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  1. #1
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    Is there such thing as a chainguide that won't catastrophically fail??

    E13's believe it or not do fail, and when they do, it's bad. Meaning chain wedged between the backplate and the chainring locking your pedals kind of bad. They also drag like crazy and the bashplate gets bent into the chainring when it takes a sideways hit. They're out.

    My Gamut just dropped chains on the last 5 rides. On the last ride, it lost the chain from the lower roller as I bottomed out the back end through a G-out and it ripped my derailleur off and put it into the rear wheel. This is not the first time in recent history that it has left me walking out of a trail. I hope they warranty this thing and maybe fix it so the chain can't escape when it's set up right since the concept is real nice. I would really like to get the derailleur replaced too as it was pretty much brand new and expensive as hell (new X9) but I doubt that's going to happen.

    Are there any other companies that makes guides that won't horribly F me out on the trail when they mess up and cost me lots of money when they destroy my drivetrain? I know nothing is foolproof but being able to repair it quickly and easily is what I'm after. I'm not too keen on the LG1. I hit way too much stuff, especially from the side. MRP's don't clear on my frame since they don't clear the chainstay yoke. And before anyone suggests it, yes, these guides are set up properly.
    805

  2. #2
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    You haven't left yourself a whole lot of options LOL. Blackspire? Something simple like Transition's guide? Hell I don't know what to tell you.
    Last edited by combatkimura; 07-20-2008 at 11:19 AM.

  3. #3
    StraightOuttaCompton
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    you should get an LG-1 with a taco
    HARDTAIL PRIDE- 09 Kona Five-0

  4. #4
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    why wouldn't this fit......never had a problem in over 6 years of riding on these

    simple and it works

    or look through these

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/brand/?122&p=1
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  5. #5
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    Parts on DH bikes fail. With the amount of abuse they they have to deal with, there's no way a part like a chain guide will last forever. That said, you're just about the ONLY person I've heard complain about e.13's guides (excluding the LG1- what a POS), so perhaps you've either just got extremely bad luck, or don't know how to set them up properly. You can't really complain about it getting bent when you smash into something either, it's not like it was designed to get smashed onto things sideways.

    Try a vanilla style MRP with the upper and lower rollers with the large back plate that sort of sandwiches the chain between the bashgaurd and backplate. If there's a guide that will take the abuse better than any other, it will be that guide.

  6. #6
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    Yeah I wanted to use those old MRP's when I first built the bike up, but the R9 frame won't accept a full backplate w/o hitting the chainstay. I actually just looked at their site and the link to Jenson and some of those look promising. I always liked having the rollers directly over the chainring on both ends so there's no gap at all.

    I think I had one of the older SRS guides. Their over-hyped bulletproof Lexan sucked. The rest of the chainguide was made of super super cheap plastic. The roller dragged like you would not believe. I'm not running anything like the LG-1 unless there's something that completely cradles the bottom of the chainring. Most of the stuff I hit is in narrow chutes from the side (you should see what's left of the sides of my pedals).

    I have enjoyed the Gamut guide up until this point. Out of sight, out of mind. No maintenance to be done on it besides roller spacing and replacing a couple chainring bolts that had rattled themselves out.
    805

  7. #7
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    You should probably set your chainguides up correctly.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  8. #8
    moaaar shimz
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    Try Blackspire stuff.

  9. #9
    Ammar
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    Ive had outstanding succes w/ the Blacksphire stinger. Its cheap, high quality and very durable. I havnt had my chain slip off once since I installed it.


    highly reccomended!!
    i ride transition

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    You should probably set your chainguides up correctly.
    I'm gonna have to agree. I run a gamut guide and its hard for me to imagine how you're losing a chain every time unless something is horribly out of whack

  11. #11
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    Kevin, I've had this Gamut on my bike since the end of lift season last year. It has been perfectly fine since then. The only thing that has needing adjusting is the lower roller spacing. I think it might just be getting worn out and flexing too much or something, no idea. The E13 guides were also set up by the book. They're losing the chain because there's just enough gap between the bash and the upper guide/roller than the chain can squeeze through when it's flexed. Hence why I like the MRP idea of the roller going over the entire gap on the top and the bottom.
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  12. #12
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    I don't know Gordon, but I've ran two LG1's and I've never had a problem with either. Set yourself plenty of time to set it up, and don't be lazy, be willing to use the gold washers to get the guide chainline correct and rolling smooth.

