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Thread: Budget XX1

  1. #1
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    Budget XX1

    So I wanted to have some fun and update my drivetrain to a 1x system. I really wanted the XX1 but didn't like the $1500 price tag. I mean hey I bought the bike for 11 bones to begin with. So I knew it wasn't gonna be cheap but I was able to do it for under 500.

    Budget XX1

    KMC 10 xps chain $18.50 eBay
    Shimano SLX hg81 11-36 cassette $44.99 eBay
    General Lee 29-35-42 $249.80 eBay
    ZEE 10 speed shifter $39.99 JensonUSA
    Race Face Narrow Wide 32t blue chainring $35.99 Bikeman
    Shimano slx m675-10 spd shadow+ rear derailleur $60.25 Merlin Cycles

    Total $449.52

    Now I ordered my 32t through Jenson who price matched Bikeman's but the ring was on back order so I got another one but in 36t through Art's.

    Race Face Narrow Wide 36t blue chainring $38.99 Art's cyclery

    Attachment 818646

    Attachment 818647

    11-13-15-17-19-21-24-29-35-42

    Attachment 818648

    The next three pics are of the weights of the 2 different 9 speed cassettes I was running a 12-36, a 11-32 and finally a pic of the modified 10 speed 11-42. I'm not a weight weenie and my scale doesn't do grams, only pounds and ounces, so it was the only items I bothered weighing.

    Attachment 818649

    Attachment 818650

    Attachment 818651

    Took me awhile to get this drivetrain to shift well on the stand. The shift up and down between the General Lee and the HG-81 isn't the best. Almost as if the spacer isn't quite the correct thickness. I've got it pretty good going up but not so great dropping back down to the SLX cassette. I also might need to shim the chainring a bit to get a better chain line but it's not bad.

    It was raining out pretty hard tonight but I caught a break in the storms and took it for a spin and the ratio changes seem fine. I'm gonna be racing tomorrow in an XC race with a good dh section and a real decent climb. No better way to test it out right? I hope I can push that 36t-42t combo up the hill.
    Last edited by StumpyandhisBike; 07-24-2013 at 12:47 PM.

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    Budget XX1

    Cool. I also looked really hard at the 1x11 drive train but settled on a 1x10 instead.

    Everything I've seen on those rings for the back is they work ok, but nothing to write home about.

    Good luck to ya. Thanks for sharing.

    Bill

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    Thanks man. I will say that the shifts seem to be better riding around in my street compared to on the stand. Jury is still out whether they were worth the money or not. I will update after tonight's race to see how it was riding with the General Lee as well as if I have any dropped chains or any other problems with the Raceface narrow wide ring or the SLX rear mech.

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    very cool. thanks for posting this. please keep us updated on the General Lee on your race.

    i too am very curious on a 1x10 large gear ration setup. i found this thread as another option: 10s 11-39 cassette

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    I wasnt aware the general lee was available in a 42 - I thought its biggest was a 40. That is a very good option for me as well - I was considering doing a XX1 crankset paired with the new X01 rear to make things affordable. Yours will be cheaper still!

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    Well the official results haven't been posted yet but I think I either got first or second in my age group (19-34) and class (beginner). Best finish I've ever had. That said I am 33 years old 40 lbs over weight. I ended up having to walk one steep section on the second lap. I was at that point and at least one other time wishing for another low gear. The 32t gear on back order would definitely help there. Or I could lose some more weight and get stronger!

    Shifting wasn't that bad. Shifting in the three gears of the GL was fine but not as good as the 7 other gears. Shifting numerically up through the entire cassete gears was better than numerically down. Again this may just be me needing to do more adjusting. I still have no shift from 29 to 24. I have to drop to 21 and back to 24 if that's the gear I want.

    This XC course has a lot of roots ,a couple good rock gardens, jumps if younwant them, dropped trees and tonight it was very muddy. I never once dropped a chain. In fact except for the lack of gear, during the second lap I basically forgot about the drivetrain.

    All in all I'm very happy with it. I have just bit more adjusting to do to get it spot on. Actually the only thing that I didn't like was at times I could feel the GL rotating back on the drive hub. I'm going to play with some spacers to see if I can get a tighter interface.

