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  1. #1
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    10 Speed Drive Train?

    I heard a rumor that both Shimano and Sram are developing a 10 speed drive train. My question, is do we really need 10 speed drive trains?

    I think 9 speed is more than enough. If the rest of you argree with me, how do we get the word out to Shimano and Sram, and tell them no thanks to 10 speed drive trains?

    What do the rest of you thinkg about this?

  2. #2
    56-year-old teenager
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    Heck, I was happy with 8 speed!

    They're already building road bikes with 10 speed cassettes, so I figure it's just a matter of time til we get them on MTBs too. Whether we "need" them or not...

  3. #3
    College Boy
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    I willing to bet we will seem them in the next few years. Only problem is that means the chain has to get narrower and weaker and mtn already are very destructive to chains.

    Also SRAM better keep a powerlink in there 10speed. RIght now there 10speed chain does not have one.

    LIke the guy above I was just fine with a 7 speed. I currently have an 8 which I think is a little nicer but really it just more gears I never really use. I still sit and use the same 3 gears I did on a 7 speed.

  4. #4
    Master of None
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    I use a 6 speed cassette made with 9 speed LX cogs so I get a better chainline for the 1x6 setup. 6 is more than enough! I had 5 and that was fine, but the shift ramps worked out better with 6 cogs.

    I think this 10 speed is just a case of "more is better."

  5. #5
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    I have 9 speed, on the road, I sometimes want a gear a half a gear different than I have.

    I can always drop to 2 chain ring and go up a couple, to find a sweet spot, but it would be nice to have some in betweeners.

    Other than that I like the 11-34 range on 8 or 9 speed.

  6. #6
    College Boy
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    I bet I can guess what the chain ring set up would be for a 10 speed. Take a 32-11 9 speed and put on a 34T at the top. To me that is just useless because I never really use the 32T rear cog as it is.

  7. #7
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    11-29t

    Campy 10 spd cassette
    It's awesome.
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  8. #8
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Great! Bring It On!

    They invent enough other technology to shove down our throats so why not 10spd rears?

    If you're concerned about durability...please!

    10 spd has been cyclocrossed for what? 6 or 7 years? 'Cross races are way more brutal on equipment than MTB races or most of the trail riding one would do.
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  9. #9
    College Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    They invent enough other technology to shove down our throats so why not 10spd rears?

    If you're concerned about durability...please!

    10 spd has been cyclocrossed for what? 6 or 7 years? 'Cross races are way more brutal on equipment than MTB races or most of the trail riding one would do.

    yeah maybe so but how offen do you think they have to replace there chains. 10 speed chain is weaker than a 9 speed chain and does break easier. The more you wear on a chain the easier is to break. On a road bike that is not really a worry but on a mtn bike they take a lot more wear and tear than Roadie every will.

    Cyclocross is something completely different and really not a fair comparison because I not quite sure how to place it but from little I read about it those races are a mix between road and mtn. A full out mtn race would always be harder on equipment.

  10. #10
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    Why do you say a 10 speed chain is weaker...

    Pin same diameter, but shorter, therefore less bending and stronger.
    Plates same thickness, but since pins bend less less wear.
    Rollers same but thinner, no difference.

    Now the teeth of the cog are thinner therefore weaker, subject to more wear and bending.

  11. #11
    College Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Why do you say a 10 speed chain is weaker...

    Pin same diameter, but shorter, therefore less bending and stronger.
    Plates same thickness, but since pins bend less less wear.
    Rollers same but thinner, no difference.

    Now the teeth of the cog are thinner therefore weaker, subject to more wear and bending.
    well think about it. When a chain breaks it normally one of the links snapping off the pin bending. A chain takes damage with force trying to push the links off (cross chaining) with a narrow chain it will not all the chain to turn as much of an angle on the cogs before it has to do it bettween the crank and the cogs. It is the link just pulling off the pin. A chain breaking is rearily caused by a pin snapping or a link breaking in 2. instead it cause my a link coming off the the pin.

    Sum it up you a 10 speed chain takes more damage from cross chaining than a 9 speed chain which takes more than an 8speed. Also when we ride our chains are always crossed chain to some degree minus 3 gear combos. So because of the increase wear and tear from cross chaining 10 speeds chains just take more damage. Shifting is harder on them than a 9 speed and so on. Everything is just harder on them causing failure to happen at an much earlier.

  12. #12
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    My thing is I run a 2 X 9 setup on all of my bikes, and find that I still do not use all the gears. So why do I need one more out back? They are mountain bikes, not road bikes.

    What translates on the road does not all ways work on a mountain bike. Take dual control levers for an example. It did not take Sram long to increase its market share once the dual control levers came out. And no matter how many two finger ads that Shimano ran for the dual control levers, most riders were not going for it.

    I say it is time to bring 8 speed back, and forget about 9 and 10 speed. My old 8 speed drive setuos always required less work, and shifted better than the current offerings.

    I feel Shimano and Sram should stop at 9, and improve the internal gear hubs. (i.e. durability and weight)

  13. #13
    56-year-old teenager
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    I have 9 speed, on the road, I sometimes want a gear a half a gear different than I have.
    Same here, but usually that's in the big ring and the little cogs. There's only so many steps possible between an 11T and a 13T cog. Going to 10 or more speeds isn't likely to help me.

