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  1. #1
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    Brand new bike..BB spins..WTF??

    i have a brand new scalpel. the other day i was standing up on the bike, really trying to put some power into it to get up a hill and i was at the top of a pedal stroke and the cranks spun around made this funny (zzzztttttttt) noise. could this be a bad BB/ if not, what is it? and how can it be fixed?
    Last edited by kdh344; 12-03-2005 at 11:07 AM.

  2. #2
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    Have you checked your rear hub?

  3. #3
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    checked my rear wheel hub? no. why?

  4. #4
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    Probably asked because if the cranks spun with little or no forward movement of the bike (like the tire slipped and spun), it is your rear hub.
    The cassette pawl mechanism didn't engage, leading to a spin and a "buzz".

    Now, if there was no slipping sesnation, maybe tire rub on the chainstay?

  5. #5
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    Your bb is meant to spin, that's pretty much it's job; if it didn't you wouldn't go very far...

    So, what exactly happened, your description isn't a lot of help...but it does sound like pawls slipping so far...
    Last edited by Bikinfoolferlife; 12-03-2005 at 11:56 PM.
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  6. #6
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    i was riding up a hill, the chain was engaged and the bike was working fine and suddenly the cranks spun all the way down making the zzzzt noise. i had NOT just changed gears either. i was a the top of a pedal stroke just about to go down and the cranks spun all the way down--zzzzttttt. but it didnt do that UNTIL i really put some power into it. just normal out of the saddle riding didnt do it.i dont think the chain was in between the rings either b/c i wasnt changing gears. hope that helps a bit.im gonna ride it again to see if i can better tell what happened. any suggestions that i might try to determine what the problem is?
    Last edited by kdh344; 12-04-2005 at 06:33 AM.

  7. #7
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    My scalpel done something that sounds the same. What mine was doing was chain slip on the rear cassette. It kept holding between gears and under a load it would slip. The only way I was able to fix this was to change the 4mm housing to 5mm. Also throw away that plastic piece that holds your housing in that funky position near the rear hub.

  8. #8
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    Avid Rollamajig dude. It rocks.

    I wouldn't know though.... just what my friends tell me.

  9. #9
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    Hub

    I'm pretty sure it's the pawls slipping in the hub, but you'll know for sure soon because it'll only get worse.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    what does that require..replacement or servicing?

  11. #11
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    The cranks are supposed to spin freely. The only thing stopping them is the rear freewheel.cassette. It they go loose all of a sudden under torque it means the freewheel mechanism is slipping or the chain is skipping on the cassette. Skipping can be caused by anything from bad derailleur adjustment to bent teeth on the cassette or a bent hanger. If you heard a buzzing sound its very likely the freewheel is the problem. When its a chainskip whay you will hear is a loud chain popping sound.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    what does that require..replacement or servicing?
    Servicing.

    Any decent shop should be able to service a freehub, up to and including replacing the freehub entirely.

  13. #13
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    thanks!!

  14. #14
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    Let us know which way it went...I came back to the thread to see if it might have been the chain in between cogs due to misadjustment of the derailleur and/or frame flex or something along those lines. Since you said it was new I really didn't think that it could be the chain skipping on the cogs (yet). I know a couple big guys who've been able to strip out cheap freehubs pretty quickly...
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    the shop where i bought the bike is 3 hours from my home so i cant just pop in and get it serviced. i emailed them yesterday and asked them to refund my money b/c of this response i received from a bike mechanic:

    Hi kd,

    Your problem sounds like it could be you "freehub body". It is that part of the rear wheel onto which your cassette (the 7, 8 or 9 speed gear cluster) would slide. It could also be that the pawls (small metal parts that are supposed to catch when you pedal forward thus causing the rear wheel to turn) are damaged or sticking.

    Because that bike sat for so long, the grease used to lubricate the inside of the free hub body may have become solidified causing the pawls to stick intermittently. The other cause could be that the pawls heads are stripped or worn. If the problem is intermittent I would say that the lubricant is the problem. If it happens regularly then the pawls might be damaged. You can try to lube and or heat the free hub body which might help to soften the grease. If the pawls are the problem you'll have to replace the freehub body.