    You can see the back cuts in the machining at the hub interface in this pic.
    Attachment 818942

    My impressions? Shifting is good but could be better. Never dropped the chain and I was trying over a rough course. The drivetrain was stealth silent! Oh and I need more legs to push the gears I chose. Overall I'm stoked and very happy I did it!

  7. #7
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    Budget XX1

    Still, great that you did so well. Thanks for the ride report.

    I had my chance to check out a xx drive train and it is a machined thing of beauty. No doubt about that. But cost is way out of my league.

    Ride more and those pounds will shed and legs will grow stronger. I've got 12 years on ya and it still helps me every day.

    Bill

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    Thanks, I will keep strengthening myself and continue to shed more weight. That section I had to walk I didn't have to walk before with my 2x9 setup. But I had a 22-36 option. When the 32t comes I will use that to try and get a bit more spin and do less of the mashing that I'm doing now. My knees are a little sore this morning. That all said if it wasn't a race I wouldn't have been pushing myself as hard and I most likely wouldn't have had any problems on a regular ride. I could ride this setup anywhere is my initial thoughts.

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    So I did a quick 5 mile ride today over the roughest trails I know and still no dropped chains. I do believe that I need to shim the CR over just a bit. The only shims I have are thicker than I want but might try them anyhow. Shifting in the General Lee isn't all that responsive. Going up in teeth is never a problem. It's going back down that it hangs up now and then. I've never been unable to tune a bike transmission and this one is giving me the most headaches I've ever experienced. Now I have my mid season legs so I was able to climb a hill that gave me issues earlier this year. I also messed myself up once, instinctively going for the front derailure and hitting my relocated Reverb remote LOL! Still happy overall but it has been far from bolt on and go parts. I like to tinker though and is part of the reason I did it.

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    I've just bit the bullet and got the last one on eBay. See if i can get is going smooth with an XTR Shadow+ RD, 400km old chain and a hopefully-not-too-worn bottom half of my XT cassette. Will report back with results.

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    Right on man. I hope the xtr works better for you. I'm wondering if I should have gone the sram route sometimes or XT or ZEE all the way. I've never had a problem though with SLX before though. I also went with a long cage. Would I have got better performance out of a shorte cage I wonder? Well let us know how it works.

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    I'll keep fiddling with the B-screw height, clutch tension, shifter cable tension, chain length etc until I get it working well. Hopefully.

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    Update... Swapped wheels this weekend to my more robust DH worthy hoops and tires and took the rig out to Mt. Snow for a day and Highland MTB park for two on a east coast trip with my bud. No dropped chains and still the only shifting issue I have is going from the 29t to the 24t. Otherwise it all works super well together and I have a bike that one day I can go race XC and two days later be charging down gnar and railing high speed berms. My friend was dropping his chain and I had no issues.

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    Mine turned up and I installed it this afternoon. Same problem here: struggles to go from 29 to 24.

    I'm running:

    29er hardtail
    11-36 xt with 29 35 42 general lee
    Xtr shadow + rd, b screw from 9 Spd xt derailleur since the xtr one was too short
    112 link kmc x10sl chain, 34t rotor q-ring front with superstar xcr chain guide, 450mm chainstay

    The general lee teeth are much higher than the xt cassette teeth, and the rd is a long way below the 24 cog so this won't help with shifting.

    Anyway, this was the only problem in my riding up and down the street. Hopefully will test it later in the week on some steep stuff.

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    Re: Budget XX1

    Looks promising, thus, subscribing.

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    Interesting. The original SRAM version was 25-29-34-40.
    I thought the new Shimano compatible one was 28-34-40.

    General Lee 40T ? Cassette Adaptor (Shimano) | I-MTB Magazine

    General Lee 40T - Cassette Adaptor (Shimano) - Bagnoli Bike

    I would like to try it in converting my 2 x 10 to 1 x 10, but the thing is, reducing my chainring from 38 to a 34 or 36 would give me an even lower lowest gear, which is nice, but I wish we could get a 10 tooth rear cog. A 10 tooth rear cog would be very useful in this situation. Reducing the size of the then (with 1 x 10) front single chainring allows a tad more clearance and is slightly lighter than a bigger chainring, and give lower climbing gears. Somebody give us a screw on 10 tooth to replace the 11 tooth and we're sitting pretty with a 10-40 in a 10 speed cassette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morkys View Post
    Interesting. The original SRAM version was 25-29-34-40.
    I thought the new Shimano compatible one was 28-34-40.

