Obviously I'm really stoked on this shock. It does EVERYTHING better than the Elka even without making any changes to the adjusters. It got even better once I did start tuning it.
Most noticeable is how the DB transforms the way the entire bike handles, not just the rear end. My fork sticks better now and the whole bike just feels like one cohesive damped unit. Within 2 runs I was charging corners way faster and with more confidence knowing the bike would track a line and not get kicked out.
For drops, the DB seems to use all of its travel a little easier than the Elka. On the other hand, it uses all the travel, but I never feel the end. On top of that the DB keeps the wheel AND my feet planted together at all times. The Elkas would kick my feet off the pedals. You would think this translates to a bike that can't be hopped around and jumped as easily. In fact, quite the contrary. My bike bunny hops easier than it ever did, but still has rebound damping in effect at all speeds. In fact it seems like damping is happening all the time and never stops.
Elka is a noisy punk. DB is utterly silent.
DB is totally incognito inside my Reign X frame. Looks like a old coil Vanilla is in there. Did I mention it also comes with a beer opener inside the adjuster tool?
I know a lot of people want to convince themselves that their $200 cheaper shock is just as good, but it isn't Even if the DB was $400 more, I would say it is worth it. I hate always wondering what that next best thing might have been like if I had shelled out the dough. In this case, it was worth every penny and I don't ever have to wonder if anything is better. Cause there isn't.
Also, keep in mind that this is the latest redesign of the double barrel. As far as I know, the last one sucked balls at high speeds and low leverage bikes. So keep that in mind when researching and seeing reviews of the old one.
The best shock is the best you've tried... don't jump into conclusions too soon
I know a lot of people want to convince themselves that their $200 cheaper shock is just as good, but it isn't Even if the DB was $400 more, I would say it is worth it. I hate always wondering what that next best thing might have been like if I had shelled out the dough. In this case, it was worth every penny and I don't ever have to wonder if anything is better. Cause there isn't.
Really? I completely disagree. I think you got a bunged shock, had a bad experience with it, and then got a shock that was not custom tuned for you.
This is from a guy who owned a CCDB and sold it for an elka. On a 3:1 progressive leverage ratio bike (something that should have been perfect for the ccdb).
But to each their own, I'm glad your double barrel is working out for you!
Shocks are very personal just like bike choice or tire choice. Different riders prefer different feels. Here at Go-ride.com Krispy and I are split on preference. He prefers the ultra sensitive and infinite adjustability of the CCDB. I, however, prefer the more direct feel and adjustment range of the Elka. I had the opposite experience with the Elka on my 2010 Reign X in that after a couple of DH runs and a XC loop I felt I had it dialed in so well that I wouldn't change a thing again. With the CCDB I really like the shock and it's high quality, but has too much adjustability for me. Leaving me feeling like I'd always be trying something differnt with it.
To clear a couple of things up a bit:
1. When we received the demo shock back from YoPawn it definitely had some problems. It's off at Elka getting a full check over. It seemed to be to have a rebound issue as YoPawn notice.
2. We did not pre-test the shock on a bike before sending it out. I guess we could have, but it was brand new and often customers just buy the shock they test as long as it was new when it was shipped. We also don't test brand new shocks when they are ordered because customers expect products to be brand new and never used. I doubt anyone would be happy if you received a new fork with a few scratches and a cut steertube because we already took some DH runs on it.
3. Elka does offer custom tunes for individual bikes. We stock all of the shock sizes and most of the tunes for our demo and sales program. The tune we sent to YoPawn is the exact one that Elka would recommend. With that being said, it certainly is possible if you bought a new shock and did not like the recommended tune for your bike, Elka could choose a different tune more to your liking, but so far we have not needed to do this.
YoPawn, we are happy to be able to get you the shock you wanted and completely understand why you like it so much. It is an excellent product.