    If it were my bike I would replace the freehub body right away as riding a bike with such a problem could result in loss of control and accident.

    Hope that helps and good luck,

    Rich Coombs
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    i also ps'd him to ask if there is anything else that can potentially go wrong w/this bike since it sat for so long. i havent received an answer yet but i think i already know the answer. hopefully i can get a refund. do you or anyone think i could get any help from cannondale?? btw, this isnt the first prbolem..the first thing was the magura brakes. i had no brakes before i left the shop they said "oh the levers are suppsoed to go all the way to the grips..they're self adjusting and will get tighter w/rides..." BS!!! i had to pay a local shop to fix them. ive had this bike for 2 months and cant even ride it. its like having a ferrari in the driver way but no gas in the tank argh!!!! i emailed cannondale about the brakes but they couldnt help me. any thoughts??

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    i also ps'd him to ask if there is anything else that can potentially go wrong w/this bike since it sat for so long. i havent received an answer yet but i think i already know the answer.
    To fix it and get it rideable, you can probably just spray some Triflow into the rear hub and loosen all that up. Take off the cassette lockring and squirt some lube down into the area that is normally covered by the lockring. Don't squirt into the rear hub itself - just into the freehub body.

    Here is Everything you could want to know about freehubs..
    http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html


    How long did it sit? More than a year or two?

    I doubt you'll get a refund - especially after riding it for 2 months.

    If it sat for that long, you probably got a pretty good break on the price...

    If you're nice about it, you will probably be able to explain your problem to them and maybe they will give you a free overhaul - they really should have when you bought the bike. If the bike sat long enough for the rear hub grease to dry up, you should get the fork serviced as well. The other stuff (hubs, headset and BB) should just loosen up with riding, but if you can get them to comp it for you.....

  17. #17
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    Before you replace anything based on what's said here make sure (as someone pointed out) that it wasn't just a slippage from one gear to another. That does happen on occasion with lots of 9 speeds(especially under load) and can be caused by dirt/twigs/junk getting in the chain/rear or front derailleur and causing it to momentarily be between cogs/chainrings thus your crank slipped 1/2 a turn. If it didn't happen afterward I wouldn't be overly worried. I'd just clean the drivetrain.

  18. #18
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    This makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    If you're nice about it, you will probably be able to explain your problem to them and maybe they will give you a free overhaul - they really should have when you bought the bike. If the bike sat long enough for the rear hub grease to dry up, you should get the fork serviced as well. The other stuff (hubs, headset and BB) should just loosen up with riding, but if you can get them to comp it for you.....
    You won't get your money back, I'm pretty sure. The LBS is, however, pretty much on the hook for ensuring that the bike is rideable. They basically sold you "new old stock" which is basically a brand new bike. While I realize the shop is three hours from you, it looks like you need to call them and make arrangements for you to bring the bike in to repair the freehub, and look over everything else (I'd request that they take the cranks off and check to see that the bb is lubed, etc.) including the brakes. Hard to believe they sent you on your way when the levers were touching the grips.

    See if they can't agree to taking the bike in first thing in the morning on a day you are available and have it back to you by the end of the day. Find some sort of activity to do that local to the LBS and save yourself the aggrivation of all the back and forth driving. It's going to be a royal PITA, but I just don't see any other reasonable option.

    Best wishes for a speedy resolution.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  19. #19
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    forkboy, i thought it sat on the sales floor for 2 years but heres what my paper work, manuals etc. say:

    -fox shock manual 2001
    -headshock manual 2000
    -warranty sticker in back of owner's manual 2001
    -sales receipt "cannondale scalpel 2004"
    -Hayes brakes manual came w/the bike but the bike has Marta Maguras

    so im not sure how long it sat.

    im waiting on a response from the shop now..as to whether or not i can get my money back. i got the bike for $2,000. before i left the shop i asked, "is there anything that needs to be done to this bike since its been sitting...?" answer- "no, its good to go"

    yeah, clyde, i cant believe they sold me the bike that way either. it breaks my heart to give it back. this is the fastest, most comfortable bike ive ever ridden. i DONT WANNA GIVE IT BACK..but if i cant ride it...??

