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  1. #101
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    I'm hoping that they

    will be in production by this time next year. I know that's asking for a lot of patience, but realize that I first conceived this idea in November of 2000, and it took until June 14th of this year for me to first get to ride these! Why will it take so long? First, not many of the companies I spoke with at Interbike about liscensing the design are very interested until I get the Clip-in version built and tested. Secondly, I'm doing some minor re-designs to make them even better. Third, is that even after we get a liscensing agreement, there will be a bit of time needed to get tooling and production ramped up and get parts and materials sourced. I will however make sure that anyone who has expressed interest at this early stage be contacted and given priority in receiving some as soon as they are available.

  2. #102
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    What I was commenting on with the steel frame clearance is the fact that most frame builders who build out of steel dont use a yoke. Asking for 3" on the INSIDE of the CS's when building out of steel is quite a task. Especially if they're looking for short CS's. If you ask me, these are more geared towards the weight weinie urban/street riders, the guys who are willing to run PLASTIC (more or less PVC) to save a few pounds off their rigs.

    On most street rides, they are often trying to get the chainstays as short as possible, thus, they have to bend the stays fairly drastically to get good tire clearance. Which could possibly pose an issue for clearance.

    And the part that turns me off most, is how incredibly hard this guy is trying to sell his pedal design over the internet. I feel like im reading the script for an info-mercial....

  3. #103
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    They're no sharper

    than any other platform pedals out there. The edge is 3.7 millimeters thick and is slightly rounded. On production models, they will probably be completely rounded into a half circle around the edges. The sharpest thing about FlyPaper Pedals is the traction pins, which are similar to the traction pins on about 100 other platform pedal designs. Best thing about your scenario, is that with FlyPaper Pedals, is that they are so grippy, that you will be far less likely to slip a pedal in the first place!

  4. #104
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    i really liked them and wanted pair until i found out about the proprietary crank. oh well.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    than any other platform pedals out there. The edge is 3.7 millimeters thick and is slightly rounded. On production models, they will probably be completely rounded into a half circle around the edges. The sharpest thing about FlyPaper Pedals is the traction pins, which are similar to the traction pins on about 100 other platform pedal designs. Best thing about your scenario, is that with FlyPaper Pedals, is that they are so grippy, that you will be far less likely to slip a pedal in the first place!
    you have made this more than obvious to anyone who has read 5 of your posts. You're real issue is how hard you're trying to get all of us to buy into your thought process. My suggestion is to stop sounding like an info-mercial and give proven facts. Things that make sense from a mechanical aspect, not just ideas that seem to make sense to you.

  6. #106
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    The proven fact is

    that I have yet to sever either of my achellies (sp?) tendons. Nor has any of my friends or the dozens of riders that test rode them at Interbike's dirt demo days. What other facts would you like? Would you like to try them? You or anyone else who can make it to Sedona are welcome to try them on any trail here that you wish. Unfortunately, I can't afford the time and expense to bring them to all of you, but anyone passing through Sedona, feel free to contact me at (928) 399-9669 if you would like to ride the world's only true flat pedal!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    that I have yet to sever either of my achellies (sp?) tendons. Nor has any of my friends or the dozens of riders that test rode them at Interbike's dirt demo days. What other facts would you like? Would you like to try them? You or anyone else who can make it to Sedona are welcome to try them on any trail here that you wish. Unfortunately, I can't afford the time and expense to bring them to all of you, but anyone passing through Sedona, feel free to contact me at (928) 399-9669 if you would like to ride the world's only true flat pedal!
    ehhh.... my lopro2's are most definitally flat....

    Thickness, and flatness are two different categories, my friend. I wasn't saying anything towards the tendon severing issue, that wasn't even my thought. I mean in general, the only thing you've brought to the table is what you have to say about the product, strictly opinion from what I've read.

    All I'm saying is that you're trying ALL too hard to sell your little pedals. It sounds incredibly cheesy. Something I'd expect from an Info-Mercial.

  8. #108
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    Sorry Alant...

    There just isn't enough room with a 9/16" hole to put in a beefy enough bearing to withstand the amount of leverage, and there isn't enough clearance between the cranks and the chainstay on most bikes to have the inner bearing sit outboard, which means that for the inner bearing to sit inboard far enough, the crank arm had to be bored out much bigger. There are only a handful of cranks on the market that had enough material to even use for the prototype, and in fact, when I first conceived the idea in November of 2000, THERE WERE NONE! Just like when you wanted to add rear suspension to your bike, you had to purchase a new frame with the rear shock designed into it, and like when you first wanted to add disk brakes, you had to get a frame and fork that had brake mounting tabs built in; you will have to get a complete set of cranks and pedals to ride FlyPaper Pedals. And many modern cranks, including these have an integrated bottom bracket. The good news is that sooner or later you will either break or wear out or simply want to upgrade the rest of your bike, and at that time, you can spec your new bike with these. Of course until I work out the final details of the liscensing agreement, it will be impossible to know the actual cost, but it should be in line with what is currently available for upper-end components. And you've got a year or so until they will be available, so start saving your pennies now, or better yet go ride your bike a whole lot so that you can get really fast and we can find a reason to sponsor you!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Grove
    All I'm saying is that you're trying ALL too hard to sell your little pedals. It sounds incredibly cheesy. Something I'd expect from an Info-Mercial.
    FFS, give it a rest already...