My talking smack about the Elka is tongue in cheek. I don't think it is a bad shock at all. I prefaced in my first post that this shock was not for me, but could be for others. Then I go into why I don't like it. For me.
What a lot of people don't understand is that you can tune any shock to the end of time, but in the end, the inherent design of the shock will determine the feel you gain.
A twin tube design like the Double Barrel is vastly different than the monotube design of the other shocks. Even among monotube shocks, there can be big differences.
The ONE thing I feel the Double Barrel does that no monotube shock has before for me, is that it initiates damping instantly when the shock changes direction. There is no perceptible transition, where with other shocks there is a tiny bit of dead zone while the valves and oil change direction back the way they came.
If this thread proves anything, it is worth the money to demo a shock, even if it is high end and a lot of people like it. You can't always guarantee you'll like it. I don't think any amount of shimming the Elka would result in my ideal shock setup.
Edit: also take into account that the fork's damping can make a huge determination on your perception of the rear shock. If my fork felt the same as the elka then I think my opinion of it would be much higher. As of now, my fork feels almost identical to the double barrel (rebound wise, Elka felt similar compression wise), thus maybe one reason I am liking it so much more. It's like having the same length of travel, rate of spring, and damping hooked up front and rear.
Good point on matching the fork characteristics with the shock.
I'm thinking of going the Elka route with my Rune. I've ridden FM's Rune with Elks and love it (vs. my DHX Air). However, he run's a 36 Float and I run a 36 Talas and our dampening is set up completely different.
Probably shoud demo one first. But, will the demo be identical to the custom tuned version from Elka? Any difference?
Really? I completely disagree. I think you got a bunged shock, had a bad experience with it, and then got a shock that was not custom tuned for you.
This is from a guy who owned a CCDB and sold it for an elka. On a 3:1 progressive leverage ratio bike (something that should have been perfect for the ccdb).
But to each their own, I'm glad your double barrel is working out for you!
Wasn't your shock the old tune? I remember reading your posts on RM about yours last year.
I think the shock has been drastically changed since then.
Good point on matching the fork characteristics with the shock.
I'm thinking of going the Elka route with my Rune. I've ridden FM's Rune with Elks and love it (vs. my DHX Air). However, he run's a 36 Float and I run a 36 Talas and our dampening is set up completely different.
Probably shoud demo one first. But, will the demo be identical to the custom tuned version from Elka? Any difference?
Here's what I gather from Elka. They have a bunch of different "tunes" for compression and rebound, which are all presorted degrees of damping. I think they have 3 levels for rebound and 3 for compression. With those 6 and the range of adjustability in each, it covers every bike made just about.
That's why, as Scott said, my bike DID get the recommended tune from Elka. It felt like I could get the right range of adjustment. My only issue is with the performance of the rebound, not the adjustability.
The Elka does everything they claim. I can attest to that. I just don't like their suspension philosophy. To me, the DB feels less floaty and more connected. Quite the opposite of what other people claim. Elka never felt connected without also making it harsh.
Elka would always be an upgrade over a DHX air. Why not just borrow FM's shock? From his cold dead hands of course.
The Elka does everything they claim. I can attest to that. I just don't like their suspension philosophy. To me, the DB feels less floaty and more connected. Quite the opposite of what other people claim. Elka never felt connected without also making it harsh.
Still sounds to me like your Elka demo was just Eff'd up...
Originally Posted by Scott@GO-RIDE.com
To clear a couple of things up a bit:
1. When we received the demo shock back from YoPawn it definitely had some problems. It's off at Elka getting a full check over. It seemed to be to have a rebound issue as YoPawn notice.
I can see what you mean about the Elka feeling racy though. It's very efficient... doesn't like to use a lot of travel unless you hit something bigger, even if it's very active on the small stuff. I find this helps me ride "in control" since the shock isn't constantly spazzing out over every impact. Although other people might see that "spazzing out" as being "very active".
I do definitely like it better than the Avalanche Chubie I had on my previous ride. And again... no tools required for tuning!
