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  1. #1
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    K9 Industried DH frame!

    Check this out. Just found it on their website when I was looking for some reducer cups. Anybody heard anything else about this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K9 Industried DH frame!-droppedimage.jpg  

    K9 Industried DH frame!-droppedimage_4.png  

    K9 Industried DH frame!-droppedimage_5.png  

    K9 Industried DH frame!-k9biketest.jpg  


  2. #2
    Shred all that can be
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    Looks flexy....
    "This sticker is dangerous and inconvienent, but I do love Fig Newtons"

  3. #3
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    Does someone always have to say "looks flexy"? I like it. Looks light. Can't wait to see more.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosey
    Does someone always have to say "looks flexy"? I like it. Looks light. Can't wait to see more.
    I have to agree. The whole "looks flexy" thing is DUMB.

  5. #5
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    Steel DH frame, don't see many of those.

    Shame really, seems the perfect material for DH bikes, compact, strong, long lasting can't be formed into dumb swoopy oh rigghhtt...

    K9 seem to do everything properly, so it stands to reason the bike's probably a good one.

  6. #6
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    <object id="mpora_mkrJaWaTx" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" width="480" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://video.mpora.com/p/mkrJaWaTx" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://video.mpora.com/p/mkrJaWaTx" width="480" height="315" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
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  7. #7
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    I agree. The "flexy" thing is dumb. I would love to ride a steel dh bike sometime. I just found some more info in this thing at http://dirt.mpora.com/uncategorized/...l-package.html
    Seems like it would be a great bike for someone who knows exactly what they want out of a bike and knows alot about suspension tuning. Or at least thats what I got out of some of the reading. Hopefully you would get exactly what you want for $4,400.00 for the frameset.

  8. #8
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    Looks very interesting, wouldn't mind trying out a steel dh frame

  9. #9
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    Sweet, they are making my frame! (yes cereal inernet people, I'm kidding!)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K9 Industried DH frame!-crack.jpg  

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    How much travel is this thing gunna have?

  11. #11
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    it still looks flexy
    ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A Select Start

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metanoia
    it still looks flexy
    ur an idiot. It's solid... I'd be suprised if anyone cound break it.

  13. #13
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    looks like it has massive initial rearward travel. sweet.

  14. #14
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    For those who are not aware.... the "looks flexy" thing goes back a year or so on the forums. Do some research and find the thread where the guy posted his bike with severly loose and improperly routed brake/cable lines. Who-ever posted the "looks flexy" in that thread had legendry timing! just fyi.... lol
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

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    A year or so? Nearly ten or so on ridemonkey. Keeping with tradition, does it come in rootbeer?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jager7
    A year or so? Nearly ten or so on ridemonkey. Keeping with tradition, does it come in rootbeer?
    touché ....lol..
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  17. #17
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    looks worse than kona
    I'm from Ukraine, Kiev
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  18. #18
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    Right, since no one has chimed in about this bike, I will.

    This bike is designed by a very intelligent engineer and all around nice guy named Luis Arraiz with a race car engineering / dynamic background. He has done probably the most data logging on bikes since the days of BOS and Nico. The bike is designed for form over function as a pure bred racing machine.

    The bike uses a high virtual pivot that places the IC close to the center of the bike, and the IC doesn't move dramatically through the travel. This is by design and Luis would probably tell you that it makes the bike more predictable, but I'm putting words in his mouth. (And I'm not so sure about that theory myself.)

    There are a few of these floating around the UK race circuit. I did the parking lot test on one and was very surprised at how well it pedalled. Luis mainly uses the CCDB and his specialty is getting it set up exactly how you like it. He will data log your runs, run the data through some algorithms and then tune the shock to maximize traction and absorption while maintain pedaling ability. I believe this kind of setup comes with the purchase price of the bike, and if you know anything about the advantages of proper shock set-up, then you know that this is just about as valuable as the bike itself in terms of getting the proper performance out of your bike on race day.