  10. #110
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    Hey Bike Doc don't bother with naysayers. You are bringing innovation into the industry and you believe in your product. Defending your work on the internet with words is pointless, let the product come to fruition and be proven with use.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    that I have yet to sever either of my achellies (sp?) tendons. Nor has any of my friends or the dozens of riders that test rode them at Interbike's dirt demo days.
    I did get to ride them at the dirt demo and can definitely vouch for how well they performed, how solid they felt, and how much I'd like to have them on my next ride...... even though it was a flat dirt lot test, a few quick acceleration bursts is enough to tell that they worked as advertised.

    I'd also like to see a set compatible with existing cranks, but the reality is that to improve the performance of one component, sometimes other components have to be modified to be compatible. Look at the history of headset and steerer tubes sizes, for example. I believe these pedals will cause a change in thinking and will probably set a new bar for the industry. Innovation is good... but comes at a price. Dollar wise, and in the cascade effect that new technologies have on the components connected to them.

    My 2 cents worth... Dean, go get 'em into production
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  12. #112
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    The innovation part is true, with innovation usually all becomes better, except when ISIS took over... yuck. haha

    Try to work on improving current crank desings/ bb interfaces while your at it BikeDoc - from the looks of your pedals you can probably come up with something new and revolutionary in the crank world as well. Hell think about it people, what makes our bike a bike and not a motorcycle? the cranks and pedals (ok think about it in an abstract way) so with these two items, things that see ALOT of use, we can group them and make something really sweet. we spend $500 plus on a nice fork, we dont actually have phyisical contact with it though. so with cranks and pedals, spending $500 on them (well hopefully a little less) doesnt really seem unrealistic if its going to be revolutionary.

    BikeDoc - focus your design efforts now on a revolutionary crankset and BB and you will have made a mark in cycling history.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    There are performance reasons for everything about the shape and dimensions of FlyPaper Pedals. Bottom line is that they work and work well. Better, in fact, than what I had envisioned. If you are too concerned about what a part of your bike looks like rather than how it performs, I heard that they have some really pretty colors this year at MallWart...

    Wurd. I HATE people who buy things based on looks. Cause its like ya, Sitting at the starting gate of the DH race run, i'm thinking about how I look. When Im just about to roll up to a 40 gap i'm worried how the bottom of my feet look? JESUS. People who care about bike looks are BAD PEOPLE. You can quote me on that

  14. #114
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    Hollowtech II is pretty gnarly already

  15. #115
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    interestingly enough, shimano did a similar low-profile flat w/ proprietary fat axle interface back in 1982 (the original xt group):


  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    ...or better yet go ride your bike a whole lot so that you can get really fast...!
    that's a great idea, dean. you logic is sound and makes sense.

    i'd like to try a pair.

    btw, are you the guy in the credits at the end of "ride to the hills", talking about watching the riders in person making a video is like being at a concert, instead of listening to the record?

  17. #117
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    No problem. My comment wasn't meant as criticism. I really think the product looks promising. I just wish there was a way to use one's crank of choice. Again, it looks like you got a good product there. Good luck with it!

  18. #118
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    It worked!!!

    As I mentioned I was going to do last week, I finally got around to removing a few of the traction pins. Prior to that, I was running all the pins in both pedals, with 12 millimeter pins in the left pedal for 4 millimeters of pin extension on either side of the pedal; and 10 millimeter pins on the right pedal for 3 millimeters of pin extension on either side, with no noticeable difference in traction on either pedal. After removing several pins from both pedals, the left one became noticeably grippier, but the right one stayed about the same, which prompted me to switch the 10 millimeter pins on the right pedal out for some 12 millimeter pins, making it as grippy as the left one!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by salmanq
    Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

    Property Directory | Wholesale Billiards
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    Please send us some property, alot of undeveloped property, on a mountain. And build us a lodge with like 20 billiard tables, that run on batteries.

    Here's your private message: go fvck youself.

  20. #120
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    According to Kris Baughman

    A.K.A: "Krispy" of "Down", "Double Down", "Third Down" and "Union" fame, who test-rode the FlyPaper Pedals at Intrebike's Dirt Demo Days; he said that he was looking forward to getting a pair for doing big jumps and drops, BECAUSE they were less likely to roll under his feet upon landing, thus making it less likely to tweak an ankle or slip a foot off of the pedal... but maybe you know more about big jumps and big drops than Kris...

  21. #121
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    Probably about 1 - 1 1/2 years...

    If everything goes as I think it is likely to, I should be able to fine tune the design of FlyPaper Pedals and secure a liscensing agreement in time to have a finished product in production by next year's Interbike, so that lots more people can try them at the Demo Days; and then available through distributors by around X-mas of '08 to early spring of '09...

  22. #122
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    You are a smart man!