    General Lee 40T ? Cassette Adaptor (Shimano) | I-MTB Magazine

    General Lee 40T - Cassette Adaptor (Shimano) - Bagnoli Bike

    I would like to try it in converting my 2 x 10 to 1 x 10, but the thing is, reducing my chainring from 38 to a 34 or 36 would give me an even lower lowest gear, which is nice, but I wish we could get a 10 tooth rear cog. A 10 tooth rear cog would be very useful in this situation. Reducing the size of the then (with 1 x 10) front single chainring allows a tad more clearance and is slightly lighter than a bigger chainring, and give lower climbing gears. Somebody give us a screw on 10 tooth to replace the 11 tooth and we're sitting pretty with a 10-40 in a 10 speed cassette.


    Pretty sure a 10-tooth is to small a radius to fit on a standard freehub, which is why the XX1/X01 uses a different (smaller diameter) freehub to fit the 10T that it comes with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c3024446 View Post
    Mine turned up and I installed it this afternoon. Same problem here: struggles to go from 29 to 24.

    I'm running:

    29er hardtail
    11-36 xt with 29 35 42 general lee
    Xtr shadow + rd, b screw from 9 Spd xt derailleur since the xtr one was too short
    112 link kmc x10sl chain, 34t rotor q-ring front with superstar xcr chain guide, 450mm chainstay

    The general lee teeth are much higher than the xt cassette teeth, and the rd is a long way below the 24 cog so this won't help with shifting.

    Anyway, this was the only problem in my riding up and down the street. Hopefully will test it later in the week on some steep stuff.
    Is your XTR rear a long or medium cage? I currently have a XX1 crank with 28t chainring and 11-36 XTR rear cassette, shifter and derailleur... Thinking about buying leonardi for Shimano but the issue with 29-24 shifting is stopping me.

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    It's a medium

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    Took it on some steep stuff today....works really well! Got up some stuff that i had ran out of puff on previously. The big gear jumps weren't noticeable. Going to have to keep an eye on the wear rate of it though. The cogs are an aluminum alloy and I'm nervous about how much they will wear.

    On the trail I adjusted the B-screw to get the jockey wheel as close to the 42T as I could without it interfering with shifting down, and fiddled with the shifting barrel adjusters. Now, most of the time it is shifting from 29 to 24. Up shifts are great.

    I went with this since I love my single front Rotor Q-ring, but it only comes in a 34T and i wanted a lower range. XX1 was ruled out since I have C29ssmax wheels and I can't get an XD driver for that.

    I'm thinking this is an excellent alternative if you like to fiddle with drivetrain components yourself, like a challenge and like having a unique bike. However, if I was building another bike I would go X01 or XX1 in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by c3024446; 08-14-2013 at 11:58 PM.

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    I'm glad you were able to get it to shift better. I probably could play with it more but I have spent too much time tinkering at this point and not enough just riding. I wonder if using Action-Tec's jockey pulley would help at all?

    Action Tec Home Page

    I also agree with you that if XX1 or X01 were more affordable I would just go that route. I really don't want to buy new wheels to get something that would accept the XD driver.

    Got my first ride in yesterday with the 32t Raceface NW and would have to say it makes for a much better trail and XC gear range. I'm happy I have both now for different terrain.

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    Interested to know if anyone has tried a SRAM derailleur yet with the General Lee cogs yet? I have the 25-40T SRAM cassette cogs from GL and using an XT Shadow+ derailleur and having the same finicky shifting behavior. In my case it's going from the GL 25T to the SRAM 22T. Like everyone else here shifting up is never a problem and overall I've been very impressed with this setup.

