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  1. #201
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    Funny. I didn't even see this thread till it got resurrected. I started looking through it and you can see people going from "stupid idea" to "maybe kinda cool" to "I want some if the cranks weren't an issue".

    During that same time frame Atomlab's (excellent) idea for thin pedals started heading out to other manufacturers (i.e. Kona, Corsair, etc.) until the design is now probably (almost certainly) sitting in a little three ring binder in Taiwan alongside other generic pedal designs ready for any company that wants to mass-produce it there. . . Those of us that have ridden these thinner pedals can already vouch for the idea being solid - you don't slip or flip the pedal nearly as often. And the durability of my Wah Wah's is superior to my older Trail Kings and they're both a lot lighter than my durable, but tank-like Crank Brothers. Stuff's getting better all the time. Can't wait till Dean's ideas become mainstream as it represents the ultimate iteration of this concept. Here's to progress.

    BTW - As far as comments about infommercial and name-dropping. I don't know all these people, but I know Krispy. I don't think he stands to gain anything by supporting this product. He is a bike sage and has never led me astray on an idea or product advice - even talking me out of getting more expensive product because he felt it wasn't as good for my needs. Out to improve the sport, not just make a buck.

  2. #202
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    AM, XC sure, but FR and DH, no way. Not to mention this sends all sorts of new shivers down my spine thinking of how it can follow a big rings lead and inbed itself in my leg somehow. Nope, flexy either way.

    I dont think your taking into account the massive amount of G forces that are obtained on a big drop, sure they arent sustained but the spikes cause cracking/shattering where sustained pressure causes bends.

    As for Sedona having DH everywhere like its Mecca to the Jews and Islam has moved out of the house next door...no. Go ride a world class track or even one that Red Bull or the WC use for races...I think the closest one to you is Angelfire, NM that includes it all. Talk about big drops, high speed, rock gardens, clipping rocks at 30-50mph, big air, and wood...[both kinds]...and you get the WC at Angelfire. Its bangin!

    If they dont snap they'll end up in your calf, if they do snap they'll end up in your shin, if they just bend...they'll end up in your calf and you'll have a broken ankle from pedaling through them. No thanks.

    Plus they're ugly.
    "If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." ~ J. Whittaker

  3. #203
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    What gets me them most about these pedals is that not a single one has sold. The two guys that made these busted their butts doing so, and I can be darn sure that this pedal won’t just snap under some fat ass. I can also tell you that the bearings won’t explode, and what ever crankset Dean chose to put them on is good enough for you! I have a low tolerance to the ******** in the bike industry. Ever year a new coat of paint goes on a bunch of the same old stuff and people will drop the cash $$$ on a new look, but when a real innovation comes from practical thinking it gets crapped on. That just makes me cringe.
    Very well written dude.

    I see a lot of naysayers here displaying a distinct lack of knowledge in the fields of mechnical engineering and physics. Especially the "vise test". The basic fact that your test is completely and utterly irrelevant to reality (because you performed it totally OPPOSITE to how a pedal would be loaded in the real world) just goes to show how little you really know. I'm here to tell you from personal experience, Bike Doc is one of the hardest riders you'll ever meet. He's not small, and he's not easy on his equipment. If he can't break them, there's no damn way in hell you're going to. If you don't like the concept, move on to something else.

    Also, if any of you had actually gotten off of your lazy asses and put a bunch of time, effort, thought, money, blood, sweat, tears, etc. into developing an innovative product, don't you think you'd want to get on a public forum such as this one and promote it for Christ's sake?!? All of you guys who are tired of the "info-mercial", why do you keep coming back to this thread? Move on!

    You guys who want the thread deleted cause you're tired of seeing it? Why the F*%K are you here looking at it AGAIN then? Did your mouse click itself? NO!! MOVE ON!!!

    Dean, the production versions look fabulous. Sexy biatches for sure. I'm impressed. Big props dude.
    I just happen to be running Gravity Gaps on my Can-Diggle already (I know good stuff when I see it) Can we work a trade or machine the arms I already have?
    Refusing to grow up since 1978...

  4. #204
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    These are the coolest pedals ever! Where can I buy them, and will they fit to a standard Shimano XT crankset?? I want these on my xc mtb!
    GT Zaskar Carbon 100 9r Pro

  5. #205
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    Sorry
    Interesting Idea, no doubt has benefits
    However ill take a set of blue straitlines any day

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by birkebeiner
    These are the coolest pedals ever! Where can I buy them, and will they fit to a standard Shimano XT crankset?? I want these on my xc mtb!
    The tab at the top of the page with the 1,2,3 on it indicates that there have been 3 pages of discussion on this thread before your post. Perhaps your questions were already answered, several times, in detail....