    You commented that this is a good STARTING POINT. And that's EXACTLY what it is... nothing about the design is written in stone. The bearing dimensions may change. The spindle may end up being thicker OR thinner! The pedal body may also end up being thicker or thinner. Thinner than 3.7 mm, you ask??? yes, because this first pair is made out of 7075 T-6 aluminum, but we are also working on another version made out of a special grade of steel developed for Boeing, which will most likely end up being less than 3 mm thin AND be even stronger and more durable than the 7075 version. (The steel version will be a bit heavier, but still reasonable light.) As you may have read elsewhere on this thread, last week I started playing around with the number and height of the traction pins, and I will also at some point play with different pin spacing and patterns. Even the shape of the outside edge may change, and of course any production model made from aluminum will be anodized to add both bling factor and a tougher outer surface. I have other changes in the works, but I can't mention them yet, as they may result in additional patents, if they work out as planned...

  23. #123
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    Yes,

    that's me.

  24. #124
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    i used to get sucked into the bulls**t and marketing hype that came with dh and freeride.

    then one day i realised that these are sponsored riders,and dont give a toss about there components so long as they get paid.

    if you ask me which i honestly dont think you will,is this them there flypaper pedals could be marginally thicker but then they wouldnt pull in as much intrest.

    im pretty sure that there needs to be innovation but when a giant like shimano try something and then drop it theres usually a reason.

    and all the name dropping of the riders that apparentley want to try your pedals is just marketing hype,and you are using mtbr as you hook,and i aint gonna be nobodys ginueapig.

  25. #125
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    yeah konut, you show him who is boss!
    :P

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by konut
    im pretty sure that there needs to be innovation but when a giant like shimano try something and then drop it theres usually a reason.

    and all the name dropping of the riders that apparentley want to try your pedals is just marketing hype,and you are using mtbr as you hook,and i aint gonna be nobodys ginueapig.
    You're saying that because Shimano dropped the oversized bearing concept in the 1980s it isn't relevant today? Shimano used that system to:

    Increase the aerodynamics of the system, the Dura-Ace EX/AX series
    reduce the tread/Q-factor of the pedals
    to lower the pedal so that it self-corrected
    and to make the bearings last longer (I don't think this one worked)

    They had a few revolutionary designs in those groupsets, some of which were great but almost all of which were dropped. The world wasn't ready for them. The Flypaper pedals are using a similar design for completely different reasons, I don't think you can compare them to Shimano's design.

    your mtbr membership is not dependent on you being a guineapig, you can choose not to buy them. It's not a Lada, after all.

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  27. #127
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    tomacropped...

    im not saying they aint going to work,BUT with the new dura ace pedals they still have a axle running through the pedal there for even for mtb the dura ace will theoretically be stronger.

    alluminum in different forms is pretty strong but in this application i cant see it holding up to well,yeah the theory is sound i even thought about similar system but that was for more reasons of outboard bearings.

    yeah i know i dont have to buy but i am also allowed an opinion on things that i find that may or may not work.

  28. #128
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    Dean, just wondering how the flypaper pedal development is coming along.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    ... and Richard Cunningham had good things to say about them as well.
    You've just lost half of the forum with this but if you got the $$$ to make him suggest them to every heckler/nomad I'd be golden

  30. #130
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    hmmm, wouldn't running these pedals have the same effect as lowering your bb half-an-inch? Too bad they really don't look strong enough for serious abuse.
    I kinda wish my brakes actually worked, but I guess that just makes me faster, right?

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mothahucker
    hmmm, wouldn't running these pedals have the same effect as lowering your bb half-an-inch? Too bad they really don't look strong enough for serious abuse.
    Ha ha, I guess low profile tires for bike will be the next hot thing

    I like the innovation of the idea, I may be tempted to try them if I needed new pedals, but considering they need special cranks well I don't think so unless the cranks too can offer something above & beyond what's currently on the market.

    In reality I reckon other products in a similar price range that have excellent engineering would win my $$ (straitline or something along those lines)

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mothahucker
    hmmm, wouldn't running these pedals have the same effect as lowering your bb half-an-inch?
    No. A lower BB means less ground clearance. Thin pedals give you a lower center of gravity and MORE ground (pedal) clearance.
    wanted: Cannondale Lefty w/ V-brake studs

  33. #133
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    BikeDoc...what testing have you done?
    DON'T TELL ME I'M STILL ON THAT FECKIN' ISLAND! ....

  34. #134
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    What is the latest on these pedals?

    I would buy them

  35. #135
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    I think they are a great idea and would love to try some.
    OVER THE LINE SMOKEY!

  36. #136
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    When I first saw them back in Oct... I was intrigued. After seeing this tread... I am turned off.

    Bike Doc is pompous and self serving. Name dropping and being condescending does not help his cause. I have not seen that much aggressiveness since Tony Ellsworth frequented the forums. What kind of business man is he going to be to his customers. Most likely he will not stand behind his product... I can already hear him, "the product is flawless, you must not have been using it for its intended purpose... we can't warranty you (rider error)."
    Bikeless Rider

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrustyOne
    BikeDoc...what testing have you done?
    Real-world style. Dean is also the inventor of the "death-march". He rides hard and breaks stuff. He's also dedicated to A) riding with flats and B) riding up as well as down. True freerider.