    According to the Pink Bike review (First Look: General Lee Wide-Range Cassette Adapter - Pinkbike), they found SRAM derailleurs to shift better with this conversion but would like to hear if others have experienced the same.
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    Pinkbike has a review on the 11-40 GenLee setup. They said the X9t2 was better performing than Zee on same cassette range.
    First Look: General Lee Wide-Range Cassette Adapter - Pinkbike
    Perhaps the Shimano cassette 11-42 with sram shifter/Der would be the ticket?
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    HERE IS YOUR BUDGET XX1!



    this was a leaked photo by pinkbike of yeti team rider jared graves yeti sb66 bike - the one he won the last big enduro race on...take a look at the rear cassette. giant shimano cassette, 10 cogs, looks like its a production XTR rear derailleur which means stock shifter. this photo was published in a story that was on pinkbikes front page for a matter of minutes before being deleted...

    so this appears to be...a shimano version of the general lee

    search "wide range shimano cassette pinkbike" on google and click on the cached version of the first hit to read the full article

    cant wait for interbike this year! could be the first time in a lonnnnng time that something interesting was released there

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    Quote Originally Posted by MondoRides View Post
    Interested to know if anyone has tried a SRAM derailleur yet with the General Lee cogs yet? I have the 25-40T SRAM cassette cogs from GL and using an XT Shadow+ derailleur and having the same finicky shifting behavior. In my case it's going from the GL 25T to the SRAM 22T. Like everyone else here shifting up is never a problem and overall I've been very impressed with this setup.

    According to the Pink Bike review (First Look: General Lee Wide-Range Cassette Adapter - Pinkbike), they found SRAM derailleurs to shift better with this conversion but would like to hear if others have experienced the same.
    I have about 5 rides on my GL 11-40 SRAM setup (X9 Type2 mid-cage) and its been shifting fine with no real finicky issues. It is not a smooth as it was and is a little clunky going from SRAM to GL. I am going to try and take a little material off the spacer between them this weekend to see if it will help smooth things out, think there is just a little bit to big of a gap.

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    That probably is the general lee adapter, looks exactly like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenblinker104 View Post
    HERE IS YOUR BUDGET XX1!



    this was a leaked photo by pinkbike of yeti team rider jared graves yeti sb66 bike - the one he won the last big enduro race on...take a look at the rear cassette. giant shimano cassette, 10 cogs, looks like its a production XTR rear derailleur which means stock shifter. this photo was published in a story that was on pinkbikes front page for a matter of minutes before being deleted...

    so this appears to be...a shimano version of the general lee

    search "wide range shimano cassette pinkbike" on google and click on the cached version of the first hit to read the full article

    cant wait for interbike this year! could be the first time in a lonnnnng time that something interesting was released there

  28. #28
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    I have wondered why when 10 spd cassettes became available, why a larger range cassette was not provided as an option, rather than tighter spacing. I assumed it was due to the range of the RD not being able to handle larger cog combinations. The GL makes me realize that my assumption was not valid.

    For a 3x10 drive chain, a 11-36 cassette somewhat makes sense, but for a 2x10, having a 11-42 cassette would be nice. My SJ came with 22/36 rings -- this works well for me for the low end, but when riding some of the longer fast down hill sections, I quickly run out gears. If I had a 11-42 cassette, I would go with 24/28 or 26/40 for the rings (I have not run the #'s to see would compare best to the ratios of my old 3x9 drive train).

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    Not entirely on topic, but one of the manufacturers photos of 2014 bikes recently released shows an X01 that appears to have a double crankset - though the spec says 1x11 and there is no front Der. Or guide.

    Wouldn't surprise me to see a 2x11 from sram.

    Back to the budget XX1 - has anyone run the GL 11-42 shimano wit x9/X0 shfter derailleur combos?
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    Ride two on the 11-42 - shifting nicely in all gears, up and down. May have just needed to settle in. I'm not touching the derailleur limits or b-screw anymore, they're surely at some golden spot at the moment!

  31. #31
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    Another budget 1x10 wide range conversion

    Ordered the GL for my Mojo HD (Shimano version that goes up to 42) & installed it with a Shimano XT 11-36 cassette (only removed 3 largest so it is still 10 speed) and I'm running an XTR Shadow+ ;replaced my 38 / 26 front rings with a 34t Race Face narrow-wide - Adjusted limits and B-screw but did not change my chain length at all

    Shifts pretty darn good with a slight stutter / delay when shifting from 29 to 24, but otherwise almost as good as it was shifting before - didn't remove FD yet - want to make sure I like it but I'm liking it so far after 2 big rides!