    A lot of guides out there work really efficiently when setup correctly. I don't doubt your ability to set it up properly.

    With that I say LG1. Mount it with the BB Adapter and you'll be fine with a taco. I've been running a taco on my LG1 mounted to ISCG tabs and I've smacked it plenty. Its fine.
    Northstar 2008 Riding Crew

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    You should probably set your chainguides up correctly.
    I would agree. I think you are having to deal with setup issues, and not the product itself.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Kevin, I've had this Gamut on my bike since the end of lift season last year. It has been perfectly fine since then. The only thing that has needing adjusting is the lower roller spacing. I think it might just be getting worn out and flexing too much or something, no idea. The E13 guides were also set up by the book. They're losing the chain because there's just enough gap between the bash and the upper guide/roller than the chain can squeeze through when it's flexed. Hence why I like the MRP idea of the roller going over the entire gap on the top and the bottom.
    You've definately got it setup wrong. the only way there could be a gap big enough for the chain to get caught between the upper slider and bashring is if a) the bashring is too small, b) the slider is not set to the proper height, or c) both.

    When I first started using the SRS I would have the same thing, but it was because my bash was WAY to small, and with the slider set at the proper height there was still gap. With the proper size bash and proper slider height there will be no gap and what you describe will not be able to happen.

    And as far as the backplate being made of "cheap plastic", you need to lay off the bong (that might be why your bike is set up haggard-like to begin with ). It's made of CNC'd aluminum. I'm pretty sure you're also the only person in the world that has claimed the Supercharger bash of sucking.

  15. #15
    EastBaySteez
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    I have NEVER have my Gamut P20 drop a chain, either a 32 or a 34 tooth ring. Sounds like you need a washer on the top limiter. Talk to Scott. The derailleur issue sounds like a problem with SRAM or the derailleur hanger not gamut.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    The derailleur issue sounds like a problem with SRAM or the derailleur hanger not gamut.
    No, you are retarded, it has to do with the chain dropping and the locking everything up.....

  17. #17
    EastBaySteez
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    The fact still comes down to its nearly impossible to drop a chain with a properly set up Gamut.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    The fact still comes down to its nearly impossible to drop a chain with a properly set up Gamut.
    Or e.13, blackspire, raceface etc

  19. #19
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    the LG-1 w/ taco has done well and its light.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Or e.13, blackspire, raceface etc
    I've had bad luck with e.13's. I was at a Giant Demo day here in the bay. Rode a bran new glory, I had to take it back to the tent 4 times and they still couldnt get the guide set up right. They even called e.13 to try and trouble shoot.

    I've installed a few gamuts, all you do it bolt them on and your set. Maybe put a washer on the top limiter thats it.
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  21. #21
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    i've had some problems in the past with a raceface guide and when i finally got tired of jamming the chain between the top guide and the bashring i decided to enclosure the chain in a homemade lg1 style. like this. Never had a problem again and it took me an hour to do it.
    i'll never use another kind of guide.

    <a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8290/foto049kp2.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=156&i=foto049kp2.jpg"><img src="http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8290/foto049kp2.f5b262e51a.jpg" border="0"></a>

  22. #22
    N* Bomber Crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    I've had bad luck with e.13's. I was at a Giant Demo day here in the bay. Rode a bran new glory, I had to take it back to the tent 4 times and they still couldnt get the guide set up right. They even called e.13 to try and trouble shoot.

    I've installed a few gamuts, all you do it bolt them on and your set. Maybe put a washer on the top limiter thats it.
    That's weird...

    Between me and my friend we've setup and ran 4 e13 LG1's. All of them ran flawlessly.
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  23. #23
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    Nothing is fail-proof. That's a fact. The blanket statement that "if it fails it's set up wrong" is a shortsighted cop-out for poor design.

    There is a couple mm of gap along the top guide, but when the chain is being yanked against it from being derailled over the bottom roller, it flexes, and a gap opens up. It is set up the exact same way that brand new Demo 8's are set up with the same guide. ALSO, the chain is the correct length and has no problem cycling through the travel without the shock in the frame (when the chain is actually on the guide and able to move). Trust me, I take my time and set up my stuff damn well. I can take pictures later to substantiate this.

    The derailleur issue comes from being ripped off upon bottom out from there not being any slack in the chain due to, guess what, a locked up chainguide. Also note that the Gamuts have non-adjustable height on the upper guide, only side-to-side spacing. The upper guide also isn't the issue here. It derails over the rather large gap between the bash and the lower roller, THEN gets yanked out of the upper guide when the chain is off the ring and pulling towards the inside. The lip on the rollers just aren't tall enough (yes, I have a new one on there). That is just a design flaw.

    So looked over the damage on the bike a bit closer. It is going to cost me: new derailleur, new hanger, new rear wheel build and maybe a rim, chain, and possibly the cassette. I'm planning on going for the MRP guide unless Gamut can do something about the poor guide design and the blown up back end. To be honest, I'm just expecting to have to shell out a few hundred to get the bike usable again. The bike industry just doesn't have the margins to be able to fix collateral damage like the auto industry can (example: Thule fixing damage to the rest of YOUR car when THEIR retaining devices fail).

    The Gamut has been fine up until this point and I think the backplate is just able to flex too much after having the chain yanked out of it a few too many times due to the worn roller before. If a worn guide is that catastrophic and they can't alter their design to be more durable then I think I'm going on to one of the new MRP's.

    Anyone have a spare X9 or WTB Dual Duty 32h????
    805

  24. #24
    EastBaySteez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptordude
    That's weird...

    Between me and my friend we've setup and ran 4 e13 LG1's. All of them ran flawlessly.
    LG1's are almost fool proof.
    I was talking about the SRS's My bad.
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  25. #25
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    I have the same problem with my gamut. I lost the chain twice on one run this morning. The gamut is good idea but the backplate has too much flex because they tried to make it too light and the rollers arent adjustable up and down so when things wear there is a gap that the chain can pop out.
    Last edited by jamesdc; 07-21-2008 at 10:57 PM.

  26. #26
    SS FR HT
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    Machine your own, my chainstay kept dropping chains so i did a little modding and bent it to fit right. Haven't dropped a chain since.
    Quote Originally Posted by Formerbmx37
    so if a put a card in my spokes could i trick people in to thinking my bike is good

  27. #27
    Locs on Spokez
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    That sucks that the mrp won't fit. Maybe grind down the part thats in the way? I've had mine for 2 years, bolted it on and haven't had a single problem since day 1. Not 1 dropped chain
    Ground Steeze. @iggy_strbac

  28. #28
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    I meant that the "sandwich style MRP's would not fit. Meaning the ones where there's a full circle backplate. I wasn't even aware that they had boomerang plated ones now that didn't require the backplate.
    805

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    LG1's are almost fool proof.
    I was talking about the SRS's My bad.
    which for all intents and purposes the exact same guide. They use the same back plate, they utilize the exact samd color coded washers to space the plate, and the spacing is the exact same. The ONLY difference is that the srs uses the bash as the outer plate of the top guide, where as the LG1 uses an enclosed upper guide that does not need the guide to limit cahin freedom.


    TO the O/P if you are breaking e-13 bashes, you are not following proper set up. Tight chainring bolts will spider crack the poly, and many petro chemicals will attack it (loctite, petolium distilates)...As for the chain comming off the top, or getting behind the chainring....again another set-up issue, sorry, but it is.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I meant that the "sandwich style MRP's would not fit. Meaning the ones where there's a full circle backplate. I wasn't even aware that they had boomerang plated ones now that didn't require the backplate.

    too funny u didn't know about the MRP's with a boomerang.....they have been out since 2003 as far as I know
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    too funny u didn't know about the MRP's with a boomerang.....they have been out since 2003 as far as I know
    Boomerang's alone without the second full circumference backplate I meant. I was only aware of the "sandwich" style ones and another one that had a 3/4 circumference backplate that was just too horrible to install/align, but that thing was way oldschool.
    805

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    TO the O/P if you are breaking e-13 bashes, you are not following proper set up. Tight chainring bolts will spider crack the poly, and many petro chemicals will attack it (loctite, petolium distilates)...As for the chain comming off the top, or getting behind the chainring....again another set-up issue, sorry, but it is.
    I haven't been breaking E13 bashes. I never had any problems with hairlining the chaingring bolt areas? I was mashing the edges of it so it would interfere with the chain and chainring, ie really fatass flat spots on it. Result was having to pull it and dremel off the lip that came from the flat spot and replace a chain because it wore into it.

    Again, chains coming off the top is a wear/durbility issue for these types of guides (vs dual plate). I know how to set up a wheel and a pulley...