    DW what's up you nut? - Chris C. told me about riding these last week when I stopped through there, he was stoked on the concept. You've always been a thinker like that. I'd like to try a set myself.

    You still have my e-mail addy? Hit me back...

  38. #138
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    Any news on these?

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    any update?

  40. #140
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    I finally saw a pair in person this weekend at our local DH race. Pretty neat, but no chance I would drop $550 on a pair of pedals and crankset that will only ever work with each other.

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    I don't like them...i saw a pair up close that was put in a vise and it literally flexed 1inch each way you pulled it with very little strength pulling it. Also, you can't put your feet close to the crankarm. I ride with my foot literally over the spindle and you can't do that with the pedals. The person who had them didn't like them either. totally not worth 550...

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmpearson
    I don't like them...i saw a pair up close that was put in a vise and it literally flexed 1inch each way you pulled it with very little strength pulling it. Also, you can't put your feet close to the crankarm. I ride with my foot literally over the spindle and you can't do that with the pedals. The person who had them didn't like them either. totally not worth 550...
    Yeah, myself and another clyde were looking at them and debating how many runs it would take before we could bend/break them.

  43. #143
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    DirtMag Uk spotted them now, guess they'll have a review in the next few issues or something. But gee took them a while! They obviously don't read mtbr!

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmpearson
    .i saw a pair up close that was put in a vise and it literally flexed 1inch each way you pulled it with very little strength pulling it.
    What flexed 1" either way (total of 2" of deflection????) The cranks? The pedals? Not saying I am a fan of them, but when I saw them at I-bike last year the prototypes did not appear to have flex when torquing on them

  45. #145
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    sorry i didn't clarify, you put the pedal in a vise and grab the crank where the bb cup attaches and pull it up, and with little effort it'll move an inch or more either way.
    Last edited by nmpearson; 09-11-2008 at 02:52 PM.

  46. #146
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    Sounds to me like a lot of people on here are upset(jealous?) that someone who rides came up with an innovation on his own and now might be able to go somewhere with it. The guy spent a lot of time and money to develop something that outperforms everything on the market in several ways. If it was atomlab or some other company that is cool right now half the haters would be asking when they could buy them.

  47. #147
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    Whaaaaaaat?

    Quote Originally Posted by nmpearson
    sorry i didn't clarify, you put the pedal in a vise and grab the crank where the bb cup attaches and pull it up, and with little effort it'll move an inch or more either way.
    i know they're thin but i've heard whispers of a 5mm double du pedal in the works that has a normal spindle from one a pretty pimp company

    Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and is a complete lie. Even if you tried to get a 3 or 5 mm plate of aluminium to flex it would be 1-3 mm- not a freaking inch and not an inch either way. Who would even attempt to put a product to the market with that much flex/ play in the pedal.
    You sir are lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are a hater.
    I'm GNARcissistic

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demodude
    Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and is a complete lie. Even if you tried to get a 3 or 5 mm plate of aluminium to flex it would be 1-3 mm- not a freaking inch and not an inch either way. Who would even attempt to put a product to the market with that much flex/ play in the pedal.
    You sir are lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are a hater.

    I think he is saying the end of the crank arm moves an inch either way when the pedal is in the vice, which given that the flex would be amplified over the 175mm length of the crank arm which is feasible. The pedal itself would only be flexing a few mm at the point.

    Still after seeing them in person and getting an up close look, there is no way I would drop the $550 on them for something that proprietary. But then again I won't ride and Shimano gear either for the same reason.

  49. #149
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    Yeah...so i'm not so sure you should call me a liar. there was 5 people standing there when the person who had the pedals showed us. yes it was where the on the end of the crank. I'm not being a hater because i love the idea, but they honestly aren't that great of engineering. They need to be tweaked imo. there is a better product though coming out sometime that i'm going to hold out for

  50. #150
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    Your experiment doesn't even come close to simulating the same load that will occur while riding. I'm definitely not calling you a liar but anyone who understands basic physics and engineering could see that putting force on the end of a long lever while probably only clamping a small portion of the pedal in the vise is not the same load.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmpearson
    sorry i didn't clarify, you put the pedal in a vise and grab the crank where the bb cup attaches and pull it up, and with little effort it'll move an inch or more either way.
    i know they're thin but i've heard whispers of a 5mm double du pedal in the works that has a normal spindle from one a pretty pimp company
    That's probably just the crank flexing. Hop on a set of Saints even (which are awezome) and attach any pedal. You can see it flex back and forth as you apply different amounts of pressure on the pedal. This "test" you've done is pretty meaningless.

