here I think that their will to assist you in sales and advertise makes actually a bad job for Chain-L, 'cos it causes people to anticipate more then the product capable of, and when they don't get their anticipation - they start to loose faith in the product and spread bad reviews.

    For example, my friend, the one that I've given him one of the samples. He's an experienced rider with good mechanic sense. He does all the maintenance by himself, including tuning and upgrading forks, shocks etc. When he heard I'm bringing him the Chain-L sample, he was really ecstatic, because he'd read so many great things about it, including that Chain-L stuff is enough for 250-300 miles on one lubing. Now, we're talking about the guy, that is totally aware of what different kinds of lube do and don't do, and how many kms you can get out of any kind of lubes. He got his sample, applied it, needed to reapply after 60 or 70 kms (just two rides). Now his expectations were so high, that after he got this result, which is way better then his prolink gold with something potion, that he actually ended up disappointed.

    That's what I meant, I had no intentions to disregard Chain-L as a product or question your words.

    I get 60 to 80 kms out of one lubing in my harsh conditions. I believe you can get up to 160 kms on one lubing on hardpack without any dust and sand. I find it not reliable, when someone writes he's got 300 miles on dusty roads or singletracks without grinding noises.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    Good review..
    Thanks

    The thing I've written came out of personal experience. I agree that the general temperature here are higher then anywhere else, but actually I lube inside the house, and the temperature here is around 24-28 degrees Celsius (don't know Fahrenheit).

    I tried both ways. I lubed it and left it for a night to penetrate. What I've found in the morning, is that lot of the lube actually under the chain and not in it. After wiping I went riding and this was the only ride, when I had to degrease-relube just after one ride, 'cos it started to be noisy almost immediately after the first powder bath.

    The second way, I lubed and left it in the sun to penetrate (the temperature of the metal in the sun can get around 70-80 degrees Celsius, when you actually can burn yourself when you touch the metal). This was also one of the shorter periods between relubing. I got something like 40 to 50 kms before I had to relube.

    So as my personal experience in my conditions shows to me - no heating and no leaving overnight, 'cos both of the actions do shorten the life of the lube...

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aba Grizzly View Post
    Hi Francis.

    I meant neither disrespect, nor making a claim you said/wrote it. It's just here and there I see stories that some guys get 200-300 miles out of 1 lubing. Now here I think that their will to assist you in sales and advertise makes actually a bad job for Chain-L, 'cos it causes people to anticipate more then the product capable of, and when they don't get their anticipation - they start to loose faith in the product and spread bad reviews.
    I agree completely, which is why I wanted to be clear that i don't make these claims. Nor do I claim it's a miracle product or night and day better that other lubes out there.

    To me winning a race by 5 seconds is no different than winning by a minute, winning is winning and that's good enough.

    I try to under claim and over deliver for the reason that you mention, regardless of what the actual difference is I'd rather that new users were pleasantly surprised that it beat their expectations, than disappointed that it didn't.
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomllama View Post
    ....

    here's why,
    heating or soaking isn't to get it to "stick" but to get it inside. especially when you really strip the chain with cleaner. The stuff is VERY thick and if you just drip it on cold it's not going to wick inside to the bearing area as well or as fast.
    Heating isn't necessary, and doesn't improve penetration which will be at 100% in 20 minutes or so at room temperature. As we developed CHAIN-L we had versions that were thicker yet and needed to be heated to wick in. We carefully backed the viscosity down to where we had reliable penetration at 60 or a bit less. So most people would get no benefit by heating except faster wicking. However in the winter, it's important to let the bike come up to 60 before or after applying because it won't wick effectively into a cold chain.

    While we're at it, heating the oil is of little benefit, because it rapidly comes to the chain's temp on contact. If you want to get the benefits of heating, it's better to warm the chain after applying CHAIN-L. This is analogous to warming the joint, not the solder when soldering.

    I read all kinds of voodoo practices about applying CHAIN-L but I've been using it longer than anybody, have tried a variety of methods, and nothing beats applying to a clean chain, waiting for it to soak in, and wiping off excess.

