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  1. #1
    g3h6o3
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    Blackspire SuperPro 22T major slippage

    Hello,
    I bought a set of 22-32 Blackspire SuperPro rings a couple of weeks ago to replace my worn out Shimano SLX rings. I was starting to get some chainsuck so I went with BlackSpire based on previous experience with their rings.

    However, I'm having some major slipping when on the 22T when climbing and really putting the power down, needless to say that it occurs in the worst moments and it lets completely go, with the ensuing knee "injury". To aleviate the problem I shortened my chain 4 links and it did help a fair amount but I didn'T have this problem with my old rings.

    So I'm wondering if anybody else had this problem and what they did to fix it or if anybody can suggest anything. As mentionned I used their rings before (26T version) without any problem so this comes as a surprise.

    Thanks


    P.S. I tried contacting BlackSpire without success before posting.
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  2. #2
    g3h6o3
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    I should have added that it seems to happen mostly when my rear wheel is hitting obstacles. I strongly suspect my chain bounces of the small ring but I don't understand why this problem never occured before...

    The crank is a Shimano M770.
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  3. #3
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    "I'm having some major slipping" Slipping or skipping? Never heard of the term slipping used for a ring /chain issue. I'd suggest a new chain.

  4. #4
    g3h6o3
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    Slipping, the chain literally jumps a couple of teeth and sometimes drops partially or completely.

    The chain and cassette were changed with the rings.
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  5. #5
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    Is the chain sized properly? The fact that you could remove 4 links makes me wonder.
    What rear cog are you in when this happens?

  6. #6
    g3h6o3
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    The chain was sized properly (using the big-big + 2 links method) but by removing 4 links it's a little short. I cannot use the big-big combo anymore but it's not a big deal, I never do.

    I'm rarely on the small chainring but when I am it's with the 3 smaller sprokets in the rear of a 11-32 cassette. I don't know if it happens on other sprockets but it probably would if I could put enough torque given the chain slips on the front ring. It's very hard for me to say exactly what's happening with the chain as it occurs only when putting the power down and I was unable to reproduce the problem at slower speeds or in a controlled environment. What I do know is that the chain lets go completely of the ring for half a pedal stroke, hence why I call is slipping versus skipping. If really feels like the chain slips on the small ring like it can do with a very worn out chain and cassette combo.
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  7. #7
    psycho cyclo addict
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    I'm wondering if there is something going on in the rear hub or possibly a worn drive shell. Do you have another rear wheel you can mount your cassette on to see if that eliminates the slip?

    I had a similar situation a few years back on my full suspension bike where I'd occasionally get ~1/4 crank rotation with slip. It most often occurred when pedaling hard over rough terrain. I lobbied to get a replacement drive shell from the manufacturer and after a few calls back and forth and me sending pictures one was shipped and it even fixed the problem

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    I'm rarely on the small chainring but when I am it's with the 3 smaller sprokets in the rear of a 11-32 cassette.
    Do I understand what you are saying? You are using the 22 front chain ring with your rear small cogs - probably the 11, 13, 15?

  9. #9
    g3h6o3
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    Slash, I meant the smalelr gears, large sprockets, sorry for the confusion.

    edub: I oiled my CK RingDrive mecanism not too long ago and I have already had this problem and it does a very caracteristic sound I would have recognized. Also, on one occurence, the chain remained off the ring after it slipped so I'm pretty sure the problem is with the small chain ring but I'm very confused as to what could cause this.

    I'm wondering if it's not simply a lack of tension due to a worn rear derailleur; I might not have had the problem previously because of worn teeth that caused the chain to stick to them (hence the chainsuck I was trying to get rid of)? Given this only seems to happen when my rear wheel hits obstacles at a certain speed when putting the power down, the chain dropped completely at least twice and removing links helped a fair amount, it seems like a reasonable assumption...
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  10. #10
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    ...
    edub: I oiled my CK RingDrive mecanism not too long ago and I have already had this problem and it does a very caracteristic sound I would have recognized. Also, on one occurence, the chain remained off the ring after it slipped so I'm pretty sure the problem is with the small chain ring but I'm very confused as to what could cause this.
    ...
    I'm not thinking it is the ring drive that's the issue... it could be wear at the collar on the opposite side of the drive shell (where it snaps in and attaches to the hub) or notching/bunching getting out of spec. When I was having issues, there was no sound... just slip. You could also call CK support and see if they have any suggestions or maybe they might wanna see a pic of your drive shell...

    If you have another wheel you can swap on with your cassette you could rule out the entire drive train other than the hub (just sayin ).

  11. #11
    g3h6o3
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    I have the tool to take it apart so I can give it a try if I have some time.
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  12. #12
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    I have the tool to take it apart so I can give it a try if I have some time.
    Okay; no special tools required...