  52. #152
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    nmpearson: with the correct leverage I can get a car to lift off the ground too.......lol
    Remember, your weight is btw two pedals and the test you were doing was like flexing the entire bike against one pedal. I think every pedal on the market would fail your same test. Ok, your not a liar, just uninformed about basic physics.
    I'm GNARcissistic

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    I think he is saying the end of the crank arm moves an inch either way when the pedal is in the vice, which given that the flex would be amplified over the 175mm length of the crank arm which is feasible. The pedal itself would only be flexing a few mm at the point.

    Still after seeing them in person and getting an up close look, there is no way I would drop the $550 on them for something that proprietary. But then again I won't ride and Shimano gear either for the same reason.
    I dunno...I'd probably be game to try them...

    Who's bike where they on at CM?

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I dunno...I'd probably be game to try them...

    Who's bike where they on at CM?
    They were on Yares' Glory DH. After seeing them, I don't think I would be down to try them. I bet I could break them with my shopping cart style. The bearings in the crank arm were kind of sketch. I could maybe see them for a race application (which is what bike they were on) but not for a everyday rider.

  55. #155
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    dude...stop being a jerk. I don't own or have ever sold a pair of pedals that move that much. I have some track pedals in my shop that would move less. I will say this for the last time. I love the concept. I absolutely love way flat pedals, but those ones i don't think i'd ever use
    Last edited by nmpearson; 09-11-2008 at 02:57 PM.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    They were on Yares' Glory DH. After seeing them, I don't think I would be down to try them. I bet I could break them with my shopping cart style. The bearings in the crank arm were kind of sketch. I could maybe see them for a race application (which is what bike they were on) but not for a everyday rider.
    Well, I'm a super smooth pro rider, so I'd probably be ok

    I'd like to try them, just like the Hammerschmidt, but $500 is a lot of change to be a guinea pig.

    I think the innovation is cool!

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    They were on Yares' Glory DH. After seeing them, I don't think I would be down to try them. I bet I could break them with my shopping cart style. The bearings in the crank arm were kind of sketch. I could maybe see them for a race application (which is what bike they were on) but not for a everyday rider.

    I was checking them out on Yares' bike up there. I gave the pedal a spin with my hand and it didn't move a full rotation. I don't know how long he's had them, but the bearings seamed to be toast already. Sketch to say the least, unless you don't mind pedaling resistance.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by flOw dOwn
    I was checking them out on Yares' bike up there. I gave the pedal a spin with my hand and it didn't move a full rotation. I don't know how long he's had them, but the bearings seamed to be toast already. Sketch to say the least, unless you don't mind pedaling resistance.
    Aren't they still prototypes though?

  59. #159
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    I was just blown away that every other bike at CM had flat pedals. I'd expect to see a few spd holdouts, but nope, no one else. At least I got to feel special (like special ed).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  60. #160
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    He tells all the ladies his few mm is a foot on a regular basis...

    Sorry for the low blow nmpearson, but that childish remark just had to be made

    With the pedal in the vice - was it the very outside edge of it being clamped, or having it clamped as close to the crankarm as possible? Just trying to determine if the flex is coming from the pedal body itself, or the bearing/spindle interface?

    I sure am hoping to get another look at them this year at I-bike. I do not recall seeing that much movement last year.


    Quote Originally Posted by Demodude
    Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and is a complete lie. Even if you tried to get a 3 or 5 mm plate of aluminium to flex it would be 1-3 mm- not a freaking inch and not an inch either way. Who would even attempt to put a product to the market with that much flex/ play in the pedal.
    You sir are lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are a hater.

  61. #161
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    Nice work Dean,
    What gets me them most about these pedals is that not a single one has sold. The two guys that made these busted their butts doing so, and I can be darn sure that this pedal wonít just snap under some fat ass. I can also tell you that the bearings wonít explode, and what ever crankset Dean chose to put them on is good enough for you! I have a low tolerance to the ******** in the bike industry. Ever year a new coat of paint goes on a bunch of the same old stuff and people will drop the cash $$$ on a new look, but when a real innovation comes from practical thinking it gets crapped on. That just makes me cringe.
    I ride my bike because I enjoy it, I like it more when it works better, if it looks good then great, if not; whatís new? If you want to talk about how terrible the pedal is, try it first, and then tell us how it felt when you rode them! They are built to last, these are not to be compared with any magnesium pedal for strength and durably. I donít know if they come in steel yet, but they probably will, and they will probably out last the rest of your components. So the money you save every year by not buying a new set of pedals, you can keep. ;-)
    Another thing: You have to spend $$$ for this pedal because some one else spent $$$$. When it turns out that the idea is bomb proof (which it is) and a big company will indorse the design, then you can have this pedal for a bit less money. Until then you could be one of the people that made it happen. We donít need scientists to tell us when a pedal is better. Just think about it for a second; if you could keep your foot from flying off and slamming your shin into the cleats on you pedal at 100 mph, would you? It might not happen that often for you pros, but when it does you remember it, right? And there are plenty more advantages to go around. Too darn bad I donít have a bike worthy of this pedal but for those of you who do: Can I ask what are you waiting for??

