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  1. #1
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    Favorite Brakes for Downhill/Freeride

    What is everyones favorite brake system for downhill?

    What would you change to improve that system?

    How would you guys feel about a brake system that came pre bled, and the rotors were already bed in? No break in period for the discs. Just bolt on and ride.

    Also enough braking power to stop a motorcycle without the weight of a huge cast 4 piston caliper. Modulation and control that is on par with a Ducati race bike. We talking about super top secret, factory "works" type $hit.

    What would you guys pay for a system like that?

  2. #2
    eci
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    hayes, reliability

    but i do wish they had an open system the whole closed system kinda sux for bleeding.

    tried shimano xt, didnt like them

    maguras, ok easier to bleed full plastic was weird kinda flexy

  3. #3
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    2003/2004 Gustavs...

    The early gustavs were quite good, but leaked a little bit around the reservoir. Then, they sucked with the radial msater in 2000/2001. However, the new Gustavs from last year onward are just freakin awesome.

    Tons of power and modulation - true one finger braking. We just ordered 8 pairs of Gustavs and Louise FRs and we've had to bleed ONE front brake - the rest were just taken out of their boxes, mounted on the bars and off we went (they come pre-bled). They burnish in quick, and the 5 year leak warranty is pretty awesome, as is the cusomter support.

    The test riders who have been trying them out (most are Hayes users with a few Shimano uses in the mix) have all been pretty impressed with the brakes. We've had a lot of un-solicited comments from test riders mentioning about how much they liked the Gustavs and the Louise FR brakes.

    Just my opinion, and I'm definitely a Magura whore, but I think that they have a great product backed up by some of the nicest and most professional people in the bicycle business.
    Noel Buckley
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  4. #4
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    mmm

    Grimeca system 8, 12, 17 (17=3 pots). Pads have little play in the caliper; nothing bad, but annoying.
    For the love of Oi

    Rent a house at Attitash

  5. #5
    Jm.
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    I'd ride hopes again if I had the money. I ran them for 4 years with absolutely no problem. I ran the DH4s, and if I didn't sell the bike they were on, I'm sure I'd still use them today. They make some very good brakes, and they left absolutely nothing to be desired, at least compared to the latest hayes that I am using. The new M6Ti brakes look pretty good, and I dougt anyone is going to come out with anything that will give them a run for their money, much less be better. Just because a company makes brakes for one application doesn't mean they'll start sh*tting gold when they make them for mountain bikes.

    I had some crappy gustavs. My friend bought new gustavs, they were still crappy. They could stop a train, and they felt good when working, but they were just not worth it, and due to the problems my friend had with brand new ones, it will be a long time before I ever consider magura again. My HS33s always had a minute leak that I could never track down. Good customer service..so-so product.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  6. #6
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    If cost were no object I'd try out the new Hope 6-pot Ti DH brakes.
    But my Hayes Purple DHs w/ 8" rotors have been doing fine.
    Turn your head and cough.

  7. #7
    Bighit Evangalest
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    Hayes

    hayes HX9 HD.... sweeeeeeeet a$$ brakes.... 'nuff said...

  8. #8
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    02 Magura Gustav's best power/modulation they rule so much! lol i had one mastercylinder go on me at the beginning of last season after spending the winter in my shed, i guess it didn't appreciate it but i got a waaaayy better 03 mastercylinder/brake lever system back on warrantee the ONLY problem i have with the gustav's is my front break drags, always has nomatter what but it's worth it saved me from hugging many a tree

  9. #9
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    Try these

    I have Hayes Mag's 8" rotors and they do the trick !

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalfreerider
    What is everyones favorite brake system for downhill?

    What would you change to improve that system?

    How would you guys feel about a brake system that came pre bled, and the rotors were already bed in? No break in period for the discs. Just bolt on and ride.

    Also enough braking power to stop a motorcycle without the weight of a huge cast 4 piston caliper. Modulation and control that is on par with a Ducati race bike. We talking about super top secret, factory "works" type $hit.