    Take the wheel off, remove skewer.

    Remove the drive shell from the hub and see if the helical splines look half-worn or there is pitting between the thin black o-ring and where the cassette attaches (instructions below are from the tech service manual):

    Disassembly of the rear bolt-on hub

    The following instructions assume that the drive shell is facing to the right:
    1. Remove cog using a chain whip, and standard Shimano HG-style freewheel tool.
    2. Insert a 3/32 hex wrench into adjusting clamp pinch bolt, and loosen.
    3. With adjusting clamp facing towards you, hold opposite end of axle stationary, and rotate cone in a counter clockwise direction. After one complete revolution the adjusting cone should be free from the axle.
    4. Slide out axle.
    5. Hold hub or wheel in one hand and pull drive shell with other .
    6. Both hub shell and drive shell bearing assemblies can now be accessed.

  13. #13
    g3h6o3
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    You got me alittle confused with all the terminology but what I did was remove the freehub and oil the RingDrive and driveshell as stated in the Basic maintenance of the manual on page 11-12.
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  14. #14
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Blackspire SuperPro 22T major slippage

    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    You got me alittle confused with all the terminology but what I did was remove the freehub and oil the RingDrive and driveshell as stated in the Basic maintenance of the manual on page 11-12.
    The picture below will give you a better idea- left: gouging where cassette attaches, middle: pitting (just left of thin black seal) and right: uneven wear on helical splines.

    ATTACH]818703[/ATTACH][
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blackspire SuperPro 22T major slippage-imageuploadedbytapatalk1374667602.752867.jpg  

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  15. #15
    g3h6o3
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    The splines looked fine when I oiled them on the drive shell. I will have a second more cautious look however.

    I could also put back the old small ring and see what happens.
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  16. #16
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    Here's a dumb question. Have you checked the spacing between the new rings vs. the spacing between the old rings?

    I swapped a different set of shimano rings onto my crankset and ended up with incorrect spacing since I didn't check the new rings were the same model number as the originals. I ended up having to run the smaller ring flipped to get it running right.

  17. #17
    g3h6o3
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    All rings have had the same spacing for years now, you probably installed it wrong...
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  18. #18
    g3h6o3
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    I did a quick experiment yesterday: I put the Shimano ring back for a ride and everythin was fine as far as slipping. SO the problem is defijtely the Blackspire ring. I'll try to contact them again, they have been responsive in the past...
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  19. #19
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Curious if you found the culprit...

  20. #20
    g3h6o3
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    Not yet,
    I send the ring back to Blackspire and got some news yesterday. They say they cannot reproduce the problem and offer no help whatsoever. They blame the chain (KMC X9.93) but they also blamed my whole setup which is brand spanking new chain, cassette and rings.

    So when the ring gets back, I'll install a new rear derailleur with a better spring and we'll see what gives. I'll possibly also try it with a different chain or on a different bike... What si sure is that I have had 0 problems since reverting to the Shimano chainring and nothing else has changed on the drivetrain.
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  21. #21
    Trouser Malfunction
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    22T for a CR sometimes demands a specific FreeHub body, they extrapolate so much torque at the crank.

    That in mind, you seem convinced newness of each part of your drivetrain mean it will do nothing but perform well. Taking your OE 28T off, dropping your Chainline in that gear to a lower working-angle and plane - all while having a rear axle trying to track variances in terrain - there is the strong possibility you're pulling the chain down and away at that wrap over the new, small, CR; the wrap at the cassette is also trying to balance the suspension at all times.

    Your rear suspension could really only want to have a straightline pull of torque at what was spec'd w/ the bike. So while all parts are new/unworn - altering the balance of crank-induced isolation and also traction-capable suspension - you seem to be overdriving the suspension design.

    Try another 22T CR instead of a different size; it's irrelevant.
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  22. #22
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Blackspire SuperPro 22T major slippage

    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Not yet,
    I send the ring back to Blackspire and got some news yesterday. They say they cannot reproduce the problem and offer no help whatsoever. They blame the chain (KMC X9.93) but they also blamed my whole setup which is brand spanking new chain, cassette and rings.

    So when the ring gets back, I'll install a new rear derailleur with a better spring and we'll see what gives. I'll possibly also try it with a different chain or on a different bike... What si sure is that I have had 0 problems since reverting to the Shimano chainring and nothing else has changed on the drivetrain.
    Someone in another thread flipped a Blackspire chainring exhibiting similar symptoms and that worked...

    I just installed my 1st KMC x9.93 chain on a hard tail build (that now has 300+ mi. on it). I installed used Blackspire 44/32/22 super pro rings and a used XT cassette... No slipping goin on. I also installed an XTR M986 shadow plus rear derailleur and Sram XO 9-speed shifters for no chain slap axxion.
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