    Luis has invested a lot in downhill racing and you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer or smarter guy in getting your ride dialled if you've got the money. He's like having your own setup engineer on hand at the races. I'm sure his bike would not disappoint either.

    -Aaron

  19. #19
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    Aaron, thanks for the info. That seems to sum up what I read perfectly. That would be so nice to have the data logging done for you and have a personal setup engineer.

    Where did you get the chance to try one out?

  20. #20
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    Last year Luis attended the British NPS series - I tried it out at the Ft. William NPS, but only in the car park as mentioned. He is based out of Oxford.

  21. #21
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    the suspension design looks kinda funky but i like it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    the suspension design looks kinda funky but i like it.
    The linkage/suspension looks exactly like every other frame out there built by companies afraid to innovate or take chances. At least in my opinion. I would love to see more companies go for linkage that squeezes the shock from both sides like the Evil Revolt.

  23. #23
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    Sounds and Looks cool to me.

    http://www.k9industries.com/K9/Datalog.html
    The bike in use

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archi-Magus
    The linkage/suspension looks exactly like every other frame out there built by companies afraid to innovate or take chances. At least in my opinion. I would love to see more companies go for linkage that squeezes the shock from both sides like the Evil Revolt.
    And what advantage does that provide?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jager7
    A year or so? Nearly ten or so on ridemonkey. Keeping with tradition, does it come in rootbeer?

    rumor has it that the rootbeer color makes it go faster.....

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    And what advantage does that provide?
    Well I don't know enough about suspension to really say, but it seems like it would make it far more progressive. It seems like it would feel like alot more travel than it really is. I've never rode a Revolt and like I said, I don't know alot about suspension so if someone knows otherwise please correct me.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    Right, since no one has chimed in about this bike, I will.

    This bike is designed by a very intelligent engineer and all around nice guy named Luis Arraiz with a race car engineering / dynamic background. He has done probably the most data logging on bikes since the days of BOS and Nico. The bike is designed for form over function as a pure bred racing machine.

    The bike uses a high virtual pivot that places the IC close to the center of the bike, and the IC doesn't move dramatically through the travel. This is by design and Luis would probably tell you that it makes the bike more predictable, but I'm putting words in his mouth. (And I'm not so sure about that theory myself.)

    There are a few of these floating around the UK race circuit. I did the parking lot test on one and was very surprised at how well it pedalled. Luis mainly uses the CCDB and his specialty is getting it set up exactly how you like it. He will data log your runs, run the data through some algorithms and then tune the shock to maximize traction and absorption while maintain pedaling ability. I believe this kind of setup comes with the purchase price of the bike, and if you know anything about the advantages of proper shock set-up, then you know that this is just about as valuable as the bike itself in terms of getting the proper performance out of your bike on race day.

    Luis has invested a lot in downhill racing and you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer or smarter guy in getting your ride dialled if you've got the money. He's like having your own setup engineer on hand at the races. I'm sure his bike would not disappoint either.

    -Aaron
    Carefull, you're getting dangerously close to an informed post - this is the domain of the internet engineer and there is no place for such understanding of the subject!

    Seriously though, Luis Arraiz has recently written a number of articles for Dirt examining the way in which various desgns of bike work and the factors that affect them. It has certainly improved my understanding of the whole thing.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archi-Magus
    Well I don't know enough about suspension to really say, but it seems like it would make it far more progressive. It seems like it would feel like alot more travel than it really is. I've never rode a Revolt and like I said, I don't know alot about suspension so if someone knows otherwise please correct me.
    I was being a bit antagonistic...sorry about that. There seems to be a lot of people out there who think a floating shock magically reduces forces transmitted into the frame and can produce wonderful leverage curves that other bikes can't. Neither is true though.

    Regarding making the leverage curve more progressive, you don't need a floating shock to do that. Although you're right in that the Revolt is quite progressive, you can achieve this with a conventional linkage just as well.

