Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486

    Heavy dude's and heavy duty riders, need your opinion

    Hey,

    As posted last night my new steed is fully ready to roll out, well almost... I took it on a short test ride today and realized the spring rates on both fork and the shock are too light.

    I checked around on the manafacturer's sites but no dice for weight=certain spring rate breakdown.

    I'm 230lbs(big boy) and I'm running a Marz. Super T 03', and a new propedal Fox vanilla RC. Currently the RC has a 550lbs rate, I'm guessing maybe a 700lb rate? I need to know what you guys run your's with, and especially if your above 200lbs as this will give me an idea of what to get. Or if you have the breakdown list that I couldn't find, I'd much appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    J
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    LT1
    LT1 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    192

    Can't comment on the Super T...

    ...but I'd guess on it and say you'd need heavy or extra heavy springs.

    I might be able to help with the rear shock but I need to know how you determined that the spring rate you have is currently too soft.

    Did you set the pre-load and sag correctly ?
    Did you set the compression adjustment correctly ?
    Do you set the rebound adjustment correctly ?
    Is the shock blowing thru it's travel on small hits ? How small a hit or drop was it ?
    Or, does it feel like a pogo stick after landing ? Or is it too much bob while pedalling ?

  3. #3
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by LT1
    ...but I'd guess on it and say you'd need heavy or extra heavy springs.

    I might be able to help with the rear shock but I need to know how you determined that the spring rate you have is currently too soft.

    Did you set the pre-load and sag correctly ?
    Did you set the compression adjustment correctly ?
    Do you set the rebound adjustment correctly ?
    Is the shock blowing thru it's travel on small hits ? How small a hit or drop was it ?
    Or, does it feel like a pogo stick after landing ? Or is it too much bob while pedalling ?
    Ok,

    The front goes through all its travel just pedaling in the parking lot but you said you can't help with that. The rear is just too soft pedaling around. I haven't even tested it off of a hit in fear of bottoming it. I like a stiff ride so when I do hit big drops, root sections etc I can just power through them. The way it feels right now , just in the parking lot is too soft... I messed with the rebound, it's good to go, the compression is also good, it's just sagging too much, even after adjusting the pre-load so I know for a fact I need a heavier spring, just not sure what size spring...

  4. #4
    LT1
    LT1 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    192

    I have to go back to your other post...

    ...to see what the shock stroke is...it's 2", right ? And the rear travel on this bike is 6", right ?

  5. #5
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by zachdank
    sweet bike bro! i'm 170 pounds riding a banshee scream w/ a shiver and vanilla rc pro pedal. my shiver has the heaviest springs made. i believe they are for a 240 pound person. i'm rockin an 850 spring in the back. those marzocchi forks come w/ super soft springs. heavy spring upgrade is a must. especialy weighing in at 230. it depends on what kind of riding your going to be hittin fo sho. all i do is send big drops and big gaps. i got way sick of bottoming all the time, and breaking frames from not being sprung right.
    Well...I just moved to WA so I'm not sure what style is around here however I've seen a few trails and they have some pretty trick stuff! Plus Whistler is about 5 hours from here, along with the North shore so... As far as where I'm at now, I drop about 10 footers to trannies if it's a clean run out, but I'm planning on building up my iron ball case this year to go bigger I'll be using this bike for everything from pedaling to the goods, to shuttling, to whislter on the weekends so I'd rather have a stiff setup to assure it's there when needed... I think its safe to say the stiffest springs avail. for the super t, just not sure about the fox...