    When applying it to a new chain laid out on a table, I use aluminum foil underneath rather than paper because, like Aba Grizzly, I've found that paper draws some of the oil back out of the chain if I leave them in contact too long.
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  7. #207
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    Chain lube is always an interesting topic with a lot of subjectivity. FWIW, what was said in an earlier post about dust/grit being the main cause of wear...I concur with that premise.

    Any of you guys familiar with chain-saw chain lube? Very similar characteristics to what has been reported of Chain-L, ie thick and sticky. I used to make my own version of saw chain lube out of motor oil and STP. Worked like a champ. The difference (bike/saw) is the lube is constantly injected onto the chain to keep the chain lubed and to flush out debris, not so on a bike.

    I'm not here to cast dispersions on any product, however ANY oil based product will provide a medium for an abrasive slurry on a bike chain in a relatively short time. That abrasive slurry may or may not make it into the "internal bearing" surfaces of the chain, but it certainly will get between the teeth of the chain ring, cog set, and jockey wheels. Personally I'm more concerned about chain ring/cog set wear than the chain because of the replacement cost. The XX1 chain is about $60, but the chain-ring is $100 and the cog set is $400, so I would much prefer to replace a chain.

    That said, I use a combination of a popular wax based product and a proprietary extreme pressure dry lubricant, with very good results. I also water spray the drive train after every 2-3 dry rides and every muddy ride, then re-lube. After 400 miles of AM riding and muddy conditions on my current set, chain-ring/cog-set show very minimal wear. Not a scientific study by any means, but I'm very happy with the system.

  8. #208
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    The forces working on a chain/cog/chain ring are not even near the forces working on chainsaw chain, because our human body is incapable to produce even 1000 rpm. We can do hardly 100. Also the periods between relubing the chain in any conditions is too short for any significant wear to occur. That's why this kind of wear is not something I would be worried about...

  9. #209
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    Well, yet another use for Chain-L is discovered.

    Recently, I made my wife's bike as a playground for servicing/repairing/tuning tutorial. It's a 2011 Haro Shift R5, single-pivot with RS Ario shock. This time, I serviced RS Ario by myself. For learning purposes. So I opened it, and found out, that RS use Red Rum grease as a lube (I didn't know that, but I do know now). Apparently, I don't have this kind of grease, since my main bike has Fox suspension all around. So I decided to add 3ml of Chain-L to the main chamber, in order to lube it.

    Now this RS Ario is a low-budget, low performance, very basic 120mm shock, which NEVER been good. It does some simple and basic job. Well, after adding Chain-L it became more vigorous, it responds better and even makes more comfortable rides on some rocky 4X4 paths.

    Just to share with all of you, folks.

  10. #210
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    Another input. I'm continuing to use Chain-L - got through 3/4 of the bottle. I have a quarter of the bottle left - I've passed 1100 kms since I got it in August 2013. The Chain-L appears to be much-much better now, when it's winter and the singletracks are dust-free. It lasts more then 100 km between I totally have to relube it. I'm applying it now on XTR chain vs XT chain. Somehow, XTR chain stays cleaner than the XT chain.

    Also, I've compared Chain-L vs some transmission oil+grease formula, which provides very good lubing results, but hugely, enormously messy. I got back to Chain-L from that reason - it's much cleaner after all.

  11. #211
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    What do you do if you have no choice but to apply this stuff when it's cold out?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    What do you do if you have no choice but to apply this stuff when it's cold out?
    Heat the chain a little, that'll do it.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aba Grizzly View Post
    Heat the chain a little, that'll do it.
    Thin it out with some solvent on hand.

    Most chain oils are of similar base ingredients but include a solvent base in order to thin the oil out so it can get inside the chain.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    What do you do if you have no choice but to apply this stuff when it's cold out?
    My goal in developing Chain-L was to have a long enough service life, so that there would be little or no need to apply under bad conditions in the field.

    However, it depends on how cold is cold. Chain-L doesn't freeze, but it's ability to flow and wick into a chain drops tremendously when the chain is cold (below 60F).

    You can apply it to the cold chain then use a hair drier to warm the chain and "melt" it in. It's sort of like sweat soldering.

    Note, warming the oil in the bottle probably won't do much good because it's chill on contact with the chain and not wick in.