    GL adapter - $155 shipped + Race Face Ring - $38 shipped = converted for $193.

    Based on this picture in 42, do you think I need to add to my chain? It still seems to have some play when I take the air out of the shock and bottom out.

    Attachment 827542

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    Skyno,

    Where did you find the GL adapter for $155? The cheapest I've found it is on eBay for almost $200 shipped.

    Thanks!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanbosse View Post
    Skyno,

    Where did you find the GL adapter for $155? The cheapest I've found it is on eBay for almost $200 shipped.

    Thanks!
    Look at online bike shops from Germany

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanbosse View Post
    Skyno,

    Where did you find the GL adapter for $155? The cheapest I've found it is on eBay for almost $200 shipped.

    Thanks!
    Here you go... Leonardi Racing General Lee Kassettenadapter 29-42z fr Shimano
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    I guess I should've been more specific about location. Do they ship to the US?

    Thanks

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanbosse View Post
    I guess I should've been more specific about location. Do they ship to the US?

    Thanks
    Yes they do. Mine is en route as we speak via DHL>USPS with tracking
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    I almost pulled the trigger last week from bikediscount, wish I hadnt waited, looks like they are out of stock on the Shimano one.

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    For those that are using the General Lee, how is it holding up to wear? I'm vacillating between this or getting a 39t actiontec Ti cog. I'm a bit concerned of the longevity since its aluminum.

    Thanks.

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    I haven't noticed any accelerated wear but I've only had it for a few months.

  40. #40
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    I am going back and forth on my new build. I want a 1X10 or 1 X11 (need crank , derailleur, shifter -i have a 10spd) I do not need the extra gearing unless I go to the mnts. Leaning towards 1 X11 because it is newer and more may be avail later...maybe I should ignore that. Is Shimano going 11spd?

    here is what I am thinking
    XX1 crank- You can use a 10spd or 11spd chain on an XX1 crank and you are suppose to not need a guide. Is this correct?

    If I go 10sp
    long cage derraileur
    12-36 cassette and purchase a 41 or 42 extra ring ebay when going to mnts
    or have extra 11-27 ish for local trails (need extra chains)
    Have an XX 10spd shifter
    11 spd
    xx1 rear and shifter
    run a 11-29 insh {they may have a 12-32 road now) 11spd road cassette (hope it would go on my cassette body)
    Later decide if I want to buy an XX1 cassette body and cassette- Not sure the 11-29 wont be good enough since a ride a ss with a 32 X 19

    Would love feed back before I shell out the $'s

  41. #41
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    I got my 42t Shimano General Lee installed and working nicely. Im running an XT Shadow plus and Wolftooth 30t up front.

    However I did have some problems Id like to mention in case it helps anyone. Im going to start with a warning - when you are setting up the derailleur, and before you shorten your chain, check for interference between the inner cage and the 42t cog with the derailleur cage pulled forward, shifting on and off the 42t cog. Now the details.

    I initially thought Id start off by trying this with my X7 short cage, even though a long-cage is recommended. The X7 shorty had more than enough capacity even accounting for FS chain growth, and I was able to get it shifting very well fairly quickly. I did have a slight indexing problem and added a .2mm shim to the supplied spacer, but with that it shifted great. I dialed it in on the stand, did a test ride around the block and all was well. Time to hit the trail.

    So.2 miles into my ride, when shifting from the 42t low to 2nd gear, the derailleur hanger snapped, and the cage on the derailleur broke as well. Ugh, time to walk. Upon investigation at home, I determined that the inner cage was interfering with the 42t cog during the shift when the cage was pulled forward. This didn't happen on the stand, but when the suspension compressed, that pulled the cage forward enough to cause the problem.

    So when I installed my XT mid-cage, I checked this carefully, and saw that there was interference as well. It started when the derailleur was pointing a little forward from straight down. So I clearanced the inner cage with a dremel to increase the range. I still cant use the full capacity of the derailleur, but I made the chain long enough so that there was no chance of interference even accounting for chain growth.