    Floating shocks do provide some small advantages in certain designs, like directing the forces from the rear suspension more efficiently into the front frame so it can be made lighter, saving manufacturing costs by reducing number of machines parts, and allowing additional flexibility in tuning the leverage ratio. (I'm thinking primarily of the Session 88 here.) But in each case (and this K-9 is a good example), I can think of non-floating designs which achieve the same thing.

    Orange Prophet - Those articles in Dirt were definitely good - would recommend them to anyone interested in suspension design. I am guilty of internet engineering on occasion!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    ....and allowing additional flexibility...
    see, it is flexy...


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    There seems to be a lot of people out there who think a floating shock magically reduces forces transmitted into the frame and can produce wonderful leverage curves that other bikes can't. Neither is true though.
    This is true though, because invariably the shock is now sitting between two levers this means the force on the bearings is less than if the shock is mounted directly on the frame.

    Off course something still has to (hehe) compress the shock from both ends, so there is no avoiding that, its just moved from the front triangle to the swing arm(s).

    It also depends on what you call the frame, if to you the "frame" is everything that holds the wheels, fork bb and rider together, then you are right.

    edit: did I just argue with myself and indirectly come to the same conclusion you did? lol

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Orange Prophet
    Carefull, you're getting dangerously close to an informed post - this is the domain of the internet engineer and there is no place for such understanding of the subject!

    Seriously though, Luis Arraiz has recently written a number of articles for Dirt examining the way in which various desgns of bike work and the factors that affect them. It has certainly improved my understanding of the whole thing.
    link to articles?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by essenmeinstuff
    link to articles?
    here

  33. #33
    moaaar shimz
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    There was a big discussion of this bike in Ridemonkey. Here is a pic of the data collection Luis uses.



    I'm intrigued because the patent states:

    "The Applicant has further appreciated that because there is minimal instant centre migration in accordance with the invention, this gives the opportunity of employing an idler or jockey wheel. Thus in preferred embodiments there is provided a jockey wheel mounted on the chassis to act on the chain. Preferably the jockey wheel is positioned such that it provides a tensioned portion of chain which passes through the instant centre line, that is the line described by the instant centre throughout the suspension travel. In other embodiments the jockey wheel is positioned so that the tensioned section of chain lies on a line that passes through the instant-centre. The tensioned section of chain, or the line on which it lies, preferably passes through the instant centre somewhere between a quarter and half-way through the suspension travel, preferably approximately a third of the way through the suspension travel. In some embodiments the chain or the line on which it lies passes through the instant centre at the mid-travel of the suspension. "

    and in the Ridemonkey thread Dave Weagle said:

    "Any time I read anything about chainlines passing through instant centers, the credibility meter definitely pegs somewhere around zero.."

    Hmm.

  34. #34
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    I went back and read that thread - DW comes across as kind of a knob IMO.

    Anyway, I guess the issue is of the accuracy of using the IC for chain induced anti-squat. In the case of the K9, since the IC doesn't migrate too much, it's probably pretty close to the CC.

  35. #35
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    Smells flexy. I'm sure the Rootbeer version will smell sweet and flowery when I't comes out!
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  36. #36
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    I am not sure what it's all about, but I think it needs some more shimz.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosey
    ur an idiot. It's solid... I'd be suprised if anyone cound break it.
    man looks flexy
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  38. #38
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    I would have to be offered this frame for free in order to ride it. I think it may be the fugliest bike ever produced. May ride like a dream, but looks like a nightmare IMO.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by essenmeinstuff
    This is true though, because invariably the shock is now sitting between two levers this means the force on the bearings is less than if the shock is mounted directly on the frame.

    Off course something still has to (hehe) compress the shock from both ends, so there is no avoiding that, its just moved from the front triangle to the swing arm(s).

    It also depends on what you call the frame, if to you the "frame" is everything that holds the wheels, fork bb and rider together, then you are right.

    edit: did I just argue with myself and indirectly come to the same conclusion you did? lol
    The bottom line is that all the riders weight is on the bb in the front triangle. The rear suspension has to support that weight, regardless of how the shock is positioned. The force from the spring will be transferred into the front triangle through various pivots/bearings. The best you can hope for is that the force vectors are in line with the front triangle so that additional reinforcement isn't required.