  7. #207
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    All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    There are performance reasons for everything about the shape and dimensions of FlyPaper Pedals. Bottom line is that they work and work well. Better, in fact, than what I had envisioned. If you are too concerned about what a part of your bike looks like rather than how it performs, I heard that they have some really pretty colors this year at MallWart...

    Your attitude and arrogance is turning me off from this product. Basically, quit talking like a jack ass.

    Oh... and many people DO care about how their bike looks. We spend several thousand dollars on a bicycle and then are asked to put your substantially expensive product on our bicycles, sometimes asthetics is going to be a factor.

    I'm about your professionalism.

  9. #209
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    I wonder if this thread will ever die? Not many that are as controversial as this one.......

  10. #210
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    They look like a great idea, most of the functionality is dialed, the mechanics certainly are and the ergonomics make all other pedals look like catwalk high heels in comparison.

    But here's the rub.

    No one, and i think that is the literal as in, 'not one person' will be willing to go out on a limb and swap cranks to get the pedals. The pedals themselves aren't an issue, the issue is that you are asking people to change a part that they have already selected for their bikes to use these pedals.

    No other component really asks the rider to swap other parts to use it, if there were other integrated pedal/crank systems out there already, then this wouldn't be such a huge ask. But the flypapers are asking you to try some radical pedals and change cranks to accomodate, and that is too much of an ask.

    It's the psychology of unwanted change that is the issue, not the product. People seem to get pissed off with this thread, that's a good sign, people don't emote if they aren't interested. I'd put good money that they aren't actually pissed off with the Doc or the pedals but rather pissed off with the fact that they want to try these, but can't. It's unspoken frustration.

    Find a decent OEM, or slap them on some SAINTS, problem solved.

  11. #211
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    Good job! +1

    Quote Originally Posted by sq225917
    They look like a great idea, most of the functionality is dialed, the mechanics certainly are and the ergonomics make all other pedals look like catwalk high heels in comparison.

    But here's the rub.

    No one, and i think that is the literal as in, 'not one person' will be willing to go out on a limb and swap cranks to get the pedals. The pedals themselves aren't an issue, the issue is that you are asking people to change a part that they have already selected for their bikes to use these pedals.

    No other component really asks the rider to swap other parts to use it, if there were other integrated pedal/crank systems out there already, then this wouldn't be such a huge ask. But the flypapers are asking you to try some radical pedals and change cranks to accomodate, and that is too much of an ask.

    It's the psychology of unwanted change that is the issue, not the product. People seem to get pissed off with this thread, that's a good sign, people don't emote if they aren't interested. I'd put good money that they aren't actually pissed off with the Doc or the pedals but rather pissed off with the fact that they want to try these, but can't. It's unspoken frustration.

    Find a decent OEM, or slap them on some SAINTS, problem solved.
    Hi sq225917,

    I think your coments are correct. I know I'd buy these in a flash if the expensive change in cranks weren't required. I may still go ahead and bite the bullet but it's the extra dollars that's stopped me so far.

    Thanks,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  12. #212
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    Honestly I don't think these are going to take off.

    Heres why: proprietary cranks and an angry owner. While they are ground breaking in terms of how thin they are, nobody wants to run (and i mean NOBODY) goes out of there way to run GAP cranks. They're huge heavy and there are stronger cranks out there for lighter weight.

    And so these will be ground breaking, and in the next couple months were going to see pedals as thin as these (I know of at least two companies in the process of bringing out similarly thin pedals within the next year) that DON"T require a proprietary crank. Will they be as strong? probably not. Will they be strong enough for your average punter? Almost certainly. Will they have the uber thin and light weight thing going? yup.

    Everybody told the doc he needed to find a way to not run a proprietary crank. Unless he does this, (and soon) his pedals are doomed to failure.

    Still though, if it weren't for the proprietary crank you could sign me up for some right now, they look sick, the machining is rad, and they look super high quality. I give props to the dude.

  13. #213
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    likewise I'd be all over them..

  14. #214
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    Good job! I got to ride these pedals on Live Wire today and......

    ......HOLY MACKREL BATMAN....THEY ARE WONDERFUL!!!

    Sorry to shout but I was very impressed with the ride. I know it sounds crazy but for me it felt like I was inside the pedal instead of standing on it. One ride on an “A Line” style jump trail doesn’t a review make but these were very sweet. I’d love to try them on an All Mountain ride in a technical climb. I certainly don’t know how well they’d stand up to continued abuse but they felt rock solid on the jumps on Live Wire. Given my poor technique and propensity for flat landings that’s saying a lot!