    ANOTHER THING...some of the the big chain ring teeth are pointed..they look almost worn out. i asked the shop owner about that he said "all high end bikes are that way..it enables the chain to move easily back and forth from the small CR to the larger CR." ever heard of that?????????????
    Last edited by kdh344; 12-06-2005 at 11:32 AM.

  20. #20
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    I don't see why you deserve a refund over this issue since you still don't know what the issue is, and neither does the shop. It's not the shop's fault you live 3 hrs away, make some time to go see them and see what they'll do. The written response to your query was fine, actually better than average.

    The brakes might be in need of bleeding or fresh hydraulic fluid if they're old; if they didn't have them in good adjustment at time of purchase and gave you some story about they'll get better on their own, that's just wrong. Chainrings wear, some have teeth of varying shapes; if you got a used one or not hard to tell now. What warranty was given at time of purchase? Is this a dedicated bike shop?
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  21. #21
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    I agree...

    with Bikinfoolferlife, Call_Me_Clyde, and forkboy. Figure out a way to take it in for repair at the shop or suck it up and get it fixed locally. I don't see how the shop could give you a full refund on a bike you've been riding for 2 months because of a bad freehub and poorly bled brakes. They should be willing to fix it, but only you can decide if it is worth driving 3 hrs to get it done. Just be nice and try to work with the shop instead of demanding this and that. You'll find it usually gets you farther in life.

    Just my 2 cents,
    TUMBLEWEED

  22. #22
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    Chainring teeth

    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    ANOTHER THING...some of the the big chain ring teeth are pointed..they look almost worn out. i asked the shop owner about that he said "all high end bikes are that way..it enables the chain to move easily back and forth from the small CR to the larger CR." ever heard of that?????????????
    I'm pretty sure the LBS is correct on this. Look at any middle or large chain ring and you will see some of the teeth will be pointed, some rounded off or even almost flat. It does help in movement of the chain from ring to ring.

    Again, this is my understanding, and if I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikinfoolferlife
    I don't see why you deserve a refund over this issue since you still don't know what the issue is, and neither does the shop. It's not the shop's fault you live 3 hrs away, make some time to go see them and see what they'll do. The written response to your query was fine, actually better than average.

    The brakes might be in need of bleeding or fresh hydraulic fluid if they're old; if they didn't have them in good adjustment at time of purchase and gave you some story about they'll get better on their own, that's just wrong. Chainrings wear, some have teeth of varying shapes; if you got a used one or not hard to tell now. What warranty was given at time of purchase? Is this a dedicated bike shop?
    i havent ridden it for 2 months! i rode it one time and had no brakes. and when i bought the bike and made reference to "no brakes" the shop told me the brakes were fine and would self adjust after a few rides. anyway, after that one ride i took it to the LBS who told me the brakes needed bleeding and it should not have left the sales floor with the levers going all the way to the grips. after i paid to get the brakes fixed locally-the LBS discovered the front calipers/pads were bad (on a brand new bike??!!).. so they arent really fixed after all....then after i got it home i discovered THIS zzzzt problem. i just feel i was sold something that wasnt ride ready and after sitting for so long i think its gonna start nickel and diming me to death. after $2000- im broke. they are nice people at the shop where the bike was purchased so i think they'll work with me.

    and that response above from rich coombs was from a bike shop in boston NOT the shop that sold me the bike.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    i havent ridden it for 2 months! i rode it one time and had no brakes. and when i bought the bike and made reference to "no brakes" the shop told me the brakes were fine and would self adjust after a few rides. anyway, after that one ride i took it to the LBS who told me the brakes needed bleeding and it should not have left the sales floor with the levers going all the way to the grips. after i paid to get the brakes fixed locally-the LBS discovered the front calipers/pads were bad (on a brand new bike??!!).. so they arent really fixed after all....then after i got it home i discovered THIS zzzzt problem. i just feel i was sold something that wasnt ride ready and after sitting for so long i think its gonna start nickel and diming me to death. after $2000- im broke. they are nice people at the shop where the bike was purchased so i think they'll work with me.