    Dean Williamson and Tim Wright did a lot of good old real hands on work to make this pedal happen; itís a shame all we have to do is ride them.
    Tim Wright by the way is a pimpomatic machinist dedicated to doing the best work humanly possible. Iím not kidding; if there was a technical problem in the mechanics it would have been found. So ask your questions, but know that they are not original.

  62. #162
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    i don't know what all the hate it about. I would possibly buy them is i was able to test them.

  63. #163
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    i love the arm chair engineers in this thred
    u would assume that if a company is gonna drop a few hundred thousand to produce a product theyed get people who knew a little more than the average kid who rides a bike 2 days a week and sits on the computer for the rest.

    it is what it is.
    like it or hate it. but dont try to sound like ur gonna out smart some guy whos getting a paycheck sealed with bling bling
    looking for someone fast to ride with in the yay

    RIDESFO

  64. #164
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    boogenman: If you ever get to Sedona I'm sure you could test them as much as you needed. If youíre not able to test them out, I would suggest you call Dean and talk with him about the pedals. Dean is a genuine guy. He'll talk with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc
    You or anyone else who can make it to Sedona are welcome to try them on any trail here that you wish. Unfortunately, I can't afford the time and expense to bring them to all of you, but anyone passing through Sedona, feel free to contact me at (928) 399-9669 if you would like to ride the world's only true flat pedal!

  65. #165
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    If I could try them. And like them (which I am sure I would), I would buy them. Get some of those out there and let people experience them. IMO a good pedal can make up for crank restrictions.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by flOw dOwn
    I was checking them out on Yares' bike up there. I gave the pedal a spin with my hand and it didn't move a full rotation. I don't know how long he's had them, but the bearings seamed to be toast already. Sketch to say the least, unless you don't mind pedaling resistance.
    the tension is adjustable. free spinning pedals are stupid. if i take my foot off of any pedal, i dont want it spinning like a top when i go to put my foot back on- i want it right where i left it.
    GOD HATES A COWARD

  67. #167
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    in my opinion.....

    I Love My Flypaper Pedals! Sickly stickly! omg these things frickin kick ass! they look like weapons or something! and under my 5-10 shoes they are incredible! superstrong, super stiff, i have a new favorite pedal.riding them was comparable to getting my first pair of shimano dx flat pedals back in like 86, or my first rides w/spds.
    GOD HATES A COWARD

  68. #168
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    Wow,
    This is the first time I have seen the final result of the CNC machining. Simply beautiful, a exquisite example of the brilliant minds behind the design and construction. Contoured edges, chamfered holes, adjustable setscrews. Crisp, refreshing, and basically bad ass: I have a thing for good machining.
    Big thanks bobnarly for being the first... and congratulations, I would say you are riding the worlds best pedals!

    I hope we can look forward to many more paradigm shifting designs forthcoming from the Dean.
    Last edited by bykeworx; 09-18-2008 at 02:01 PM.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobnarly
    the tension is adjustable. free spinning pedals are stupid. if i take my foot off of any pedal, i dont want it spinning like a top when i go to put my foot back on- i want it right where i left it.
    Go ahead and set the tension on your pedals how ever you like then guy. Personally I don't think it's that hard to find one of the two flat sides of a flat pedal after I rarely take a foot off, especially if it is 5mm thick. I'd rather deal with that than have rotational resistence when I'm hammering. To each their own... guess that's why they are adjustable. The one's I saw felt like they were packed with gum.

    I've got a pair of 7 year old flats sitting around that you might be interested in though. I'll give you a sweet price on them. Bearings are in pretty bad shape, but sounds like it wouldn't bother you much .

  70. #170
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    nmpearson is NOT a liar...

    N.M.Pearson is NOT a liar! Nor is he an engineer. And he doesn't appear to have a very astute analytical mind or very keen observational abilities. The test that he describes is a non-test. It does not prove or disprove anything, except for proving that he doesn't know how to construct a proper test!

    Has anyone here ever heard of bio-mimicry?

    Let's look at a tree. It is quite thick at the base of the trunk, and tapers thinner and thinner as the trunk rises. The branches are thinner yet, and they also taper toward the ends. As the tree branches more and more, the branches get thinner and thinner. Finally, the twigs at the tip of each branch are quite tiny.

    Now, imagine cutting the tree off at the base of the trunk, and flipping it around, and then planting one of the twigs in the ground. Let go of the tree, and it will stand there perfectly balanced on that thin twig, even when the wind blows, right? OF COURSE NOT!!! Why not? Because that is the opposite direction from how it is engineered to handle loads.

    This is, in effect what N.M. Pearson saw done with the FlyPaper Pedals.

    He saw someone clamp the outer edge of a FlyPaper Pedal in a vise and then grab the end of the crank that attaches to the bottom bracket, and flex it back and forth. This is the opposite direction from actual riding and crashing and rock bashing forces are applied to the pedals in real life. Instead of holding the outer edge of the pedal and applying force to the spindle end of the crank arm, what happens in the real world, is that the bottom bracket spindle is held in the frame, and forces are applied to the pedal. although the pedals are 3.7 millimeters thick for most of the surface area, they ramp up in thickness, ever so slightly, as you get closer and closer to where the bearing shaft is located on the inboard edge of the pedal. this gradual ramping up of thickness, is in direct proportion to the amount of leverage at any given point on the pedal body, thus transferring the load quite evenly clear in to the crank arm.