  14. #14
    Cheezy Rider
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    If anyone from Shimano is listening, add me to the "9 is more than plenty" camp.

  15. #15
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    I Disagree 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless
    A full out mtn race would always be harder on equipment.
    From personal experience a full-out mountain race (XC) is easier on equipment that a road race or a cyclocross race. XC races are so short I could never log enough miles in a season on a race bike to even justify changing the chain.

    I've been riding 10 speed since it was introduced and have yet to break a chain. As a matter of fact the only chains I've broken were 7spd.

    We can throw actual numbers around if you like but the difference between a 8 and 9 spd chain is pretty small. A much smaller percentage than the number of people that gripe how weak they are.

    Bottom line in my opinion is that if you've been riding long enough to have learned proper shifting technique (ie 6spd friction and prior) you'll never(almost) break a chain. Too many newer riders are enamored with the new fangled gizmos and they never took the time to learn how to RIDE their bike
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  16. #16
    College Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    From personal experience a full-out mountain race (XC) is easier on equipment that a road race or a cyclocross race. XC races are so short I could never log enough miles in a season on a race bike to even justify changing the chain.

    I've been riding 10 speed since it was introduced and have yet to break a chain. As a matter of fact the only chains I've broken were 7spd.

    We can throw actual numbers around if you like but the difference between a 8 and 9 spd chain is pretty small. A much smaller percentage than the number of people that gripe how weak they are.

    Bottom line in my opinion is that if you've been riding long enough to have learned proper shifting technique (ie 6spd friction and prior) you'll never(almost) break a chain. Too many newer riders are enamored with the new fangled gizmos and they never took the time to learn how to RIDE their bike
    does not change the fact that the chains are weaker. People all make bad shifts and mtn riding is a lot harder per mile than road riding. The chain is slapping around.

    I know for a fact that sram does not have a power link in there 10spd chain but they do in there 9. It just starting to get narrorw and narrow and the stress on the chain increases.

    I could put other reason other than strenght why I think it a bad idea. We have enough problems getting a 9 speed chain to work and line up right. It hard enough to get to shift it. It require more fine tuning and 9 speed bad enough. The front derailure will get even narrorow which mean chain rube will be come even worse.

    And we can all guess exactly the difference betteen a 9 speed and a 10 speed rear. The 10 speed is take a 32-11t 9 speed cog and put a 34t on the rear. After that not anything is going to change. We have not seen a increase in number of teeth on either side since 7 speeds. it just the number of gears bettween 34-11 are increasing.

    I just rather them not shove 10 speeds on us. It will make everyone have to go out and buy new shifters and everything. And make matter worse the 9speed will just be phased out.

  17. #17
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    Sorry I thought about what you say and 10 speed chains are not weaker than 9 speed chains. The side bending in a chain is controlled by the tolerance in the pin holes.

    If you like 8 speeds than, a 10 speed chain with an 8 speed cassette (10 sp spacing) would provide a lighter stronger, and a better shifting set-up.

    I would like a larger big ring with a tighter ratio spread for the road. I think I would like a slightly lower granny.

    I don't think I can have that with an 8 speed.

  18. #18
    Master of None
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    How would a 10 speed spaced cassette shift better than an 8 speed?

    I believe the fact that a 10 speed will wear out faster than an 8/9 speed is undisputed, although I would tend to agree that a 10 speed chain is not weaker than a 9 speed.

  19. #19
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Cogs Are Closer Together

    Its as simple as that
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  20. #20
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    I am only speculating...

    But since 10 speed RD's shift and work well....cause lots of people use them.

    Then an 8 speed cassette spaced for 10 speed (narrower) would have an improved chainline.

  21. #21
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    10 speed road equipment is redundant and useless. 9 speed is more than enough. Cogs are closer, indexing has to be more precise, more tweaking is required to keep the drivetrain shifting flawlessly.

    9 speed is just fine.

    The only way to show companies that we don't want 10 speed drivetrains is to not buy them. Of course, there are too many idiots out there who see 10 speed and think it's going to make them ride that much better. They'll buy it, and 9 speed will be phased out.

    Such is the planned obsolescence of the mountain bike industry.

  22. #22
    Master of None
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    If any manufacturers are listening, I would like a 5 speed cassette designed for an 8 speed size chain, and a trigger shifter to match.

  23. #23
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    Frames, drive trains, everything, it all seems geared more and more to the one season use, racers only need apply business model. How many good tumbles on a carbon fiber frame before you stress a tube in an unengineered for direction? How many race brained big to big crossover gears before a 10 speed chain goes kablooey? Plus, all of this beautiful fragility comes with a higher price tag.

    So should I horde my favorite drive train stuff and stick it in a box to wait out the year or two it takes Shimano and SRAM to step back from the 10 speed thing?

  24. #24
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    I think you can build a cassette like that from cycle dynamics, out of Vancouver.
    You would have to come up with some spacer blanks for 3 cogs.

  25. #25
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Or Out Of The Parts Drawer At Your LBS

    I have over 100 loose cassette cogs sitting around at home and pretty much any established shop should have well more than that. Just go in and tell them what you have in mind.

    As mentioned you will have to come up with some spacers. A Piece of PVC pipe works good to eat up the gap left by the 3 missing cogs and spacers.
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