    We may still be saying the same thing, but in different ways!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    The bottom line is that all the riders weight is on the bb in the front triangle. The rear suspension has to support that weight, regardless of how the shock is positioned. The force from the spring will be transferred into the front triangle through various pivots/bearings. The best you can hope for is that the force vectors are in line with the front triangle so that additional reinforcement isn't required.

    We may still be saying the same thing, but in different ways!
    The only point I was getting at with the floating shock and pivots though through levers is the reduction of force on the front triangle... which will allow lighter construction, the force is moved to the swing arm which is already built to take higher loads.

    Eg a rider weighing 100kg (50/50 weight dist) standing on the pedals with a 3:1 shock ratio would put 1kN on the BB, and 1.5kN on the shock mount.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by essenmeinstuff
    The only point I was getting at with the floating shock and pivots though through levers is the reduction of force on the front triangle... which will allow lighter construction, the force is moved to the swing arm which is already built to take higher loads.

    Eg a rider weighing 100kg (50/50 weight dist) standing on the pedals with a 3:1 shock ratio would put 1kN on the BB, and 1.5kN on the shock mount.
    I'm not sure you engineering adds up here.

    So that dude is going to take off...because he's got a an extra .5 kN pushing the front triangle!!! No, that's not how it works...the forces have to balance out to zero.

    All the forces in the pivots have to add up to the same force the rider is putting on the BB (minus whatever is being held up by the front fork). Regardless of where the shock is positioned. This is freebody diagrams/Statics 101. (And about all I remember from my engineering degree! )

  42. #42
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    all i have to say, DAMN mtbr is SLOW, ive known about this bike for months (same with the new commencial frame, new about that for about a week before it made it here, and i dont think you guys know about the 2011 devinci wilson yet either....)

    EDIT: check out this other video of it being tested at my local dh
    Last edited by bxxer rider; 07-08-2010 at 03:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by [Orge
    ]
    This problem could quite simply be solved if people would stop buying Konas.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bxxer rider
    all i have to say, DAMN mtbr is SLOW, ive known about this bike for months (same with the new commencial frame, new about that for about a week before it made it here, and i dont think you guys know about the 2011 devinci wilson yet either....)

    EDIT: check out this other video of it being tested at my local dh
    You should feel special. Smartie pants

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosey
    How much travel is this thing gunna have?
    178mm. With a Boxxer at that height to match.
    Axle Standards Explained

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    I'm not sure you engineering adds up here.

    So that dude is going to take off...because he's got a an extra .5 kN pushing the front triangle!!! No, that's not how it works...the forces have to balance out to zero.

    All the forces in the pivots have to add up to the same force the rider is putting on the BB (minus whatever is being held up by the front fork). Regardless of where the shock is positioned. This is freebody diagrams/Statics 101. (And about all I remember from my engineering degree! )

    haha well yeah, if you add all the forces up it will be zero, other wise like you say, boing!

    I was just giving you two forces of interest that the front triangle is exposed to for the purpose of discussion because I didn't want to go through and work out all the other static forces on the pivots head tube etc (something I couldn't do with out all the dimensions anyway).

    The point I was making is bb has 1kN on it from 100kg rider standing on it. with a 3:1 leverage ratio the shock mount would have to support 1.5kN assuming 50:50 weight distro. This would be 5kN if the leverage ratio is 10:1 and so on. Basically to show that the peak point load can be much higher on the suspension components due to levers, than the rider puts on the frame (without a lever).

    And yes, all these would cancel somewhere otherwise buddy is accelerating

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona
    You should feel special. Smartie pants
    im just surprised at how slow this international forum is, when a regional forum from the uk hears about it months in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by [Orge
    ]
    This problem could quite simply be solved if people would stop buying Konas.

  47. #47
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    The most interesting frame at the moment in my opinion.

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