    and that response above from rich coombs was from a bike shop in boston NOT the shop that sold me the bike.
    Just to get things straight, did you buy a new -as in you are the first owner- bike, or did you buy a "used" bike? if it is a "new" bike, my understanding is that, regardless of how long it sat on the shop it should be covered by whatever warranty the manufacturer -not the shop- offers. And it would seem like your bike has some warranty related issues, if it was never used before. Warranty usually covers you from the day you bought the item, not from the day it was manufactured.

    If it is a used-demo bike, things are different, and the manufacturers warranty may have expired.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenK
    Just to get things straight, did you buy a new -as in you are the first owner- bike, or did you buy a "used" bike? if it is a "new" bike, my understanding is that, regardless of how long it sat on the shop it should be covered by whatever warranty the manufacturer -not the shop- offers. And it would seem like your bike has some warranty related issues, if it was never used before. Warranty usually covers you from the day you bought the item, not from the day it was manufactured.

    If it is a used-demo bike, things are different, and the manufacturers warranty may have expired.
    yep BRAND new..NOT a demo. should i contact cannondale again?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    i have a brand new scalpel. the other day i was standing up on the bike, really trying to put some power into it to get up a hill and i was at the top of a pedal stroke and the cranks spun around made this funny (zzzztttttttt) noise. could this be a bad BB/ if not, what is it? and how can it be fixed?

    I know we all jumped immediately to the pawls in the freewheel not engaging properly, but any chance that your tire simply spun? It's quite common and would match the cranks spinning and the zzzttttttt noise perfectly.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Paul Proteus
    I know we all jumped immediately to the pawls in the freewheel not engaging properly, but any chance that your tire simply spun? It's quite common and would match the cranks spinning and the zzzttttttt noise perfectly.
    You may be on to something. Sounds very possible to me.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    You may be on to something. Sounds very possible to me.
    tire spinning..well i thought so at first too. thats why i immediately got out of the saddle and tried it again. and the cranks-unmistakingly-spun to the bottom...so i dont think so. im still waiting on a reply from the bike shop to see what they'll do for me. is there any harm in me taking this apart, shipping it back to them, them putting it togther to fix it and then taking it apart tot send it back to me...blah blah blah..will that harm the bike?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    tire spinning..well i thought so at first too. thats why i immediately got out of the saddle and tried it again. and the cranks-unmistakingly-spun to the bottom...so i dont think so. im still waiting on a reply from the bike shop to see what they'll do for me. is there any harm in me taking this apart, shipping it back to them, them putting it togther to fix it and then taking it apart tot send it back to me...blah blah blah..will that harm the bike?
    It won't harm the bike, per se. But - nothing personal here - just going off the information in this thread - I don't think you are really technically inclined to disassemble a bike, pack it correctly for shipping, and reassemble it with the hope of it working right.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    It won't harm the bike, per se. But - nothing personal here - just going off the information in this thread - I don't think you are really technically inclined to disassemble a bike, pack it correctly for shipping, and reassemble it with the hope of it working right.
    yeah youre prolly right about that. what would you do?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    yeah youre prolly right about that. what would you do?
    Me, personally? I'd do as advised in one of the earlier posts. Make a day out of it - talk to the guys at the shop, make an appt, drive up in the morning, drop off the bike, do some x-mas shopping, go to the Olive Garden, go back and pick it up in the afternoon.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Me, personally? I'd do as advised in one of the earlier posts. Make a day out of it - talk to the guys at the shop, make an appt, drive up in the morning, drop off the bike, do some x-mas shopping, go to the Olive Garden, go back and pick it up in the afternoon.
    thanks for the advice..here is the response from the LBS i bought it from:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Kd,

    Sorry you have had so much trouble with the bike. I wish you had been closer so we could have handled the problems you were having.
    I will be more than happy to take the bike back and refund your money. I need to coordinate with Blondie our bean counter to see when we will have the money. This time of year is really tight. I will have her contact you soon to coordinate the return of the bike and refund.