    What would you guys pay for a system like that?
    Hayes hydros, 8" fr & rear - Goodridge brake lines - Razor rock levers - best setup I've ever used...

    yours sounds too good to be true....

  11. #11
    Hella Olde
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    [QUOTE=socalfreerider]What is everyones favorite brake system for downhill?

    <HTML>
    <IMG SRC="http://www.hopetech.com/images/new/mono6ti_caliper_&_disc.gif">
    </HTML>

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalfreerider
    What is everyones favorite brake system for downhill?

    What would you change to improve that system?

    How would you guys feel about a brake system that came pre bled, and the rotors were already bed in? No break in period for the discs. Just bolt on and ride.

    Also enough braking power to stop a motorcycle without the weight of a huge cast 4 piston caliper. Modulation and control that is on par with a Ducati race bike. We talking about super top secret, factory "works" type $hit.

    What would you guys pay for a system like that?
    So who do you work for? You plopped another hint the other day about som ebig brake company looking at moving into the US market, now you seem to be fishing for items to use for advertising......

    As to your questions, I think my next set of Freeride/DH brakes are probably going to be Magura Gustav's. I tried them on Knolly's rig and they were perfect.

    What would I change? I would dump m,y Hayes and switch to the Gustavs!

    Pre-bled on arrival? That is a great idea if the lines were cut to length. Otherwise I will be cuttin em and re-bleeding them myself. A whole 5 minute job.

    As for the Rotors, well I have never really had to spend a bunch of time bedding in the rotors. The pads however do require a little bit of coaxing.

    As for braking performance, how about on par with a Honda race bike! They were passing the Ducks for most of last season in MotoGP!

    How much to pay? If they were truly twice as good as the existing "best" system then I guess I would pay twice as much.

    More competition in the disc brake arena is a great thing. Magura and Hope, and Avid have all recently stepped up their efforts, so bring another manufacture on board. Will only benefit us the consumer!

    TJ

  13. #13
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    huh huh huh....

    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com
    The early gustavs were quite good, but leaked a little bit around the reservoir. Then, they sucked with the radial msater in 2000/2001. However, the new Gustavs from last year onward are just freakin awesome.

    Tons of power and modulation - true one finger braking. We just ordered 8 pairs of Gustavs and Louise FRs and we've had to bleed ONE front brake - the rest were just taken out of their boxes, mounted on the bars and off we went (they come pre-bled). They burnish in quick, and the 5 year leak warranty is pretty awesome, as is the cusomter support.

    The test riders who have been trying them out (most are Hayes users with a few Shimano uses in the mix) have all been pretty impressed with the brakes. We've had a lot of un-solicited comments from test riders mentioning about how much they liked the Gustavs and the Louise FR brakes.

    Just my opinion, and I'm definitely a Magura whore, but I think that they have a great product backed up by some of the nicest and most professional people in the bicycle business.

    He said whore.

    ;-)

    TJ

  14. #14
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    What 006-007 said pretty much sums it up. So far for my criteria, reliability is tied for 1st place with power, followed by modulation, price, etc. So Hayes it is.

    The ideal system would be as reliable as Hayes Mags (not the crappy 9s) and would have a bit more modulation, along the lines of Hopes. With 8" rotors, I don't think power is much of an issue anymore....

    I wouldn't pay extra for pre-bled - all brakes seem to come that way except some of the Shimano's. And if you have to disconnect a line to run it thru a gusset or something, there goes the bleed anyway, or shortening a line. Bedding in the pads/rotors takes all of one DH run or 15 min. of dicking around in the parking lot doing stoppies, so I definitely wouldn't pay extra $$ for that, and I don't think anyone else would either.
    ~~HCOR.net~~
    East Coast, beyotch!