    Normally I oil my chain outdoors so I don't have to worry about minor spills. When it's cooler I oil outdoors, then bring the bike inside overnight. In the morning, the chain appears as if there's no oil, none has dripped under the bike, so I know it's all absorbed, and a quick wipe of the outside is all I need.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Thin it out with some solvent on hand.

    Most chain oils are of similar base ingredients but include a solvent base in order to thin the oil out so it can get inside the chain.
    I strongly advise against it, mixing Chain-L with any solvent will greatly reduce the quality of the oil and also will vastly shorten the period between the lube application.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aba Grizzly View Post
    I strongly advise against it, mixing Chain-L with any solvent will greatly reduce the quality of the oil and also will vastly shorten the period between the lube application.
    It's OK to thin Chain-L with an appropriate solvent, such as naphtha which will evaporate fairly quickly and completely, returning the remaining oil to the pre-thinned state. So the oil will be OK, but less will remain than if you applied it straight, and that will definitely worsen wet performance and service interval.

    Thinning Chain-L makes it sort of like ProLink, or many home brews which many are happy with. So while it's not within the Chain-L philosophy, it's better than nothing.

    BTW- When experimenting with thinner versions, I found much less solvent than people generally use is needed. I thin it with only about 30% solvent, rather than the 3 or 4 to 1 solvent/oil rations many use.
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  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    So the oil will be OK, but less will remain than if you applied it straight, and that will definitely worsen wet performance and service interval.
    Hi Francis,

    That's what I meant - what's the point in using Chain-L, if you make it thinner? And the use of solvents reduces the life of the lube very much - I have experienced it, when I didn't wash the chain after degreasing, applied the lube, and was forced to re-apply after 10 or so kilometers, when I normally get 60 to 80 in dry conditions, and over 100 in wet.

    By the way, I've ordered another bottle, hope you've seen the order )))))

  18. #218
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    Problem is I can't bring the chain inside, too dirty, and the bike won't fit inside.

    How long does the chain have to stay warm? I was thinking of putting it in a plastic bag, holding it under my clothing for a while, then taking it out and oiling it. But it would get cold quick.

  19. #219
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    Isn't it easier to take it home, clean it and reapply the lube at home? Should be much better this way than taking cold-ass piece of metal under the clothes...

  20. #220
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    There would be no place to oil it at home. Can't take it inside by itself, too dirty and no place to lube it, and can't take the bike inside.

    I wonder if lubing it outside, then putting it in a bag under clothes would work best.

  21. #221
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    Oh, and just for note, you may want to put the 60 degree temp thing on the instructions. I think that's why it hasn't worked so well for me lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    I wonder if lubing it outside, then putting it in a bag under clothes would work best.
    Sounds like it can work. At least that's what I'm doing when I'm putting a chain for storage (apart of under the clothes thing) - I lube it, put it in a plastic bag and forget about it. When I need it, I just take it out, it lubes itself while sitting in a bag.

  23. #223
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    How do you guys clean the excess off?

    I used it on my road bike...and no matter how many times I wiped the chain...after each ride...the chain would come back a gunked mess.

    I stopped using it because it was a sticky mess no matter how many times I would wipe the chain.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    How do you guys clean the excess off?

    I used it on my road bike...and no matter how many times I wiped the chain...after each ride...the chain would come back a gunked mess.

    I stopped using it because it was a sticky mess no matter how many times I would wipe the chain.
    rubbing alcohol.. moisten (not soaked) a rag and run it over the chain.. do it after the 1st 2-3 rides and you're good.. I ride in beach sand often and doing that keeps it from sticking to my drive train...

    I have stated to use a mix of a orange type cleaner mixed with the alcohol.. about 4 parts alcohol to 1 part cleaner.. VERY important not to soak the rag.. you don't want to liquid to squeeze out and into the bearings...!!
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    How do you guys clean the excess off?

    I used it on my road bike...and no matter how many times I wiped the chain...after each ride...the chain would come back a gunked mess.

    I stopped using it because it was a sticky mess no matter how many times I would wipe the chain.
    Quick wipe with a rag after each ride - clean the chain, pulleys and chainrings. Two rides after the initial application - and the chain and the system are acceptably clean.

  26. #226
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    Thx!

