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  1. #1
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    Banshee Legend MKII Built

    Finally got the Legend built last week. Had been waiting on a Cane Creek Angleset for a long time. It finally came in so Friday we threw it together. Have two rides in on it. The bike feels killer. This is Downhillnews official test mule. All parts we test will be placed on this bike. Also we will have a complete review of it down the road!

  2. #2
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    How you liking the Dorado? I love mine. Dont see many out there

  3. #3
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    What did you use the angle set for? The bike seems plenty slack as it is!

    Which reminds me: OT

    I know it's heresy but most modern DH bikes are too slack and long for most of my local tracks (ie: I don't live in Champerey). Has anyone tried make a good DH bike steeper? BB height will rise but they are already so low and a bike like the Legend rides on quite a bit of sag. Did you steepen yours Ian?
    About buying a bike:
    Quote Originally Posted by No MSG
    It's like finding a wife. Personality is important, but you gotta look at that face every morning.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikocycles
    How you liking the Dorado? I love mine. Dont see many out there

    Its funny the like 5 testers we use on the bikes all want one after riding it. I know 1-2 of them are now saving up for em. It is pretty killer. Handles high speed chatter like nobodys business.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarashi
    What did you use the angle set for? The bike seems plenty slack as it is!

    Which reminds me: OT

    I know it's heresy but most modern DH bikes are too slack and long for most of my local tracks (ie: I don't live in Champerey). Has anyone tried make a good DH bike steeper? BB height will rise but they are already so low and a bike like the Legend rides on quite a bit of sag. Did you steepen yours Ian?

    That is one of the reasons we got the Angleset so we could make it a little steeper if needed. I used the .5 slacker cup on the top. So the bike supposedly now sits with a 63.3 degree head angle. We will run it like this for awhile and then go the other way. After that has been in for a bit we will switch to slacker cups again!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianjenn
    Its funny the like 5 testers we use on the bikes all want one after riding it. I know 1-2 of them are now saving up for em. It is pretty killer. Handles high speed chatter like nobodys business.
    I agree. I will be getting another one for my new build. The other I have is the 29er version. Great fork

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarashi
    What did you use the angle set for? The bike seems plenty slack as it is!

    Which reminds me: OT

    I know it's heresy but most modern DH bikes are too slack and long for most of my local tracks (ie: I don't live in Champerey). Has anyone tried make a good DH bike steeper? BB height will rise but they are already so low and a bike like the Legend rides on quite a bit of sag. Did you steepen yours Ian?

    BB height will drop if you steepen the HA (visualize putting a shorter fork on).

    But w/ angle set BB height remains the same no matter what you do to HA. That is the beauty of this product.

    63.3 degrees! Has that trail of rock you love to test on gotten steeper?

  8. #8
    Takw/agranofsalt
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    Dang! Looks sweet with the 'rado on there!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    BB height will drop if you steepen the HA (visualize putting a shorter fork on).

    But w/ angle set BB height remains the same no matter what you do to HA. That is the beauty of this product.
    Every part of these statements are wrong...

    Yeah if you put a shorter fork on it then it will lower the BB height but your not putting a lower fork on it. you are using the same fork and steepening it with the cups. It will raise the BB height. If you don't believe me look at any geometry adjustable frame. There is a steeper/higher setting and a lower/slacker setting.

    The anglesets can't defy this. if you slacken a bike with the same fork on it then it will lower the bb height. likewise if you steepen the bike with the same fork on it will raise the BB height.

    Typically this is the main reason people are using anglesets. They want the newer style geometry with the lower BB height and slacker HA.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    Every part of these statements are wrong...

    Yeah if you put a shorter fork on it then it will lower the BB height but your not putting a lower fork on it. you are using the same fork and steepening it with the cups. It will raise the BB height. If you don't believe me look at any geometry adjustable frame. There is a steeper/higher setting and a lower/slacker setting.

    The anglesets can't defy this. if you slacken a bike with the same fork on it then it will lower the bb height. likewise if you steepen the bike with the same fork on it will raise the BB height.Typically this is the main reason people are using anglesets. They want the newer style geometry with the lower BB height and slacker HA.
    The cool thing about the Cane Creek angle set is that it does defy this. That is why it is such a big deal. They change the angle of the fork inside the head tube. It is equivalent to hacking off the head tube, changing the angle that it sits relative to the frame, and welding it back on. You don't raise or lower the fork and therefore don't raise or lower the BB or alter other frame geos. You are just pivoting the fork in the head tube.