  15. #15
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
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    HOPE

    don't settle for anything less!!! ;o)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian
    HOPE

    don't settle for anything less!!! ;o)
    and they are ever soooo sexy lookin'


  17. #17
    Dropmachine.com
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    I run hayes mag plus with goodridge lines and custom levers, they feel really good. As for a new brake system, I would pay more but I don't think I would want or need more power in the brakes, never had a problem with not enough power before. I would be carefull too, if you remember way back when shimano developed there three pad 2 rotors water cooled system. Wildly powerfull, too much in fact, they were fliping people over the bars all over the place.
    Dropmachine.com

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dufault
    I run hayes mag plus with goodridge lines and custom levers, they feel really good. As for a new brake system, I would pay more but I don't think I would want or need more power in the brakes, never had a problem with not enough power before. I would be carefull too, if you remember way back when shimano developed there three pad 2 rotors water cooled system. Wildly powerfull, too much in fact, they were fliping people over the bars all over the place.

    I had all but forgotten those shimano brakes. I heard rumors that the test riders used to intentionally contaminate the pads with oil so they were not so grabby......

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the info guys. Maybe I will post some spy photos after Sea Otter.

  20. #20
    Jm.
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    [QUOTE=DH40]
    Quote Originally Posted by socalfreerider
    What is everyones favorite brake system for downhill?

    <HTML>
    <IMG SRC="http://www.hopetech.com/images/new/mono6ti_caliper_&_disc.gif">
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    OWNED
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  21. #21
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker.
    and they are ever soooo sexy lookin'
    I would LOVE to own some of those new Mono 4's ones, but I just upgraded to M4's late last year from DH04's - so I can't really justify getting those right now I knew I should of waited a bit...

    oh well..I still love my M4's! Performance wise I'm sure they are on par - but I like the stealth look of the new Mono's!!

  22. #22
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    Good job! Older XT

    I rode Hopes for a while but they were inconsistent for me so I switched to Shimano XT 4-pistons with 8" Hayes rotors. They are easy to set up and maintain, perform consistently, and have great power and modulation. I agree with what that other guy said - with 8" rotors most of the brakes on the market have plenty of power. I also agree that with a good design, bleeding is not that tough and bedding in rotors and pads is not a big issue.

    One thing I would like to see are standard lines like Goodridge - stainless for durability and no compression and reuseable hardware so if you need to replace a lever or switch 'em to a different bike you don't automatically also need new fittings. I'm considering dropping the cash on a set of Goodridges so it makes sense folks would pay a little more up front for sweet lines.

    Oh and make 'em lighter than anything else too!

  23. #23
    KARPIEL USA Rep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    OWNED
    Ditto, but I don't need someone elses picture
    Attached Images Attached Images
    KARPIEL'S NOW IN STOCK!brian@karpiel.com www.karpiel.com

  24. #24
    Where's the chair lift?
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    ... and if we just ... 2 Thumbs Up for my Maguras!!

    Hello, Fellow Riders!

    Most of us in our shop have been using Magura Hydros for the last 4 years!! A couple are susing Shimano XT. I have 02 Louise twin pistons on my Id and they have worked like a charm from day one!! They stopped on dime from day one! Almost too much bite. Once the broke in they had nice modulation! Love them for trail riding!!

    I have 03 Gustav w/ 8" rotors on my 04 Dare, that i used on my Turner Dhr all last year! The Gustavs were sweet from the get go as well!! Out of the box and out to ride!! I fixed them up with no drag what so ever!! Rode the Dh at Keystone, Co (Wild Thang) and they rocked! Never faded always had the power, used one finger and got sweet modulation! I just got some new Goodridge brake lines today that im going to install on my Gustavs. They should work even better from what Goodridge told me at Interbike this past year. Looking forward to warming them up at Whistler this summer!! LOL As far as bleeding them goes, have done my rear Gustav one time in 1 1/2 yrs and it was easy to do!! The new Shimano Pro Bleed kit rocks to bleed Maguras! Perfect the first time! I think Magura has one bleed sysytem that is similar to the Shimano now.. Also, the guys at Magura are very nice and helpful if you have any questions or need tech help! Most of the hydros out seem to work pretty well, some people have personal pref. and some people may have had bad installs too, that make them like other brake brands over the next. Im waiting to try the NEW JUICY DH brakes!! IF THEY EVER RELEASE THEM!! Jeeeez.. LOL Anyway.. I agree with Knolly! The Maguras work nice, and are dependable when called upon! Thats my 2 cents.. Enjoy the long holiday weekend, and have some good rides, guys! (Always wear a helmet!)

    Nice Hope Tis, guys!!

    Ellsman1 (Aka Marzman1 old forum)
    04 Dare/888

  25. #25
    Shiveriffic
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    Hayes? What about the Shimano XT's?

    I really don't like my Hayes Brakes. For normal riding/freeriding, they are great, but when you are riding a chair lift and doing run after run, they really play up. I have played with them time and time again and I just am not happy. The adjuster screws back out during a run (I have even tried locktite to fix this issue with no luck), and they squeel like a pig when they are cold. I have done all that is written about getting squeels out, and I am simply sick of fooling around with the hayes stuff. I'm really not impressed with the workmanship or quality of them. I have heard good things about the 4 piston Shimano XT's, but I think they quit making them and went to a 2 piston design? Whats the deal with that? I am interested with your experiences with the Shimano brakes.. One reason for the Hayes crapping out may be my weight (180) and I like to brake late and hard into corners, so I guess I am asking alot from a set of brakes..
    I am sure I will get hammered by Hayes lovers, but I wonder how many really DH them? Go easy on me guys..
    ~Gary

  26. #26
    Former Noob Herder
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowskilz
    hayes, reliability

    but i do wish they had an open system the whole closed system kinda sux for bleeding.
    i'm surprised no ones pointed this out, but Hayes are an open system (and always have been), not closed. Bleeding seems to be inconsistant with these tho, it either takes 5mins or an hour.

    Been running the same Hayes set for over 3 seasons now. Although they have been reliable with good pad wear and decent power, i am growing tired of their lack of adjustabilty and flimsy lever systems. The shops around here however carry most needed replacement parts in stock so its more viable.

    The only reason i wouldnt get Hopes is their dumb multi-caliper system. Yeah all the Hope lovers play this down, say its a better setup, but really i just see the system as being way less versatile.

    My shop will be putting some Avid Juicys through a trial. They have all the specs i'm looking for, the only question really is how well they work, durability, pad wear and price. Might be my next system

  27. #27
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    Magura all the way

    have 01/02 Gustavs (190mm F/ 160mm R) on my Stinky , front is 3yr old , never a problem
    rear is 2 yrs old , never a problem . OK small prob , both levers are very rattely , but not something U notice when riding. Thought of going to 03/04 levers but I really like the look and "smallisness" of the 01/2 levers , and hey "if it aint broken , dont fix it" .
    Have a 99 Louise front on my xc bike , never a problem ( with HS33 rear , never a problem)
    Doubt Ill ever have anything than magura on my bikes.

    Tried a friends Saint brakes , with XT stand-alone levers , those were pretty sweet , but not enough to give up on Gus.

    Cheers

  28. #28
    Hella Olde
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
    Ditto, but I don't need someone elses picture
    LOL. I never said I actually OWNED
    them, but they are my choice! Hell, I still run a DH04....CANT KILL IT!

  29. #29
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    i love the 6Ti they are awesome..
    cant wait to get themon my bike..
    i'll have 6ti front m4 back

    btw, i sure you installed it correctly but somehow that rotor seems backwards

  30. #30
    The Dude Abides
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    4-pot XT's kick bootay

    In my disc brake experience, I started with Hayes and now have the 4-pot XT's. Neither were my choice, they came on the bikes I bought. The Hayes were good. 8" in the front, 6" back. All of my friends had and liked them, so there was really nothing to compare too. They were also my first disc brake, so of course they felt stupid strong.

    But then next season came the XT's. I started with 6" on both ends. They felt sooooo much better than the Hayes. The levers, the modulation, everything felt better. Not as much power, but i only had a 6 on the front. Now I have the 203mm rotors front and back. I have yet to feel a brake system that I like more. The power is clearly there, the modulation is excellent (better than the Hayes by far), and the feel is right on. I love them.

    Hope seems to be the exotic favorite, and I must say they are extremely nice. I've putzed around with some C2's, Mini's and Enduro4's. The C2's weren't set up properly, but the mini's and 4-pots were. They were okay, but I thought they were a bit squishy in feel. Perhaps thats just how they had them setup, or is the modulation everyone raves about?

    To me, the Hayes are too much on/off, the Hopes are too squishy, and the XT's are a perfect mix of the two. I can't say enough about them. I've felt the new XT's, and while they have good power, they've lost a bit of that firmness, a bit more like the Hopes. I do like the new levers, but the calipers just dont look as cool as the 4-pots. And the Hope M6Ti? Gorgeous! I wish I knew someone with them, I wanna try them out. But so does everyone else without $500 bucks, right?

    Happy Trails

  31. #31
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    YEA DUDE rotor's backwards... like that it could fold nicely at high speed :-)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2bikeman498
    YEA DUDE rotor's backwards... like that it could fold nicely at high speed :-)
    hopes mount that way, notice the printing on the rotor, otherwise it would be written backwards inside-out. Its probably why Hopes squeel too

  33. #33
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    Idea! guess hope missed out on highschool physics...

    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    hopes mount that way, notice the printing on the rotor, otherwise it would be written backwards inside-out. Its probably why Hopes squeel too
    lol d'oh! or the words were meant to be read from the other side?? lol o well i like my avids random educated guess about the squeaking in relation to rotor rotation direction---- could be because the way the spokes are pointed PULLS the rotor inward when the brake is applied..but the metal wants to return outward to its original position..vualla! oscillating effect.. VIBRATION! in-out-in-out really fast.. could be it ... all other rotors face the other way because- spokes pushing (facing) in the opposite direction of force = happy brake, less bending! visual aid... think of a stick or twig stuch in the ground on a 30 degree angle as the rotor spokes, and your finger as braking force. / = the stick. Push on the tip of the stick this way --> / and it will fall over easily (ie inward movement, Hope direction). now put it back up. push / <--- .. u will find a point where you can push it and it will be rigid, and not move down or up. (ie good rotational direction!!) just something to think about.. could be wrong, let me no so i dont confuse anyone or myself haha

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2bikeman498
    random educated guess about the squeaking in relation to rotor rotation direction---- could be because the way the spokes are pointed PULLS the rotor inward when the brake is applied..but the metal wants to return outward to its original position..vualla! oscillating effect.. VIBRATION! in-out-in-out really fast..
    thats exactly my thoughts on it, its simply more rigid in the other direction. Plus i frequently hear that complaint with hopes, so it stands to reason. Notice the other rotor shown has the symetrical design with the large carrier instead

  35. #35
    Broken and dizzy
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    Well, I've only ridden Hayes, but I can say stay the hell away from the HFX-9 levers or you may suffer this fate at the most inopportune time. Switched over to the Mag levers. If I had the cash to swap out the entire system, I'd be sporting the Hope M6Ti's fo sho!

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  36. #36
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    Wait for the brand new top secret brembo mountain bike brakes that are being released sometime in the near future.

    They aint gonna be cheap though.

    Keep your eyes peeled.

  37. #37
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fats
    Wait for the brand new top secret brembo mountain bike brakes that are being released sometime in the near future.

    They aint gonna be cheap though.

    Keep your eyes peeled.
    Why? what are they going to offer over Hope Mono6 Tis?
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  38. #38
    Hella Olde
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    Hope rotor direction is up to the user. It does not matter which way they are oriented unless you have the vanity lettering on em. This has been hashed and rehashed over the years and escalated to Hope UK who finally posted this. The catalog photos are up to the whim of the photographer. I have run them both ways for years.

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