    I also heard a rumor that Dean was trying to develop a version that doesn’t require a replacement of cranks and bottom bracket. That would be the icing on the cake if true. Perhaps he’ll be kind enough to shed light on that rumor.

    Dean, congratulations and “Good on Ya” for creating this fantastic pedal!

    Take care,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  15. #215
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    Dang, this thread just dosent let go!

    After reading through it ive come to some conclusions

    No doubt these pedals have benefits, however the 2 things IMO limiting its potential are:

    1: the interface system, VERY few people will be willing to swap their cranks and BB for these, its a case of the cost outweights the benefits

    2: they look like crap, no matter which way you slice it, people are vain, and looks play a major part in people buying parts. To increase its appeal, make it look nice, change the shape or offer it in some nice anodised colours

  16. #216
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    Wink A Clarification…..

    Hi Folks,

    I made this mistake and thought I’d share this post to keep others from making the same error:

    Bike Doc, the creator of the Fly Paper Pedal:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=353880

    and

    traildoc, the unofficial ambassador for Sedona:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?fi...oster&t=528703

    Aren’t the same person. Apparently they both live in Sedona, AZ and I confused their Mtbr handles as I was reading their posts. I’m sure this distinction is obvious to those who know them personally but I was confused by the similarity of their screen names and thought them to be the same person. If I’m the only one who’s made this mistake I apologize for taking your time.

    Thanks,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  17. #217
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    Damn - I just sent traildoc a deposit for 3 sets of flypaper. Good thing it is bug season right now.....

  18. #218
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    i like the idea of a thin pedal.

    just not really the crankset i have to use.

    now i found this picture online:




    could this be the answer??


    grtz

  19. #219
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    i just don't see why there's still conversation on these when the canfield brothers have seemed to solve all the problems;can use them on any crank, cheaper, and people can know they were engineered well
    http://www.canfieldbrothers.com/products/pedals

  20. #220
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    Fantastic design! I don't care how they look if they work the way I immagine.I'm sure I wouldn't own them if I had to bore my cranks.

  21. #221
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    Dudes- This is as nonbiased as it gets for someone who's seen these puppies in action-
    I got out of the Marines a few months ago, and went out to Sedona to ride for a few days, during which I got to see the NOD who invented these things thrash the ever-loving crap out of em with out so much as a squeak or wobble from them. He's a pretty burly guy too- probably 6'3, 215. I'm actually ordering a set for my UZZI VP this week. More leverage= good, if you have to pedal your arse up the mountain like most of us

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmpearson
    i just don't see why there's still conversation on these when the canfield brothers have seemed to solve all the problems;can use them on any crank, cheaper, and people can know they were engineered well
    http://www.canfieldbrothers.com/products/pedals

    Too bad there are not a few more color options

  23. #223
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    wow a thin pedal with lumps in the middle right where you don't need them, cool. fanbois form an orderly queue.

  24. #224
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    So these are not available alone to someone who want to attempt to bore/modify their own crankset to fit them??

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkei
    So these are not available alone to someone who want to attempt to bore/modify their own crankset to fit them??
    Holy thread revival! It has got to be some kind of a record
    JRA

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    Holy thread revival! It has got to be some kind of a record
    psssh, only 1.5yrs.

  27. #227
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    This thread sums up the worst of the worst of what Mtbr is at times and exemplifies how f**king stupid most people are. They really should stick to watching Jerry Springer and drinking their bud lite or smoking their crack or what ever low life accomplishments they have managed so far during their useless existence. Or they are all low IQ teenagers and just need to be dismissed as such and definitely have their computer privileges revoked.

    The guy is trying to push the envelope and make something better. What advancements to the sport have all the naysayers added to the pot? Sure there are some things to work out but 2 thumbs up for trying.

    All you anti technological advancement a$$holes go buy yourself a Kmart bike from 1995 and wallow in your glory of mediocrity.

    The only criticism I have for the FlyPaper inventor is that he responded to stupid questions. >:[
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  28. #228
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    If only he worked with Shimano to do some SLX and Saint cranks with them......
    "It looks flexy"

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    This thread sums up the worst of the worst of what Mtbr is at times and exemplifies how f**king stupid most people are. They really should stick to watching Jerry Springer and drinking their bud lite or smoking their crack or what ever low life accomplishments they have managed so far during their useless existence. Or they are all low IQ teenagers and just need to be dismissed as such and definitely have their computer privileges revoked.