    Check it out

    Adjustable frame geo through different shock or linkage mounts is a whole different concept.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    The cool thing about the Cane Creek angle set is that it does defy this. That is why it is such a big deal. They change the angle of the fork inside the head tube. It is equivalent to hacking off the head tube, changing the angle that it sits relative to the frame, and welding it back on. You don't raise or lower the fork and therefore don't raise or lower the BB or alter other frame geos. You are just pivoting the fork in the head tube.

    Check it out

    Adjustable frame geo through different shock or linkage mounts is a whole different concept.
    No i fully understand how a cane creek anglset works. It changes the headtube angle... pretty simple ideal. Of course it angles the fork through the head tube. K9 and a few other companies came up with this idea a couple of years ago. its not a new idea (the angling part atleast, the grommets are a new/cool idea though)

    You are missing a very important point though. If the HA changes then it will place the fork further out in front of you (in more of an angle). Since changing the head angle is in degrees its safe to assume the fork will move in a circular motion as it gets steepened or slackened, Therefore if it moves forward (slackened) it will also move upwards. So the slacker the bike gets the lower the bb gets.

    Now once you do this not only will the HA change but so will the Seat angle. The slacker the HA gets the steeper the SA gets.

    Just think about it for a little bit. If you are still stumped after a while then get a piece of string that is about as long as a fork. attach it to a stationary point where it touches the ground at about 60-70 degrees. after that move it a few degrees in the slacker direction. It won't stay on the ground as you move it. the end of the string has to lift up as you slacken it more and more. This is the same thing that happens to your bike so as the fork goes slacker, the BB drops more and more.

    And then for back up from the place you tried to reference (this is the k9 cups review which does the exact same thing)
    http://www.sicklines.com/2009/09/14/...dset-cups-arc/

  12. #12
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    For the record, Bubba is correct!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coiler-d
    For the record, Bubba is correct!
    Thank you!!

    And now so its not a total derailment...

    The Legend looks very sick. I would love to give one a try sometime. I have ridden a few banshee's and they all seem amazing. The legend, Jedi, and Podium are my favorite DH bikes out right now and i'd probably have a really hard time deciding between them if i ever build up another DH bike.

    Looking forward to some in depth ride reports

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by coiler-d
    For the record, Bubba is correct!

    For the record, geometry is hard.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    No i fully understand how a cane creek anglset works. It changes the headtube angle... pretty simple ideal. Of course it angles the fork through the head tube. K9 and a few other companies came up with this idea a couple of years ago. its not a new idea (the angling part atleast, the grommets are a new/cool idea though)

    You are missing a very important point though. If the HA changes then it will place the fork further out in front of you (in more of an angle). Since changing the head angle is in degrees its safe to assume the fork will move in a circular motion as it gets steepened or slackened, Therefore if it moves forward (slackened) it will also move upwards. So the slacker the bike gets the lower the bb gets.

    Now once you do this not only will the HA change but so will the Seat angle. The slacker the HA gets the steeper the SA gets.

    Just think about it for a little bit. If you are still stumped after a while then get a piece of string that is about as long as a fork. attach it to a stationary point where it touches the ground at about 60-70 degrees. after that move it a few degrees in the slacker direction. It won't stay on the ground as you move it. the end of the string has to lift up as you slacken it more and more. This is the same thing that happens to your bike so as the fork goes slacker, the BB drops more and more.

    And then for back up from the place you tried to reference (this is the k9 cups review which does the exact same thing)
    http://www.sicklines.com/2009/09/14/...dset-cups-arc/

    Yeah, you're right. I was thinking about it last night while railing tacky DH trails in the dark. Tried to do some trig in my head and almost augered.

    Did some trig this morning based on Fox 180 axle to crown length and 64 degree HA. Changing the HA to 62.5 degress will effectively lower the front end by about 6.5mm, which would lower the BB by less than 2mm on my bike (Enduro).

    So yes, you are correct, but it is a pretty minimal change in BB height for 1.5 degree change in HA.

  16. #16
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    looks like its already been covered, but yah, bubba is 100% right.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    BB height will drop if you steepen the HA (visualize putting a shorter fork on).

    But w/ angle set BB height remains the same no matter what you do to HA. That is the beauty of this product.

    63.3 degrees! Has that trail of rock you love to test on gotten steeper?
    Not sure it has gotten steeper or not. But the bike feels good anyway! Not to slack just about right....

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