    The pulleys where the other things that would gunk up.

    I'll give it another shot.

  27. #227
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    I just let it get gunky. It's going to get dirt in the bearings anyway here thanks to the weather. So screw it.

  28. #228
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    Don't be alarmed. The dirt in the chain has very limited effect, and pulleys are built around ceramic bearings, which means the dirt cannot enter there anyway.

  29. #229
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    This stuff is incredible. Just finished my second bottle within 2 years. I mean I used only 2 4oz bottles of lube for 4000 km of mountain biking! In dust, mud, whatever. Chain-L rules!

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abagrizzli View Post
    Don't be alarmed. The dirt in the chain has very limited effect, and pulleys are built around ceramic bearings, which means the dirt cannot enter there anyway.
    Dirt is what causes wear!

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Dirt is what causes wear!
    Dirt is one of a number of factors that cause wear. But that only applies to dirt that's where it shouldn't be.

    The irony is that dirt doesn't magically sneak into the chain under it's own power. People help it get into chains when they oil a dirty chain with a thin, solvent laden oil which lifts the dirt and carries it in with it.

    Also consider that a chain is not like a hub which goes round and round. The chain pins articulate back and forth through a short arc, in an action more like car windshield wipes. Any just like windshields, the natural tendency is for dirt to be swept to the fringes where it can build up but no longer be at the point of contact.

    Of course, some people ride in extremely dusty, gritty areas, and they have to be super careful to wipe any excess oil (any brand or type) of the exposed parts of their chains, so as not to adhere tons of dirt. In those conditions, I will dry wipe as well as possible, then run the chain through a paper towel dampened (not soaked) with OMS or naphtha to remove the last traces of the oil.
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  32. #232
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    And to add to what FB said, my answer was about dirt in pulleys, not in a chain itself.

  33. #233
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    I've heard about this lube called NFS. It's a thick lube. I read that you only need 12 drops on your chain to lube it. How can 12 drops cover the 100+ links in a chain? Sounds bogus to me.

  34. #234
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    my first use with NFS has been VERY impressive so far. very clean and long lasting. the best lube I've used in my 40 years of biking experience.
    I used a drop on each roller because I doubted the 12 drops claim too. maybe I'll do that next time though


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I've heard about this lube called NFS. It's a thick lube. I read that you only need 12 drops on your chain to lube it. How can 12 drops cover the 100+ links in a chain? Sounds bogus to me.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo View Post
    my first use with NFS has been VERY impressive so far. very clean and long lasting. the best lube I've used in my 40 years of biking experience.
    I used a drop on each roller because I doubted the 12 drops claim too. maybe I'll do that next time though
    NFS is very good, however they recently updated their instructions. You now need to place a drop on each roller with 12 drops a replenish.

    As good as NFS is, Chain-L is better. Chain-L is cheaper, lasts longer, is cleaner and quieter. I also find Chain-L has less build up on the chainrings and pulleys. I apply both the same way.

    I continue to look for a lube better than Chain-L, I have yet to find it.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abagrizzli View Post
    This stuff is incredible. Just finished my second bottle within 2 years. I mean I used only 2 4oz bottles of lube for 4000 km of mountain biking! In dust, mud, whatever. Chain-L rules!
    Is this a resurrection? I like Chain-L a great deal too. I'm able to lube more or less at my convenience so long as I don't let too long of an interval go by.

    Reminds me, I should order a few more bottles for the upcoming season.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Is this a resurrection?
    Why, it wasn't dead )))))) Just we are the quiet types, because we don't need to lube the chain often.

    The problem is, I don't succeed to convert any of my friends into it. Despite they see my good results with the chain, it's not important for them enough. And I'm not much of a role model anyway...

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abagrizzli View Post
    Why, it wasn't dead )))))) Just we are the quiet types, because we don't need to lube the chain often.
    Hah! I love it.

    The problem is, I don't succeed to convert any of my friends into it.
    I no longer try to convert people. Newbies will ask, and I will show them what I use and give them a sample bottle. Established riders already have their preferences.

  39. #239
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    Yep, I just feel obliged to Francis - you know that he puts samples, which he asks to give away. I found 2 giveaways, can't find the third...

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