Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315

    New Saint M820 brake set-up. Help needed.

    I'm a bit underwhelmed.
    I rode mine for the first time yesterday. I switched out my rear X9 for the new Saint 820 on a 180mm rotor. I probably don't know all the jargon to explain this properly, but once I had reach dialed I found I had to pull the lever practically into my other fingers to get any sort of stopping force. With the X9, contact adjustment was so easy and I could ease the brakes through different levels of stopping power. I absolutely love the feel on downhill where I don't want to lock up on rocks but like sweet spots between no brake and full power. I figured Saint brakes would be even better with this.
    With the M820, that in-between range was not very obvious. I don't doubt the power, but the lack of brake activation throughout lever pull bothered me. The line was re-bled and I took care to take a few runs down a long street to get things broken in before hitting the trail. So, I don't think that's the issue.
    If any of you have tips on how to fix this, I'd really like to hear them. The free-stroke adjust didn't offer any distinguishable changes. I even wondered if Avid rotors are thinner than Shimano? That may be dumb but it would explain why the pads aren't maknig contact faster...
    Anyway, I really want to like the M820, but I need some advice on how to set it up properly or I'll be heading back to the X9s.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: howardyudoing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    284
    are your pads bed in yet? it should take a few actual DH trails before you really feel the bite.

  3. #3
    Huffy Rider
    Reputation: motochick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,376
    Bleed them again, until they work right. There is air in there somewhere.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Well, I attempted to get a good bed before riding for a few hours, but the pads might need a little more time.
    it came as a pre-bled set, but with the odd feel it was bled again.

    It's not a lack of bite or power that's bothering me, but the fact that it takes so much lever pull to finally feel it engage the pad. I'm kind of a brake newbie, here... Is there a way to set the pads to sit closer to the rotor on either side? That would shorten the distance of free movement before contact with the rotor and might help.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,126
    Did you bleed them with the bleed block installed? I've just got a set I will be bleeding in the next few days, but mine have been on for probably 2 weeks or so and aren't having any issues, even after I shortened the lines.

    From what I understand of the directions I read on Shimano's site, the bleed block makes sure to set the right fluid level so the lever throw/pad contact is correct. But as I said, no first hand experience yet.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    From what I understand of the directions I read on Shimano's site, the bleed block makes sure to set the right fluid level so the lever throw/pad contact is correct..
    Could you possibly post a link to that page, please?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,126
    Here you go:

    brake bleed link

    There's also a great how to video on this site here: Log In | Shimano T.E.C.

    but you have to sign up and what not.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Thank you very much. Reading over that, it does seem like there could still be some air in there. It's just odd that it came pre-bled from Shimano like that.

    Anyway, if there are other tips for fine tuning Saint brakes, please share. If third bleed doesn't work then I'm not sure what to do.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,126
    Sign up on the site and watch that video. It's VERY detailed, but I've not compared it to the pdf doc I posted.

    They should be good to go direct from Shimano, but mistakes do happen.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    203
    Bleed blocks are garbage....

    Bleed the brakes on the bike using Avid syringes. Once you have all the air out, remove the syringe at the master cylinder and close up the port. Now with the syringe still attached at the calliper and the bleed port open, push more fluid into the system. You will see the pads move inwards. Once you get the pads where you want, close up the bleed port.

    If you want you can have your brake levers set up like a hairpin trigger. The only limitation is how straight the rotor is.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeRidin' View Post
    Bleed blocks are garbage....

    Bleed the brakes on the bike using Avid syringes. Once you have all the air out, remove the syringe at the master cylinder and close up the port. Now with the syringe still attached at the calliper and the bleed port open, push more fluid into the system. You will see the pads move inwards. Once you get the pads where you want, close up the bleed port.

    If you want you can have your brake levers set up like a hairpin trigger. The only limitation is how straight the rotor is.
    That's a great idea. I'll give it a try this weekend.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeRidin' View Post
    Bleed blocks are garbage....

    Bleed the brakes on the bike using Avid syringes. Once you have all the air out, remove the syringe at the master cylinder and close up the port. Now with the syringe still attached at the calliper and the bleed port open, push more fluid into the system. You will see the pads move inwards. Once you get the pads where you want, close up the bleed port.

    If you want you can have your brake levers set up like a hairpin trigger. The only limitation is how straight the rotor is.

    This will work, but is really a bit more than you need to do. Just take the bleed block that came with the brakes, and file it thinner, taking off equal amounts from both sides so the pistons move out an even amount. Then just bleed using the shimano funnel at the lever. The bleed block being thinner will allow more fluid in the system.

    Once youre done bleeding put everything back together. Then just pull your caliper off, squeeze the brake a little, then replace and test the amount of lever pull. Repeat until you are staisfied.

    Every brake I have run has required this to get the lever pull where I want it. I run the new XT's on my AM bike and discovered that I can use this method and get the brake actuation almost instantaneous, but still not have any brake rub. My DH bike had 810 Saints that once you got the lever throw down to a certain point there was just going to be rub, but I just learned to live with it on a DH bike. Im in the process of upgrading to 820's on the DH bike, and assume I will find the same success with setting the lever pull for that as with the XT's (same design)

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    This is great stuff. Thank you all for your help. Looking forward to trying it out tomorrow.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    200
    so? Did you get your bakes dialed payton? Im thinking about "upgrading" my m785 2012 xt brakes to some m820 2013 brakes in hopes of a bit more modulation when the brakes are really hot... So am curious to see if you got your brakes working well..