Anyways... As Scott said there's a lot of personal preference involved. I think Elka summed up the feel of their shocks well in their documentation:
The overall feeling of the suspension that results is firm, nimble, stable and quick. The chassis tends to
maintain its ride height, use less travel, reduce unwanted suspension movement and weigth transfers does not affect
geometry as much. In short, the bike has a strong “platform” feeling throughout the entire travel, the shock reduces the
force transmitted to the rider and this general feeling can easily be adjusted in the parking lot via the low-speed
compression adjuster.
Still sounds to me like your Elka demo was just Eff'd up...
I can see what you mean about the Elka feeling racy though. It's very efficient... doesn't like to use a lot of travel unless you hit something bigger, even if it's very active on the small stuff. I find this helps me ride "in control" since the shock isn't constantly spazzing out over every impact. Although other people might see that "spazzing out" as being "very active".
I do definitely like it better than the Avalanche Chubie I had on my previous ride. And again... no tools required for tuning!
Anyways... As Scott said there's a lot of personal preference involved. I think Elka summed up the feel of their shocks well in their documentation:
Nope dude. I'm sorry I hurt your feeling by not liking this shock.
My second one was working as described to a freakin dot.
Let me condense WHY I did not like this shock for everyone's easy viewing.
1. I do not like the rear end of my bike always trying to stay high in the travel all the freakin time. Esp. when my fork is not set up to work this way. I equate it to putting air into a Marzocchi coil fork. Feels like junk to me, but others don't mind. Elka had an undeniable topout from the air spring. This is where I get the floaty feeling from..
2. Rebound is too fast on slow stuff and then jams on the brakes when it hits a higher speed or hits the topout hard. My feet were coming off the pedals all over the place. If my last bike was set up similar then I might not have noticed as much, but I am used to my feet sticking no matter how bad of a rider I am. When I get the low speed rebound to where I like it, the high speed is ruined.
3. Shock is noisy as hell compared to the DB when jumping.
Things that WOULD make me like this shock more:
1. If I was into jumping more than anything else. This thing has good pop.
2. If I was a racer who liked the racy feeling. I'm not the most skilled rider, I like a more controlled ride when sitting down. Elka likes standing up.
3. If my fork matched the spring characteristics of the Elka.
4. If it wasn't so noisy on the rebound.
It's obvious most people like the Elka. Good for them and Elka! Elka seems like a top quality company and puts out a nice product for the price. If there other people reading this thread I hope I can inform them a little more about how this shock rides differently than others and they might want to take this into consideration before blindly laying down money. Demo if you can!
Once again these are just my personal observations being compared to how I like my bikes set up. Thanks to FM for providing reasons and info as to WHY HE likes the shock. It makes it more helpful for people reading this to get an idea of what they want.
But I think yoiu should give it 1 more shot. I mean you've put this much effort into it, right?
Since I've already ridden on the Elka, my guess is that by dropping 50 pounds in the spring (FM's got about 15 pounds of baby phat on me) and by using titanium, it should feel pretty darn good.
sounds like Yopawn has made up his mind, just as I did when when I bought a ccdb, and found it to be a POS, IMO. Nope, I won't change my mind, no way, even if they did improve the shock, I'm not gonna budge, it's still a POS, and that's that.
[SIZE="1"]it's okay to read a little sarcasm into the above statement[/SIZE]
sounds like Yopawn has made up his mind, just as I did when when I bought a ccdb, and found it to be a POS, IMO. Nope, I won't change my mind, no way, even if they did improve the shock, I'm not gonna budge, it's still a POS, and that's that.
[SIZE="1"]it's okay to read a little sarcasm into the above statement[/SIZE]
If I went through the crap you went through. I would hate the DB too.
The whole point of posting this thread was to give people my perspective on the product, not to bag on Elka. If people leave feeling like they have a better idea of what they want, and it happens to be Elka, then that's good!