    What's funny is that now that I mention this to people, I'm starting to hear all kinds of the same thing about Gamuts dropping the chains over the lower roller in similar fashion. Weird.
    805

  33. #33
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    How much space between you lower roller on your Gamut? There shouldn't be much there. I do not have any problems dropping chains on mine, been running Gamuts for a couple seasons now. But, you need to space the boomerang out correctly, and adjust the roller outboard. There should not be much room there.

    On the upper guide on my Gamut, I adjust it outboard until it rubs a little in the large rear cogs then grind off a little bit of the guide until the fit is exact.

    I ride a lot of really rocky terrain where your bike really gets to bouncing around and I have zero chain drop issues. But, when I got my first Gamut and didn't take the setup to these lengths, I did have a couple issues where the chain came off.

    hope this helps.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdc
    I have the same damn problem with my fvcking gamut. I lost the chain twice on one run this morning. I'm going to buy on old school mrp system 1 or 2 because I NEVER lost a chain with one of those. The gamut is good idea but the backplate has too much flex because they tried to make it too light and the rollers arent adjustable up and down so when things wear there is a gap that the chain can pop out. The gamut is going to meet with a lighter and a can of gas because I am done with this thing
    I'll take it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdc
    I have the same damn problem with my fvcking gamut. I lost the chain twice on one run this morning. I'm going to buy on old school mrp system 1 or 2 because I NEVER lost a chain with one of those. The gamut is good idea but the backplate has too much flex because they tried to make it too light and the rollers arent adjustable up and down so when things wear there is a gap that the chain can pop out. The gamut is going to meet with a lighter and a can of gas because I am done with this thing
    Got a picture of what the gap looked like? My Gamut is making weird noises as of lately. I hope this doesn't happen on the trail to me.

  36. #36
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    I'm running the MRP G2

    I like that it is a taco design that protects the bottom roller. Upper cage is very adjustable up and down and in and out with washers. Also, as little drag as I have ever experienced in a guide. It is working very well so far but only have this season to date on it.
    Before that, was using the sandwich style plates with the two roller boomerangs. Worked well with iscg but not so much on a bike without as they would rotate on me. Before that, a DRS that kinda worked but would drop to lower ring on me on the rough stuff. Better than completely but not doing its job completely if you ask me.

    Look into the MRP G2, my favorite so far.

  37. #37
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    normally I wouldn't comment on something that "sounds" obvious .... but you sound like a bit of a hack.

    - regularly throwing your chain, causing major costly damage, using a guide that hundreds (thousands?) of other riders use without any issues? Try letting somebody else install your next guide. It can't hurt and maybe you'll find you've been doing something wrong.

    - regularly smacking your bashguard so hard that you have to file "fatass flat spots" off in order to remain useable? Finesse: it's not just a shampoo anymore.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Kevin, I've had this Gamut on my bike since the end of lift season last year. It has been perfectly fine since then. The only thing that has needing adjusting is the lower roller spacing. I think it might just be getting worn out and flexing too much or something, no idea. The E13 guides were also set up by the book. They're losing the chain because there's just enough gap between the bash and the upper guide/roller than the chain can squeeze through when it's flexed. Hence why I like the MRP idea of the roller going over the entire gap on the top and the bottom.

    With the e.13 it just sounds like you need to space your backplate out a tad more.

    As far as the gamut goes, again just sounds like you need to space it correctly. There's not a whole lot of flex going on in the system.


    Either way, there are thousands of people using these things (including me) who have used both guides for years without a single problem. Calling the design poor doesn't really fly. You're in the minority. If the design were at fault, that wouldn't be the case.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  39. #39
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    "Smooth" is not a word that is commonly used to describe my riding (although about half the rocks that hit my guide are just loose rocks that get kicked up off the front wheel, not from casing stuff). I usually try to ride my stuff pretty hard, and build it so I can do just that. I do, however, take very good care of my stuff mechanically. AND I have had two other people set up the guide after it had dropped chains. It STILL will drop it. What's funny is that I have heard from quite a few other people over the last couple days about this with Gamut guides that drop the chain off to the inside through rough sections when properly set up (yes, actually properly set up).