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Well, my buddy went to interbike and participated in a shimano brake bleed theory class. He talked to some techs about the issue and says he has a few things to try. I have the free stroke screw all the way out for more sensitivity and it's better, but it's still lacking. I also have the lever further from the bar than I like because when I dial it in to a comfortable position then I lose power and it pulls into my fingers. My buddy also ordered some different kind of bleed kit which we can hopefully try soon.
    I really notice the brake issue on this one section of DH single track where I overshoot a small table, whip right for a tree lined left turn at the landing that immediately leads into a rough dive to a wall ride with a sandy base. There's a lot of variables there that I handled with no issue at all with X9. Now I feel less in control and I have to muscle things around much more. Overall, I'm way more conscious of the rear brake whereas I used to just ride fluidly without concern.
    Hopefully we can fix this with another bleed and a little finesse.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    I wish I could offer more about performance over long park runs. I only put on the saint rear after several days in Angel Fire with a x7 lever/X9 caliper front combo because my buddy broke my X9 lever right before my trip. The Saint didn't arrive in time. ll I know is that odd SRAM combo feels better than what I have now.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,521
    i fitted the new saits to my bike just before my whistler trip, ( did the last 3 weeks in september) overall the brakes worked fine, i was very impressed, they have great looks feel and power. they modulate very well, and held up on the long decents from the garbo zone, the only complaint i have was the inconsistant bite point, the brake would still work fine and modulate well but i would never really know where exactly in the lever stroke the pads would engage, 97% of the time it would be close to the bar, which is how i set them up, but the other 3% of the time it could be right at the top of the lever pull, or in the middle of the lever pull, it's weird cant really explain it, i just learned to live with it and get on with it.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,126
    I've got two sets of these, on on the trail bike and one on the DH bike. I'd heard about the varying bite point, and think it happened to me a handful of times. But it was so rare, everytime I thought I felt it, on the very next lever pull it was gone, so I thought nothing of it. Almost made me feel like maybe I'd just imagined it or something.

    Until Saturday. Took the DH bike to the shore and shuttled Seymour. Rode down the road in near freezing temps to the CBC trail head (maybe a mile I guess, give or take,) with the brakes lightly on the whole way. All of us did, weren't taking any chances with the road wet and so cold out.

    Got into the trail head and started riding, and I barely had to touch the lever and they were locked up. Instead of coming back close to the bars like normal, they were fully engaged way out from the bar. And pretty much stayed that way the whole ride down CBC. A few times they returned to normal, but not many. Really screwed up my riding. The last few trails we rode they did return to normal however.

    No idea what happened. I spent 2 days at Whistler with them and no issues, and they have not done this on my trail bike either.

    Called Shimano, and they said they hadn't heard of it happening, and offered to replace them. So not sure what is going on.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KAZU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    126
    Hi I have 3 sets of Saint brakes with icetech rotors on three different bikes for over a year. I ride at Highland MTB park at least every weekend.

    I have never had to bleed them, but I had the same problem with all sets with the bite point.

    I have fixed this problem with a razor blade.

    1) I crank out the reach adjustment to furthest away from the grip.

    2) I remove the caliper

    3) I slide the fat part of the razor blade between the brake pads( make sure the razor blade is clean).

    4) I pump the lever over and over until the pads grip tightly the fat part of the razor blade and the lever feels solid.

    5) I then dial back my reach adjustment to where I want it.

    Essentially you are moving more fluid from the reservoir at the lever end to the caliper end.

    When my pads wear down I do it again. When I put new pads in I use the orange spacer thingy to push the pads out, swap the pads and go through the steps again.

    I you want a lesser bite point find something thicker than the razor blade.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315

    Update

    Finally, my buddy bled my brake with his new Shimano PRO bleed kit. Before, we had just been using syringe setups. This one had a cup/funnel that screws into the lever. We filled it up and pumped it with the rotor and then again ever so slightly without the rotor. I screwed the bite adjust all the way in and out again to ensure every possible bit of oil could fill. Now, the bite point is right where I wanted it and I'm experiencing the power I had expected. No more pulling the lever into my fingers.
    My local trails aren't that long. So, I can't offer anything regarding feel on longer downhills.

    If you don't have the Shimano PRO bleed kit with the screw-on funnel, get it. It's so much easier than syringes and it ensures every last bit of air is out of the line.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kdiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    586
    Thanks for the update! I've been wanting a pair of 820's but I've been waiting for more feedback while I save up.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Sleevem1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    234
    Guys, sorry to hijack thread. I just picked up a set of 820's for new Knolly Chili build. Can anyone recommend rotors that work well with the new saints?
    thanks
    Steve

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleevem1 View Post
    Guys, sorry to hijack thread. I just picked up a set of 820's for new Knolly Chili build. Can anyone recommend rotors that work well with the new saints?
    thanks
    Steve
    i used the new icetec rotors with my 820 saints.... they work well togeather,

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    41
    Hey Peyton
    This is encouraging as I've been really disappointed with my Saint brakes so far. Can you post a link to the Shimano Pro bleed kit you're referring to?

    Cheers

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PeytonP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    315
    Let's see. I think this is what we were using.

    Shimano TL-BT03

    See that little cup/funnel? That's what we used. I haven't had any problems since.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •