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  1. #1
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    Hope Tech M4 or Tech V2

    Hi.
    I'm running Hope Mono M4 in front (those black'n'gold series) and Avid Juicy 3 rear.My weight with a bike is around 108 kg and I ride in DH.My Hope has a lot of modulation but it feels like its lacking power,its hard to block a wheel.So I need Your opinion guys who rode those Hope's.On front i need something with bigger power but with same modulation as my M4,for rear I need BIG modulation but with bigger power than at least Juicy 7
    1.Is new Hope Tech M4 more powerfull than the old M4
    2.Does Tech V2 have the same modulation as M4?
    3.What kind of set do You recommend for front/rear
    I was also thinking about new Saints for front and Elixir R for rear.Elixirs have the power and modulation I need for rear but I heard that they have some problems with levers?
    I'm sorry for any mistakes made in this text.I'm not good at english.
    Please help.
    Cheers

  2. #2
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    I always saw the M4s difficulty to lock as being something of a plus point, but that may just be my preference. Are you 108kg yourself, or does that include your bike?


    "1.Is new Hope Tech M4 more powerfull than the old M4"

    Hope say yes and they also say that modulation hasn't suffered with the increase in size of the smaller piston. The absolute lack of flex in the Tech lever is a world away from the Mini lever you're using currently. The lever blade is also ergonomically much improved, having dispensed with the flat front in favour of narrower, shallower face with holes for added grip. It fits very comfortably in my finger.

    "2.Does Tech V2 have the same modulation as M4?"

    The V2 is quite bitey, with a much shorter range of modulation than the previous M4. That said, the Tech lever is very adjustable, providing plenty of scope for altering the feel of the brake. In its own right, I would still say that the V2 has good modualtion.

    "3.What kind of set do You recommend for front/rear "

    The V2 is now available with a 183mm rotor, so you have the option for a smaller rear. I've used a V2 as a rear brake with a 203mm rotor and it was (for me) unusable; totally unbalanced with the same size front. A lot depends on individual braking style, but a 203mm V2 front and 183mm M4 rear would, in my estimations, be a very well balanced and workable set-up. I run something close on both of my bikes, although I use a 183mm Moto M6 in the rears.
    .
    .


    What luck for rulers, that men do not think - Adolf Hitler

  3. #3
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    I weight 108kg with my bike.Thanks SteveUK.That was useful info

  4. #4
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    Hey, I got your pm, but lost the reply before it went out.

    As far as "locking the wheel", that's not necessarily something you want to do. You want control, and that's what the M4 is made for.

    I use the V2 203 in the front of my bike and the 183 M4 in the back. They work together quite well. I don't need ridiculous power in the back, as it would just make the wheel lock. At least now, I can control the power, and still lock up the wheel, though I find that to be an undesireable trait, which is why I don't use a V2.

    1. New Tech M4 is more powerful, but Hope's account, along with a couple users.
    2. The V2 does not have the same modulation. It was not designed to. It was designed to be a powerful brake with nearly unsurpassed fade resistance. Despite that, I have no trouble modulating them. They are not on/off like many brakes. I likened them in the past to something like the Mono Mini's modulation curve, just with way more power. IMO, the Mini doesn't modulate as well as the M4, despite having less power. That's not to say it's bad, it's just a comparative.
    3. Difficult to recommend. If you like Hope, stick with them. I don't know if your M4's are the ones with the metal pistons or the composite ones. The latter are the newer type, and offer better fade resistance and supposedly better retraction and actuation.

    Saints are good brakes, new ones are a bit new. Elixirs are getting good marks. Disadvantage to me is always going to be that they need the kit to bleed. Even though I have the kit, it's just silly at this point. I've had good experiences with Avid CS, as well as that of Hope.

  5. #5
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    i know two people who are having problems with the v2's not having enough modulation, even with one finger braking, i tried it and they nearly killed me, i am running old m4's, but the newer ones are suppose to be more powerful and have better modulation.

    if you can get good modulation out of v2's then run them up front, and have m4's out back, you will not be disappointed
    Quote Originally Posted by [Orge
    ]
    This problem could quite simply be solved if people would stop buying Konas.

  6. #6
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    Thanks a lot guys.I will stick to new M4 on front and rear.

  7. #7
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    I really can't understand the guys saying a V2 doesn't have enough modulation to run in the rear, and then recommend it with a 200+mm rotor for the front!?!?

    Is the front not even more important to have modulation than the rear?

  8. #8
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    I've not ridden the V2s.
    The new saints blow the M4s out of the water.
    They are the 2nd most powerful brakes I've tried after magura gustavs.
    The only criticism of the saints is that they have a very light feel at the lever (lots of power without pulling hard).
    This IMO just takes some getting used too.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pslide
    I really can't understand the guys saying a V2 doesn't have enough modulation to run in the rear, and then recommend it with a 200+mm rotor for the front!?!?

    Is the front not even more important to have modulation than the rear?
    You're apparently not understanding how physics and biking work together.

    When one brakes, the weight is shifted forward. This increased weight also increases traction. This weight shift also decreases the weight on the rear tire, reducing the amount of available traction it has, and in turn, making the conditions easy for lockup.

    You do realize that conditions on the rear of the bike are generally different from those of the front? Why do you think motorcycles and cars don't use the same brakes on the rear as on the front? My car has large vented discs and large calipers up front My rear has solid discs and smaller calipers. Why do you think that is?

  10. #10
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    aussie_bushrider And how is modulation in this Saints compared to M4's?
    Jerk_Chicken After what You have wrote I started to think over V2 on front again but on the second hand I can stop thinking that I will pull them too hard one time and will fly over the handlebars.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    You're apparently not understanding how physics and biking work together.

    ...

    You do realize that conditions on the rear of the bike are generally different from those of the front? Why do you think motorcycles and cars don't use the same brakes on the rear as on the front? My car has large vented discs and large calipers up front My rear has solid discs and smaller calipers. Why do you think that is?
    Oh I quite understand. I also understand that motorcycles and cars work on asphalt, generally with a surface coefficient of around .9. That allows huge braking forces on the front with all the weight transfer. Downhill bikes run on loose, variable surfaces with surface coeffients down to about 0.2. I'd say it's not very clever to be setting up a downhill bike like a race car or GP bike, or even a dirtbike for that matter considering the weight difference...

  12. #12
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    Oh, and another point...downhill bikes don't have a fixed CG. Riders shift their weight back under braking to try and keep a fairly even weight distribution to aid in braking control. I'm not saying there is no weight transfer to the front, I'm just saying it's a load less than comparable road vehicles. And as the consequences of locking up the front wheel are way higher than locking up a rear, I would think you would want maximum modulation on the front brake.

    Through experience, I find myself using a lot more rear brake than front, so I run equal size rotors and the same brakes front and rear. I use the rear for control and the front for extra stopping power as much as needed. I'd say it's a rare case where I squeeze more front brake than rear...

  13. #13
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    Modulation on the new saints is excellent.
    At first the very light feel at the lever might feel like there is not enough feedback.
    In fact there is plenty of feedback and modulation.
    Compared to the older 2 piston saints there is definitely an improvement in modulation.

    Hope IMO no longer have any kind of performance edge over the competition.

    There are many better brakes out there than the M4s and there is no need to spend V2 money with so many brakes that are plenty powerful and significantly lighter (the ones/elixrs/saints).

    I have a set of the original XT m755 4 pot brakes that have seen 5+ years of DH abuse and are still going strong and also still perform on par with many of the latest disc brake offerings.

    I personally like to run the same brake setup front and rear.
    I agree that during braking weight is transferred to the front wheel meaning that the front wheel needs to slow down more weight than the rear.
    What is important to me is keeping my hands fresh on long/gnarly runs. I generally use my rear brake more than the front so I like to have an equally powerful rear brake as my hands are more likely to get fatigued from rear braking than front braking (the less I have to pull on the brake lever the fresher my hands are at the bottom of a run).

    IMO most 6" disc brakes have more than enough ultimate power to slow down a DH bike you just have to pull hard on the lever.
    The real reason for powerful brakes is less braking effort means less rider fatigue.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajder
    aussie_bushrider And how is modulation in this Saints compared to M4's?
    Jerk_Chicken After what You have wrote I started to think over V2 on front again but on the second hand I can stop thinking that I will pull them too hard one time and will fly over the handlebars.
    Sorry, if you believed that clueless little 14 year old, then I can't really help. He's something of the jackass of the DH-FR forum.

  15. #15
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    Will stick to m4s ,I dont like soft feel of brake.For front maybe that v2..will see.thanks for help

  16. #16
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    When was the last time you bled your brakes?

  17. #17
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    Me? Two weeks ago.

  18. #18
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    I'd agree with Rajder... You either have air or contamination on the pads... I'm running an M-4 8" in front & Mini 6" rear and I can lock either up like I'm on a crotch rocket.

  19. #19
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    I had the M4s in gold/black too and I am now on V2s with vented rotors. The M4s never had enough power for me. It was not easy to lock up the front wheel and even the rear did not lock without a hard grabb on the levers. I had the normal steel rotors and when going down a longer downhill the rear 200mm rotor really got black and blue.

    Then I went to the V2s. They are a different animal. They bite like crazy and they are very easy to modulate. The only problem I really have with them is that they squeal while my m4s where silent on the same bike. I did everything to remedy that noise (kool stop brake pads - they are so grabby that I could not use them on the front, grinding the edges of the pads, swissstop silencer (I advise you too never use that!!!!!), ....)

    I would buy elixirs now. They are light an cheap. Maybe I would buy Hope rotors for them ...

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