    As for the flex, you'd be very surprised, and you'd also be surprised just how much leverage can be put on the chain that translates into lateral force against the backplate when it's derailled when the suspension takes a hit or when you put your weight into the end of the cranks. It ends up being a lot more force than you could humanly exert against the guide directly, so don't expect it to flex as much if you were to just put it on an edge with both hands on the ends and pushing down.

    Err - how much space between my lower roller and what? The chainring? In what gear? The flaw here is that you have to have the thing backed off just enough for the chain not to want to "climb" over the roller as you're pedalling in first gear, but at that point there's enough room for it to get yanked off. I usually dial it in a bit from there to close the gap and deal with the drag so it would appear that there is no gap for the chain to escape through. Again, lip isn't tall enough.

    As one of my buddies said today about his P40, "when they say P40 I think they mean 40t only" since his 36t ring had been dropping (I run a 38t).
    805

  40. #40
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    Thanks for making me nervous for choosing Gamut!

  41. #41
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    Dude, if nothing on the market is working for you...make your own

    Never had my e-13 srs fail except for once when it was set-up wrong when I got a smaller bashguard

    If you're riding as hard as you say, everything is going to break no matter what you do to it, so just ride stuff till it breaks


    Maybe some trails-style bashguards might help..those are extremely strong, but heavy

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    "
    As one of my buddies said today about his P40, "when they say P40 I think they mean 40t only" since his 36t ring had been dropping (I run a 38t).

    Thats the main fault in gamuts design, the rollers arent adjustable up and down like mrp or e13 to accomodate different size chainrings. Thats why I run a p30 witch is designed for a 36t max witch is the chainring I run. Even then i still drop the chain fairly easily and its gotten alot worse when I switched from sram back to shimano saint so the chainis flying all over the place through the rocks.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    "
    As one of my buddies said today about his P40, "when they say P40 I think they mean 40t only" since his 36t ring had been dropping (I run a 38t).
    have big bill fabricated for you
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick.
    normally I wouldn't comment on something that "sounds" obvious .... but you sound like a bit of a hack.

    - regularly throwing your chain, causing major costly damage, using a guide that hundreds (thousands?) of other riders use without any issues? Try letting somebody else install your next guide. It can't hurt and maybe you'll find you've been doing something wrong.

    - regularly smacking your bashguard so hard that you have to file "fatass flat spots" off in order to remain useable? Finesse: it's not just a shampoo anymore.
    going to agree with that^. how the **** are rocks , mind you "loose" rocks flying up and bashing flatspots into your guide?, you either no longer need to ride or learn how to ride cuz your problem seems like not a manufacturer problem but an individual problem

    and p.s. use MRP, they rock

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick.
    normally I wouldn't comment on something that "sounds" obvious .... but you sound like a bit of a hack.

    - regularly throwing your chain, causing major costly damage, using a guide that hundreds (thousands?) of other riders use without any issues? Try letting somebody else install your next guide. It can't hurt and maybe you'll find you've been doing something wrong.

    - regularly smacking your bashguard so hard that you have to file "fatass flat spots" off in order to remain useable? Finesse: it's not just a shampoo anymore.
    LOL. Where you from (probably east coast)? ever ridden with DHIdiot? He's no hack. Well, if he's a hack, then I should just stop riding. Trails here are rocky, and your bike gets destroyed, fact.

  46. #46
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    hey gordon, have you checked the boomerang yet? I just checked mine and the damn thing is bent, The upper part of the boomerang is only bent maybe a mm or 2 but the lower portion is bent at least a few mm's witch is easily enough to let the chain jump off. The thing is the boomerang has never been hit on anything and it was bent inward so it had to have been done by the chain. I'm going to see if i can find a piece of 1/4 plate aluminum and cut a new boomerang with less cutouts so it will be stiffer.
    Last edited by jamesdc; 07-21-2008 at 03:41 PM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    Thanks for making me nervous for choosing Gamut!
    You made a good choice IMO. Chainguides are in one of the worst places on a bike for damage. I'm trying an LG1 right now after running Gamut's for the last 2 seasons. The LG1 came on my new bike though, so I'm giving it a shot.

    DHidiot: Sounds like you need this:
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  48. #48
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    Or Truvativ Hammerschmidt...

  49. #49
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    damn i was just going to post the GT G-box......
    Quote Originally Posted by Formerbmx37
    so if a put a card in my spokes could i trick people in to thinking my bike is good

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsapfreerider
    damn i was just going to post the GT G-box......
    Its funny cause I was riding that with him when this all happened...

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