    An interesting demonstration is to stand beside any bike, with the closest crank arm in the six o'clock position. Place your foot on the outer edge of whatever pedal you have. Now, push straight down as hard as you can. Most people with any significant amount of leg strength, when they first try this, are amazed at how far inward their crank arm flexes. (Your frame and rear wheel will also flex a bit, but what flexes most on any bike I've ever tried this on is the cranks, no matter what brand or model.) On many models of cranks, I can make the end of the crank arm flex inward over half of an inch by doing this. Even my Profile chromoly BMX cranks do this...more than you might ever imagine.

    I've posted (or at least attempted to) some photos to illustrate this. One shot shows the pedal held in a vice, the way that N,M, Pearson describes doing. A couple of others show a FlyPaper Pedal close-up, to show how the thickness gradually ramps up toward the bearing shaft. And another one shows me, at 205 lbs plus gear, launching a stupid-sized drop to a flat, slickrock landing, something I do frequently to test the pedals.

    One final note... I will be at Interbike's Dirt Demo(lition) Days on this next Monday and Tuesday, with a few bikes that are set up with FlyPaper Pedals. We don't have our own booth, but I know several people who do, and I'm sure that I will be able to partner up with one of them, just haven't figured out who, yet. So, for any of you who are in the industry, or know someone from your local shop who is going, here is my cell number. Call me and find out where I end up, and you can demo them yourself, on some of the most rugged terrain on the planet, and see for yourself how well they work. I encourage anyone who test rides them to go as big as they ever do, as well as to try to bash them into rocks as much as they can, at whatever speed they want!

    Dean Williamson
    Momentum Bicycle
    (928) 399-9669
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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Grove
    Steel is not heavier, is its rather lighter. Aluminum is weaker by a fair stretch.
    Sources i found list aluminum at 2.7 g/cubic cm and various grades of steel at around 8 g/ccm. Most sources state that aluminum is very light and strong for its unit weight... as strong as steel. Maybe you're right and the whole bike industry is wrong though, we should all be riding steel frames.

  72. #172
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    "guy"

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/bnarlz/heywoodjablome.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    GOD HATES A COWARD

  73. #173
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    pretty... if i rode flats, those would be on my bike...

  74. #174
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    I'm on the thinner is better bandwagon for pedals. That said, there's no way I would go for a proprietary system. I understand that engineering may be better, but for me my bike seems to be in a constant state of disrepair, and the ability to swap parts is more valuable (to me) than ideal pedal thickness.

    Figure out a way to run them with normal cranks in the production model and I'll probably buy them.

  75. #175
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    can these only be run with fsa cranks?

  76. #176
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    Can I get a price estimate for a pair of 83mm X 165 Cranks and a set of these pedals?

    Also can you weigh that complete setup (Bottem bracket, cranks, pedals) for me?

    Thanks, you've got a great product here. Don't worry about all the naysayers - people are naturally afraid of change, especially a drastic change in what they're used to. I see this a very good change however, and I'm very interested in answers to the question's above, you can reply publically or by private message. Thanks

  77. #177
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    what the heck, I can't find the checkout button?

  78. #178
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    creating momentum....

    I Love Bikes...wrenching, riding, and building....
    remember the good old days when making your own stuff was cool?
    remember bike shops that built bikes? and i mean welded and assembled bikes?
    bikes w/ the shops name on it, not some corporate conglomerates decal?
    how many of us can run a welding torch of any type? or run a lathe?or miter tubing?
    I grew up in mechanics' shops and there is nothing better than making a part or original piece of equipment from scratch as an improvement on design or just a true innovation..
    you can tell in this thread that there are a lot of people out there who have no nice things to say and too much time on their hands to say those not nice things.look at the # of posts compared to how long some of these guys have been members and it makes you wonder if they spend more time riding or typing....
    Questioning something new is normal. fear of change is being a coward. talking smack and flaming people on internet boards is being a hater.
    These are the coolest parts i have installed on any bike since my first disc brakes and long-travel suspension. I feel lucky to have them and show them to everyone who will look and most of the time i dont have to say anything, people ask me. dean is a great guy and I wish him all the luck in the world w/ his product. check the new decline for the first major-mag review. my hands hurt from all this typing- gotta go ride
    GOD HATES A COWARD

  79. #179
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    right here-

    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    what the heck, I can't find the checkout button?

    hit up bikedoc he's the man
    GOD HATES A COWARD

  80. #180
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    Now if only they were available on the HammerScmidt setup..........

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Now if only they were available on the HammerScmidt setup..........
    ...So if you have rear suspension your bike will pedal like crap 100% of the time!

  82. #182
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    can we delete this thread? I am really sick of seeing it...