  6. #6
    Cynical Bystander
    Reputation: COmtbiker12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,775
    Quote Originally Posted by I_8_It_up
    Well...I just moved to WA so I'm not sure what style is around here however I've seen a few trails and they have some pretty trick stuff! Plus Whistler is about 5 hours from here, along with the North shore so... As far as where I'm at now, I drop about 10 footers to trannies if it's a clean run out, but I'm planning on building up my iron ball case this year to go bigger I'll be using this bike for everything from pedaling to the goods, to shuttling, to whislter on the weekends so I'd rather have a stiff setup to assure it's there when needed... I think its safe to say the stiffest springs avail. for the super t, just not sure about the fox...
    You realize that on most dh bikes youre supposed to be using 30-40% of the travel for sag right? That's the six that you have right? Since the Super T is taller than the Z150 you've put more leverage on the rear and will make it softer. On my bighit, when there was a 02 boxxer on it, I took up probably 40% sag, and bouncing could get through about 75% of the travel with a 500# spring on a Vanilla R. Now with the Monster T on, I get about the same sag, but I can sometimes bottom it by just bouncing really hard. It holds up fine to 8' drops and such, it hasn't bottomed at all the times that I've done those. It seems that as long as you balance out the bike on your landing you should be okay. Then again my friend has a Scream with a 450# RS on it and in the 8" mode it bottoms off of a 2 stair drop and this guy is like 120#.
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  7. #7
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by COmtbiker12
    You realize that on most dh bikes youre supposed to be using 30-40% of the travel for sag right? That's the six that you have right? Since the Super T is taller than the Z150 you've put more leverage on the rear and will make it softer. On my bighit, when there was a 02 boxxer on it, I took up probably 40% sag, and bouncing could get through about 75% of the travel with a 500# spring on a Vanilla R. Now with the Monster T on, I get about the same sag, but I can sometimes bottom it by just bouncing really hard. It holds up fine to 8' drops and such, it hasn't bottomed at all the times that I've done those. It seems that as long as you balance out the bike on your landing you should be okay. Then again my friend has a Scream with a 450# RS on it and in the 8" mode it bottoms off of a 2 stair drop and this guy is like 120#.
    No this is the A-line, totally different head angle's and shock size's.

  8. #8
    LT1
    LT1 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    192

    Ok...

    I went back to your other post and this is what I got:

    8.5" x 2.5" shock
    8" rear travel maximum

    Linkage ratio = 3.2 (8/2.5 = 3.2)

    Your body weight transferred to the back wheel is 2/3 of your weight, so:
    (230*2)/3 = 153.33 lbs

    Weight at shock:
    153.33*3.2 = 490.67 lbs

    30% sag (I do not recommend running this bike at 25%. Even 30% is a bit low) means your shock will move 0.75" (2.5"*.3=0.75").

    Your weight at shock divided by the sag distance would be the calculated spring rate:
    490.67/0.75 = 654 lbs/inch.

    Seems a bit low...from my experience with Horst 4 bars, I always found I had to go up 50 to 100 lbs more than what I calculated. Never had a chance to do a detailed analysis of the linkage, I'll attribute this to a rising rate in the linkage ratio i.e. the calculation of a 3.2 linkage ratio assumes the rate is linear, when in reality, it isn't. It's rising, so the end ratio might be 3.2 (or less) while the starting rate is higher (for example, could be as high as 4).

    So, I'd recommend 750 lbs to start. You may still have to go up or down 50 lbs.

    Oh yeah, the poster (that's me) is not responsible for any modification that the owner makes, in terms of warranty, safety, or guarantees in correct spring rate.

    Welcome to the world of freeride...and Zedro, no snickering...

  9. #9
    LT1
    LT1 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    192

    And I can calculate it another way too...

    ...using the common sense approach.

    If it's a medium frame, the frame desingers optomize the stock spring rate for someone most likely in the 165 lbs to 185 lbs range. If a 550 lbs spring rate is what they consider the norm for this bike with a rider in this weight range, then a 230 lbs rider would need a spring rate that would be 230/175 (in the middle of 165 to 185) = 1.314 times "heavier".

    So 550*1.314 = 722 lbs.

  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    [QUOTE=LT1]I went back to your other post and this is what I got:

    QUOTE]
    Thanks for all the math work, makes my brain hurt. I was guessing 700 to 800 lb spring, I guess it depends on rider preference too. I think I'll be going with an 800lbs, also because 230 is dry weight after taking a shower, so with gear on its going to be around 250lbs.
    Thanks for doing all the work, much appreciated!

    J

  11. #11
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by LT1
    ...using the common sense approach.

    If it's a medium frame, the frame desingers optomize the stock spring rate for someone most likely in the 165 lbs to 185 lbs range. If a 550 lbs spring rate is what they consider the norm for this bike with a rider in this weight range, then a 230 lbs rider would need a spring rate that would be 230/175 (in the middle of 165 to 185) = 1.314 times "heavier".

    So 550*1.314 = 722 lbs.
    Yeah but I went with the small frame...

  12. #12
    LT1
    LT1 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    192

    Small ? Ok...

    ...then there goes all my "common sense"...

    I think the 800 might be a bit high, but try it anyway - at least you are more in the range of where you want to be. You may have to play around with this a bit before you get it...reality is, you might have to try a couple of springs. They are not that expensive though and having 2 gives you a couple of options depending on what you are riding.

    Good luck and post the final results...

  13. #13
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by LT1
    ...then there goes all my "common sense"...

    I think the 800 might be a bit high, but try it anyway - at least you are more in the range of where you want to be. You may have to play around with this a bit before you get it...reality is, you might have to try a couple of springs. They are not that expensive though and having 2 gives you a couple of options depending on what you are riding.

    Good luck and post the final results...
    Thanks again for all the work and info, its much appreciated! The only difference between the small and medium was a 17" height seatpost vs 19", and an inch in top tube length. Everything else was identical so I went with the small as the frames run big on the stand overheight clearance...

    Thanks again, maybe I'll do the 750lb as I'm going to plan on dropping about 50lbs over the summer, all with the help of pedaling my 40lb rig around...

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    33
    I am 220 and not sure what I am using in back, but my Shiver uses one heavy and one light spring. Be careful to not over spring your ride dude. You want full travel. The people telling you to go really heavy on spring are mostly suggesting for hucks and drops. Most rides will benefit from a nice short 25% sag spring.

    Good luck

  15. #15
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486

    So the fox spring is covered...

    Any Super Ter's out there? Reccomendations???

  16. #16
    I liked the old *****
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    218
    I run heavy springs on my 03' Super T, and I'm 165 dry / 185 wet (w/ batteries). I run average oil height using 7.5w. I'm thinking extra heavy is appropriate for you.

    I'm not going to comment on the spring rate for the rear, since it appears LT1 summed it up quite well . . .

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    12
    I don't know too much, but i am a big dude, and when i first got my Jr. T, it would bottom out going down a curb. I had it changed out the oil a 15 weight, and had the air assist put on the top, and it has been perfect since!

  18. #18
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by prerogative
    I run heavy springs on my 03' Super T, and I'm 165 dry / 185 wet (w/ batteries). I run average oil height using 7.5w. I'm thinking extra heavy is appropriate for you.

    I'm not going to comment on the spring rate for the rear, since it appears LT1 summed it up quite well . . .
    Thanks man, I'm going to get the heaviest springs they make!

  19. #19
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: dpdsurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    709
    Check this site out for calculating spring rates. I have found it to be fairly accurate.

    http://www.mojo.co.uk/springs-calc.shtml It comes up with 750 based on 8.5 x 2.5 x 230lbs

  20. #20
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by dpdsurf
    Check this site out for calculating spring rates. I have found it to be fairly accurate.

    http://www.mojo.co.uk/springs-calc.shtml It comes up with 750 based on 8.5 x 2.5 x 230lbs
    That's a sweet site man! I typed in 250 for with riding gear and it quoted me a 824.2424242424242

    I think I should get either an 800 or 750...

  21. #21
    T.Dot Represent
    Reputation: finchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,291
    i run a 600 pound spring on my vanilla R and i weight 200+ i dont know exactly though...
    [SIZE=5]fiiiiiiiiiiiinchizzzzzzzzzzle[/SIZE]

  22. #22
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Are there two sets of springs in each leg? I read the site and it sounded like there are two sets of springs in each fork, a total of 4 springs??? I'm confused now...

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    212
    Don't over spring your bike. It won't feel as good as it should. You should run about 1/3 of the eye to eye in sag. This is with the spring only tightened a few turns. Even with 10 ft drops to tranny it will be fine with this setup. The best way is if a shop in your town has some springs in stock try them out at the shop and measure your sag right there. Then buy what you need. Only when you really start to go huge you need to add more spring. But as far as the SUPA T goes along with some heavy springs you are going to need to add some oil to that puppy. The springs will help but the added oil will help control bottoming too. Zokes are notorious for needing a little more oil for even light guys when they are right out of the box.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by I_8_It_up
    Are there two sets of springs in each leg? I read the site and it sounded like there are two sets of springs in each fork, a total of 4 springs??? I'm confused now...

    yeah, 2 sets in each leg. The short set is only an inch or so shorter though. I have green(heavy) short springs and stock long springs, at 160lbs this works well. The oil height will need to be raised quite a bit to control bottoming though.

  25. #25
    banned
    Reputation: I_8_It_up's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemonster
    yeah, 2 sets in each leg. The short set is only an inch or so shorter though. I have green(heavy) short springs and stock long springs, at 160lbs this works well. The oil height will need to be raised quite a bit to control bottoming though.
    Thanks,

    Know of any place that 2 day air's these puppies? I'm going to go with the XX-Firm kit I think, should I do it for all 4 or try some sort of combo?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •