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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    eh. There's a bike park down the road that's been around longer and another one in jersey that has similar trail building capability. What will windham offer that others don't?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    What will windham offer that others don't?
    another option.

  4. #4
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    What's wrong with options? It will push up the game of all parties involved. Windham getting Gravity Logic involved is a step in the right direction. Now please don't open a water park adjacent! For me that's the major downside of Mountain Creek; having to deal with the herds that flock on the weekends. I miss Northstar in many ways; that is, a park that is focused on downhill over the summer months.

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    yeah see that's my problem with it. It dilutes the field, it doesn't draw more. So, less people are going to go to mt creek and plattekill, but it's not like all of a sudden there's going to be more riders. plattekill and mt creek will respond with mediocrity, because they can't afford to build new trails with less riders. Windham will respond with lukewarm glee now that they've spent oodles of money but are only drawing 50% of the rider pool in the area, because some people are still going to go to plattekill and mt creek.

    It's the same case in new england. We have killington, jiminy, mt snow, sugarbush, attitash, and burke. The rise and existence of highland has not caused these places to step up their level of trailbuilding, it's caused them to care less, because there's less riders visiting now.

    So, my prediction is that windham throws a bunch of money down, sees a fair showing for the first month, sees a steady decline in the number of riders, refuses to build more trails until the ridership increases, which causes riders to decline further, and they close up operations not long after.

    Mountain biking just isn't that lucrative unless you go all out, with complete 100% commitment and a dedicated local rider pool to make it happen. That's why whistler and highland are so successful.

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  7. #7
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    Creek hasn't expanded in the last 5-6 years really. Besides closing off technical rocky runs and covering others with dirt and putting in tabletops every 100', I can't say I'm excited to get down there anymore. Their step ups/downs all have major dips in between meaning a lot of riders roll them due to the consequences. This kills flow for the advanced rider then. I'm an intermediate rider. Some I can clear, others I can't. I'll use Alpine as an example- after the 2 wall rides the step-down has a major dip to lip in it. There's a handful of days that I've hit it and barely cleared it. But most days I roll it. The double below it I think I see about 2 riders clear it per visit.
    Platty is technical DH which is what I love, but there's no official trails there. I always hear "find a local to show you the goods". Are trail signs too much to ask for? The trails are random clearings in the woods and feel like a back yard project (which I like). But there's definitely not time and effort put into it like Creek.
    I love both places and have always had a pass at one or the other for the last 11 years, but change is what's needed to keep me in the game. I've ridden twice this year because I know at Creek I'm either going down alpine/Domboo or that step up with a 6' setback where I'm going to probably slam the rear suspension on. At Whistler you want to ride their step ups/downs faster cause there aren't any dips to lips. In turn you ride them faster and faster every run getting better and farther every run.
    I know these places put all of their time, effort, money and pride into what they give us to ride. I do. I'm a trail builder myself. But change is good! I've spent weekends at Whiteface and came back a different rider. I rode Whistler and came back a better rider. I'll ride Windham and come back with something too.
    I'm not putting down Creek or Platty, just offering some criticism I hope. Ttyl, Fahn

  8. #8
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    Hahaha! Rep, bro... Rep! .

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    I'd just rather actually discuss it than sling insults around.

    I see your point though. Neither platty nor mt creek has put a ton of effort in recently, and honestly I was not a fan of mt creek for a long time. I just worry that this is another ski hill that's going to put a tiny bit of effort into their bike park, get bored with it, and let it run itself into the ground, just like several others that dry up when things don't work out perfectly (sugarbush, burke, killington, catamount, jiminy, attitash, and a few others come to mind). That area is pretty dense with DH options, so I fear that adding another one is only going to bring another mediocre option to the table, rather than what needs to exist, a committed bike park with a serious rider focus.

  10. #10
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    What about the possibility though of growing the "scene" or sport via awareness. Undoubtedly having a WC @ Windham and opening a bike park there will turn on new riders. Not sure if we can equate DH to snowboarding, but my hope is that this continues to grow and mature. It's certainly at a slower pace, but I have seen progression in the 7 years I've been involved.

    Totally agreed that we need to step up the quality at the NE resorts. I used to ride Northstar in California and I miss that nice blend of flowy lines with steep technical sections. And WIDE trails. This isn't singletrack XC! These tight areas through the trees and randomly inserted jumps, may challenge some riders, but also prevents others from getting the speed and exhilaration we want from riding this style.

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    We have nothing to lose by seeing what happens. I support Windham in their efforts and I hope they follow through as much as they say they are. Hiring a world-class building crew sounds very good to my ears. "If you build it, they will come" - I think this is true, if the quality is there, people will flock to it. Take Highland for example, (arguably) the best lift service on the east coast, far for some but many make a pilgrimage because the trails are worth it. Let's see what happens.

    Side note: personally, I think Creek has made substantial efforts in the past season or two. Under the latest management they've done more work and maintenance during the past 2 seasons than the entire prior decade. They used to buff up the trails once a year during spring time after the college kid staff got home for break and then you never saw anything during the entire season. The breaking bumps would tear your suspension apart and trail deterioration was never addressed until the following spring. I see almost constant efforts mid-season there now and I think they've really tried to step things up recently. Their focus may not be to the preference of everyone (DH vs. flow vs. beginner terrain vs. whatever you happen to like) but effort nonetheless is apparent to me.

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    LarryFahn, if you hit the jumps with enough speed to get to the transition, who cares what's in between? besides, all those large jumps are on blacks and double blacks, and some of the jumps you mention are doubles, not tables, so the dip in the middle is supposed to be there.

    As for Windham, good for them for trying, I wish them the best and I hope more people join the sport. I think the single hardest thing to overcome is the initial price newcomers have to pay, or the huge price for a rental+lift ticket.

  13. #13
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    Word. Creek definitely maintains stuff and puts in a major effort. No doubt. But trails like Tempest, Waterboy and Asylum can use some TLC too.

    But hey, Windham's OPENING!!!

    Plus, they have 1,600 vert!

  14. #14
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    I'm curious what the Gravity folks will do with much less vert than in the resorts out west. Will they keep to short but flowy and fast runs? Or will the trails be flatter but feature rich?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G View Post
    I'm curious what the Gravity folks will do with much less vert than in the resorts out west. Will they keep to short but flowy and fast runs? Or will the trails be flatter but feature rich?
    highland has half the vert, and look what they did with it! I might expect more natural DH though. Supposedly they have 4 trails planned including the two that exist.

  16. #16
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    Cool - so they keeping the WC one?

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