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08nwsula
    can we delete this thread? I am really sick of seeing it...
    +1.
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  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobnarly
    Questioning something new is normal. fear of change is being a coward. talking smack and flaming people on internet boards is being a hater.
    Quoted for truth!
    Last edited by sittingduck; 10-19-2008 at 11:29 PM.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08nwsula
    can we delete this thread? I am really sick of seeing it...
    Then don't click on AND reply to it, thus bumping it to the top.

  86. #186
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    I met up with Dean from Momentum Bicycle in Sedona and I shot a short video while he went over the features of his Flypaper MTB pedals.

    Video Part 1

    Video Part 2

    He is a super nice guy and has a very cool product. It's great to see people come up with an idea and actually make it happen...


  87. #187
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    these things look sick gnar. I'd give em a whirl if I wasn't a poor college kid.
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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptsgrafitti21
    can these only be run with fsa cranks?
    Not necessarily, but your current cranks may not have enough material to allow the pedals to be installed. The process involves reaming-out that area to increase the diameter.

    I've seen the pedals in action now, flats are not my thing, but they do what they claim and hold up. Pretty neat idea.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  89. #189
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    Wow Dean is rocking some high end leg armor.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    Wow Dean is rocking some high end leg armor.
    I love the tape
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  91. #191
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    I dig them, thanks for the video. Really interesting.
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  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    What leg armor is that anyway?
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  93. #193
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    Good job! FSA Gravity GAP Cranks and the FSA Gravity Maxximus Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Not necessarily, but your current cranks may not have enough material to allow the pedals to be installed. The process involves reaming-out that area to increase the diameter.

    I've seen the pedals in action now, flats are not my thing, but they do what they claim and hold up. Pretty neat idea.
    Hi Jayem,

    I asked Dean if his pedals would work with the Hammerschmidt cranks and he shared the following info on which cranks would currently work with his pedals:

    ďYou are correct in your assumption that the FlyPaper Pedals will not work on the Hammerschmidt cranks. In order for a crank arm to be compatable with the FlyPapers, it must measure 38 millimeters by 14 millimeters across the center of the pedal hole. Otherwise, there is not enough material left to have the proper strength, after the cranks are modified. The 14 millimeter measurement is fairly common, but most cranks measure 36 millimeters or less in the other direction. At this time, there are only two cranks that I am aware of that meet this criteria, the FSA Gravity GAP Cranks and the FSA Gravity Maxximus Cranks. It would be great if Truvative would make the Hammerschmidt wider at the pedal end, but I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. What would really be great would be for them to make crankarms with the bearing cups forged right into the end of them. Eventually we hope to be able to produce our own crank sets, but that requires expensive equipment that we do not yet have.Ē

    I love the idea of these pedals and hope to acquire a set this season.

    Thanks,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  94. #194
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    I think a better name would be "Fly Squaters", or spell it in a funky way like "Fligh-skwotters or Fly-Skwotters" (i dont know)due to the fact that in all sincerity, they actually DO look like a fly squater you would employ to flatten the absolute smeg out of some unsusspecting fly. But generally I love the idea and I think its great that Dean is trying to make it happen. Also, he is a straight up guy to boot so some peeps just need to calm down on the BS-arm chair engineering pap, and go and try them...its free to demo them from what Dean has already stated if thats accounts for anything.

    Dean, you want to send a pair to me here in J-Land and ill put them through some serious real world testing...oh wait, I cant...! I hvae a busted knee, meh!

    Good luck with the refinements and I can say so far, your product is looking really good and really bolted down.

    Best regards

    Sim

    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    dean, if you work for a bike company and post on any forum on this website it is required that you say so in your signature.

    I still like my idea better, but, i would be willing to try some out and give feedback on here. How much will they cost?

    FlyPaper is a perfect name BTW.

    1000 POSTS!!!
    Last edited by Sim2u; 03-04-2009 at 10:40 PM.

  95. #195
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    What's the cost to go thin? I would love to shed 5 weight!

  96. #196
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    Dont forget though...it IS a prototype with plans nearing some form of production phase yet, he also stated that he may make various changes based on feedback etc etc...

    However, as it gets nearer to finalization and realization the price may come down, the only draw back is its need for proprietary cranks. I do not need peddles THAT bad and I always ride clipless unless in tricking out at the local DJ or some more advanced FRing. Still, it is a solid design and one of the more fluent designs I have seen in a while with some very intuitive engineering in the manner of its function, dismantling and maintanence etc etc...

  97. #197
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
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    Agreed - The Brown tape rocks.

  98. #198
    ≈ > ♥
    Reputation: zahgurim's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
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    I'd buy a set if they worked w/Saints.

  99. #199
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    If they worked with Saints i'd have them too.

    But i'm not going to change, chainguides, chainrings, cranks and BB, just to get a pedal that's a few MM lower. I have no doubt it's a great design, that much is obvious.

    But until it works with the other components i want it makes no difference how good it is, i'm not going to drop proven parts for unproven benefits.

  100. #200
    go huck yourself
    Reputation: jimage's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
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    if you could make a version with deity/bmx style cranks i would get a set and im sure it would be the same with alot of other dirt jumpers
    Dirt jumps come and go, but dirt junkies will dig forever.

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