    Regarding the SRAM vs. Shimano shifting with this adapter the SRAM definitely shifted better for me. Not as good as stock, but close enough that its not much of an issue. However I want a clutch derailleur, and Im not convinced that SRAM has their act together in that area, so Shimano it is. With the XT mid, all of the shifts were fine other getting on and off the GL adapter. Going from the stock 4th up onto the GL 3rd was slightly slow, but acceptable. But going from 3 on the GL down to the stock 4 just did not want to happen. So I took a dremel to the outside back of the teeth on the GL 3rd gear, and that did wonders. I finally got it shifting pretty good both ways on the stand.

    What I found on the trail is that if you apply just a bit of power to the pedals during the shift, it shifts fine. So overall I am happy with it. I actually prefer the wider ratio gaps between gears.

  42. #42
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    Hi jackl,

    Thanks for the detailed write up. When you say that it shifts fine "with just a bit of power", does that mean it doesn't shift well with higher load, or no load?

    Thanks!

  43. #43
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    At this point, it will shift through all gears every time even with no load. The shift is a bit slower than stock going on and off the GL, however currently it is not getting hung up or anything like that. With a little bit of power to the pedals, it shifts quicker and I'd say very close to stock. I don't normally shift while putting heavy power to the pedals, and have not tried that. Hope that helps clarify.

  44. #44
    dvn
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    Received the General Lee yesterday and installed it this morning. I'm running a Race Face N/W 30T with a X9 mid type 2. I read another post about minor shifting issues and someone thinking of machining the supplied spacer down a little so I went ahead and installed mine with a Miche 10 speed spacer that I had laying around. It was slightly thinner than the supplied spacer. Maybe 1-2 mm? I should have measured it. Anyway, it shifts perfect! I didn't have to adjust anything other than the B screw.
    Attachment 828352
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvn View Post
    Received the General Lee yesterday and installed it this morning. I'm running a Race Face N/W 30T with a X9 mid type 2. I read another post about minor shifting issues and someone thinking of machining the supplied spacer down a little so I went ahead and installed mine with a Miche 10 speed spacer that I had laying around. It was slightly thinner than the supplied spacer. Maybe 1-2 mm? I should have measured it. Anyway, it shifts perfect! I didn't have to adjust anything other than the B screw.
    Attachment 828352
    Man, I tried installing the Miche 10 speed spacer and I didn't notice a significant improvement. At this point it's just the hang up that you noted too. I'm wishing I had went sram now because I can't seem to tune it out.

  46. #46
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    mine 1x10 works greate = xx1(34t) crank + xt 11-36 cassette + xtr shifter + type1(!) xtr derail.
    24h MTB no chaindrop, shifting very precise, low weight . Now looking for XX cassette to drop much more grams on drivetrain
    Scott Scale 29er FHT, Scott Foil, Chinese 29er FHT

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    milfe ritze

    Thanks a lot, I got mine ordered yesterday. I think it's wise to order one 16teeth pinion for 11-36 sprocket. Take of the 15t and 17t and replace it with this 16t. After that there will be space to add the big 42 sprocket! This is super clever! I think it is possible to use xt,slx and xtr cassettes.

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    :-)
    Last edited by catalin.strava; 09-04-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  49. #49
    dwt
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanbosse View Post
    Skyno,

    Where did you find the GL adapter for $155? The cheapest I've found it is on eBay for almost $200 shipped.

    Thanks!
    Actually $207.30. Just pulled the trigger on the SRAM adapter. Hoping for a durable functional part
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  50. #50
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    Otherwise, I'm having similar issues to others with the jump between the GL carrier and XT cogs. If I put enough cable tension for it to shift onto the carrier, it won't shift down, and vice versa with a looser cable. I'm hoping this will sort itself out as the cassette wears in.

    A tip for those looking for a longer b-screw, you can gain length by flipping the b-screw around so that it's threaded in from the other side. That was enough to allow me to get the b-screw tension needed to clear the 42.
    Last edited by D(C); 09-09-2013 at 07:19 PM.

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