    The guy is trying to push the envelope and make something better. What advancements to the sport have all the naysayers added to the pot? Sure there are some things to work out but 2 thumbs up for trying.

    All you anti technological advancement a$$holes go buy yourself a Kmart bike from 1995 and wallow in your glory of mediocrity.

    The only criticism I have for the FlyPaper inventor is that he responded to stupid questions. >:[
    Right on.

    Opinions, intuitive guesswork, superstitions...all are very poor substitutes for experience. I would love to try these pedals out. In fact, it looks like Taiwan has taken notice. You can't completely discredit the naysayers on the point of the proprietary cranks. This idea has to stand on its own merits in the end. If the visionaries who made this product haven't sold enough of them, they need to be frank about what is making people think twice about investing. Clearly, it is the cranks and the price of admission. If second best costs less than half as much, and if second best is pretty darn awesome (Burgtec, Podium, Canfield, etc...) then the Flypapers compete at a huge disadvantage. Regardless of the promised benefits. Maybe somebody will figure out how to manufacture such a spindle-less pedal that does what it must without the crank-arm compromise. That guy/gal is going to sell a ton of pedals.
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  30. #230
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    i just clicked on the link from buddhak's post and here is the last sentence in the brief article about VP's version of these pedals:

    Pricing info has yet to be determined, but VP assures me it, “It wont be stupidly expensive.”

    pushing the envelope, expanding innovation, advancement through technology and understanding... these are all good things. and being a rogue on the fringe can also be a good thing if your head and your ask are wired together properly. i love the concept here and i would absolutely buy a set were they somewhere in the vicinity of reasonably priced. unfortunately, even after the cost is offset by flipping the crankset being replaced,the gap between cash outlayed and value gained is still so wide (picture the Grand Canyon here) that the purchase sems nonsensical at best. this being the land of milk-n-honey, though, there is no shortage of people with more money than sense so i am certain they'll sell a few sets.
    Last edited by G-FOURce; 03-24-2011 at 02:49 PM.

  31. #231
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    buddhak - I thought it was an interesting time for this thread revival since I just saw this:


    over at PinkBike this week:
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/taipei-...ow-random.html

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by colin1
    buddhak - I thought it was an interesting time for this thread revival since I just saw this:


    over at PinkBike this week:
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/taipei-...ow-random.html
    I like the looks of that platform because it has the parallelogram shape and looks slightly concave but it is pretty lame that they released that without taking pictures of or even talking about the bearings and crank interface.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    I like the looks of that platform because it has the parallelogram shape and looks slightly concave but it is pretty lame that they released that without taking pictures of or even talking about the bearings and crank interface.
    Ya mon. For sure I will not be the guy who writes the first review of these on MTBR.
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  34. #234
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    flypaper, you've lost.

  35. #235
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    I'm pretty sure flypaper lost when canfield and point one hit the market with their pedals.

    I'm curious to see how these pedals do, but I'm dubious.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    flypaper, you've lost.
    Are you an employee of VP or just a pathetic person with no life?

  37. #237
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    why would any pedal that you need a "special" crankset for be able to "win" against something that is "standard" and "basically" the same thickness. i dont think that 1 or 2 mm makes toooooo much difference when it is basically thinner than the axle it rotates on.
    <(*-*<) Go Ride (>*-*)>

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    I'm pretty sure flypaper lost when canfield and point one hit the market with their pedals.

    I'm curious to see how these pedals do, but I'm dubious.
    Agree. Flypaper knocked it out of the ballpark with his groundbreaking concept, but pedal/crank interface was a problem. Who knows if these second gen. designs will be as sturdy as the originals. Time will tell.
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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    Agree. Flypaper knocked it out of the ballpark with his groundbreaking concept, but pedal/crank interface was a problem. Who knows if these second gen. designs will be as sturdy as the originals. Time will tell.
    I agree....Dean put all his money into the design but failed when it couldn't be used on every bike...Groundbreaking Idea.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  40. #240
    GAME ON!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    Are you an employee of VP or just a pathetic person with no life?
    definitely just pathetic. thank you for your concern.

  41. #241
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    The latest

    Specialized is introducing their own version. Forgive the Pinkbike content. Looks too awesome for words...unless you are the Fly Paper guy. Still, at least his concept is catching on.
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  42. #242
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    What brand of pedal is the white pair saturnine?

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by zburt View Post
    What brand of pedal is the white pair saturnine?
    Hi Mr zburt,

    It's a VP Freerider and here is all that I was able to find out about it:

    Another unique flat

    Enjoy,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

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