    Bruce
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    pretty good of him ayyy?

  33. #33
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    What, a refund?

    Are you kidding me?

    It sounds to me like you need a new freehub and a brake bleed. That is it. These things happen. Ask the shop to adress these issues, and all is good. If you paid someone else to do the work, ask the shop that you bought the bike from to pay.
    gfy

  34. #34
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    my advice

    Whoa Nellie!!!

    I wouldn't really ditch the bike. You paid $$$ for it. I understand there were problems with the brakes, something spinning etc.

    I read every post on this thread and all of your responses. It sounds to me that the bike needs to be tuned up. Gone over, tested, and adjusted.

    I understand the issues with the bike shop being some time away. Is there another shop you can take it to have it adjusted? A friend who knows something about bikes?

    Now...take the following with a grain of salt. After reading your responses, KD, I appears that you're not too well versed in bicycle mechanics? I may be wrong, and I seriously mean no offense or derision.

    What I'd do in your situation: (since no one asked)
    Get it adjusted so it works.
    Purchase online a mechanics bible. Zen, Blues, there are a lot of publications out there.
    Mail order from Performance, Supergo etc. one of the all in one starter tool kits around the $70.00 range. These have damn near everything you'd ever need to repair and maintain your ride.
    LEARN all you can by doing it yourself.
    And last: Understand that bikes are not 'fire and forget' things. You will be working on a perfectly adjusted bike, in some minor fashion, after nearly every ride. Things loosen, tighten, break, fall off, go flat..........
    You'll find a LOT of folks on this forum who for working on their bikes is one of the most enjoyable, relaxing, rewarding, oh hell okay, frustrating (sometimes) things they do.
    After a fight with the wife, it was usually..."where you going?" 'to work on my bike' "figures".
    Anyway, your problem as described can be a number of things. Stuck cassette/slipping chain lead the list as described. However, I'd take serious consideration to SHIGGYS suggestion about your wheel just spinning. It does happen, and where and when you described! I've gone over the bars , in fact Sunday, from the exact same thing. (stopped to adjust a brake on a slight down hill part of Braille trail. Started to torque it to go and I unweighted the rear enough to spin........knocked the wind outta me, and splintered one of my $$$ carbon fibre bar ends) (it has to be about me or I get bored writing
    Get it fixed so you can ride. Get yourself some instructions and some tools. Learn to do most everything yourself. You'll be richer for it.

    Best of luck to you brah, let us know the outcome.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    tire spinning..well i thought so at first too. thats why i immediately got out of the saddle and tried it again. and the cranks-unmistakingly-spun to the bottom...
    What you are describing sounds like tire spin to me, getting out of the saddle will only increase the likelyhood of spinning your rear tire because as you stand up, you almost always end up shifting your weight forward some (plus, when standing it's easier to really apply a lot of force to the pedal). Try this, get the bike in bigger gear - one that is tough to pedal, but not overly so. Then try to recreate the issue (not that it is very likly, but if you fall and break your neck while doing this I assume no responsibility!). If it's easier to make the problem happen, then most likely your rear hub is not engaging properly. If it is more difficult or impossible to make it happen, I'd wager that it's just your tire spinning.

    BTW, what shop is this? Sounds like they have gone way above and beyond the call of duty here - offering to take the bike back is huge and from what I can tell so far, completely unnecessary.

  36. #36
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    the bike shop is in fort walton beach florida. i will try the final out of the saddle test to try and determine the problem.

    i just got home from the local cannondale dealer who suggested:

    1) the LBS where i bought the bike had rather write me a check for repairs done locally than a $2000 refund check.