Let me first say that Elka is one amazing company in terms of customer relations and getting feedback. I got an email from them thanking me for my honest feedback and they totally understand that I was just not happy with the feel and not trying to dog on their product. Hopefully my feedback will help them offer tunes for people who want more standard trail bike feel and not a racer feel. I have never experienced such a clean attitude from any other manufacturer. They are not full of themselves, they just want to make shocks that everyone will want to buy.
HEY ELKA! You still have one more chance to sell me on one when my Highline needs upgrading. Hopefully a match made in heaven.
I don't feel like sifting back through the thread, but I recall you didn't like the rebound characteristics of the shock. What was it specifically that you didn't like?
My understanding is that on big compressions/hits the rebound slows down quite a bit but near the top of the stroke it's relatively fast - "progressive rebound" as Elka says on their site. Were you looking for the opposite?
I don't feel like sifting back through the thread, but I recall you didn't like the rebound characteristics of the shock. What was it specifically that you didn't like?
My understanding is that on big compressions/hits the rebound slows down quite a bit but near the top of the stroke it's relatively fast - "progressive rebound" as Elka says on their site. Were you looking for the opposite?
Yup it is VERY progressive at the higher end of the damping range.
I want either a more linear (CCDB) or slightly regressive rebound (PUSH). Just a tiny bit more low speed rebound and a tiny bit less high speed rebound.
Let's just say, Elka is working with me to get me back onto an Elka. Hopefully I can create a new thread...
Elka Stage 5 trail tune = me happier than a Canadian in maple syrup.
Let me also say that their customer service really has me sold. They truly want to find the right tune for my liking. And almost seem to take it to personal level of commitment.
Yup it is VERY progressive at the higher end of the damping range.
I want either a more linear (CCDB) or slightly regressive rebound (PUSH). Just a tiny bit more low speed rebound and a tiny bit less high speed rebound.
Let's just say, Elka is working with me to get me back onto an Elka. Hopefully I can create a new thread...
Elka Stage 5 trail tune = me happier than a Canadian in maple syrup.
Let me also say that their customer service really has me sold. They truly want to find the right tune for my liking. And almost seem to take it to personal level of commitment.
Gotcha, I guess you're looking for more chassis control from the rebound circuit then? You're on a reign, right? I guess a little more low speed rebound would counteract the anti-squat when pedalling and make a nice, stable bike. I know that my Banshee Rune doesn't require much LSC on the shock, but definitely benefitted when I got the ISX-6 custom tuned. It feels like the tuner did something similar to PUSH's rebound settings.
I have an Elka coming for my 2010 Stab Deluxe, so I'm really looking forward to how the shock will work on a big go-fast single pivot. The Van R that's on there now is lacking to say the least.
well, got my Elka and installed, set things in the middle-ish, and went for a ride. unfortunately the trails very wet and sloppy, so it's kinda hard to notice the nuances of suspension when you're thinking "don't eat sh!t and die on that root, that corner's full of mud, turn early, oh good more wet roots."
I was talking to Chris at Go Ride (after talking to Yann at Elka), and he suggested maybe running lighter compression settings. Rune Elkas use something like a 30/30 recipe, running a 20/30 recipe might be just the ticket.
I was talking to Chris at Go Ride (after talking to Yann at Elka), and he suggested maybe running lighter compression settings. Rune Elkas use something like a 30/30 recipe, running a 20/30 recipe might be just the ticket.
2010 Kona Stab.
I can see how the rebound as-is wouldn't be so hot on a trail bike. standing and mashing makes things move around a fair bit, particularly if there's some anti-squat inherent in the suspension design.
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Originally Posted by YoPawn
Got my CCDB!You would think this translates to a bike that can't be hopped around and jumped as easily. In fact, quite the contrary. My bike bunny hops easier than it ever did, but still has rebound damping in effect at all speeds. In fact it seems like damping is happening all the time and never stops.
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