    2) i can buy a 2006 Cannondale "Rush 1000" (not quite the same components as my scalpel... ie- LX, etc) for close to $2000 and have all the advantages of free for life tune-ups and a LBS that's 5 minutes from my house..not 3 hours. (not sure exactly how much yet though. the sticker is $2650.) NEW 2006 TECHNOLOGY NOT 2001 TECHNOLOGY

    local dealer told me to bring in my scalpel tomorrow to compare components and see what bike he can get me on for $2000 or close to it.

    signed,

    Seriously Confused a.k.a. kdh344

  37. #37
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    oops, My bad

    I didn't see the post stating that the bike store offered a refund. Take the refund and run. Go to the LBS and see what they'll give you for $2K or thereabout.

    Best Wishes,

    Bob
    Last edited by Call_me_Clyde; 12-09-2005 at 09:59 AM.
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    Take the refund and go buy youself a singlespeed with v-brakes. Why the hell do you need full suspension and disc brakes in florida anyways?

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    Update

    update: spoke to the LBS where i bought the bike he told me his cannondale rep will reimburse him for any money i have shelled out thus far for repairs and CD will pay for it to be repaired HERE in my city at the local CD dealer. they also said even if it required a new wheel set they would pay. he also said if i wanted a full refund he would do that too.

    i love the bike so much i think im just gonna allow my LBS to fix it and send the bill to CD. the LBS guy suggested getting rid of the Marta Maguras since that was the original problem (and its not fixed yet either.) and getting Avid Juicy 7's.

    i just treid to re-create the original problem and without fail, out of the saddle, i was at the top of a pedal stroke putting power into it and the cranks spun all the way to the bottom. i was watching it and saw the big chain ring spin around inside the chain. the second time, the cranks spun around then the chain came off. making that horrible zzzzztttttt sound.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
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    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    28

    Update

    update: spoke to the LBS where i bought the bike he told me his cannondale rep will reimburse him for any money i have shelled out thus far for repairs and CD will pay for it to be repaired HERE in my city at the local CD dealer. they also said even if it required a new wheel set they would pay. he also said if i wanted a full refund he would do that too.

    i love the bike so much i think im just gonna allow my LBS to fix it and send the bill to CD. the LBS guy suggested getting rid of the Marta Maguras since that was the original problem (and its not fixed yet either.) and getting Avid Juicy 7's.

    i just tried to re-create the original problem and without fail, out of the saddle, i was at the top of a pedal stroke putting power into it and the cranks spun all the way to the bottom. i was watching it and saw the big chain ring spin around inside the chain. the second time, the cranks spun around then the chain came off. making that horrible zzzzztttttt sound

  41. #41
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
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    Dec 1998
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    48,307
    Quote Originally Posted by kdh344
    update: spoke to the LBS where i bought the bike he told me his cannondale rep will reimburse him for any money i have shelled out thus far for repairs and CD will pay for it to be repaired HERE in my city at the local CD dealer. they also said even if it required a new wheel set they would pay. he also said if i wanted a full refund he would do that too.

    i love the bike so much i think im just gonna allow my LBS to fix it and send the bill to CD. the LBS guy suggested getting rid of the Marta Maguras since that was the original problem (and its not fixed yet either.) and getting Avid Juicy 7's.

    i just treid to re-create the original problem and without fail, out of the saddle, i was at the top of a pedal stroke putting power into it and the cranks spun all the way to the bottom. i was watching it and saw the big chain ring spin around inside the chain. the second time, the cranks spun around then the chain came off. making that horrible zzzzztttttt sound.
    Be very sure your LBS knows what is happening and how/when it is happening (I am still unclear on it). Have the mechanic go with you on a test ride and watch you make it happen. Then they should try it make it happen while you watch.

    It is very unusual to have the chain slip on the chain ring as much as you just described.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  42. #42
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
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    Jun 2003
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    3,884

    Listen to the Shig.

    Shiggy knows. Make sure that the mechanic knows/sees what is happening. I thought I was fairly sure as to what was up, but with you saying that the chain is slipping over the chainring I am not so sure.
    gfy

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